What's "high mileage" for a 997.1 Turbo? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hey guys - looking at buying my first 911 Turbo. I need an Italian registered car (personal reasons). Been looking at something like this - 2008 manual 997.1 Turbo . It's got about 75k miles on the clock, but comes with full porsche warranty. Could this be considered as "high milage" for this age? What should I be on the look out for? I'm thinking of seeing whether I can get a compression test on the engine, but are there other things I should check as well?

Not sure about high mileage but that sure is a high price. You're not thinking of paying that surely?????

Cars in Italy are *expensive*!! Take a look https://www.autoscout24.it/lst/porsche/997/ve_turb... You won't get a good model for less than €80k here. I'd buy in the UK and import, but not many LHD cars come up there.

Wow, that's nuts. I'm assuming there's some sort of luxury tax when new??

Kind of... you pay the normal road tax ("bollo") at the top rate (~€1,200) and then you pay the high performance tax on top ("superbollo"), which is €3.87 for each additional KW above 100KW. So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year. But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age. So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year.

Everything sounds better in Italian. Even road tax. I wonder what word they have for "pizza"...

The 997.1 turbo uses the mezger engine, which, as you probably know, is likely the most reliable Porsche engine of the last 30 years. There are myriad 996 turbos with the same engine that are happy into six figures. Personally I have ~80k on mine and a recent compression test showed all cylinder figures in the high 90%s against spec which the mechanic said was "unbelieveable" for the age. It is high-ish for the age but hopefully the price reflects that. Other bits and bobs do fail but the engines are extremely strong and I wouldn't be worried about it if the servicing has been regular.

Oh, look on nine eleven uk forum in the 997 section for a list of common issues

ImbackYo said: Not sure about high mileage but that sure is a high price. You're not thinking of paying that surely????? Be interested in what you think the fair value price for this car should be if it was selling in the UK? 2008 manual 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes and ~75k miles

capodeicapi said: ImbackYo said: Not sure about high mileage but that sure is a high price. You're not thinking of paying that surely????? Be interested in what you think the fair value price for this car should be if it was selling in the UK? 2008 manual 997 Turbo with ceramic brakes and ~75k miles £52,000 max I'd say.

LunarOne said: £52,000 max I'd say. Interesting... so about €61,000. That means there's almost a 28% premium on buying this car in Italy. Great arbitrage opportunity if I can find a LHD one for sale in the UK!

The UK is a peculiar market for luxury cars. Many expensive cars are much cheaper after 10 years than they are on the continent. There are probably many factors, one of them certainly being the only RHD country in Europe. As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here. But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values? Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts. An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London. This brings me to the second possibility: residual values. This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars. Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy. So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry. But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max. In the end it is always a question of the right price. Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC. And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool

Why not choose a 996 turbo? Far more choice, especially if you want a manual coupe and plenty of scope if you want it to go faster. Worth trying a search on Elferspot for a LHD of either 996 or 997 turbo. I may be a little biased!

capodeicapi said: LunarOne said: £52,000 max I'd say. Interesting... so about €61,000. That means there's almost a 28% premium on buying this car in Italy. Great arbitrage opportunity if I can find a LHD one for sale in the UK! Don't take my word for it though. I know the market for private and trade 997 of the more usual spec such as Carreras, CS2, CS4, and GTS cars but I'm less well informed about Turbos. So call that an educated guess. Wait for more opinions before making any buying decisions.

capodeicapi said: Kind of... you pay the normal road tax ("bollo") at the top rate (~€1,200) and then you pay the high performance tax on top ("superbollo"), which is €3.87 for each additional KW above 100KW. So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year. But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age. So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year. Buy one in Dubai and import it.

996 turbo, manual, LHD and 66,000km at €69k. https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-996-turbo... 997 turbo, auto LHD, 41k miles at €80k https://www.elferspot.com/en/car/porsche-997-turbo...

Coincidentally my 2008 997.1 Turbo manual started its life in Italy. It’s now in Sweden where I live and paid the equivalent of €66k last summer. It had 87000km at the time of purchase. The sek to eur is very favorable for anyone buying from Europe at the moment. I’m sure you could pick up a nice lhd turbo in Sweden then have a great time driving it back to Italy. That’s what the buyer of my previous GT4 did. It now lives In France. He paid €80k for it which was around 20% less than the equivalent car on the continent but was a good private selling price here. Here’s a private sale for around €65k. I’m sure you could be cheeky and offer €61k (700k SEK) for a quick sale. https://www.blocket.se/annons/kalmar/porsche_911_9... My guess is that the porsche warranty on the car in Italy is why it’s expensive. These cars are getting old now and can throw up big bills. As mentioned the mezger is very reliable but there are lots of things that can and do go wrong. Not sure I’d be keen on Ceramics on a 15+ yr old car either. The thought of something breaking keeps me awake at night but then the shove in the back when you press the throttle is worth it and seriously addictive. Edited by Oz83 on Thursday 13th July 22:15

Filibuster said: The UK is a peculiar market for luxury cars. Many expensive cars are much cheaper after 10 years than they are on the continent. There are probably many factors, one of them certainly being the only RHD country in Europe. As a Swiss I often browse the classified on here or on Autotrader and marvel at the many interesting cars that are way cheaper than here. But regarding OPs question: OP why are you asking? Because of worries regarding longevity or because of residual values? Regarding the former, as has been pointed out already, the 997 Turbo has a very good reputation for having one of the most reliable Porsche engines. And the 997 in general shares this body wise. Many components of the chassis need a refresh after a certain amount of time and mileage, but this is to be expected with any car. This also applies for many other parts. An other factor is that mileage affects engines (and other parts of the drive line) less than heat cycles. Often a well looked after car with high miles that has been used for long trips is a better choice than a low mileage one that has been used daily for a 5 mile commute around London. This brings me to the second possibility: residual values. This one is difficult to answer, but generally the broad buyer is very mileage sensitive. And since the 997 has begun to be a modern classic (or whatever you want to call it) there are many traders, collectors, speculators and enthusiast who are after low mile cars. Also keep in mind that different countries have different mental barriers for what is considered to be high mileage. In the UK this is generally 100k miles. I don‘t know what it is in Italy. So in conclusion, it depends on what you are looking for to get out of the car. If you are after a car to enjoy yourself, i.e. a drivers car, I wouldn‘t worry. But for it to be a trophy / garage queen car it probably needs to have half the miles max. In the end it is always a question of the right price. Personally I prefer a a well used car that has stuff replaced by a specialist, than the more expensive low miler that only has had a quick oil change every two year at the OPC. And remember, at a certain point high miles become cool Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Yes, I’m predominantly thinking about it from a reliability / longevity perspective. I know the mezger engine is pretty bulletproof, but I’m going to be using this predominantly for relatively long journeys at a time (200km+) and want something that’s going to reliably get me there and back. Quite happy to perform preventive maintenance, but I do want the car to last well into the 100k miles (I can easily see myself doubling the current mileage over the next 5 years).

g7jhp said: Why not choose a 996 turbo? Far more choice, especially if you want a manual coupe and plenty of scope if you want it to go faster. Worth trying a search on Elferspot for a LHD of either 996 or 997 turbo. I may be a little biased! It’s a lovely car. I’m just more set on the 997 shape.

stuckmojo said: Buy one in Dubai and import it. Import charges into Italy (EU) are ridiculous if you haven’t owned the car there for at least a year

Oz83 said: Coincidentally my 2008 997.1 Turbo manual started its life in Italy. It’s now in Sweden where I live and paid the equivalent of €66k last summer. It had 87000km at the time of purchase. The sek to eur is very favorable for anyone buying from Europe at the moment. I’m sure you could pick up a nice lhd turbo in Sweden then have a great time driving it back to Italy. That’s what the buyer of my previous GT4 did. It now lives In France. He paid €80k for it which was around 20% less than the equivalent car on the continent but was a good private selling price here. Here’s a private sale for around €65k. I’m sure you could be cheeky and offer €61k (700k SEK) for a quick sale. https://www.blocket.se/annons/kalmar/porsche_911_9... My guess is that the porsche warranty on the car in Italy is why it’s expensive. These cars are getting old now and can throw up big bills. As mentioned the mezger is very reliable but there are lots of things that can and do go wrong. Not sure I’d be keen on Ceramics on a 15+ yr old car either. The thought of something breaking keeps me awake at night but then the shove in the back when you press the throttle is worth it and seriously addictive. Edited by Oz83 on Thursday 13th July 22:15 Thanks, I’ll take a look. Your note actually made me worried that I might actually be doing a mad thing. It is a 15 years old cars, but my logic is that a 15 year old car in 2023 is much more reliable than a 15 year old car was in 2003 (if you get my logic). Am I wrong?

capodeicapi said: Thanks, I’ll take a look. Your note actually made me worried that I might actually be doing a mad thing. It is a 15 years old cars, but my logic is that a 15 year old car in 2023 is much more reliable than a 15 year old car was in 2003 (if you get my logic). Am I wrong? Even by modern standards a 997 is well screwed together. It’s also relatively free from modern tech and are relatively simple. I think they sit in the sweet spot in car evolution terms. Modern enough to use regularly but still retain a classic feel. It’s not a mad thing to do if you really want a 997 Turbo. Nobody said buying an old 997 would be cheap and easy but if it’s your dream car then it’s worth it. It’s an iconic car with the last turbo mezger and is the last of the manual 911 turbos. They are special cars. If you buy a new car you will lose in depreciation. Buy a 997 turbo it will cost you more to run and maintain. Your choice.

I also look sometimes at 997.1 turbo manual, not crazy expensive but... there are also 997.1 tuner turbo cars, 9ff and so on, some look good and 600-800hp ok, those are more expensive but still a lot cheaper then say the 997.1 GT2 model with standard 530hp and RWD only incl manual. more interesting are the 997.2 manual porsches, way more rare, 500hp a bit better looking I think, but hm, way more expensive also, choices choices, but looking into those is also a sort 'hobby' , sadly can only have 1 car here, have a 1 car garage, a roomy one, but no way 2 cars, even without driveway sadly, although happy that I have a garage behind the house in a city.

I have one with 107,000 miles which I've driven from new. Most of the time I run around at 650hp. Occasionally I use sport mode which is closer to 700bhp and on trackdays I run with race fuel with at least 750bhp plus on race map. Engine and gearbox both stock. I've had a broken prop shaft and rear drive shaft and a few other things like EGT sensor totalling circa £10k plus VAT of repair bills in the last few months with the Minty spending more time at garage 9e than with me. These are light bills if God forbid engine or gearbox goes thats when they start getting costly to run Having said that its my daily driver for last 16 years. The gen 2 cars whilst faster with PDK etc their engines chocolate when compared to the mezger if you want to tune. Find one thats been looked after with annual servicing and a car with low owners. I must have at least £40k-£50k of service and repairs over 16 years with the last 6 years of ownership being the most expensive in terms of essential repairs.

ah, a real user :-) nice color Porsche btw, must be rare.

If I exclude upgrades thats still only 40p to 50p a mile so way cheaper running costs than most sports cars. The heavier bills sadly do start at circa 80k miles. An engine rebuild is £25k and a gearbox rebuild is £10k. Still not the worst. Thanks there's two Mint Green 997s in the UK I'd love to buy the other one which is a very cool 997.2 GT3.

Saw Minty on the blocks in 9E and wondered what it was in for, looks great 75k over 15 years is only 5k per year and probably a better bet than a garage queen for much more money. They are expensive to maintain if not looked after regularly and consistently so get a thorough check over from someone who knows. A mate bought my manual 997 turbo off me after I had it for 4 years. I had it serviced yearly despite only doing 3k pa, and got a 9E inspection done. Even so his recent 9E bill was 5k for various suspension bits. Some dick nicked my wing mirror glass which bemused until I was told £800 to replace The car you link to OP has a non standard exhaust so beware engine mods (as in check they are decent, the engines are tough)

Thanks yes love Minty my running costs nearer circa £3k per year over 16 years (lets say £50k worst case divided by 16 I do not even want to look at the recent bills they've been a complete shocker). Also I'd say the broken bits I've suffered in 2023 all a result of the tuning and extra power and the power on mine is dialled all the way up to 10 to be fair they leave 9e dialled back a bit to warp factor 8 normally. JZM said they'd never heard of a propshaft or driveshaft ever breaking on a 997 turbo. I think if you run these stock your bills would be in region of £1.5k to £2k per year over say a 10 year period if you buy a good example but Porsche leaves so much power off the table with these rude not to tune IMO

capodeicapi said: Kind of... you pay the normal road tax ("bollo") at the top rate (~€1,200) and then you pay the high performance tax on top ("superbollo"), which is €3.87 for each additional KW above 100KW. So for 353 kW (480Hp) Turbo you'd pay the normal bollo of €1,200 and then the superbollo of €3,360 on top. So you have to pay €4,560 tax a year. But that's only for the first 5 years. It drops to 60% after 5 years, 30% after 10 and then remains at 15% for the remaining time after 15 years of age. So for this vehicle I'd pay total tax of €1,700 per year. Do you have to pay to change the ownership when you buy a car it Italia?

ATM said: Do you have to pay to change the ownership when you buy a car it Italia? Isn't that known as stealing otherwise?

ATM said: Do you have to pay to change the ownership when you buy a car it Italia? Yep - can cost anywhere from €300 to €1,500 depending on the power of the car

capodeicapi said: ATM said: Do you have to pay to change the ownership when you buy a car it Italia? Yep - can cost anywhere from €300 to €1,500 depending on the power of the car I was told this by someone I know there and thought it was shocking. It explains why once a car gets old and not worth much no one ever sells them because who would buy if they had to pay a fee to change ownership docs.

ATM said: I was told this by someone I know there and thought it was shocking. It explains why once a car gets old and not worth much no one ever sells them because who would buy if they had to pay a fee to change ownership docs. not sure why 1,500 tax would impact a 85k car much (or 300 on a 5k car)

Adam. said: ATM said: I was told this by someone I know there and thought it was shocking. It explains why once a car gets old and not worth much no one ever sells them because who would buy if they had to pay a fee to change ownership docs. not sure why 1,500 tax would impact a 85k car much (or 300 on a 5k car) I was interested in buying a cheap old fiat to keep rather than renting a hire car every time I go. For maybe 500 - 1000 purchase price. But there are none for sale.

ATM said: I was interested in buying a cheap old fiat to keep rather than renting a hire car every time I go. For maybe 500 - 1000 purchase price. But there are none for sale. You can't own (or insure) an Italian number plated car unless your a resident I believe unfortunately.

997.1 Turbo DD with 123k from new (2007). Gearbox replaced at 90k (would’ve been upwards of £25K but for the warranty covering it) and turbos, injectors and intercooler needed replacing just now, cost of app. £14k. Porsche 15 year warranty of course is an absolute no brainer, but I am well beyond that now so it’s a case of it is what it is. Had a few niggly electrical faults over the years which has been pretty much the most annoying thing. It’s currently driving as well as ever with diagnostic saying it’s pulling pretty much the same bhp as it did new. Its been going up in value for the past three years so it’s pretty much free motoring as far as depreciation goes.

What sort of gearbox is £25k new? Manual or tip? I expect an exchange engine nearer £50k nowadays from OPC.

capodeicapi said: Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. Yes, I’m predominantly thinking about it from a reliability / longevity perspective. I know the mezger engine is pretty bulletproof, but I’m going to be using this predominantly for relatively long journeys at a time (200km+) and want something that’s going to reliably get me there and back. Quite happy to perform preventive maintenance, but I do want the car to last well into the 100k miles (I can easily see myself doubling the current mileage over the next 5 years). A 997 turbo engine is as good as any for long term/ high mileage reliability - the Mezger being good for 24 hour racing at the Nurburgring, etc. Also if it has Porsche warranty then you have peace of mind and if you can extend it then even better. Sounds like you need to get out and drive the nuts off it