URGENT - Need help with pricing on this 911

I have found a 2002 Carrera on a dealer lot that has never been titled. Here is the information about the car as it was delivered from the factory: Standard Equipment: Rear spoiler (retractable) 17-inch Carrera II wheels Electric tilt/sliding sunroof 3-spoke sport steering wheel Telescopic steering column Side airbags Seatbelt pre-tensioners and belt-force limiters Automatic full climate control with charcoal filter Power windows w/one-touch up and down Power outside mirror left & right, heated Alarm system w/LED warning lights Key-activated Immobilizer w/central locking AM/FM cassette stereo w/anti-theft coding Lockable glove box Integrated two-stage cupholder Standard on-board computer Additional Equipment: XAG - Carrera Rear Spoiler Y05 - Brake/Shifter Carbon/Aluminum XSY - Seat Belts - Speed Yellow XSA - Sport Seats Painted To Match P77 - Leather Sport Seats P02 - Technic Package 476 - Porsche Stability Management C02 - U.S. Standard/Emissions 411 - 18" Lt Alloy Carrera Wheel 030 - Special Chassis Rigidly Tuned X76 - Flared Rocker Panels XME - Rear Ctr Cons Painted Extr Clr M6A - Black Mats - Porsche lettering 425 - Rear Window Wiper MSRP Price: $83830 Now that isn't what they want for the car since it is now over a year old, it has never been titled and has only 25 miles on it. HOWEVER, they've made 2 changes to the car. Change #1 - They swapped the Carrera 5 spoke wheels for yellow painted turbo style wheels (according to the sales guy they traded with a SY Cab that the owner wanted the 5 spokes) - Invoice price is about $100 more for the yellow wheels, but to be honest I like the lightweight 5 spokes better. Change #2 - They removed the rear spoiler (a $3400 option) by removing the rear deck lid and swapping it with another car that had the standard rear deck lid with spoiler that raises up. Invoice price on the car as shipped in 2002 was $72,988, I figure that by removal of the spoiler they in effect lowered that invoice price by $2900 (price of spoiler invoice) but to be fair from an arguments sake they added $100 in cost for the other wheels so in all $2800 less, or roughly $70,000 as it sits now. Of course the dealer doesn't see it this way and they don't have a spoiler to put back on nor do they have any other SY cars with Carrera 5 spoke wheels to swap out the wheels with. My question is what would be a "fair" price for this car? I looked up used 2002 911's on Cars.com and they ranged from $63K-75K depending on options, mileage, etc. Shipping on the car to me in a covered carrier would be about $900 or I could fly out and drive it back, either way is an added expense (950 miles away). Here are pictures of the car as it sits now: <img src="http://www.smiley.net/files/1049.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://www.smiley.net/files/1049.1.JPG" alt=" - " /> <a href="http://www.smiley.net/files/1049.2.JPG[/IMG]" target="_blank">http://www.smiley.net/files/1049.2.JPG[/IMG]</a> Here are some pics of the car as it was delivered: <img src="http://paramount.porschedealer.com/dealerimages/10859_2.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://paramount.porschedealer.com/dealerimages/10859_1.jpg" alt=" - " /> <img src="http://paramount.porschedealer.com/dealerimages/10859_3.jpg" alt=" - " /> Keep in mind that for the purpose of a loan or lease, that banks, etc. will still treat this as a used car even though it has never been titled. I'd like to make a decision soon, but I want to make sure that my calculations are accurate and get some recommendations from experts here as to what a fair price should be. Thanks in advance!

Beautiful car (except for the wheels) Just bought a 4S with similar options. I would definitely try to get the car a few thousand less than invoice since its been sitting on the lot for more than a year already. It's in the dealers best interest to move it.

A couple thoughts: You should pay no more than $70K for this car as it sits now without the rear spoiler. Secondly, I just bought an '02 untitled from the dealer which had an inservice date of 2-02. The car only had 1400 miles on it, but since it had not been titled, I was offered new car financing rates. Obviously, you would be at a disadvantage on a lease, because of the lower residual values on an '02. Lastly, that's a whole lot of SY for my tastes with those painted wheels! It probably would have worked better on a cab where at least the top would have been black.

I bought a 2001 C2 in December, 2002. The 02's had been out for a while and I knew that the car had been sitting in the showroom since the summer. The list price was about $82k and the dealer sold it to me for about $68k. Just under what Kelly Blue Book showed as the dealer's cost. Obviously, I recommend something around "dealer cost". I got new car financing.

The market for that car is EXTREMELY limited, thus why it is still on the lot. I would shoot for at least $6K under modified invoice (the reduced one after the subtracted options are taken into consideration) and I would not even consider paying for the yellow wheel option, they would turn off even the most devote SY lover. Take them for 'free' or ask the dealer to restore them to delivery spec. It is a beautiful car but if you have any thoughts on (easily) selling it, watch out, finding a buyer will be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Each year that a new model year comes out and the old model year sits, it reduces the price under invoice to 5%. With the 04's coming out by August, I would say, you can get the car for $6-$8k under invoice. I mean you can get an 03 with similar options for invoice. In a few months when the 04's come out, those same 03's will have to be sold under invoice. I would stay away from the 02 and wait for an 04 which i guarantee, if these economic conditions continue, you will still be able to get $6-$8k off sticker on an 04 and the residuals are much higher making your payment less -Lou

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by SkyMast: <strong>The market for that car is EXTREMELY limited, thus why it is still on the lot. I would shoot for at least $6K under modified invoice (the reduced one after the subtracted options are taken into consideration) and I would not even consider paying for the yellow wheel option, they would turn off even the most devote SY lover. Take them for 'free' or ask the dealer to restore them to delivery spec. It is a beautiful car but if you have any thoughts on (easily) selling it, watch out, finding a buyer will be like finding a needle in a haystack.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't have any thoughts of reselling it, but I agree even though I love SY, the wheels are too much. So if I read your recommendation correctly you are saying to offer $63-65K depending on how "invoice" is figured.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by LSM: <strong>Each year that a new model year comes out and the old model year sits, it reduces the price under invoice to 5%. With the 04's coming out by August, I would say, you can get the car for $6-$8k under invoice. I mean you can get an 03 with similar options for invoice. In a few months when the 04's come out, those same 03's will have to be sold under invoice. I would stay away from the 02 and wait for an 04 which i guarantee, if these economic conditions continue, you will still be able to get $6-$8k off sticker on an 04 and the residuals are much higher making your payment less -Lou</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">LSM, I'm not doubting you, but if you can show me where to get an 03 for invoice, please show me, I haven't been able to find one! If by invoice you mean the dealer's original invoice as equipped, that would mean a price between $64-66K. Here are the residual figures from the leases they quoted me, although I can do better through leasecompare.com Lease factors for 36 months are .00268, 48 and 60 months are .00238. Residuals are as follows: 36-$44681.25, 48-$40156.25, and 60-$36775. I hear you about waiting for the 04's, but although residuals will be higher, sticker will be higher too, so the difference between the two, or the amount leased may still be about the same, although with a 03 I priced out the lease was going to be about $150 more a month than what this 02 would shake out to be and that's because of options, etc. Is there a good source for pulling new car inventory from Porsche dealers around the country that might help me spot an O3 that could potentially be a better deal?

-Lou[/qb][/QUOTE]Is there a good source for pulling new car inventory from Porsche dealers around the country that might help me spot an O3 that could potentially be a better deal?[/QB][/QUOTE] Sure. Get on the Porsche AG website, use the dealer locator to go to individual dealer pages, click "New Car" inventory, then "911". Search dealers closest first, then fan out. Some dealers are much better than others at keeping their site up to date, so the information varies in accuracy.

Nothing beats calling around. Do as CAndrew said and check the Porsche site but also call. I'm sure if you call around enough you will find an 03 close to invoice with similar options to what you want. Those yellow wheels are definately not my taste.

seriously those wheels are fugly. go on <a href="http://www.edmunds.com" target="_blank">www.edmunds.com</a> and do the fmv pricing it is always the most accurate.

Hey guys I agree the yellow wheels aren't my bag baby, so I'd have to figure in to the price what it would cost me to get a set of Carerra 5 spoke wheels if I don't get them to do a swap. I have checked around to all of the Porsche dealerships within 500 miles of me and have found about 8 SY 911's, C2s C4Ss and a Targa. None of the dealers want to come close to Invoice on a C4S, the Targa hasn't gotten back to me yet, and a couple want 2K over Invoice on the C2's. Maybe these guys aren't feeling the pain enough yet??? Maybe later this summer??? I like the C4S because I like the wide body and the tail light treatment, but most of them are 85-88K making Invoice at 76-78K, which means 10K more than what this 2002 C2 would be going for. I think I just need some more creative financing or a dealer who is willing to deal closer to invoice on a 2003 car, or both really. The advantage to the 2002 car is that some or all of the depreciation can be lumped onto the dealer whereas with a 2003 I'd be taking the depreciation hit in the next year and have a higher price to deal with. Suggestions? (BTW, thanks for the help so far!)

Jimbo8351 bought a 2001 C2 in 2002 that was retailing at $82K for $68K. I bought a 2001 C2 in 2002 that was retailing at $78K for $64K. By that (highly suspicious but what the heck) formula, a 2002 bought in 2003 retailing for $84 should go for $70K. Becuz of those wheels though, they should just sell it to you for $68 so that you can buy some nice Kinesis wheels and get this baby looking good

The 2003 C2 inventory is getting thin and production or order taking was stopped over a month ago....so now it is wait for a 2004 and the dealers are selling off that "wait".....I had a deposit on a '03 C2 with a msrp of $79,000 and my price was dealer invoice plus $750.00...no fees etc. Due to a family issue, I had to back out....I called a few weeks ago and the car was still there....since my deposit had been refunded, the price had climbed to invoice plus $3,000 for that Porsche or any other '03 that struck my fancy I know of your dealer... I would point out it is been dealer vandalized ( if you buy it, make sure they adjust the window sticker for you ) and make a clean offer.... adjusted dealer invoice less 8% to 10% and they absorb the closed shipping costs....this likely what they will get, if not more, if they ship it to the monthly High Line auction I would ignore the wheel issue; it makes it cleaner I would put a 24 hour fuse on the offer I would offer a wire transfer Remember being out of town gives you a real advantage....word doesn't get out in their backyard...they are motivated to sell....you may need to jump over the sales consultant and go right to the GM, if necessary... By the way, the '00 C4 996 Millennium I sold last summer, was sold new by this dealer...some of the guys used to be with Hendricks Porsche! Good Luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

Berkley, Feel free to email me privately about this dealer if necessary, you'll find my contact info at my website if I didn't list it here. Using your formula I would take Invoice - $72988 and subtract the vandalism (I like that term) to arrive at $70,188. From here take 8-10% off. 8% would be $5615, and 10% 7019. Giving a final price of $65,573 at 8% to $63,169. Leasecompare gives leasing figure from $684/mo - 63mo to $831/mo for a $39 mo, the middle road of $743 for 48 months. That's certainly "do-able". I've resigned myself to creating a large spreadsheet for each and every car with all features, pricing, etc. so I can cross compare.

Try Stoddard Imports in Ohio. I bought my car from them over the phone and they gave me invoice plus 1000.00 new...

A note about the wheels: You can get them refinished (repainted) at Wheel Enhancements for $180 each.

Keep calling more dealers until you find what you want at your price!

I was looking for used c4 cabs recently, called Beverly Hills porsche (they had a few used ones) and they offered me a new one pretty close to invoice. According to there website: beverly-hills.porschedealer.com they have some speed yellow MY02 coupes listed under New Car Inventory. Might be worth a call.