Engine noise/click at idle, normal ? (video + sound)

As I am taking my camera with me everywhere lately, I decided to record my engine clicks at idle, does it sound normal to you ? It goes away as soon as it revs up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-z3IUOanic after 15 warm up at idle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0AoQX31kRI after 15 minute drive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A7qXxAdN2g

Not normal.

I'd be worried. How long has it made this noise or when did you notice? What weight of oil and how much is in the engine? Did anything unusual happen prior to the noise?

chain noise?

Note: the click are only that loud when you place your head under the engine really. If you stand up behind the car you can barely hear it. Since my starter trouble , I am getting paranoid... not that I was not already paranoid before lol

Not normal. When was the last oil change and what weight did you use?

I have no idea when was the last oil change, when i bought the car, the owner told me the oil was changed recently and as I barely added 200 miles on it, I did not change it yet. Yesterday I checked the level and as it was quite above the max, I remove some and it looks quite black. Might be time for oil change, why is the recommended ? Modil 10W40 ? Here is pics of the oil removed...not sure color means anything...

That looks like it washed up in the Gulf of Mexico. Have you run the engine since you removed the excess oil?

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Define recently? I've changed engine oil after nearly 5K miles of highway driving that looked better than that. Drop the oil filter housing and pour the oil contents out into a clean drain pan. Examine carefully. Take good pics. Post pics. Since you do not know when the oil was changed I'd budget an oil/filter service now so you get back on some schedule. Mobil 1 0w-40 is factory fill and many use that oil. Nearly any major brand of synthetic oil 5w-40 or even 10w-40 oil is ok to use as long as the oil meets the minimum requirements set forth by Porsche in the car's owners manual. Sincerely, Macster.

My cats made that kind of rattling sound. No CEL but they were bad. After replacement noise was gone On my BMW it made that noise. It turned out to be sticky lifters. I had 2 oil changes done within 5,000 miles and it went away.

any recommendation for oil filter ? where to buy them ? I am very far from any dealer so I'll have to buy online. I have a an oil drain pan coming in the mail so I'll do that shortly.

Typical mail order places that are Porsche dealers include Sunset Imports in Oregon and Suncoast in Florida.

I would say it could be a sticky lifter too. Suncoast Porsche is were I order mine.

filter and plug are on order.. so I'll post another video when I get the oil changed.

I don't think that is a lifter. Before I replaced mine there was a light tapping, nothing like that. Have you tried to isolate the noise. Use a long screw driver against the various areas of the engines and hold it against your cheekbone near your ear. You will hear the clicking more clearly. This is an old mechanics trick. You can also use a stethoscope. Once you isolate it it will be easier to determine the source. It doe sound bad. I would not drive it to much, or even run it that much until you find out what it is.

argh it just sucks to not have a Porsche shop anywhere close to me. I have to try to find all those things on my own It is a bit stressful. I'll put my stethoscope to work tomorrow, we'll see.

your signature line says you have an extended warranty... rev it till it dies? I have one too, but they don't cover noises, only complete failures! Sort of crazy as the noise doesn't sound good.. My 2002 has bad cats and one that has a definite rattle at idle that goes away with revs, but yours sounds different, like it is there even with revs, just a bit lighter... That oil is definitely in need of changing!

This morning I used my stethoscope to check the engine for noise, and believe it or not, but the screwdriver handle pointed to your ear, works just as good may be better for click noises. I check the engine, all check points sounded like mild regular clicks or movements. But when I checked the the catalytic converters as one message suggested earlier, The driver side was very quiet, whereas the passenger side cat. converter was making really loud click noises. I remember the previous owner telling me that one of his cat went dead and was replaced recently, I assume this is just the second fold to this story. After my sound investigation, I plugged the durametric to check for cat. values and see what I could find to confirm the sound problem. I don't know much about the proper values, but I found one that has very different data from bank1 to bank 2. The value is called 'o2 sensor voltage behind c. bank2'. That one goes up and down on bank 2, while the bank 1 stay always flat. - Can someone confirm that bank1 is the driver side ? - Any other value I can check to see if the cat is dead ? are the loud clicks the symptom of a dead cat ?

I think this is good news if it is the catalytic converter. While they are not cheap, they are a lot less than engine.

If it is a CAT, you better run to a dealer. Your 8 years is just about up! With an 03, you might have a late 02 in service date, which means that you expire in 2010! -td

Yea, bank one is driver's side. It does look like your cat is shot. The after cat O2 reading should be more or less constant (like the blue line) when the before cat O2 readnig should flutuate like in your plots. Your bank2 after cat sensor is kind of following (lagging) the before cat sensor, which means your cat is not working. Your's is '03 so maybe it's still under the federal emmision warranty. Check with the dealer. You may get lucky to get it fixed for free.

Good to know I had no idea they were warrantied I'll see if the dealer can confirm this with the serial number on the car

I thought the Twin Turbo did NOT had IMS ? no ? BUT It does sound exactly like my problem.

I'd send a sample of your oil to Blackstone Labs for analysis. Contact them and they'll send you a free test kit to mail back with an oil sample. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Just called the dealer, the catalytic converter is under that EPA warranty, I was anyway a 03' date stamped on the part. But to fall under the government warranty the check engine light (CEL) needs to be on ! such bias.. anyways last time I remove my air filter and forgot to plug back the MAF, the light came on right away, so I assume I can take care of that! When that CEL came up, a new fault code came up for the cats, but I cleared them now. As I did not want to drive with that light on the dash. Especially there is a value in the on board computer, that count the number of miles driven with the CEL on. And mine is a nice 0 Oh last thing, if it is the Cat conv. the car need to stay in the shop for a week, as they don't have any car.conv in stock !

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I checked that guy, and he posted a long thread on 6speed http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...t-noise-8.html apparently he think the noise was coming from the 'crankshaft thrust bearing', do we have same issue on the 996 non turbo ?

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i told ya it was cats Get it changed. 80% likelihood that is the culprit. It's amazing how everyone immediately jumps to IMS vs the most common failure point here - which is cats. (Do a search on this forum on catalytic converter clicking noise)

http://www.URenginesgonnablowcuztheinteretzsays-so.com Or http://www.TheIMSisthisyearsRMS.com

Couple of comments. First I guess for the dealer/EPA a "failure" is that the cat is not working, not that it rattles badly. It might be that if it rattle enough it will damage the cat enough that it will lose function. Second a cat "failure" probably is more common than an IMS failure, but really not in the same category. One effects emissions, the other can destroy the engine. So you really have to define "failure."

Oh forgot to add, with the engine off, hit the cat with your fist/rubber hammer. It should make the same rattling noise. Just another way to confirm it.

I had a 76 911S, supposedly the worst of the thermal reactor engines. Had over 120,000 miles on it when I sold it. It did have the chain tensioners collapse once on a trip to Florida, caused damage to the IMS sprocket (yes they did have IMS's) which meant the cases had to be split and a new IMS installed. But the studs never pulled. I know that the engine was finally rebuilt after 150,000 miles as I saw it at the shop. But I don't know why the rebuild was done.

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Knocking with a hammer was not very conclusive, the sound is not really different from cat1. On the other hand, I noticed that the sound is a lot louder when the engine is fully warmed up. After a drive I use the screwdriver handle to ear trick and again the sound coming from cat#2 was, without a doubt, knocking whereas the cat#1 was not making any sound. If anything, what's for sure it is on the bank#2, at least..

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I'm throwing this out there with nothing to back it up but there's no moving parts on the cat right? I think you noise is telegraphing into the cats from Bank 2

yeah i might get back under the car this weekend and try to poke a little more to the engine with the screwdriver/ear thing, trying to make sure the clicks are not coming from somewhere else. I just hate to get under the car too far, and so far I have not place the screwdriver onto the transmission, will do it this weekend.

The only thing near your transmission that is turning while in neutral is the throwout bearing. That is not a throw out bearing noise. (unless your bearing is square.)

I doubt it is but man that sounds like a spun rod bearing. That hollow metallic sound makes me think that. But, it is a little too fast I believe to be that.

If it was a spun rod bearing I would think you would hear the noise with the screwdriver trip pretty equally on both sides. You should be able to further isolate the noise by listening at the cat and then at the head. If you don't hear the noise as clearly at the head as at the cat then it is probably the cat. There are not supposed to be any moving parts in the cat (or the mufflers) but the internal baffles do come loose and make these type of rattle. Not al that uncommon.

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I had a very similar noise: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-not-ims.html

Did you try the 'screwdriver to ear' trick ? I did point the screwdriver onto my headers today, the clicking noise is quite similar to when it is pointed onto the catalytic converter.... Can the noise propagate from the cat. to the header ? Did anyone had this problem and try to listen to it that way ? I 'feel' that the noise is a little lower on the header than the cat. but the volume is pretty close +- 15%. I really cannot tell.

One more thing, if I decide to go to the dealer to make them replace the catalytic converter under the EPA wanrranty I assume I have to remove my FisterD mufflers ? or they are ok with that kind of thing... I think I know the answer but I wonder if your dealer ever gave you crap for this mod.

With the CEL light on and the cat efficiency code you cleared previously the dealer would "love" to replace the cat at full price and charge off to warranty! After clearing the code, my CEL will come on after driving, sometimes not for a few days but it will come on... It is really hard to "armchair" diagnose a car from a video, but a cat rattle "usually" has a sound rattly-gravely sound that will often clear with higher revs... If you warranty covers all internally lubricated parts, I would drive it until the CEL light reappears or the egine grenades...doesn't sound comforting, but unless you are willing to pay the price for a partial teardown you will have to wait for one or the other to have it covered! My first cat went bad 45 days outside of the 8 year inservice date so the dealer told me I was out of luck! **and your warranty should cover a rental, so you could be the proud driver of a late model Toyota camry or some other fleet car for a week or more!

I had a similar noise. My first thought was a bad lifter. It was difficult to tell where it was coming from. (I used an electronic stethoscope) Sometimes it was more noisy that others. Turned out to be a VERY loose spark plug. It was backing itself out. Middle plug on passenger side. The rest were barely hand tight. Appeared to be original plugs a 100k. Nice and quiet now and runs better (did alot of other upgrades at same time) https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ed-engine.html

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yes, but the noise is not coming from the headers, that is a mechanical noise and it could be coming from the exhaust manifold end or even further upstream... Hopefully it is downstream (bad cats), but I had a bad cat and didnt make any noise at all.

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Mine didn't either. I put the car on the lift and with the listening device, it appeared to be coming from many areas of the engine - could not pinpoint. I would not of guessed plugs based on the noise. And this is a common problem on these cars.

You said the oil was in need of changing, change to a heavy oil like 10w 40. Add one quart of lucas stabilizer if the noise lessens the you know you've an engine problem if it's the cats this will not help.

Phil, I think I like the loose spark plugs theory too. Have you checked them yet?

I ordered a new set of plugs and I soon as I get them, I'll get to it. Yesterday I checked them out but I did not have the proper tool to screw/unscrew them, so I'll go today to autozone to try buying a spark plug tool that fits. It is quite narrow in there. By the way, I see the ignition plug have blue glue on them, is it important to add some ? what brand you guys recommend ? Because I see the screw are like 1/5 of a trun to lock.

All you need is a dab of anitseize for the threads and some dielectric grease for the contact on the top of the plug. It doesnt really matter what brand.

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Do not use antiseize on the spark plug threads. Some folks hav ethese plugs backing out on there own over time. Antiseize allows you to overtighten the plug (if you don't use a torque wrench, very hard to get one in there). I repeat, do not use antiseize.

Sounds like a lifter or possibly a wrist pin bushing to me.. Lifters have 4 distinct sounds when they go bad, one of them is similar to this. Most of the time lifters are just dirty, due to their design they accumulate a lot of gunk

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I don't agree. Go ahead and dont use it then, once you get a spark plug stuck in the head you will think twice next time. And yes you can use a torque wrench on the spark plugs, i did it a few weeks ago.

The durametric sent me a cat conv. efficiency error code this time around. I assume this is the message about cat conv dead ? which would match my bank2 clicking noise, right ? Now I just need to figure how to trigger the CEL light so I can get this replaced under warranty I was thinking of pulling the MAF, or is there another way ?

check your cel light bulb.... that should be a triggered cel.

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Mine was out...

yes bang this morning as I was heading to an autocross, the CEL light came out. that is sorted our for the cats then

How many miles on the car and how often was the car left to rott. I figure way low miles it might be varnish causing sticking. Exhaust leaks will sound like lifters and such and I don't think the long range life of spark plugs is geared to guys that want top power and performance. Even flattened lobes might be your problem or sticky lifters. Even combinations are possible. Best bet is change the oil and if it were me coming back to the car after a long sit I'd change the oil again after a week or two of spirited drivings. The plugs well be sure to keep tack of which plug comes from each cylinder and diagnose further for where bad performance from valves might be happening. The nasty thing to listen to is me wondering if valves got fried and or warped. Heat will also take the rebound out of springs leading to floating valves and the train clanking like that untill higher revs where things just float away. Anything is possible. For sure change the oil and check what the plugs will tell you.

so its the catalytic converters?

I will be bringing the car to the dealer soon for a replacement, I'll be sure then But so far, I have a CEL light on and a cat conv error on my durametric.

are you sure its not the oxygen sensors?

I am not sure of anything just yet... but considering it is noisy as hell, I assume catalytic converter, we'll see.

I wanted to post an updated on this. Today I went to Porsche to check out my cat. converter and it was indeed dead. The thing was replaced under the special cat.converter warranty of 8 years. It did not cost me a dime, parts and labor paid by this 8 year warranty. I want to add that my car is not a cpo, there is a special warranty on catalytic converter specifically, as other members mentioned here earlier in the thread. With the new catalytic converter, the noise is completely gone ! I can't believe that part could create so much noise out of the blue ! Only one small thing, since they changed the cat.conv, sometime I ear a squeequing noise when going over bumps. It happen rarely, I assume they did put a clamp to close to another pipe or something is not fitter as it should. Over my 6 hour drive back from Dallas I could not hear it at all, so it is very small but still, for a Porsche Dealer (Park Place Dallas). they should be able to get those things right on ! anyways at least one thing done and free for me

Phil, good for you! Yesm teh 8 year cat warranty is a DOT requirement for all cars sold in the US.

Congrats and smooth deal Philooo. I bet everybody wants that pricing luck. Might as well let the dealer know about the rubbing noise so he can prevent paying for another cat replacement when a hole gets rubbed through it.

Yay for fixes!

After a little drive with the noise I went back to the dealer to show the service advisor, lucky for me at the time the noise was constant at idle. So he ask a tech to look at the car. Unfortunately the noise could not be reproduced, they tighten up a couple nuts but could not find the problem again. So after that, they gave me the car back. I'll check it myself...

yep...mine makes the exact same sound and my durametric is giving me the same codes... Porsche dealer has a new cat on order for me....fully warrantied