718 Cayman GT4 was a bit underwhelming - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I have a 981 GT4 that admittedly doesn’t get anywhere close to enough use and a 718 Cayman 2.5 GTS. The 718 is an excellent all rounder, it does everything well and is probably quicker than the GT4 in most scenarios. I’ve never felt the need to upgrade to a 718 GT4. I think with a good remap and possibly a cat back exhaust the GTS is all the car I’ll ever need unless a GT4RS becomes available and being honest the only way I’m likely to get one of them is if it ends up on Copart. And yet I will likely buy a McLaren before summer.

No real surprise here. The PPF equipped cars do sound really crap compared to no PPF cars. The overwhelming sound in a GT4 is belt noise and intake noise. I have these 3 in the fleet at the moment and it’s a very interesting comparison. Quickest and most lairy the M2C. Best chassis the GT4 Nicest car the R. The R has the best engine noise and the nicest steering. Not as quick as the other 2 but so nice to drive. The R is a massively underrated car.

Does 987.1 Cayman S close to Cayman R in terms of engine sound and steering feel. I know of the bore -scoring issue.

Well I test drove a 718 Cayman GT4 PDK today with bucket seat, leather interior and LED PDLS, carrera white with reverse parking camera and folding mirrors and about 4000 miles on the odometer When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring. When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before) The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation) Edited by LamedonM on Saturday 14th January 21:22

LamedonM said: Does 987.1 Cayman S close to Cayman R in terms of engine sound and steering feel. I know of the bore -scoring issue. Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S. Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30

bigmowley said: Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S. Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30 I was under the impression the R exhaust was a bigger bore diameter on standard and PSE.

Marc_Hill said: bigmowley said: Yes close but not the same. Assuming the R has PSE then the R will sound better, deeper and slightly louder. (R has a bigger bore exhaust in PSE spec). Assuming both cars are set up properly there will not be much in it for steering feel. The R has a few more years of Porsche subtle tweaks from a 987.1 S. Edited by bigmowley on Saturday 14th January 21:30 I was under the impression the R exhaust was a bigger bore diameter on standard and PSE. You may well be right. I am definitely not an expert

So speaking as a current 718 GT4 driver and formerly 981 GT4, I can understand OP impressions from the quick road test. 718 GT4 is pretty polished/refined and well behaved on the road and so if you aren’t in an environment to really drive it dynamically (not the same as fast!) then you aren’t going to get much back from it and it’s just going to look back at you as just rather inadequate, lol. 981 GT4 gives up some of its goods sooner, as it is more rough and ready out of the box, with its characteristics and foibles on display and it sounds fantastic and fruity from the off. Edited by TDT on Saturday 14th January 23:21

718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled)

Flat 6 noise? See below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDVBtyRNNgQ

n12maser said: 718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled) So for the famed flat 6 engine sound, go GT3

LamedonM said: the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring. I don't think it does explain that. So many other variables, particularly at the Ring. Drivers' experience, skills, attitude to risk, tyres etc etc are far far more prevalent than a little difference in straight line performance, if any in this case.

I bought a 718 GT4 for the handling characteristics and naturally aspirated engine throttle response, plus a manual 'box for interaction. Being the fastest out there isn't what the car, or I, am about. It sounds like you prefer turbo power characteristics and/or outright speed? The GT4 isn't really going to cut it if so.

LamedonM said: n12maser said: 718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled) So for the famed flat 6 engine sound, go GT3 Not necessarilly. Really depends what sort of flat 6 sound you like. Induction noise or external exhaust. 991.2 GT3 has way more induction noise across the rev range inside the cabin than the 991.1. Neither have a particularly iconic Porsche external exhaust noise if thats what you want. Same with the gpf 718 GT4 great induction noise but stock exhaust external noise is nothing special. 981 GT4 sounds good and authentic sound overall despite its Carrera S engine both internal and external and sounds better imo than the 981 Spyder which in sport plus mode at least makes the external exhaust over farty imo but some like this.

I'm not convinced re. exhaust changes for model years. Changing the parts would mean having to get the car re-certified for emissions and noise would it not? Can't see that happening.

n12maser said: 718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled) You forgot to add 996.1 Manthey 987.1 Cayman S also has a great combination of induction and exhaust sound...the induction part was lost in the 987.2 DFI's Edited by Andyoz on Sunday 15th January 16:44

LamedonM said: Well I test drove a 718 Cayman GT4 PDK today with bucket seat, leather interior and LED PDLS, carrera white with reverse parking camera and folding mirrors and about 4000 miles on the odometer When the engine was warm enough, I drove in manual and redlined several times. Well I was underwhelmed, the famed screaming flat 6 engine did not blow me away, though was more high pitched and probably more pleasant than my Cayman S 2.5L engine, somehow it makes me appreciates the 2.5L sound more (as just different but has its own character) the GT4 felt slower in straight line which would explain a YouTube video that showed a Cayman 718 GTS 2.5L driver catching and passing a Cayman 718 GT4 on Nurburgring. When the PASM is in Sport it felt as if the GT4 is less harsh than my Cayman S and the GT4 dealt with the bump well (both are 20mm lowered) The exhaust note of the PSE is not louder than my Cayman S PSE (pre OPF). The turn in of the GT4 is probably better The exterior look: side ways (with Cayman S Spoiler up), I would say = draws, rear view GT4 looks better and front view GT4 looks far better In summary as a current owner of a very well optioned pre OPF 718 Cayman S (with PSE, PTV, PASM 20mm lowered sport Chrono, PDLS, heated and ventilated seat and automatic climate control, 2 tone leather, Miami blue), I did not get blown away by Porsche 718 GT4, the famed flat 6 sound did not live up to the hype (I had never driven a flat 6 before) The experience is even making me consolidate the feeling, I should hold on to my unicorn Cayman S and try add 991 GT3 to the stable when finances allowed. I am yet to test drive 981 GT4 or Cayman R (the OPC buggers sold the car to somebody else despite being the first person to show interest and they promising me to call me when the car was out of preparation) Edited by LamedonM on Saturday 14th January 21:22 My 2p FWIW... Just arrived home with the missus from a day out in my mine (same as you test drove i.e, PDK, Buckets, Extended leather, PDLS+ etc, but a '22 build (see below)), 250 miles blasting across West/East Sussex A/B roads, down to the coast for a coffee, before heading back up & across the long way home! I can't share your feelings I'm afraid... I've come back with the smile firmly planted on my face with a reminder how great the car is, after it's been laid up over the Xmas period. Not sure if you're aware but unofficially there are 2x OPF arrangements on the 718 GT4. Was the car you drove a 2019/2020/202 build? They made changes to the OPF arrangement at the end of 21, so cars built in 22 onwards sound much louder/raspier. Sure not as loud as a 981GT4 but much louder than the previous 19/20/21 GT4s. Rumour has it they took their GPF learnings from the 992 GT3 and implemented to the 4. There's loads of vids on YouTube with people comparing, and although Porsche have not officially confirmed, the difference is very noticeable. The cabin noise up in the revs is lovely and you can hear/feel the noise off the flat 6 but more of an induction feel than exhaus), especially in PDK sport mode (see below) which means it's always 'on'. I'm assuming you pressed and had the exhaust button 'on' as well? I leave my PASM in normal, and apart from very bumpy/pothole surfaces it rides perfectly. 'Sport' PASM mode is way too harsh for British A/B roads it unsettles the car, which is why Porsche say it's recommended for Track use only. The balance, handling and steering wheel feedback is sublime, and really what makes the car. If you want outright speed this isn't the car for you (but its' hardly slow!), but if you want turn-in feedback and handling you will struggle to find better. The buckets give it an extra element of feedback through your arse in the twists, inspiring more confidence for you to push on. The important button in a PDK, is the 'PDK Sport' button, this totally changes the behaviour of the engine/car, and there is no way on earth the car can be considered slow with that mode on. Whatever gear you are in, you can nail it and it takes off with a jolt and urgency. On the way back I had a safe & respectful 'play' with a 987.2 S who really struggled to keep up with me as we blasted through the twisties, up & over the gradients of Devil's Dyke. It sounds as if you possibly had the car in the wrong modes, and didn't have enough time to explore it properly. Against a 2.5, I'm sorry but there's really no competition, not unless you are actually benchmarking using Carwow drag videos, which IMO are totally not what these cars are about. As we hit Brighton to grab a coffee to take the seafront for a break before heading back, on the high-street the car turned heads with plenty of thumbs up from dads and kids alike. But that might be because it's green! I didn't have one negative experience which surprised me given Brighton is very 'left' and anti-car. It'll never have the same character as a GT3, but that's good for me, it's different from a 3 as an all round package to give smiles per mile and to feel special, IMO I don't think there is a better car for the money. Gratuitous coffee-break pics as we waited for the shower to pass... Edited by kmpowell on Sunday 15th January 17:09

Twinfan said: I'm not convinced re. exhaust changes for model years. Changing the parts would mean having to get the car re-certified for emissions and noise would it not? Can't see that happening. I’m not sure when the PDK became available but I’m sure Porsche would have recert’d the manual at the same time therefore could have done the exhaust change then? Who knows?

GT3s tend to get louder with the miles certainly mine is whether this is part psychlogical with more revs etc I don't know. Maybe GT4s are similar but haven't noticed much difference with mine. Just a thought.

av185 said: LamedonM said: n12maser said: 718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled) So for the famed flat 6 engine sound, go GT3 Not necessarilly. Really depends what sort of flat 6 sound you like. Induction noise or external exhaust. 991.2 GT3 has way more induction noise across the rev range inside the cabin than the 991.1. Neither have a particularly iconic Porsche external exhaust noise if thats what you want. Same with the gpf 718 GT4 great induction noise but stock exhaust external noise is nothing special. 981 GT4 sounds good and authentic sound overall despite its Carrera S engine both internal and external and sounds better imo than the 981 Spyder which in sport plus mode at least makes the external exhaust over farty imo but some like this. Wow, your knowledge of Porsches is very good. 991.2 GT3 is much more expensive than 991.1. I have read that 991.1 GT3 engines were catching fire and the 10 year warranty from Porsche is coming to an end, maybe that is why they are cheaper I am probably more after induction noise than exhaust sounds. So 981 GT4 should be considered Would you say 991 and 997 GT3 sounds as good as the early naturally aspirated Audi R8 V10. All websites always list them as having great engine sounds. Thanks All

FTW said: I’m not sure when the PDK became available but I’m sure Porsche would have recert’d the manual at the same time therefore could have done the exhaust change then? Who knows? I think this is correct. As there is definitely a change in the later MY cars - coincidence with PDK introduction would make sense for a bunch of changes like this, because they changed how the exhaust is mounted at this same time also. The change is not massive - but is apparent if you know what these cars sound like... its not life changing and not anywhere near former glory of cars that are pre-opf or have twin central exit, but might sounds better to some ears - if just loudness = better lol. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 17:42

They changed the exhaust mounting prior to PDK introduction, that was done around March 2020. PDK arrived in September 2020. Good point about the re-cert alongside PDK, I guess that's possible. If only the parts PDF was available to check!

This is a short video clip of the M&M exhaust on my tuned 981 GT4 down the pit straight at Donington .. https://youtu.be/d3j8oUPpdAk (If I've uploaded it correctly )

TDT said: I think this is correct. As there is definitely a change in the later MY cars - coincidence with PDK introduction would make sense for a bunch of changes like this, because they changed how the exhaust is mounted at this same time also. The change is not massive - but is apparent if you know what these cars sound like... its not life changing and not anywhere near former glory of cars that are pre-opf or have twin central exit. The exhaust mounting change was introduced from April 2020 build onwards. The Model year 2021 have all got the revised exhaust mountings but not sure if the revised GPFs were introduced at he same time or later in 2021/22.

Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars?

LamedonM said: Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars? Better is in the ear of the hearer.

LamedonM said: Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars? No, the opposite

LamedonM said: Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars? No. Revised GPF arrangements are unofficially fitted to 2022 and onward built cars, both manual and PDK.

A 718 GT4 underwhelming, never thought I would see that headline.

ChrisW. said: This is a short video clip of the M&M exhaust on my tuned 981 GT4 down the pit straight at Donington .. https://youtu.be/d3j8oUPpdAk (If I've uploaded it correctly ) If we’re doing 981 comparisons…. 981 GT4 with M&M in front, 718 GT4 (20-plate) following. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 18:19

LamedonM said: av185 said: LamedonM said: n12maser said: 718 GT4 is not a good representation at all of the 'famed flat 6' Try: - 997 GT3 - 991 GT3 (either generation) - any pre-1998 911 (i.e. air-cooled) So for the famed flat 6 engine sound, go GT3 Not necessarilly. Really depends what sort of flat 6 sound you like. Induction noise or external exhaust. 991.2 GT3 has way more induction noise across the rev range inside the cabin than the 991.1. Neither have a particularly iconic Porsche external exhaust noise if thats what you want. Same with the gpf 718 GT4 great induction noise but stock exhaust external noise is nothing special. 981 GT4 sounds good and authentic sound overall despite its Carrera S engine both internal and external and sounds better imo than the 981 Spyder which in sport plus mode at least makes the external exhaust over farty imo but some like this. Wow, your knowledge of Porsches is very good. 991.2 GT3 is much more expensive than 991.1. I have read that 991.1 GT3 engines were catching fire and the 10 year warranty from Porsche is coming to an end, maybe that is why they are cheaper I am probably more after induction noise than exhaust sounds. So 981 GT4 should be considered Would you say 991 and 997 GT3 sounds as good as the early naturally aspirated Audi R8 V10. All websites always list them as having great engine sounds. Thanks All Not really into Audis but the V10 is a great engine if rather heavy on fuel. Many fans view them as a cheap Lambo perhaps. The early fires which affected a couple of European 991.1 GT3s resulted in free engine upgrades much discussed on PH since 2013 if you care to search. Hasn't really affected prices much they are great cars and good ones esp those with the later revised refit engines sell well at very strong money. Bear in mind they are roughly twice the age of the more expensive newer 991.2 GT3 which has the far better engine even though the 991.1 is no slouch the torque and power drop off at higher revs approaching the red line is far more noticeable in the 991.1. Your best bet is to test drive the cars you are interested in then make an informed decision. Needless to say they are all great in their own way.

kmpowell said: LamedonM said: Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars? No. Revised GPF arrangements are unofficially fitted to 2022 and onward built cars, both manual and PDK. So, is there an era of 718 GT4 that sound better/bed

TDT said: ChrisW. said: This is a short video clip of the M&M exhaust on my tuned 981 GT4 down the pit straight at Donington .. https://youtu.be/d3j8oUPpdAk (If I've uploaded it correctly ) If we’re doing 981 comparisons…. 981 GT4 with M&M in front, 718 GT4 (20-plate) following. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 18:19 The 981 definitely sounds better Edited by LamedonM on Sunday 15th January 18:45

Taffy66 said: LamedonM said: Are we saying manual 718 GT4 pre- April 2020 sound better than later cars? No, the opposite So, 718 GT4 cars from April 2020 and more so from 2021 should sound better

Think you need to define what is better, to you... Loudness or tone - or both - and then do you want the sound at low or high revs - are you drone sensitive. etc etc. Such a subjective matter - and then at the end of the day - what is the aim? Loud exhausts mean getting all the looks - wanted and unwanted - maybe discomfort on a cruise and then restrictions on track days. Maybe you'd need to go aftermarket, but that is then a can of worms - pricing, performance claims, drone-no drone etc. Of all i've heard, my personal favourite is this sound... its clean and not too crazy, its a GT sound. My 981 had a nice sounding exhaust beyond the OEM configuration like Chris' - but then it meant that I could only do loud track days - and i couldn't fly under the radar on the road. No such issues with the 718 and it still makes a good enough noise for me when i'm on it but I do miss the 981 howl at the top end a little bit sometimes. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 18:52

RS Guy said: A 718 GT4 underwhelming, never thought I would see that headline. I understand the headline is a bit provocative to generate a discussion. Notwithstanding, a bit underwhelming for me, from a test drive, from point of view of jumping from 718 Cayman S daily to 718 GT4 for weekends.

TDT said: Think you need to define what is better, to you... Loudness or tone - or both - and then do you want the sound at low or high revs - are you drone sensitive. etc etc. Such a subjective matter - and then at the end of the day - what is the aim? Loud exhausts mean getting all the looks - wanted and unwanted - maybe discomfort on a cruise and then restrictions on track days. Maybe you'd need to go aftermarket, but that is then a can of worms - pricing, performance claims, drone-no drone etc. Of all i've heard, my personal favourite is this sound... its clean and not too crazy, its a GT sound. My 981 had a nice sounding exhaust beyond the OEM configuration like Chris' - but then it meant that I could only do loud track days - and i couldn't fly under the radar on the road. No such issues with the 718 and it still makes a good enough noise for me when i'm on it but I do miss the 981 howl at the top end a little bit sometimes. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 18:52 Did I mention that my M&M exhaust tests 3db down on standard and is supposed to be worth an extra 10bhp ? ... it's a wider bore than standard with no valves .... live re-mapped.

Adding some further 981 GT4 noise.....loud from some distance! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uupOEsGAGhA

Snowy999 said: Adding some further 981 GT4 noise.....loud from some distance! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uupOEsGAGhA Add the details Mr Snow….

ChrisW. said: Did I mention that my M&M exhaust tests 3db down on standard and is supposed to be worth an extra 10bhp ? ... it's a wider bore than standard with no valves .... live re-mapped. I had the same rear section, Jens’ quiet version with no valves. With the slash cut tips I tested 101 static at RS day last year I think, lol. I never got it tested with the little turn down tips, but even if they cut off 3db with a nice test operator, it was always gonna be marginal for a quiet day… and I don’t want to have to run around a half or 3/4 throttle all day… hard enough with a std 981 GT4. Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 20:30

ChrisW. said: Did I mention that my M&M exhaust tests 3db down on standard and is supposed to be worth an extra 10bhp ? ... it's a wider bore than standard with no valves .... live re-mapped. Whats the point of caring how it sounds outside. These videos should record what it is like from inside the cabin. Of the videos where it features the inside sonics the exhaust mod has made naff all change. I can hazard a guess that the majority of those that mod their exhaust they are underwhelmed by the change it actually makes to them vs spectators and they are too proud to own up that the exercise being a complete waste of money.

981 GT4 Dundon headers, catted over axle pipes into GT3 RS titanium rear box. No turn downs. i use JCR baffled turndowns at hill climbs to ensure that these historic venues are not shut by locals but never been told off at Spa or Silverstone. Not bothered with Brands....the Dundon kit adds about one million horse power with a tune or about 35hp like the quality others. Jens set up is excellent too. Unlike the MnM it has switchable valves which make no difference at all as far as I can tell......I love it!

I can say without hesitation that our 2.7 981 Cayman with PSE sounds much, much better than our 718 4.0 Boxster 25 with PSE. But that is the only thing it's better at

Your lap at Goodwood was quick! #respect

julian987R said: Whats the point of caring how it sounds outside. These videos should record what it is like from inside the cabin. Of the videos where it features the inside sonics the exhaust mod has made naff all change. Exhibit A - 981 GT4 Exhibit B - 718 GT4 Edited To Add : the exhaust change I made for the 981 was only as part of a powerkit, and to realise the full potential… the standard PSE is a choke point on Porsches both 981 and 718. It did make quite a change internally alongside the 718CS/991 GT intake… which is almost precursor to 4RS. Changing the sound was not a primary or even secondary objective, just a byproduct Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 21:11

julian987R said: ChrisW. said: Did I mention that my M&M exhaust tests 3db down on standard and is supposed to be worth an extra 10bhp ? ... it's a wider bore than standard with no valves .... live re-mapped. Whats the point of caring how it sounds outside. These videos should record what it is like from inside the cabin. Of the videos where it features the inside sonics the exhaust mod has made naff all change. I can hazard a guess that the majority of those that mod their exhaust they are underwhelmed by the change it actually makes to them vs spectators and they are too proud to own up that the exercise being a complete waste of money. 978R here is some sound.....my car is epic inside too. Have a listen from about 1:30. sorry for the start, its a night time hillclimb at Prescott I took for the family, a bit dull but if you watch it all you can hear car noises and me stress huffing before i start you at least know its an authentic inside sound source (my iphone). i think this sounds good. it also drones a bit between 2.5 and 3k but i dont care. sorry forgot to mention this is with the downturns and noise baffles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JiJDXEdNFs Edited by Snowy999 on Sunday 15th January 21:12

julian987R said: ChrisW. said: Did I mention that my M&M exhaust tests 3db down on standard and is supposed to be worth an extra 10bhp ? ... it's a wider bore than standard with no valves .... live re-mapped. Whats the point of caring how it sounds outside. These videos should record what it is like from inside the cabin. Of the videos where it features the inside sonics the exhaust mod has made naff all change. I can hazard a guess that the majority of those that mod their exhaust they are underwhelmed by the change it actually makes to them vs spectators and they are too proud to own up that the exercise being a complete waste of money. It matters to me. I want it quiet for trackdays. I want the most fulsome torque curve for trackdays. And it also sounds quite nice ... win, win, win ? I often listen to the radio inside ....

julian987R said: Whats the point of caring how it sounds outside. These videos should record what it is like from inside the cabin. Of the videos where it features the inside sonics the exhaust mod has made naff all change. I can hazard a guess that the majority of those that mod their exhaust they are underwhelmed by the change it actually makes to them vs spectators and they are too proud to own up that the exercise being a complete waste of money. Not quite true. On my modded 718 GT4 the exhaust note is more pleasing (as the banks now merge before exiting) and it's slightly louder at low revs. It does however boom/resonate under medium to hard acceleration between 2-3k revs. I prefer the car with the exhaust swap. It's a subtle-ish change but I am not underwhelmed (it was what I was expecting) and I find it gives it a touch more character. I don't consider it a complete waste of money although it is expensive for what it is - that's the Porsche world for you though.

Having spent a decent amount of time in a 718 S I don’t think it would see which way I’d went in the 718 GT4. Maybe it was broken. You do have to keep the revs high which is different than riding the torque of the turbo car, but as long as you do this it’s much faster. I’ve got the exhaust valve controller and BMC filters and it sounds every bit as good as my old air cooled 911s did. As mentioned by others some people just prefer the turbo delivery, maybe that’s your thing. Both good cars, but very different

Voodoo Blue said: I can say without hesitation that our 2.7 981 Cayman with PSE sounds much, much better than our 718 4.0 Boxster 25 with PSE. But that is the only thing it's better at some (many?) will argue that on the road it's all that matters

TDT said: Exhibit A - 981 GT4 Exhibit B - 718 GT4 Edited To Add : the exhaust change I made for the 981 was only as part of a powerkit, and to realise the full potential… the standard PSE is a choke point on Porsches both 981 and 718. It did make quite a change internally alongside the 718CS/991 GT intake… which is almost precursor to 4RS. Changing the sound was not a primary or even secondary objective, just a byproduct Edited by TDT on Sunday 15th January 21:11 981 one sounds much nicer, the downshifts are also much nicer. 718 sounds a bit agricultural compared, just not as sweet.

JayK12 said: 981 one sounds much nicer, the downshifts are also much nicer. 718 sounds a bit agricultural compared, just not as sweet. Yep it’s true but it’s not quite a fair comparison. I would like the 718 to be a bit more zippy and sweet like the 981 was at the end … not more power per se, just response… got a LWFW sat on the garage shelf.. lol.

Discombobulate said: Your lap at Goodwood was quick! #respect Cheers! More time to come, as still getting used to the new car, and the braking.

TDT said: … got a LWFW sat on the garage shelf.. lol. Love mine, done 10k+ miles with it now. Wouldn't swap back - love it to bits!

Twinfan said: TDT said: … got a LWFW sat on the garage shelf.. lol. Love mine, done 10k+ miles with it now. Wouldn't swap back - love it to bits! I was gonna ask you for a listen @ RS day actually.

TDT said: I was gonna ask you for a listen @ RS day actually. Sure, no problem! I'll be there spectating/pax riding but will be in Wolfgang

TDT said: JayK12 said: 981 one sounds much nicer, the downshifts are also much nicer. 718 sounds a bit agricultural compared, just not as sweet. Yep it’s true but it’s not quite a fair comparison. I would like the 718 to be a bit more zippy and sweet like the 981 was at the end … not more power per se, just response… got a LWFW sat on the garage shelf.. lol. Agreed, your 981 was very special though. How you finding the 718 as a comparison?

JayK12 said: Agreed, your 981 was very special though. How you finding the 718 as a comparison? Pretty strong, just needs little bit of sharpening based on my prior experiences, which I’ve already started to do. It’s a good step for me, as I continue to try to improve my driving. In some areas it’s better, in some others, it’s just different. But it rightly stopped me from taking the 981 too far, in which I thoroughly enjoyed 5years, + 36k mls, and 50+ trackdays. Edited by TDT on Monday 16th January 14:09

And it's interesting that at least partly because of being told by Leeds that I am not a good enough customer to be able to spec my own GT replacement with them in exchange for the existing 981 GT4, I am definitely taking mine as far as I can, being mindful of UK parts availability etc (so sticking at 3.8l). It will make a very interesting comparator to other GT4's ...

This is almost becoming Cayman engine sound porns. Could somebody please post the interior engine sound of Cayman R and GT3 on tracks please We need to complete this.

I agree that the steering feeling is a bit different between 981 and 718. I’m running the exact same upgraded hardware moved from 981 to 718 and some of the detail feel does seem to have been lost along the way IMO. Geo is the same… only things I can put it down to are: - lower unsprung mass due to PCCB on the 718. - original 4yr old tyres on my 718 - actual steering tuning is a bit different. Could be one or a combination of those things.. But there was enough difference to notice. In the 718 I have to send it with a bit more blind faith at this point. Once I’ve changed the tyres and spent a bit more time I can probably be a bit more definitive. Defo not alone in noticing…

TDT said: Standard 981 GT4 power delivery does start to drop off after somewhere between 6.5-6.8k rpm… even though redline is much later. (See dyno chart) ‘Powerkit’ comes from the ultimate incarnation of this engine found in the 991.1 911 GTS (x51 kit) and then largely used again in the 718 GT4 Clubsport race car (with a different intake). Replicating the exact 991.1 911 kit is very expensive, and you cannot buy the kit new now anyway. So there are a few ‘powerkit’ approaches, which are more cost effective and much easier to complete… which give slightly varying characters but ultimately yep, the various options aim to open up the breathing or keep the flow rates high as you get up in the revs. Intake side options boil down to: - IPD Plenum + 82mm throttle body (optionally + Intake Runners) - 718 CS intake Manifold + 82mm throttle body. Then on the exhaust side you can have sport headers with 200cell cats or race headers with no cats for track only. I had the 718 CS/991 GT intake manifold based solution on my car… as the name suggests it’s the full intake system from a GT3 that was used in the 718 GT4 Clubsport race car (which confusingly uses a 981 9A1 3.8 with x51 heads, cams and valvetrain). This intake can flow up to and beyond 500hp and is designed for facilitating airflow volume at high revs.. perfect for track!. As you can hopefully see in the videos, as the revs climb, the car gets increasingly faster pulling hard to the redline just short of 8k. Here is dyno chart comparing my 981 GT4 to a standard 981 GT4. Bold red(hp) and orange(tq) are my car You see we get more torque earlier… mainly due to headers and the tune… smoother delivery throughout and then when we get to 6.5k, the standard car drops off hard, but the additional intake capacity of my powerkitted car kicks in and it takes off, maintaining its torque as revs rise only really dipping after about 7100, by which time the standard car has already given up. You can see the shape of the power curves are different now also and is actually now just like the 718 Clubsport race car, the 991.1 911 GTS and also the 718 GT4 (4.0) My 981… 718 Clubsport race car (9A1) and 718 GT4 (9A2EVO) The other solutions have different power profiles e.g. Trading some high rev power for more mid range torque. Can explain more if you have more questions… but hope that helps. Edited by TDT on Saturday 21st January 22:30 Interesting that both our 981GT4s were fettled at the same place but mine has a higher rev limit of 8050 and slightly higher power figure. It's a massive improvement over the standard car where it wasn't worth going much past 6500 revs, it now pulls hard all the way to very close to the red line.

Very interesting D ... do you also have the wider (quieter?) M&M exhaust ? Was the same dyno used ? As you say, it is a massive improvement over standard and only Porsche know why they left the standard 981 GT4 so "hobbled" ... Can you imagine how little extra it would have cost Porsche to offer more geo options and a better tune from new ?

ChrisW. said: Very interesting D ... do you also have the wider (quieter?) M&M exhaust ? Was the same dyno used ? As you say, it is a massive improvement over standard and only Porsche know why they left the standard 981 GT4 so "hobbled" ... Can you imagine how little extra it would have cost Porsche to offer more geo options and a better tune from new ? Hi Chris, yes, same dyno I believe for T's and mine which has a custom exhaust and is significantly louder than the standard GT4, it just sounds 'angry' all of the time which may be a problem on track for noise. As for Porsche doing a better job at the launch I fear it would have stepped too close to the GT3 toes to get board approval as we all know how much profit Porsche make on a 911 compared with a Boxster or Cayman.

BubblesNW said: ChrisW. said: BubblesNW said: Interesting that both our 981GT4s were fettled at the same place but mine has a higher rev limit of 8050 and slightly higher power figure. Was the same dyno used ? Hi Chris, yes, same dyno I believe for T's and mine Same dyno for the initial build yes - but I subsequently had a revision done at Ehresmann to ensure safety and incorporate some other hardware updates. So the charts I've posted are from my car ON the MTO Engineering MAHA dyno. Just to add, D also has LWFW and liberal use of Octanium lol. ChrisW. said: BubblesNW said: I have a custom exhaust and is significantly louder than the standard GT4, it just sounds 'angry' all of the time which may be a problem on track for noise. Very interesting D ... do you also have the wider (quieter?) M&M exhaust ? I changed the rear section of the exhaust from the standard PSE rear section, which D still has, to the Quiet M&M rear section so that breathing was opened up further and also so that I could fit different types of tips for silencing options, as I quickly realised PSE was going to cause me noise issues with the new set up. Combined with the custom race style headers and catted OAPs - It made a really unique sound on my car. Edited by TDT on Monday 23 January 17:09

Very interesting read the last few of pages about gearing / power / torque etc, especially when I own a 996 GT3 with Cup final drive. Love all the info and learning about people’s experiences.

BrotherMouzone said: Very interesting read the last few of pages about gearing / power / torque etc, especially when I own a 996 GT3 with Cup final drive. Love all the info and learning about people’s experiences. How do you find it in your car? - did you drive it before in OEM state?

TDT said: BubblesNW said: ChrisW. said: BubblesNW said: Interesting that both our 981GT4s were fettled at the same place but mine has a higher rev limit of 8050 and slightly higher power figure. Was the same dyno used ? Hi Chris, yes, same dyno I believe for T's and mine Same dyno for the initial build yes - but I subsequently had a revision done at Ehresmann to ensure safety and incorporate some other hardware updates. So the charts I've posted are from my car ON the MTO Engineering MAHA dyno. Just to add, D also has LWFW and liberal use of Octanium lol. ChrisW. said: BubblesNW said: I have a custom exhaust and is significantly louder than the standard GT4, it just sounds 'angry' all of the time which may be a problem on track for noise. Very interesting D ... do you also have the wider (quieter?) M&M exhaust ? I changed the rear section of the exhaust from the standard PSE rear section, which D still has, to the Quiet M&M rear section so that breathing was opened up further and also so that I could fit different types of tips for silencing options, as I quickly realised PSE was going to cause me noise issues with the new set up. Combined with the custom race style headers and catted OAPs - It made a really unique sound on my car. Edited by TDT on Monday 23 January 17:09 Very interesting ... all good stuff. It appears that in general my exhaust is around 3db quieter than standard, but it is wonderfully "race car" soundtrack ... no noise problems so far !!

Daily driver? You bet! My 996 GT3.2 and 997 GT3.1 were daily drivers. The 981 GT4 now takes their place. I can no longer leap into the buckets, like a Le Mans pilot taking the wheel, but once I’m in…it’s pure heaven. Mileage…..180K in the 996, 150K in the 997…..let’s just say, the numbers are rising in the 981! Oh, and apparently I should have drawn my OAP 7 years ago👍

TDT said: How do you find it in your car? - did you drive it before in OEM state? Yes I had with OEM gearing for three years before having the mods done in autumn 2021. Basically the gearbox of my car had developed a fault with its fifth gear, so I thought about what else could be done whilst the gearbox and the engine were out. I wasn’t sure whether to go for Cup Final Drive at first; my main concern was whether the gearing would be too short for road use, so I contacted another member at 911uk, whose car had had it done, and he took me out for an hour drive in various conditions (motorway, B-road, town etc). There was no issue with his car’s road manner, and his car’s 30-110 was a lot more explosive than mine thanks to the gearing (not that it was really lacking in standard form). In the end I was convinced. I then contacted Mike at Sports and Classic (who carried out all the work), in the end my car ended up with: Cup Final Drive 996 turbo 6th gear (for touring, range) Single mass flywheel (964RS) 997 RS 4.0 clutch plus other preventative measures for the engine such as pinned coolant hoses etc With the longer 6th gear, the car would happily cruise at 70 mph @2900 rpm (only 100 increase compared to OEM), whilst with a touring range of 420+ miles. (Without the 6th gear mod it would have been 4000rpm at 70mph which was too high for me for touring). 5th to 6th is still ‘on cam’ (5800/5900rpm from 5th to 6th) but of course once in sixth gear, the acceleration rate is now back to similar to standard box. I don’t drive at fast circuits often enough to rev out 5th / 6th (Only been to Anglesey and Oulton since the mod); my Ring trip last autumn was the first time that the engine was revved out in 5th/6th since the modification and I saw 300kph on autobahn. Must say I am not a quick track driver but for me the car is now even more fun on road and track.

TDT said: If the weather is good for RS day… it’s gonna be very interesting out there, as a season opener for a few of us. Looking forward to it

Me too, will be the first day out in the GT4 - arrived on PS4S as PO didn't intend to track it, can't decide whether to leave these on for the RS day or swap out for Cup2s......weather can be a lottery in early March!

asbi said: Me too, will be the first day out in the GT4 - arrived on PS4S as PO didn't intend to track it, can't decide whether to leave these on for the RS day or swap out for Cup2s......weather can be a lottery in early March! Mine is also on MP4Ss but can use a spare set of Dunlops if needed . Will wait until a few days before to decide which tyres.

asbi said: Me too, will be the first day out in the GT4 - arrived on PS4S as PO didn't intend to track it, can't decide whether to leave these on for the RS day or swap out for Cup2s......weather can be a lottery in early March! Kev, you might remember that when we were at Donington last year, a chap that had PS4S on his spyder absolutely mullered them by taking it on track. Granted it was a little warmer at the time but it was clear that they couldn't take the abuse that tracking a GT4/Spyder throws at them when it's dry.

asbi said: Me too, will be the first day out in the GT4 - arrived on PS4S as PO didn't intend to track it, can't decide whether to leave these on for the RS day or swap out for Cup2s......weather can be a lottery in early March! If its your first time on track with the car and at Oulton, I'd stay on the PS4s. Oulton that time of year is more likely to be cold or damp, Cups can take a lap or two to get up to temp and grip even in the dry. where the PS4s can switch on faster and grip in half a lap.in the dry the cups are only around 2 seconds a lap faster. No pot's on the RS day! If you stay on the PS4's tyres, just limit your lapping to 3-4 fast laps and they shouldn't melt. now if it lashing down you'll have a empty track The laps on cups will be in the cafe!

I would agree ... and trashing a set of PS4S's in a day sounds a little indulgent But I also will look at the weather forecast ... it is only five weeks away ...

Well, I have collected the car: 2022 Carrera white Cayman 718 GT4 PDK with mixed leather, alcantra, carbon interior, Bose, bucket seats, folding mirrors and LED with PDLS.

Congrats, and hope that you can gel with it.

And black door handles! Looks fab, hope you really enjoy that one. Liam

Thank you. I am already gelling with it. I don’t see how I am going to part with this one.

Interesting turn around from the start of the thread then. What do you like?

TDT said: Interesting turn around from the start of the thread then. Indeed, quite the surprise when I opened this thread and saw the OP had bought the car! OP, what swayed you to purchase in the end, and what's made you think it's going to be a keeper?

Well, all the discussions here, test driving again, the age of the car (only 6 month old), the car options vs price. I have driven about 150 miles since picking it up yesterday and it is just different to 2.5L Cayman S PDK. The driving experience is just different to Cayman S, it is more assured in corners, less harsh with Sport PASM (yes I meant that), the engine sounds different and revs higher and overall the car feels more special driving it, downshifting in manual mode comes with a burp and thump in the back like BMW M car DCT, Cayman S does not do this, the steering feel is the same for both, I had no hip pain coming back with the GT4 compared to going on the 90 mile journey with Cayman S, when picking up the GT4, the bucket seat is far more comfortable than I anticipated and had no bak pain either. Surprisingly, the GT4 appears to have better fuel consumption on the motor way and when they are both driven in Sports mode. The GT4 now feels faster in straight line compared to the Cayman S, the GT4 behaves like turbo if driving in automatic with or without PDK sport but more so with PDK sport. It behaves like a naturally aspirated engine when driven in manual and really only comes alive when rev is about 4K and over. The noise and pulling to 8000rpm is quite an experience. When I test drove, the first time, I was mainly driving in manual It is a keeper because, I do not think I would like to part exchange it for something else apart from probably much more expensive newer GT3s. In order to acquire it, I have forgone my lovely 718 Cayman S. It was a difficult but a financially prudent decision. These are probably the last ICE cayman anyway. Also, because of my overall personal financial plan. The car is bloody good, it seems to give me everything BMW M6 and 718 Cayman S give combined. Though still driving carefully because of the weather and the tyres are Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2, exiting from corners is sharper and more precise than Cayman S Looking at the price of a well optioned 718 Cayman S and this GT4 (well optioned as well), I think the 718 CS are very good for their values. I would miss the exhaust bangs and pops of the Cayman S for giggles, the ventilated seat and heated steering wheel, the use of Sport button that gives amazing boost and acceleration in a straight line, the freedom to drive anywhere and at anytime. I consider 981 GT4, however because of injury to my left leg in the past and I may daily drive this some time and I want a newer car from the beginning to keep long term, I went the the PDK route. Also in this thread, it became clear that the pulling power of the 981 GT4 engine drops off towards 8000rpm and might need modifications to rectify, I do not modify drivetrains of my cars, thus I went for 4.0L of GT4. I do occasionally track, and I don’t want to be feeling I am missing out on something in the engine departments Overall, I am happy with my decision. Thanks everyone for your contributions to the thread.

Only imbeciles don't change their mind. Well done OP, looks like a great car. Good timing too I think. Enjoy. Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 29th January 12:27

Very good, sounds like the right move for you. Edited by TDT on Sunday 29th January 13:12

Quite a result, there are very few cars of this type that are better ... but nothing is forever Just have fun in the meantime ...

You are correct. I have always thought I would hold on to my cars for like 10 years, I have not been successful yet, I hope this is the one. Who knows I may win a lottery By the way, the auto start stop seems to be more active on this GT4 than my 2016 Cayman S?

LamedonM said: By the way, the auto start stop seems to be more active on this GT4 than my 2016 Cayman S? If you were on the original battery on the Cayman S it was perhaps a little tired and would fall less often within the range of conditions that triggers SS.

LamedonM said: You are correct. I have always thought I would hold on to my cars for like 10 years, I have not been successful yet, I hope this is the one. Who knows I may win a lottery By the way, the auto start stop seems to be more active on this GT4 than my 2016 Cayman S? Was that the Harrogate car? How was the customer service from the dealer?

Glad it's worked out for you, OP. I have no doubt you're going to gel and love the car the more time you spend in it. Like you, when I got mine I was dallying with the idea of a 992 GT3 in a few years time, but the more I drive the GT4 the less I think that will happen, if at all. I'm assuming it's is this one? https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca... Lovely spec car, it looks like a really nice one. The less said about that dealer the better though, hopefully you'll not have to take it back and/or use them again. My advice is to get friendly with your OPC, get it serviced there and have any warranty work done there. Show your OPC some love so you're covered for the future. Enjoy the car, keep us updated on how you progress with it.

ClubsportStr said: LamedonM said: You are correct. I have always thought I would hold on to my cars for like 10 years, I have not been successful yet, I hope this is the one. Who knows I may win a lottery By the way, the auto start stop seems to be more active on this GT4 than my 2016 Cayman S? Was that the Harrogate car? How was the customer service from the dealer? Excellent, I must say. They were able to be patient with my indecisions.

kmpowell said: Glad it's worked out for you, OP. I have no doubt you're going to gel and love the car the more time you spend in it. Like you, when I got mine I was dallying with the idea of a 992 GT3 in a few years time, but the more I drive the GT4 the less I think that will happen, if at all. I'm assuming it's is this one? https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca... Lovely spec car, it looks like a really nice one. The less said about that dealer the better though, hopefully you'll not have to take it back and/or use them again. My advice is to get friendly with your OPC, get it serviced there and have any warranty work done there. Show your OPC some love so you're covered for the future. Enjoy the car, keep us updated on how you progress with it. Yeah my OPC knows me well. I have serviced my Cayman S and retrofitted cruise control and did alignments there. They gave me a Cayenne GTS as a courtesy car when I serviced my Cayman S, my first experience of a flat 6 engine I don’t have any worries with the car, less than 6 month old with manufacturer warranty till 2025. So unlikely to visit the dealer for anything. I must say they have a number of cracking cars. Anyway I drove the car straight to the OPC wanting to adjust the tilt of the bucket seats (I like the backrest to be straight). One of them came out and said, it is fixed and the tilt is not adjustable. I don’t mind as it is anyway.

Message for ChrisW - as lowering gearing in the Cayman box will increase torque markedly, in particular in first and second gear, are you going to fit a new limited slip diff with a higher setting than the standard as part of your build? Well done to the OP for buying into the club. Sounds like a perfect choice and, as a guy with a bad back, there are days that I wish I had a pdk on my 981.....hope it gives you great joy. I am abut to move into year 5 of ownership and, although occasionally I look at 991.2 GT3 RS ads, I am holding firm ! Snowy

We were planning to check but leave the LSD as standard ...

LamedonM said: Anyway I drove the car straight to the OPC wanting to adjust the tilt of the bucket seats (I like the backrest to be straight). One of them came out and said, it is fixed and the tilt is not adjustable. I don’t mind as it is anyway. Congratulations on the new car. When you say you like the backrest to be straight, are you saying you want the backrest more upright or more reclined? I have used the following on a couple of cars and they make the 918 bucket seats perfect for me (I find them too upright, though). https://www.trackspecauto.com/parts/ts001

Congrats on the purchase OP welcome to the GT4 club!

philj said: Congratulations on the new car. When you say you like the backrest to be straight, are you saying you want the backrest more upright or more reclined? I have used the following on a couple of cars and they make the 918 bucket seats perfect for me (I find them too upright, though). https://www.trackspecauto.com/parts/ts001 You can sometimes pick them up on ebay cheaper Great modification, turns them into long range touring seats as well.

philj said: LamedonM said: Anyway I drove the car straight to the OPC wanting to adjust the tilt of the bucket seats (I like the backrest to be straight). One of them came out and said, it is fixed and the tilt is not adjustable. I don’t mind as it is anyway. Congratulations on the new car. When you say you like the backrest to be straight, are you saying you want the backrest more upright or more reclined? I have used the following on a couple of cars and they make the 918 bucket seats perfect for me (I find them too upright, though). https://www.trackspecauto.com/parts/ts001 More upright

200Plus Club said: philj said: Congratulations on the new car. When you say you like the backrest to be straight, are you saying you want the backrest more upright or more reclined? I have used the following on a couple of cars and they make the 918 bucket seats perfect for me (I find them too upright, though). https://www.trackspecauto.com/parts/ts001 You can sometimes pick them up on ebay cheaper Great modification, turns them into long range touring seats as well. Please, how is it advertised on eBay?

LamedonM said: Please, how is it advertised on eBay? I've only seen them to recline the (very upright) lwb seats.

LamedonM said: philj said: LamedonM said: Anyway I drove the car straight to the OPC wanting to adjust the tilt of the bucket seats (I like the backrest to be straight). One of them came out and said, it is fixed and the tilt is not adjustable. I don’t mind as it is anyway. Congratulations on the new car. When you say you like the backrest to be straight, are you saying you want the backrest more upright or more reclined? I have used the following on a couple of cars and they make the 918 bucket seats perfect for me (I find them too upright, though). https://www.trackspecauto.com/parts/ts001 More upright The only brackets I’ve seen are to recline the 918 buckets as they’re already pretty upright from factory. You could fit extra padding behind the back section of the seat, which may help make the seat feel slightly more upright.

LamedonM said: Anyway I drove the car straight to the OPC wanting to adjust the tilt of the bucket seats (I like the backrest to be straight). One of them came out and said, it is fixed and the tilt is not adjustable. I don’t mind as it is anyway. As others have said, most want to recline them further. I used to fit seats and pedals to race and rally cars, and most road drivers would be surprised how upright (and close the the steering wheel) a lot of seriously quick and experienced drivers want to be. I get where you are coming from, but it's maybe an unusual perspective. On top of the steering inputs and able to see where you are going has its advantages! Live with it for a bit. The standard 981 GT4 driving position with bucket seats feels just about perfect to me, but I also have the wheel relatively close to me and set on the higher side. The 718 GT4 feels pretty similar, possibly identical. If you're anything like me, you'll start thinking of it as what every vehicle should be like. I tend to raise my seat about 10mm from the lowest, make sure I can bottom the clutch with a slightly pointed left foot, adjust the steering wheel so my hands are just below shoulder height at a quarter to three. and make sure I can rest a wrist on top of the wheel with my shoulders against the seat. I'm sure everyone has a formula, but that one's working for me! Liam

The seats are okay as they are for now, so would leave them Any opinions on Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2: I believe they are track tires that are road usable. Dangerous on wet or greasy roads?

Dunlops slightly less capable in the wet than the Pilots imo. Otherwise very similar.

Yoko A052 best I have used for track tyre in thr wet. Great for 4 lap bursts. For long sessions, as Tyrone, I've been pretty impress with Sport Cup 2 and found them fine in the wet too !

LamedonM said: The seats are okay as they are for now, so would leave them Any opinions on Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2: I believe they are track tires that are road usable. Dangerous on wet or greasy roads? I didn't like them at all for road use. Cold and greasy roads they seemed at their worst, but I was pretty circumspect if I saw any streams or standing water on motorways and dual carriageways too. Never did aquaplane noticeably on them, but probably not designed to clear water from the tread as a primary aim. I have a set of PS Cup 2 on my 981 GT4 that seem better, but generally have road tyres on it, and keep the track tyres are on a spare set of wheels for when they are needed. Most sporty tyres don't work terribly well on the road when ambient temperatures are low. Tyre manufacturers generally seem to say below 7 Celcius. Liam

Yeah. Thanks. They seem quite slippery on slightly wet greasy road

I have Dunlop Sport Maxx 2's on my GT4 and Cup 2's on my 3, and I must admit to being pleasantly surprised with the Dunlops.