Tip vs Manual comparisons at 'having fun' speeds

Firstly, this thread is not intended to provoke a Tip v Manual argument. I just thought that I'd share some research I've done. I had a 'spirited' drive on Sunday morning and it dawned on me when I got back that for most of the time I'd only used two of my cars five gears. Since then I've wondered whether I'd have used any more if I'd have been in a manual car. Yesterday, after studying the 'Transmission Diagrams' in my Driver's Manual, I realised that the first, second and top gear ratios of the Tip' and the manual are virtually the same. I suppose this would explain why the acceleration times and top end speeds are the same. The difference is in the middle, where the manual car has three gears and the Tip' only has two. Given that most of the fun of driving a 996 is to be had between 4000 and 6500 rpm this means that Tip' drivers only have to use two gears whilst manual pilots have to use three. i.e Manual cars (4000-6500 rpm) 3rd gear = 56-91 mph 4th gear = 73-118 mph 5th gear = 84-137 mph Tiptronic cars (4000-6500 rpm) 3rd gear = 62-100 mph 4th gear = 87-141 mph My conclusion was that if I'd been driving a manual car last Sunday I probably would have still spent most of the time in 3rd and 4th gears. Do manual drivers agree :?:

It depends what your route was and how often you had to slow down. There is one particular twisty road near me that sometimes, just for fun, I go the whole way in third. My car is so torquey and flexible, and revs freely, that it does it with ease. If you do a track day then you probably do spend most of the time in 3rd and 4th.

find my tip is a good balance and when pressing on often use the manual switches to hold the car in 3rd or 4th rather than letting constantly jump straight to 5th the moment you back off slightly if i had a manual i doubt i would use 5th or 6th very much unless cruising on a motorway and changing between 3 gears instead of up or down between 2 seems unnecessary so i think you are right that the extra ratio in the manual wouldnt add much to the driving experience on a fast country road had an interesting back to back test of an Aston Martin V12 vantage with a manual gearbox and a V8s with the "flappy paddle" 7 speed recently and found the manual far more intimidating to drive swiftly than the paddle shift and also had to concentrate on the gearchanges far more in the manual (even though it could haul from 30 to 180 at a fairly rapid rate in 6th) which distracted from the driving far more than flicking a paddle through the gears i am sure just as many savor the manual shift and feel its part of the driving experience to work the gears correctly i just find the tip far more relaxing and fun to drive most of the time

As a side note, do tip users tend to use buttons in manual when having fun or just use D? I do miss judging the engine speed with my left foot between changes but find the tip excellent and a very smooth way to change up/down in a blink! :thumbs: Dave

Terry I agree, most of the time I'm in third or fourth. I used to leave it in D unless I was on country roads as I found the tip adapted quite well to sporty driving but since talking to Hartech I now use the M setting almost exclusively. The D setting tends to default to the highest possible gear, which is good for fuel economy etc but as Hartech expressed "it can be a bit too old fogey". There are two issues: one it tends to be in too high a gear if you want instant acceleration (yes it kicks down superbly, but there is a slight delay); and two, more seriously, it labours the engine more. Because there is plenty of torque it will still accelerate but it will be trying to do it from quite low revs initially and unless you invoke kick down the tip probably won't drop a gear whereas in a manual you would change down. I'm not explaining it very well but my observation is that unless the tip is in one of it's sporty programs it tends to be a gear higher than I would select. This in itself is not a problem (as I've said, helps fuel economy if your just pottering around) but, and I accept this is in part Porsche paranoia, it adds an incremental strain to the engine when accelerating from low revs. Positive outcome from using M is I've got pretty good with the buttons. Going back to your original question, I would like to hear from some more manual drivers as to what gears they tend to be in. Are they largely flicking between third and fourth?

would be nice is to hear from a (honest) Tiptronic driver who has followed a manual car round a track and vice versa... were there any areas where either car left the other/ was too close and ended up backing off .. M mode or D mode... and if so what kind of corners, hairpins, fast sweepers.. long straights.. track times..

In the year & a day and 12,000+ miles that I've had a Tiptronic 2 (Mercedes) in a C4, I've learnt to be quite pushy with it in D. In M, it does just what you tell it to do with the buttons. In D, once the engine's hot, the box needs a good kicking to put it one of the quicker programmes and then the willingness by the driver to keep it there. At two-thirds pedal-travel, the Tip can be remarkably responsive. That said, you can always do the job with the buttons, too, of course. The D & M combination works well.

'D' whilst warming up, driving in steady traffic and on motorways. 'M' for 'having fun'.

I'd be interested to hear views on this too but think it would be difficult to get a complete picture from it as THE biggest variable is driver ability. It wouldn't take much for a good driver to make either car significantly quicker. I've been held up by Turbos and have had to move over for 944's. What I'm pretty sure of however is that me in a manual would be no quicker than me in a Tip' in 'M' mode. A Tip' in 'D' mode is a different matter. The only time that I was able to get my Tip' to perform how I wanted it to in 'D' mode was after a few hours at Bruntingthorpe, at 15mpg, by which time the auto was changing up at 5500+ prm. I've done quite a few laps at Brands (Indy) in 'M' and have loved it . I tried it in 'D' and it was horrid.

I think the change programmes on the PDK are much better suited to track use. In sport plus mode it is hard to see why you would ever need to use the paddles except for the occasional early upshift if it is proving difficult to get the power down cleanly. After 2 epic tours this year around some of the best roads in and around the Alps and Scottish Highlands I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I barely used (or rather felt that I needed to use) the paddles at all... :grin:

So ........... when do manual drivers use their 5th gear :?:

Interesting thread, I for one use my tip 90% of the time in manual mode as I prefer the control of the changes. And on nice sweeping A roads, the reality is that the gear change even on the "slow" tip is still quicker (and arguable a little safer as you have both hands on the wheel) than a manual. But, I don't believe that people's choices are based on whether they perceive the car/gear change to be quicker... It's all about feel. IMHO with a manual gearbox you do feel mechanically linked to the car, and I ultimately i do prefer the ability to control the power with both clutch and accelerator.

'D' whilst warming up, driving in steady traffic and on motorways. 'M' for 'having fun'. plus one

Nah, you're missing quite a lot of the fun. For example, controlling the Tip S gear changes with your foot at higher revs - a lot more activity than just a kick-down - and going fast ( n +20) downhill into a roundabout, braking hard at the 2-bar marker and listening to & feeling the Tip change down and engine brake twice before you enter the roundabout.

I've not used manual that much so after reading this thread I thought I'd spend the day in M today, I actually really preferred it, I do find that D is usually a gear to high for me unless pushing on a lot, I think I'll be sticking with M for a while unless I'm on the motorway... Dave