Wrong Car, Wrong Car ! - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I only saw glimpses of the program & the last few minutes,where the guy walked stright past the Elise to the TVR. Good luck to him his heart ruled his decision & what ever happens he will have fulfilled a dream. For excitement can you possibly compare a brief drive in a Boxster to a 5 litre Grifiths?? The Boxster may get better as time goes on,but the guy would clearly be wondering what it would have been like to have some real power.

....I think his exact words were "The Boxster was totally uninspiring" + "it reminds me of my mother". They never even got as far as mentioning the clutch (!) because by that time he had driven the Tiv and had a serious hard on !!!! Better luck next time

The bloke was buying with his heart and his ears - not his head. Also - a brief test drive in a Boxster is not going to bring out its qualities which are subtle frankly. Also: 26K. His budget was 30! For that extra 4K they could have put up a significantly newer Boxster or possibly even found an early S. The Porsche did not get a fair crack - but even if it HAD he wouldn't have bought it. That guy wanted the Griff the moment he saw it. And why not? Sounds brilliant and goes like stink. He will either love it and gladly deal with the issues of owning a Tiv or he'll lose patience with it rapidly. To my mind he looked like a newbie enthusiast. Hope he enjoys the car...

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......yup, thats pretty much what the guy said after driving it

I'd have thought for £30k they would have looked at a more powerfull 911 instead of the boxster. Nothing against the Boxster (I'd love one) but the 911s are generally more powerfull and thats what this guy wanted. Maybe a 993 or 964RS ? For sure he could have lost it coming off a roundabout in the wet with a 911 or boxster. I was curious to hear not a dicky bird about servicing or reliability uttered by either presenter. Hmmm.. £30k now and bank on another £1k every six months for repair/maintenance, plus depreciation, so over a 5 year period thats.... etc etc

Absolute rubbish. Servicing cost depends on mileage and will not cost him anything like £2,000 a year. Repairs will cost him nothing as 1) Griffs are pretty reliable and 2) that car will come with a warranty. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and life would be very dull if everyone had the same opinions. But do try and get the factual stuff correct :wandersoffshakinghisheadsadly:

My point exactly! The Boxster was NEVER going to appeal to that bloke. He got the right car for him. The Boxster is a MUCH subtler experience and he needed something upfront and in-yer-face. I can't think of a better car than the Griff for that. And its true that the Griff would be under warranty - the Boxster he was shown would not have been. Wrong Boxster IMHO. But hey..if everyone got off on Porsches TVRs wouldn't sell...and that would be very sad indeed.

As he said on the programme, he wanted something for the NOISE. And on that grounds there is no question that the TVR would be the choice!

I used to have an M Roadster and test drove a 2.7 Boxster an S and a Griff as its replacement. Whilst the standard Boxster felt more planted on the road than my M, it lacked outright acceleration and a sense of fun. The S was much much better, but I still felt it was lacking in the fun department. I remember thinking that if I wanted a car to drive fast from A to B, I'd choose the S, if I wanted to drive just for the fun of it, I'd take the M. I have little doubt that the S handled much better than the M, but there was something about the M that meant you had to focus and really drive it. I think its called crude rear suspension! I then drove a Griff and that was even more extreme and really appealed to me. Again, I have little doubt that the S is a faster car round corners, is better screwed together and generally handles better, BUT, for me the Griff is more fun because of its old fashioned handling characteristics. To give another example, on a track I really enjoy powersliding out of corners and generally letting the tail hang out. It is by no way the fastest way round the track, but it is great fun. And that's what I feel about the S versus the Griff. The S is a quicker car, but, for me, the Griff is more fun. It always used to amuse me that on Subaru trackdays all people ever used to talk about was the difficulty in getting their cars to oversteer, yet at the same time they looked down their noses at 'inferior' rear wheel drive cars. Interestingly on the programme last night they went round a roundabout a couple of times in the M trying to provoke oversteer, and complained that it would only understeer. Then they mentioned they had the traction control on!! The great thing is there are now all these ( reasonably affordable) cars with such different traits and we have the choice. Most Pistonheads applaud the existence of all performance cars, and a bit of light hearted banter aside, refrain from childish 'my car's better than your car' jibes....

????? On fast corners both the Scoobies I have had would oversteer naturally, on slower corners they just need a slight lift/left foot brake. The only time I ever had a problem with understeer, was when my front tires needed changing....

Coming from an Audi S3 I can't help but think he will get a shock at TVR build quality, running costs etc. Presenters would definately have done him a favour if they had added these 'facts' to his choices. I love TVR's, but (and it is a but based on all the general cries for help and advice on this site from TVR drivers who have just suffered another 'problem'), I think he may find the ownership experience a bit trying. Also; TVR was outside his budget of £26, so what happened to the budget when he went for the TVR? £30 would have got him into a broader/newer choice of cars. (especially as the Griff was up for £32K). OK, had my say, off to lunch in the Lexus 400 now! Igg

Did you have the Prodrive suspension settings? Because otherwise the Scoob was set up to, and does, understeer. Most people were not good enough drivers to actively think about the balance of the car, mid corner, on a track - and lift off to promote oversteer then get back on the throttle to keep it out there. I certainly wasn't!

No doubt about the Griff's startling credentials but I always found the sheer driveability of a boggo MkI Elise eminently satisfying, even when it shared it's four poster with a top hole Cerbera. In other words, the argument about TVR grunt overcoming all other planes of automotive enjoyment is simply flawed. At the end of the day, as has been oft cited by worthier wheelmen on this very forum, the overall balance of a 16v MkII Golf GTi, for example, provides a dynamic experience few might superficially give much credence to. There is simply no car in production today that gives somebody looking for daily/main car credentials PLUS a real driver's edge, quite the package offered by a Boxster - even if it's not an 'S.' And surely that's the point here? Of course, a quick twist of the key will seduce most who sample Tivdom for the first time but frankly, any vaguely objective analysis of the Boxter's repertoire will reveal that there's always more than one way to skin a cat!

I agree - it wasn't at all clear if he went into TVR ownership with his eyes open. I find the TVR ownership experience very rewarding, but I did a lot of research before hand and knew what to expect. Had I not I may have had a few unpleasant surprises if I had tried to treat the Griff as just another mass produced car. That said, I had more problems with my BMW than I have had with the Griff - and the Griff problems were caused by the (now-ex) TVR dealer working on it.

Derestrictor...I agree that the Grunt will not alone overcome all automotive flaws...But for this guy who seemed to put his main criteria for buying a car down to marque prestige & noise,it was a no brainer for him. In fact how on earth did they stretch this program out to 30 minutes ?? Personally i would have had an Elise 111s for the money as I feel it would be more rewarding & with some good training I would get more value out of it with my type of driving.

I wonder if the guy from the programme is on here ? The look of shock on his face when the back end got twitchy was a joy to behold.

Errr wrong acutually. Our Griff, purchased 18 months ago has depreciated by about £500 - no more. They seem to be holding their value very well at the moment now the factory have stopped producing them.

Firstly, N17, if you're only going to take the piss, then please leave. Your childish comments are not welcome in this post. The fact you've only got a spent clutch to bang on about speaks volumes. Where do you start with TVR reliability? Secondly, why the hell didn't they find him an S? We both thought the 2.7 was okay but when we drove an S, well, that was it. Plus Emm uses it everyday, so she had to be able to open the doors and so forth. I was shouting at the screen.

No more than £500 quid depreciation in 18 months. Absolutely brilliant a genuine gilt edged investment. The FTSE was down 24.5% last year for it's troubles..Investment managers & pension funds the world over would have been better off investing in griffiths & having some fun.

What ?????? I don't think Don had an issue earlier on, with what after all was a bit of friendly banter. Given the fact that as a TVR owner I am constantly told by people who don't own one, about 'TVR reliability' I don't think you should begrudge a gentle dig at a Porsche weakness. Wind your neck in, and take it all a bit less seriously.

It's good that we all have oppinions but N17 TVR it's not the first time you have been on the Porsche section,with the Boxster clutch one liner...It was amusing the first time,after the Driven test.but I can see some getting a little wound up. Maybe try it from another angle to add a bit of variety & originality,pad it out a little before you deliver the punchline...or is this solitary clutch incident the only Boxster reliability story you know of??

Herman, I notice from your profile that you've never owned a TVR, so I'm kind of curious to find out what you're basing your slagging of the marque on? Obviously not personal experience. I would have a jibe at Porsche's in retaliation, but what's the point? - and besides they are pretty decent cars! Maybe one day I'll go looking for a 911, something a bit more practical and useable than my TVR, but for the meantime I (much like the guy on the show) want something a little more 'in your face', a bit more exciting to drive... Each to there own and all that....

OK, big apologies guy's. Firstly for using the same one liner too often and becoming tedious, secondly for suggesting that the Porsche brand isn't perfect, thirdly for not realising what sensitive little flowers you all are. Maybe the generalized perception of Porsche drivers isn't that far off the mark after all.

Jeez guys, cut N17 a bit of slack... maybe it is a one liner, and an over-used one at that... but it's abit of harmless fun. Given the amount of stick dished out by the people on this forum, I don't think anyone is completely blameless of having a one liner dig... some of the stick I've taken for knob gags / working for Ford / etc etc... Also worth noting that no one ever murdered Scruff for the "do you play golf" malarky... Everyone count to ten... and play nicely.

Greg, I don't agree with you about N17. I think he's just joining in with the fun. Trackdemon and Big M, Did you not see the wink at the end of my post ? Lighten up boys.

N17 TVR..no need for generalisation we are all enthusiasts on here,as was the guy on the program last night...next time you are out in that fine Chimeara enjoy the car & try not to get too worried about other peoples perceptions,just have fun which must be easy in a V8 soft top.

Seems that today is national no sense of humour day... ah well... I thought your post was funny...

Clubsport - a true gentlemen and a Knight of the road >> Edited by N17 TVR on Tuesday 11th February 14:25

Point here is that the Rover engined TVRS are generally reliable aren't they?...No way that Griff 500 is going to be worth £500 less than he paid for it next year just 'cos they don't build 'em anymore - ISTR reading about how the last of the line 993s would never lose value due to their status as the last of the genuine 911s...well that didn't come true did it. Once cars of a certain type (I daren't use the term "sportscars" as some MGF owners might then think we're talking about them....) reach a certain price level they tend not to depreciate at a rapid rate - I'm willing to be that the man who posted to the effect that his Griff is worth £500 less than he paid for it owns one that falls into that category....but I'm probably wrong and he has indeed bought £30ks worth of last of the line Griffith....

N17, As a moderator on this forum, I thought you were playing by the rules, and your gentle ribbing was welcome. It is the 'nazi staff car' and 'no character' comments that are best kept off this forum, not good natured piss taking and stimulating debate. Greg may have been a bit over-sensitive. Maybe lost his round of golf, clutch gone again etc. Domster (moderator) >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Tuesday 11th February 14:35

Oooooooooooh I'v had a sex change Debs

Don't worry, no offence taken on my part. Thanks for the post Domster and Gregs on the other thread.

And heres me trying to promote a bit of cross marque harmoney and you lot just want a fight

I do apologise. Hope you didnt get the hump about me having a go at the girlfriend either.

Herman you can hump who you like mate

No and no Dom, huge pile of washing, revision, cars that need washing too. All the usual nonsense.

Just got pointed in this direction from the one in General Gassing - didnt realise that it got so heated! Come on chaps - its just a bit of fun.... One slightly contentious comment though - TVR have 'lost' just about every other comparison that has been on TV (the only other time was a similar BBC programme where they got a Cerbera in replacement for a Cavalier!!!). It is getting blatently obvious that the UK motoring press is biased towards two german manufacturers - BMW and Porsche. They are not bad cars by any stretch - either the cheaper or more expensive models. But us TVR owners have taken grief, jip, comments and jabs for months, nee years and it is just nice to have it turned around for once.... Just one quick example - Driven and their comparison between the Tamora and Boxster. BOTH Boxsters cooked their clutches and had to be pushed around (ok, can happen to a lot of cars and un-representative of Boxsters I know) - did they make a comment about that? No, did they vote for the Porker? Yes, was it fixed - mmm, dont know, but certainly looked that way. Had it been the TVR that failed then it would have been everywhere.... Just nice to see a happy owner that seems to share the same opinions as the rest of us..... Oh, and lighten up - its only a car for christs sake. Cheers, Paul

For yonks the motoring press and tv programmes have given TVR a really easy time - hardly any mention of breakdowns, trim falling off and all the other stuff that used to (still?) happen - go back to Fast Lane days (great mag RIP) and Peter Dron was absurdly easy on TVR, despite the fact the mag ran one for a while and he managed to bend a driveshaft on a 390 (I saw one do the same thing on the Mulsanne back in 1987, roflol). I love what TVR do and have contemplated buying a Cerbera several times - but no one will really tell me whether they are a good or bad buy - I get drowned in torrents of abuse if I ever try to post on the subject and even suggest that the engine is a weak point....

you are kidding ? every time Mr Clarkson opines on the subject, he mentions reliability as a soft under-current....I think it's also pretty true of most mags (sorry, only look at Evo, Autocar, Car). As to whether the cars are reliable - depends what you benchmark against and how 'the' Manufacturer goes about rectifying any issues and maintaining their face. Personally, I wouldn't own a TVR as an only car, but I love having one as a luxury. Again, talking personally, I've had as much trouble with the family Sharan (& our VW dealer) as all the TVR's I've ever owned. Don't take this personally, I'm not being malicious, though maybe contentious and say that no, you probably shouldn't get one - but, you'll always wonder what it would have been like.

I ran my old Chim from new for 30k miles. Sold it to my next door neighbour and he ran it to 50k miles. Neither of us suffered a single breakdown. He had the gear lever go floppy once (cracked selector joint, fixed in under an hour) but other than that things were pretty good. He sold the Chim and bought a Porsche 911 C4. I got bitten by the tax man and bought a slightly older TVR (91, 400se) + a working car to get around in, firstly a Rover 800 vitesse, laterly a Volvo S60. My Rover did 140kmiles with no problems My Volvo has done 50k miles (so far) and has more problems than the entire contents of Rampton security hospital My TVR has done 50k miles with some niggles, but has never broken down. My neighbors Porsche has been recovered by the RAC 3 times so far........ Does that make Porches bad and TVRs good? Or even Rovers bad and Volvos shite? No and No! Fact is that in the great Porsche Vs TVR stand off there are two great lies that keep being repeated: 1, TVRs always have reliability problems 2, Porsches are always perfect. Neither is true. Both manufacturers have a share of problems. That said, Porsche dealers are rather more professional on average (according to my neighbour) Both cars are brilliant. Both marques are the stuff of schoolboy dreams. Vive la difference! (as the French would say) Andy 400se

Right, this is getting on my tits, apart from early S6 engines having problems with parts supplied externally TVR's are as prone to the same problems as any other make (my Griff has run problem free for 2 years now)Lets bury this crap once and for all, if you think they are unreliable, fine, bog off quietly and buy something else but stop coming here and dragging this bollox to the surface again

I had a massive response lined up then - but the bloody thing wouldnt post! Couldnt access PH, so lost the text. Anyway, horses for courses and lets be honest, TVR's arent as bad as 'some' people make out and Porsches arent perfect. Oh, and I have the current Clarkson DVD - he has bitched and moaned about TVR and their lack of electronic aids for years. However, on the latest DVD he makes probably the most accurate comment on TVRs from him yet - "...they assume that you can drive, and they assume that you can drive well...." Somewhat of a turn around for old JC there I think.... Cheers, Paul Oh, and on the depreciation issue - a friend of mine just got rid of his Boxster 2.7 on a V. Bought for £37K sold for £21K... Nice...

OK Guys, I'm on my third Porsche, and used to own a Chimaera 450. Both the Boxster and the Chimp suffered from a variety of build-quality related electrical problems. Yes, the Chimp stranded me by the roadside twice (which none of the Porkers has ever done). In the year that I had them, the Boxster (2.5) cost me about 150 in servicing, the Chimp cost me over 2000. If I'd be tracking petrol consumption figures I would have given my bank manager a coronry as I managed 30mpg in the Boxster and often had the Chimps mpg in single figures. Why don't we just agree it's like comparing Oranges with Pears, and that different fruit appeals to different punters? (Or even, like me, the same punter). Fox ---

Well as you may know I had the car for £30k problem Bought the 993 and not regreting it. Although it did go home on an AA truck on Sunday Fixed now and I'm off skiing in it tonight

Oh well, we have managed to go a few months without the TVR v Porker debate rearing it's ugly head, like Iraq and USA war had to break out again at some point.... On a serious note, I just don't see why we have to compare them or get the hump whenever media people test them and pick one over the other. Surley it's just down to your personal choice. It's all getting a bit dull and boring harping on about speed six engines, especially when I have just watched Watchdog and heard that VW's and Audi's are breaking down all over the World and that the VW group are having to recall 750,000 of them in the UK alone.... I almost bought a Boxtser S last year as a company car and ditched the TVR so I could use the Boxster every day and save the need for paying car tax on a Focus. I went and test drove the Boxster S and found it handled well ( not far off the Tamora) but it was way down on power (not suprising considering the 100bhp difference) The thing that put me off wasn't the power difference at all. It was two things. Firstly there wasn't enough leg room for me to feel comfortable (even with the seat full back) and secondly I knew that I wouldn't want to go out to play in it at the weekend when I had been driving it all week. The plus points were many. Cheaper to service and insure, cheaper on fuel and less likely to require big repair bills like you can get with a TVR. Despite the use my TVR's get ( around 10K a year) I have never had major problems with any of them. My biggest ever service bill is £700. I chose to keep the TVR (which is now being swapped for a T350C) because essentially I wouldn't want to do 30K business miles a year in the Porker. It doesn't mean I hate Porsches either, I just dont find them "fun" enough for a weekend toy, unless it's a 996 and they were well out of my price bracket. They are both good cars, why can't we just leave it at that instead of throwing cheap insults around all the time... ( and Domster, yours is a pimp-mobile not a Nazi staff car)

told you what'd happen didn't I....great to see the reliability of the ROVER engined cars being confirmed -read my post again please.....on second thoughts save yourself the time, don't bother...

Oh and on the VW/Audi front - they've known about this coil problem for what?...about a year...in fact 6 months ago a mate couldn't take delivery of his A4 because an across the board airbag problem required the steering wheels to be changed on the sport models and guess what? No dealer technicians were available to fit the wheel as they were all out replacing...coils

For £30K why did they not have 993 versus Cerbera or Tuscan?

Errr. aren't you coming here... this is the Porsche forum so people will be a little more supportive of their marque here. Also, just because there are a few instances of totally reliable Tivs (I always use Jeremyc's cerb as a shining example) this does not necessarily apply to across the board. There is enough documentary and anecdotal evidence to the contrary, just as I will be the first to admit that there is evidence out there of Porsche breaking down etc. As you correctly say, if you don't like TVRs and what they stand for, bog off and buy something else. This is what many Porsche owners have done. Stressing the reliability of your car and defending your marque will - sadly - change few minds. This subject has been done to death, and there are no right answers out there. What I would say, is that in many instances I love TVR's philosophy (great engine note, sod the bureacrats, keep it British) and in others I love Porsche's (let's engineer it to the point of anal retentiveness, make it practical, usable, comfortable and safe despite being a sports car). For me, I got turned off Tivs for two reasons (despite their many qualities): 1) When the front wishbones of a Chimaera I knew about rusted to the point of failure by the time of the car's first MoT, and a main dealer dismissed the complaint as they were cheap enough to replace as 'wear items'. Crap attitude from both factory and dealer... I don't believe any car should rust with the technology around these days. 2) When Scottster told me his seats were mounted directly to the fibreglass floor in his Griffith. Apparently you can get aftermarket remedies for this, but I am wary of any sports car company that doesn't seem to have the safety of its customers as a priority. None of the above may not matter to you, or other Tiv owners, but they mattered to me. Which is why I don't have a Tiv on my drive at this moment. Now, the Tamora, and future Tivs, may be addressing these points of philosophy that have turned me off the brand and its products. When they do, I may join the ranks of TVR owners. That's why I always listen to Flasher, alt, Jeremyc and crew, and soak up their point of view. (Although Flasher's pimp-mobile comments sometimes fall on deaf ears ). Interestingly, the cases that turned me off the marque are Rover engine related - and despite rubystone's comment, I believe they still have had their issues (the 500 engine had one or two, for starters). I suppose TVRs seem to ooze style over solidity, and it's the solidity that I quite like. I'd forfeit 30mph on the top end of a sports car, just to know that it had been engineered like a swiss watch or that the doors thunked shut. These are more accessible pleasures, perhaps, than extracting V-max on an autobahn once in your lifetime. And if the Porsche sounds a bit boring out of the box, get a sports exhaust and get it sounding more Tiv-like. It's easier to fix than re-engineering a Griff. Of course, for others, it's the style that counts - no petrolhead could dismiss the attraction of a big engined loon mobile that sounds great and goes even better, even if it was made from paper and margarine. They just might not buy it. I only mention these points as some TVR owners don't understand the standpoint of Porsche owners at all (and vice versa, I'm sure), but as a Porschephile I thought I could perhaps shed light on why *I* hold some of the views I do. I mean, who'd have thought rust and seat mountings would affect my choice of supercar, when I used to count the number of exhaust pipes on Countachs

Domster, all I can say is 'phew!' Btw, do you think an aluminium section along the top of Wulfenspeigelheim's new helm would be too affected? Chinschnellerslauter, DeR.

Hmmm, haven't seen the steering wheel, so difficult to comment. Sounds like a bad idea tho', mainly because could be slippy with sweaty palms and may reflect in windscreen ATB Dom

Fear not, black is the night and it shall prevail. I can't believe I'm getting even vaguely excited about a bloody steering wheel.

"In the year that I had them, the Boxster (2.5) cost me about 150 in servicing, the Chimp cost me over 2000. If I'd be tracking petrol consumption figures I would have given my bank manager a coronry as I managed 30mpg in the Boxster and often had the Chimps mpg in single figures" single figures??? I take it you never made it out of first gear then?

domster, oops, sorry bout that, I replied to the thread not realising it was a porker forum. Your points are all valid and I appreciate the views from 'the other side' I'll be the first to admit quality has not been what it could be and agree that the 'T' cars are streets ahead in this respect (I'm hoping to trade up to a Tuscan) I, like Flasher get the hump when people start slagging the marque off with little or no experience of the cars (obviously you are not one of these). I am still in awe of how far TVR have come, as a small manufacturer producing such exotic looking, sounding and performing cars, with in house engines and interior equipment. The mere fact that they are now compared with Deutschlands finest is one to marvel at.

Cheers for your friendly and reasonable comments. I will try and keep my posts below a million characters next time, to avoid overlong quotes Have fun in the T car when you get it. ATB Domster

All this talk of reliability, running costs, depreciation, have I wandered onto the WhatCar? website by mistake? Am I the only one who actually thinks owning a car that breaks down occassionally is quite cool? The fact that so-called normal people don't understand the concept of being into driving for the sake of it, and think you're weird for being willing to put up with a little bit of inconvenience in the process, is all part of the appeal. Chris

Didn't see the program but Dommonic Littlewood, the baldy bloke off right car wrong car, has got a 2.5 blue boxster(or had) , he wrote up a rave article in top gear a while back saying they were one of the best buys ever. He loved them , great resale, reliable, looks, handling etc Quite interesting. I agree that the TVR/Porsche thing is like, apples and pears. Raw hairy very fast cars against cars with poise control subtlety. The only thing I would point out is what Peter Wheeler chairman of TVR said "The trouble with all these high powered cars being developed today the speed 12 and cerbera included is that you can't use the power"

I would have said "Raw hairy very fast cars against very fast cars with poise control subtlety." If PW meant traffic congestion then valid point. If he meant actually getting the power down on to the road, he should try driving a 4WD 996 TT with PSM, that does a pretty good job.

I must admit, the only thing I have against modern porsches is... ...cup holders. Sign of middle age spread, eh? None of those in the Red Baron at last count C'mon Daz, rip out the buggers in your 996tt and get nice carbon fibre blanking plates instead

I totally share this opinion. Although we all have our own taste we sooner or alter let ourselves influcenced by the media, especially TV. Boycott TV

I've just been through the same process...£20k+ to spend on a convertible sports car. After exluding others on various grounds I test drove a couple of Griffith's and a Boxster. Thought process as follows, (IMO of course) Griff's seem to be pretty basic and therfore reliable but they do require a lot of upkeep. The forums are full of posts regarding heat damage to engine parts / overheating / leaks / flat batteries / rust to chassis and suspension / electrical failures / poor headlights / frequent expensive services / oil top ups and loss of control on wet / rough roads and bends. I do like tinkering around with cars and this would not present a problem but for lack of time (I was 2,000 miles over the service interval before I managed to get time to service my last car) - i'm always working! The Griff forum is technically a lot more interesting than the Porsche forum. My love of the intoxicating noise these beasts make would probably not be shared by my patients / neighbours at daft o'clock in the morning / night when I start / finish,(and rattle every window in an entire wing of the hospital!) I bought a Boxster because it is reliable, in the sense that the only time I spend on it involves a sponge and a bottle of Zymol. It doesn't have the performance of the Griff which is un-'kin-believable but for 95% of the time this extra performance is unusable for me. I can also drive faster in the Boxster as I know that it will come out of a bend the right way round if I make an error. This is perhaps more important to me as I often drive after being on my feet for longer than I would like. I must be getting old...I would love a Griffith but the Boxster was a more 'sensible' choice for me.

well the cup holders sold the porker for me. period.

Ah Yes, the TVR v Porsche thread. same as Ferrari v Aston martin (or Aston v Ferrari. Or Ferrari v Aston v jaguar) Viva La difference!!!!!! they are all great cars, all with good/bad points. Long may they be different!! William (as a Porshce owner, I'm not going to comment on this thread...)

Yes agreed, but, PW was talking about the Cerbera V12 with more than 900bhp, not a 'measly' 450! This is why TVR never sold a road-going speed 12. BTW if you look at the Evo article it mentioned the speed 12 engine broke the input shaft to the dyno, a 1000bhp jobbie.

Slightly off topic here - but anyone see Autocar this week? Comparing a Boxster, Audi TT V6 and Nissan 350Z. I was on first scan going to post something about the fact that the Porsche didnt win.... but then thought about it again.... They were criticising the Boxster for being too expensive... Hang on a second... Its a flaming convertible with a power hood - not cheap! And they are comparing it to two Fixed head coupes... which are cheaper... Not exactly a fair comparison really is it.... So, in this case I will defend Porsche as it seems that they have been on the receiving end of some pretty poor product comparison tests.... TVR seems to suffer this also... Edited to add : Their main criticsm of the Boxster was the cost - but hey £31K aint bad for a convertible... £27K for a souped up Golf 4x4 is.... but hey thats my opinion. Cheers, Paul >> Edited by pbrettle on Thursday 13th February 08:18

Ok - so what we're saying, is that you need both pork AND Blackpool rock at one's disposal? I think most on here could live with that! Oh yes; the other thing which is a highly pro-Tiv factor, btw, is the ludicrous 2nd hand rates for (particularly Chimp) these beasties...I was have a gander at these yesterday and there were umpteen mid-90s 4.0 and 4.5 litre cars for between £12 and £15k; there was a truly stunning 500 in a dazzling yellow at £18k with modest miles too. Fact is, they ARE fairly compelling super car bargains, end of story.

Surely the advertised secondhand price is only the start of the money you will spend on these cars. The threads I have seen concerning secondhand TVR suggest you need to keep at least a couple of grand back for the first years running expenses. TVR do generally offer more explosive performance than Porsche, clearly the price paid in terms of engineering reflects this.

Spot on CS. A friend owned 2 Chims about 6/7 years ago when they were fairly new and he had untold problems with both of them. He saw the light and now has a '73 RS replica based on a '72 T. How many Tiv's are gonna make it to 30 years of age ? I mean, come on, they only managed to complete a 24 hour race for the first time last year.

RE: Keeping money back when buying a TVR I think that in general that you dont necessarily need to do this. The technology for the RV8 models is tried and trusted, and with a decent inspection you will be fine. However, lets face it, most TVR buyers use the heart rather than the head. This tends to cloud the decision slightly and might end up with a car that isnt as perfect as it could be - Doesnt tend to be much, but it might be easier to skip over a couple of small things... In the case of the Porker - I think that in general that the model years that we are talking about tend to be sold through the dealer channels - and as a result Porsche dealers are more professional (though my experience wasnt, but I do know that this is a rare occurance). This sort of protects the buyer quite a lot and need not be a major issue. For example - how many people confirm the service intervals and ask how much the next service will be? I do now, but didnt before - only to get stung.... Cheers, Paul

Clubster; I'm sure that's the case but let's be fair buddy - for £3.50, even a full engine rebuild ain't gowna sour the proposition too much! Sh1t; I'd better stop this before Domster proscribes my existance!

Also if you did make that error and come out of the bend the wrong way no one would notice Rich...

Give him his due, that is quite funny.

A reference to the 'why can't people see TVR's thread? No, didn't think so...

Correct - No...

Couldn't agree more....

I thought the reference to the Boxter looking the same forward or backward was very funny, as a Porsche owner I could say that the TVR already looks like the "back end of a bus" (particularly the Tamora) but I won't it wouldn't be fair !!! Anyway TVRs are great cars, wouldn't want one, but I can see the appeal, it's a cheap (ish) way to get lot's of grunt& a great sound. We just won't talk about corners & electrical or mechanical matters !!

Grant, your opinion is highly valued. Just a shame it's out of date! Have a drive of a later car (Tamora, T350C) and see if it changes? Cheers... Andrew

You could but you'd be wrong, but WTF it was a joke and you clearly don't like those. Bye... R

Fabulous colour, Andrew. Looks damn fine! Btw, been meaning to ask Tam people for a while; the seats look incredibly supportive, really bucketesque. Is it the case that they do positively add to the feeling of mega 'at one with the car' handling?

Oh and DAZ - if you're around - been meaning to say all week - saw a genuine Dazmobile in Southport last weekend, crawling along in traffic so I got to oggle it in all it's glory - genuinely brutal looking bugger! I think it's those massive vents scoopages at the front that lend it a real air of menacing ground snufflability. This one had the fixed rear wing (so I guess an X-pack?) but I reckon the standard set up looks neater. Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you! Can't wait to hear how you get on against the Ultimae at Brunters! Cheers

De, an X50 car looks like any other turbo except when you see it, it will be going a bit quicker :-) The fixed rear spoiler denotes either an Aerokitted car or a GT2. The spoilers are different but both fixed. Rich

Hell's teeth, Rich - what a stable you've kept/got! How come you've got so many cars on order (or do you just have some compromising piccies of Bill Gates )? Seriously, how did you find the 355 versus the 360? And is your 996TT a 'standard' or an 'Xer?' And what's the crack with the Aston? Dribblin' DeR

: very good. liked that one. keep em coming.

De, The reason for all the cars on order is that I was so fed up of being told "ohh you cant have one of those without a 2 year wait sir" so i thought order everyhing and pick and choose when they come up. I had the 355 for about 2 months, I really wanted the 360 from the beginning but I couldnt find one that I didnt have to pay over list for so settled for the 355. It was brilliant, except for the gearbox when cold! The car sounded awesome in every way and was quick enough. Handling wise it felt heavier than the 360 does, hard to explain. The 360 is a better car in lots of ways but the sound of it wasnt quite as good as the 355 so I added a Tubi and now its the nutts. My 996TT is a non X powered variety. Rich

Did anybody watch Right Car, Wrong Car last night ? The punter's got £30K to spend so the young trendy one offers him 3 new cars, an Elise, a Z3 M (I think) and a Scooby. He loves the Elise but it sounds like a Viva, the BMW sounds nice but won't go round corners and he loves the Scoob but his girlfriend won't let him buy it , apparently she's gonna be driving the car as well. The little bald one then offers him 3 used cars, a one year old Griff 500, an NSX and the bald one's personal favourite, a Boxster. Now I didnt clock the plate so I don't know whether it was a 2.5 or a 2.7 but it definitely wasn't an S. I would have thought he could have got an S for that money or a RHD 993 or even my LHD 996 (see classifieds) :endofshamelessplug:. Age was no barrier as the NSX was 10 years old. Anyway, he didnt like the nasty Jap interior of the NSX, he loved the Griff but managed to lose it going round a wet bend at about 20 and hated the Boxster. It was his first drive of a Porsche and he said he expected so much more. In the end he chooses the Griff. I just hope they go back to him in a year and ask how he got on. So Dave, your £30K TVR is now worth £20K and you've only just about paid off the interest on your finance, you've had to get it serviced twice, you were driving a Nissan Micra for 6 weeks while the engine was replaced under warranty and your girlfriend won't go above 30 for fear of wrapping it round a tree. Are you pleased with it ? If you Tiv boys just think I'm bitter because you won, you're damn right