Cayman R vs 718 GT4 - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

At a local OPC today, I went with my son and we showed an interest in a 2021 718 Cayman GT4 and 2011 Cayman R. Though we were not able to test drive the cars, they were switched on for us, I was surprised how much better the exhaust note for Cayman R was compared to the 718 GT4, both outside and inside the cars. Is that the usual experience for others. Is Cayman R also a better backroad car compared to the 718 GT4. I know on tracks, 718 GT4 would be better. Where does 981 GT4 stand in all this?

Well I own both an R and a 718GT4 and yes the R sounds way better in every possible way especially with the optional sports exhaust. Blame the Petrol Particulate Filter on the GT4. As far as a back roads car, that’s a more difficult question. An R in good health is a lovely, sweet handling well balanced little thing. The GT4 is a fair bit quicker, and a much more solid, heavy feeling, bigger feeling thing. Fundamentally though in outright terms they are very similar, good grip, nice balance, pivot around the middle sort of feeling. The newer car is a lot more modern inside although it is also still very dated compared to the latest sports cars. The 981GT4 is more similar to the 718GT4 that the R. The 981GT4 has the worst engine of the 3 by some margin. Drive them both and decide if one is worth twice the price of the other.

LamedonM said: At a local OPC today, I went with my son and we showed an interest in a 2021 718 Cayman GT4 and 2011 Cayman R. Though we were not able to test drive the cars, they were switched on for us, I was surprised how much better the exhaust note for Cayman R was compared to the 718 GT4, both outside and inside the cars. Is that the usual experience for others. Is Cayman R also a better backroad car compared to the 718 GT4. I know on tracks, 718 GT4 would be better. Where does 981 GT4 stand in all this? I’ve owned x2 Cayman Rs (one currently) and a 981 GT4. Firstly, both are fabulous cars. The GT4 felt more grown up, powerful, solid and heavy. I found it needed a proper set up to remove some of the inherent understeer. The clutch pedal was on the heavy side and the gearing too long IMHO. The R is more delicate, smaller and up-on-its toes. It now feels like a modern classic, in a good way.

LamedonM said: At a local OPC today, I went with my son and we showed an interest in a 2021 718 Cayman GT4 and 2011 Cayman R. Though we were not able to test drive the cars, they were switched on for us, I was surprised how much better the exhaust note for Cayman R was compared to the 718 GT4, both outside and inside the cars. Is that the usual experience for others. Is Cayman R also a better backroad car compared to the 718 GT4. I know on tracks, 718 GT4 would be better. Where does 981 GT4 stand in all this? All modern Porsches have been restricted by regulations that impact the exhaust volume/note/roar. The R did not have the same level of regulations at the time. The 981 not so much as the 718 has to abide by, therefore many with a priority on sonics will prioritise the 981GT4 over the 718Gt4. I can't say I have driven both, but as an R owner it sure is nimble and all you could ever wish for on backroads. Its size is perfect for backroads and ground clearance. The R is a classic whereas the 718 is generic. Th R has analog mechanical steering, whereas 718 is electronic steering - some will say this is a big thing, can't claim otherwise. Presume that is the Red R you have seen. That is a great PDK R but note it has no AC. Main R thread for ref https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Julian your thread has arrived! Edit: he beat me to it

Rojibo said: Julian your thread has arrived! Edit: he beat me to it

bigmowley said: Well I own both an R and a 718GT4 and yes the R sounds way better in every possible way especially with the optional sports exhaust. Blame the Petrol Particulate Filter on the GT4. As far as a back roads car, that’s a more difficult question. An R in good health is a lovely, sweet handling well balanced little thing. The GT4 is a fair bit quicker, and a much more solid, heavy feeling, bigger feeling thing. Fundamentally though in outright terms they are very similar, good grip, nice balance, pivot around the middle sort of feeling. The newer car is a lot more modern inside although it is also still very dated compared to the latest sports cars. The 981GT4 is more similar to the 718GT4 that the R. The 981GT4 has the worst engine of the 3 by some margin. Drive them both and decide if one is worth twice the price of the other. I agree with the R / 981 GT4 comparison ... but the 981 engine can be opened up very nicely to 430bhp and 340 ft/lbs whilst removing the hole in the torque curve, the 718 engine resolved most of Porsche's hobbling of the 981GT4 but this engine still hasn't been used in the GT4 Clubsport ... Of course if you aren't planning high speed runs the revised final drive which is now available for the 981GT4 offers more engagement and acceleration ... for anybody wishing to experience the practicality at motorway speeds just cruise in 5th rather than 6th, my car is actually more comfortable at 75-80 in 5th than 6th due to a resonance in my M&M (Manthey) exhaust ... but it costs a few mpg.

Porsche have dampened down the external exhaust noise on the 718 GT4 by the gpf yes BUT the car makes up for this in spades by far greater internal induction sound across the superb increased 8k rev range which is really all that matters. Just like the 992 GT3 in fact. Exhaust modifications are available but quite frankly unless you are into ott and rather farty external exhaust sound this is uneccessary and mine is stock. A truly superb contemporary Porsche GT especially at the price.

Thanks All. I am a restless soul. Myself and my son have just completed driver's driving of both my BMW M6Comp and Cayman 718S (with almost all options including PTV, PASM, PSE, sport chromo, PDLS and 2 tone leather apart from adaptive cruise control and reverse camera) and he says the V8 of BMW is far far superior to Cayman 718S. Also it makes more financial sense for me to hold on to the BMW M6 Though the engine sound of the 718CS might not be the best, I usually drive it in Sport mode that activates loud exhaust note and pops and bangs and driving it in sport+ leads to magical handling in corners. I must confess the BMW is not far off in corners either. I thought I would not want it, but I still want to tick off the flat 6 of Porsche. Would anybody part exchange their highly optioned 2016 718CS for 2011 Cayman R (without AC as just pointed out) PDK with bucket seat and PCCB?

av185 said: Porsche have dampened down the external exhaust noise on the 718 GT4 by the gpf yes BUT the car makes up for this in spades by far greater internal induction sound across the superb increased 8k rev range which is really all that matters. Just like the 992 GT3 in fact. Exhaust modifications are available but quite frankly unless you are into ott and rather farty external exhaust sound this is uneccessary and mine is stock. A truly superb contemporary Porsche GT especially at the price. My exhaust is 3db quieter than standard, is worth a genuine 10bhp, and sounds magnificent. No farts outside the car ... it's only on the inside that it can get farty

baronbennyt said: The GT4... gearing too long IMHO. The manual gearbox in all three cars is the same, minor gearing differences are present due to wheel/tyre combos and final drive changes but they're pretty much the same give or take a few mph when comparing like for like. The headline differences in max in-gear speeds are because the newer cars rev higher than the previous model - more rpm in each gear, so more speed in each gear. If you have a problem with the gearing of a GT4, and how that affects the engine, then you'll also have a problem with the gearing of an R. The newer cars with more torque and bhp can pull the gearing more easily so I really don't get why people seem to think the older cars have better gearing than the newer cars...

LamedonM said: Thanks All. I am a restless soul. Myself and my son have just completed driver's driving of both my BMW M6Comp and Cayman 718S (with almost all options including PTV, PASM, PSE, sport chromo, PDLS and 2 tone leather apart from adaptive cruise control and reverse camera) and he says the V8 of BMW is far far superior to Cayman 718S. Also it makes more financial sense for me to hold on to the BMW M6 Though the engine sound of the 718CS might not be the best, I usually drive it in Sport mode that activates loud exhaust note and pops and bangs and driving it in sport+ leads to magical handling in corners. I must confess the BMW is not far off in corners either. I thought I would not want it, but I still want to tick off the flat 6 of Porsche. Would anybody part exchange their highly optioned 2016 718CS for 2011 Cayman R (without AC as just pointed out) PDK with bucket seat and PCCB? is it possible though that your son has watched one too many Archie Hamilton videos? BMW is cooler to kids and his POV might be swayed by influencers pushing the M Badge kool-aid.

julian987R said: is it possible though that your son has watched one too many Archie Hamilton videos? BMW is cooler to kids and his POV might be swayed by influencers pushing the M Badge kool-aid. Not trying to boast here. My 18 year old son is an engineering student at Oxford University. I was the driver, he was the passenger when I was pushing both 718CS and M6Comp. Their interiors are similar (high quality two tone leather of similar colour), the M6 has surround cameras in addition whilst the 718CS has ventilated seats in addition. Based on his feeling regarding how they drove, sounded, accelerated, braked, the theatrics and his reactions of 'Oh my God' etc, I think he was as objective as he could be Although, I could not discount that an engineering student would have subconsciously prefer a 4.4L V8 engine to 2.5L 4 cylinder engine.

Are… are you deciding on your car purchases based on what your son prefers? Couldn’t live with a car without AC though.

Rojibo said: Are… are you deciding on your car purchases based on what your son prefers? Couldn’t live with a car without AC though. I am assuming they were shopping for his son as indeed it seems to be his POV that is most important, which is fair enough of course - a heck of a car for an 18 year old no matter which one.

Firstly, I managed to read the responses to this thread and know who was responding in a few cases without reading the names. It feels like I've finally earned my PH Cayman section wings A lot of people are saying about the 987 being smaller which I previously thought was the case as well. According to my research all versions are about the same width with the newer versions (981 and 718) being lower in height. The newer versions are longer however. My info could be wrong, I could swear 987's were smaller! Dunc. Edited by dunc_sx on Tuesday 20th December 22:41

LamedonM said: Not trying to boast here. My 18 year old son is an engineering student at Oxford University.. Brookes or actual Oxford? To answer your question, I’d go R if it was a manual. 718 GT4 won’t sound anywhere near as good but is a very good car. Either will make you happy I’d say

julian987R said: I am assuming they were shopping for his son as indeed it seems to be his POV that is most important, which is fair enough of course - a heck of a car for an 18 year old no matter which one. I dunno I’m pretty confused, I’d also suggest OP may not be cornering quick enough in the Cayman if it seems to handle the same as the M6, isn’t that 600Kg heavier?

PGNSagaris said: LamedonM said: Not trying to boast here. My 18 year old son is an engineering student at Oxford University.. Brookes or actual Oxford? To answer your question, I’d go R if it was a manual. 718 GT4 won’t sound anywhere near as good but is a very good car. Either will make you happy I’d say To answer the questions: The son goes to (actual) University of Oxford (Christchurch college) the car is for myself, not for my son

Rojibo said: julian987R said: I am assuming they were shopping for his son as indeed it seems to be his POV that is most important, which is fair enough of course - a heck of a car for an 18 year old no matter which one. I dunno I’m pretty confused, I’d also suggest OP may not be cornering quick enough in the Cayman if it seems to handle the same as the M6, isn’t that 600Kg heavier? As I said the Cayman is quicker in cornering but the M6GCCompetition is not far off and on rolling acceleration, the M6GComp is noticeably faster than the the Cayman. It is not an ordinary M6 it is a stiffer, lowered 600Hp version of an M6 Attached is the comparison of their performances on tracks from Zeperf

So like, weird pub top trumps and Cambridge son opinions aside, which one do you actually like to drive? Ones a barge and the other changes direction on a knifedge. Where’s any of this going

How do you compare a BMW M6Comp and a 718 GT4 when they are two completely different designed cars. Not least one being 2+2 and the other a 2-seater? Your purchase should be based on what priorities you set. If it helps my chum also owns a Porsche. He considered a BMW, but to him that would be a backward step, its a mainstream car manufacturer and wouldn't help him dating women 25+ years younger than himself. BTW he's 59.

LamedonM said: As I said the Cayman is quicker in cornering but the M6GCCompetition is not far off and on rolling acceleration, the M6GComp is noticeably faster than the the Cayman. It is not an ordinary M6 it is a stiffer, lowered 600Hp version of an M6 Attached is the comparison of their performances on tracks from Zeperf In answer to your original question on where does the 981Gt4 fit into things, this might be a worthwhile watch as they touch upon the noise factor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zUJae9DSCQ and this video on the R "without peer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUS3cem11fs and this chap seems quite content with an R https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6nzdpYD4Ck

julian987R said: In answer to your original question on where does the 981Gt4 fit into things, this might be a worthwhile watch as they touch upon the noise factor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zUJae9DSCQ and this video on the R "without peer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUS3cem11fs and this chap seems quite content with an R https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6nzdpYD4Ck Not posting the video with your R?

Having owned both. I would pick a CR for road only use and the GT4 if doing trackdays regularly.

Had a Cayman R for 6 months and now have a 981 Spyder Cayman R is a great car but I like the extra power & torque of the 3.8. I don't really notice hydraulic vs EPAS as I am not a driving god. The 981 noise (with standard PSE) is simply epic, much richer than the 987 and much better than any newer Porsche (all have filters) Personal taste but I have found in favour of Boxster not Cayman...simply the roof off amplifies all sensations and makes every drive more of an event. Henry Catchpole youtube for an idea (Spyder in the mountains) Cayman R is possibly underbraked as standard for B road blasting or track (plus they look puny behind the wheels) Finally 718 GT4 rides much harder and is therefore more hardcore esp on gnarly roads To me the choice would be driven by ££. With a budget of £45k I'd happily own a CR...if you had £65k then I don't think a 981 GT4 is a 50pc better car but it is also newer, nicer to sit in, and faster..... age old horses for courses. As your engineer son will understand, as the Boxster came first and then was roofed to create the Cayman, its a fairly stiff car and I doubt 90pc of people would notice the slightly extra torsional stiffness (or handling benefit) of a Cayman on a public road Also just to bring up the spectre of Mr D / Demon.... the dreaded "£10k refresh" cant be far off on a 10-11 year old Cayman.... mainly suspension components I would think, dep on mileage

julian987R said: the M Badge kool-aid. as opposed to the R badge kool aid? i've seen a few 987s around, R and S, and i'd go for an S the wing on the R just looks out of place IMO, whereas the S for me is the best looking 987 handling and performance can't be that different?

JasonSteel said: as opposed to the R badge kool aid? i've seen a few 987s around, R and S, and i'd go for an S the wing on the R just looks out of place IMO, whereas the S for me is the best looking 987 handling and performance can't be that different? R is a genuine limited edition car, with some nice touches S is just one of thousands, without the touches. 10bhp, Alloy doors, buckets, Spyders etc (Of course there are a handful of S specified as such, but you'd be very lucky to find one, and none would have the10bhp or doors))

freedman said: R is a genuine limited edition car, with some nice touches S is just one of thousands, without the touches. 10bhp, Alloy doors, buckets, Spyders etc (Of course there are a handful of S specified as such, but you'd be very lucky to find one, and none would have the10bhp or doors)) The R isn't a genuine limited edition car either in the sense that it has special specific parts that no other ones in the range had (perhaps the doors which are marginally lighter?) and other than the badge is mechanically no different from a S. The 'nice touches' work well as a package of course but the R is little more than a modestly tarted up S. Nice car but I have to say I don't quite get why it's considered quite so special.

isaldiri said: The R isn't a genuine limited edition car either in the sense that it has special specific parts that no other ones in the range had (perhaps the doors which are marginally lighter?) and other than the badge is mechanically no different from a S. The 'nice touches' work well as a package of course but the R is little more than a modestly tarted up S. Nice car but I have to say I don't quite get why it's considered quite so special. There were only just over 200 brought to the UK, how limited do you want it to be?

I suspect almost everybody here is a Porsche fanboy. My M6GComp is also relatively rare. I am almost relatively new to Porsche ownership Now to the point and to the Porsche’s officianados: is Cayman R in the same league as 718GT4 by any parameters you could think of? If no answers, I would start a new thread Thanks All

depends how you use it. I track all my Porsche's so if you ask me, I'd never even consider the R over a GT4. If you don't ever track, then go R. Nice entry level car

freedman said: R is a genuine limited edition car, with some nice touches S is just one of thousands, without the touches. 10bhp, Alloy doors, buckets, Spyders etc (Of course there are a handful of S specified as such, but you'd be very lucky to find one, and none would have the10bhp or doors)) my comments were more to do with the whole badge koolaid comment the R badge gives you very little over the S, and like i said above, the rear wing looks out of place so for that alone i'd go with the S* you've got to really want a limited edition car to go for the R, though i do agree buckets are essential * or just take the wing off the R! Edited by JasonSteel on Thursday 22 December 12:00

PGNSagaris said: depends how you use it. I track all my Porsche's so if you ask me, I'd never even consider the R over a GT4. If you don't ever track, then go R. Nice entry level car However 10 years ago, everyone was tracking 964s A large swathe of those people then went on to track Rs Once again a lot of those went on to track GT4s I'm not really sure R v GT4 would be a genuine choice for most, given the 30k plus price difference

In 2015 I had a modified S2 exige with about 270hp. I drove it up to the local Porsche dealer and tested a Cayman R with pdk. I thought the R was boring, the engine gutless, the brakes wooden, the steering numb and walked away terribly unimpressed to buy an S3 exige. Now, in 2022, I have another S2 exige with 260hp. I went into the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago and had a test of a 718 Cayman GT4. I thought it was mega in pretty much every way and intend to buy one, with comfort seats (sue me) in Q1 2023. I'll still keep the exige though.

gashead1105 said: In 2015 I had a modified S2 exige with about 270hp. I drove it up to the local Porsche dealer and tested a Cayman R with pdk. I thought the R was boring, the engine gutless, the brakes wooden, the steering numb and walked away terribly unimpressed to buy an S3 exige. Now, in 2022, I have another S2 exige with 260hp. I went into the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago and had a test of a 718 Cayman GT4. I thought it was mega in pretty much every way and intend to buy one, with comfort seats (sue me) in Q1 2023. I'll still keep the exige though. You have spoken to me. Thanks More comments please

freedman said: I'm not really sure R v GT4 would be a genuine choice for most, given the 30k plus price difference How about R vs 981 Cayman GTS? Anyone got an opinion on that? I haven't checked prices for a while, I guess the GTS is still a few grand more on average, but close enough to be considered.

freedman said: There were only just over 200 brought to the UK, how limited do you want it to be? So would you consider stuff like the Porsche design edition/sport edition/black edition 'genuine limited edition' cars? They probably had far less numbers brought in than the 200 of the cayman R. I wouldn't even for example consider the 997.2rs as a 'genuine limited edition car' and there were only around 120-130 UK cars. Something with a numbered run like the 991R however would be.

isaldiri said: So would you consider stuff like the Porsche design edition/sport edition/black edition 'genuine limited edition' cars? They probably had far less numbers brought in than the 200 of the cayman R. I wouldn't even for example consider the 997.2rs as a 'genuine limited edition car' and there were only around 120-130 UK cars. Something with a numbered run like the 991R however would be. The others are just different spec versions of the S, the R is its own model with enough differentiators to make it obviously so. There's no genuine comparison, IMO

LamedonM said: gashead1105 said: In 2015 I had a modified S2 exige with about 270hp. I drove it up to the local Porsche dealer and tested a Cayman R with pdk. I thought the R was boring, the engine gutless, the brakes wooden, the steering numb and walked away terribly unimpressed to buy an S3 exige. Now, in 2022, I have another S2 exige with 260hp. I went into the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago and had a test of a 718 Cayman GT4. I thought it was mega in pretty much every way and intend to buy one, with comfort seats (sue me) in Q1 2023. I'll still keep the exige though. You have spoken to me. Thanks More comments please I have never heard anyone use those descriptions for the Cayman R's engine, brakes and steering. The hydraulic steering (of any 987 or 997 variant), in particular, has received very high praise from many and varied sources. The move to electric steering in the first 981/991 variants was initially slammed by reviewers but it has been subsequently improved in each iteration of the 911 and Cayman. While the Cayman R might not meet your needs/expectations as much as a 718GT4 might do, I wouldn't take the descriptions about the Cayman R made by a hard core Lotus fan as being fact because they are much at odds with the majority who have owned/driven/reviewed them.

The R is a car to be enjoyed by people who like to go about their business in a quiet and unassuming way. It’s charms are subtle but noticeable. They add up to more than just an S with a different badge. Some people are not sophisticated or skilled enough to notice or realize, that’s fine. However there are lots of other cars in the Porsche family for them to enjoy. The GT4 in both iterations is a mini masterpiece. For me the 981 is a great car, despite the lacklustre engine, the chassis and driving dynamics are spot on. The 718 improves the power train no end but in my opinion did not move the rest of the game on at all. The GT4 in both iterations is a much shoutier car, more “presence” than an R. So much more “insta” friendly, if that matters to you. That is it in a nutshell for me.

This just appeared. It is a S… just shows that platform is capable. Enjoy. Edited by TDT on Thursday 22 December 19:32

WayOutWest said: How about R vs 981 Cayman GTS? Anyone got an opinion on that? I haven't checked prices for a while, I guess the GTS is still a few grand more on average, but close enough to be considered. I was dead set on a CGTS back in early 2020, got as far as agreeing a price and making travel arrangements to drive/buy a PH’ers lovely Agate grey example. If it wasn’t for the 1st Covid lockdown I’d almost certainly have bought it. When we were allowed out to play again I re-started my search. GTS’s to my liking were rare so ended up trying a 781S, a 981 GTS and an R in the same weekend. All were very good but the car I liked least was the GTS, most surprising was the 781 (thought I’d hate it but didn’t) and knew immediately the R was for me. It felt smaller, more immediate and crucially, the most fun. A few weeks later I bought a different (even nicer) R from another PH’er and still couldn’t be happier with my choice. Edited by swanny71 on Thursday 22 December 20:24

LamedonM said: I suspect almost everybody here is a Porsche fanboy. My M6GComp is also relatively rare. I am almost relatively new to Porsche ownership Now to the point and to the Porsche’s officianados: is Cayman R in the same league as 718GT4 by any parameters you could think of? If no answers, I would start a new thread Thanks All I think you are coming at this all wrong. You are comparing apples and oranges when they are two totally different platforms and price points. When you were at the showroom couldn't you have taken them out for a spin to decide? Edited by julian987R on Thursday 22 December 21:26

I loved my CR ... it was a great car on the road and here at Spa ... Compared to my current GT4 at Donington ... Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 22 December 22:04 Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 22 December 22:06

swanny71 said: I was dead set on a CGTS back in early 2020, got as far as agreeing a price and making travel arrangements to drive/buy a PH’ers lovely Agate grey example. If it wasn’t for the 1st Covid lockdown I’d almost certainly have bought it. When we were allowed out to play again I re-started my search. GTS’s to my liking were rare so ended up trying a 781S, a 981 GTS and an R in the same weekend. All were very good but the car I liked least was the GTS, most surprising was the 781 (thought I’d hate it but didn’t) and knew immediately the R was for me. It felt smaller, more immediate and crucially, the most fun. A few weeks later I bought a different (even nicer) R from another PH’er and still couldn’t be happier with my choice. Edited by swanny71 on Thursday 22 December 20:24 Glad you’re still enjoying the R Swanny! Great car, still miss it!

ChrisW. said: I loved my CR ... it was a great car on the road and here at Spa ... Compared to my current GT4 at Donington ... Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 22 December 22:04 Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 22 December 22:06 They sure do look bigger but someone above was mentioning they are in effect the same size.

bigmowley said: The R is a car to be enjoyed by people who like to go about their business in a quiet and unassuming way. Its charms are subtle but noticeable. They add up to more than just an S with a different badge. Some people are not sophisticated or skilled enough to notice or realize, that’s fine. However there are lots of other cars in the Porsche family for them to enjoy. The GT4 in both iterations is a mini masterpiece. For me the 981 is a great car, despite the lacklustre engine, the chassis and driving dynamics are spot on. The 718 improves the power train no end but in my opinion did not move the rest of the game on at all. The GT4 in both iterations is a much shoutier car, more “presence” than an R. So much more “insta” friendly, if that matters to you. That is it in a nutshell for me. I hope all the Cayman S owners and GT4 owners are wearing bulletproof vests cos shots fired!

julian987R said: They sure do look bigger but someone above was mentioning they are in effect the same size.

Footprints are the similar, but hiplines have gone higher, bumper have filled out, and the bodies are less shrink wrapped and organic/curves looking, primarily due to pedestrian safety regulations and crash tests.

Interesting thread and it's clear that different people want different things from a car..I owned a really well modded 987 S which encouraged a friend to buy a Cayman..He plumped for a 981 GTS... He loved it and whilst I thought it was superbly built and had real sense of quality to it to me it felt bigger, I felt more removed from the driving experience, the steering lacked feel and the exhaust sounded slightly synthetic/contrived... I sold up to buy a Caterham and he's since bought a 69 fia spec 911e.. I've now gone full circle having scratched the 7 itch and am back on the hunt for something more versatile within a £37k ish max budget and have shortlisted Cayman R and Evora S... An S3 Exige would be in there but just out of reach and whilst I know the Evora is a bit bigger it's credentials appeal.. Based on my experience a 981 is not even a contender.. The only bit I struggle to get my head around is the fact I could buy my old S back for half the price of a CR or Evora S.. If you're not bothered about cache then nothing comes close for the money vs a modded 987s in my experience...I only sold it because I felt it needed an extra 50bhp, a dollop of torque and to shed 50kg which was financially uneconomical.. A CR might feel slightly more special but I don't think it would be any quicker so I think a V6 lotus of some sort might be the way forward.. I dare say if I had a bigger budget a GT4 would be my choice as its a more serious thing and I don't think should really be considered alongside/comparible vs an R or GTS PS. If any CR or Evora S owners are contemplating moving on please drop me a line.. Edited by Edmundo2 on Thursday 22 December 23:29 Edited by Edmundo2 on Thursday 22 December 23:32 Edited by Edmundo2 on Thursday 22 December 23:51

PS...Video is great. Never ceases to amaze me how fast people seem to drive stuff around the ring whilst wearing t shirts and aviators...I'd be bricking myself I think..I've hillclimbed and sprinted single seaters for ten years that are a damn site faster but always fully togged up in nomex, hans, helmet etc..Maybe I'm soft or perhaps it feels more natural when you're actually there but on video it gets me hiding behind the sofa when contemplating the potential for it to go tits up..

BrotherMouzone said: bigmowley said: The R is a car to be enjoyed by people who like to go about their business in a quiet and unassuming way. Its charms are subtle but noticeable. They add up to more than just an S with a different badge. Some people are not sophisticated or skilled enough to notice or realize, that’s fine. However there are lots of other cars in the Porsche family for them to enjoy. The GT4 in both iterations is a mini masterpiece. For me the 981 is a great car, despite the lacklustre engine, the chassis and driving dynamics are spot on. The 718 improves the power train no end but in my opinion did not move the rest of the game on at all. The GT4 in both iterations is a much shoutier car, more “presence” than an R. So much more “insta” friendly, if that matters to you. That is it in a nutshell for me. I hope all the Cayman S owners and GT4 owners are wearing bulletproof vests cos shots fired! more like blanks fired

BrotherMouzone said: bigmowley said: <snip> The GT4 in both iterations is a mini masterpiece. For me the 981 is a great car, despite the lacklustre engine , the chassis and driving dynamics are spot on. <snip> That is it in a nutshell for me. I hope all the Cayman S owners and GT4 owners are wearing bulletproof vests cos shots fired! Really? I have enjoyed my 981 GT4 immensely. The chassis is great, but far from perfect. Enough better than me that I don't feel the need to do much to it. But lacklustre engine? You got the wrong car I think. It's fabulous in power, dynamics and most noticeably, sound. I'd love a Cayman R. Might end up with one in the future. Not sure telling me either of the GT4s are unsophisticated and lack nuance makes me want a Cayman R more or less. I always saw the GT4s as Caymans for hooligans, and neither disappoints, especially the original version. For now I only have room for a 981 GT4 and newish 718 in my workshop, but if that changes, Cayman R remains high on the list of next wishes. Liam

Certainly I believe well intentioned ... It's a long way from the CI to Yorkshire, but there's nowt wrong with calling a spade a bloomin' shovel .... if it helps somebody to choose ? Drivers come in all shapes and sizes ... for me the seats in the Exige were a slip-around insecurity experience where-as the Porsche bucket seats in the CR and GT4 fit me very well.

LiamH66 said: BrotherMouzone said: bigmowley said: <snip> The GT4 in both iterations is a mini masterpiece. For me the 981 is a great car, despite the lacklustre engine , the chassis and driving dynamics are spot on. <snip> That is it in a nutshell for me. I hope all the Cayman S owners and GT4 owners are wearing bulletproof vests cos shots fired! Really? I have enjoyed my 981 GT4 immensely. The chassis is great, but far from perfect. Enough better than me that I don't feel the need to do much to it. But lacklustre engine? You got the wrong car I think. It's fabulous in power, dynamics and most noticeably, sound. I'd love a Cayman R. Might end up with one in the future. Not sure telling me either of the GT4s are unsophisticated and lack nuance makes me want a Cayman R more or less. I always saw the GT4s as Caymans for hooligans, and neither disappoints, especially the original version. For now I only have room for a 981 GT4 and newish 718 in my workshop, but if that changes, Cayman R remains high on the list of next wishes. Liam IMHO there's a lot that can be done to improve the 981 engine performance ... as there can also be modifications to the standard chassis to avoid wasting front tyres ... the tragedy is that come re-sale time everybody asks A. Is it standard B. Has it ever been tracked ? Folk are funny. My GT4 is highly modified and has had one careful owner ...

Yep, the stock 981 GT4 engine isn't great - there's a big torque hole, it doesn't seem to like to rev and fiuel economy is dire. Porsche restricted it quite heavily and it really shows. The version in the Spyder, with more pop-bang tuning, is much nicer! The new engine in the 718 GT4 is very much improved and is superb. I agree with Chris on the chassis front too. Whack the camber up to what seems like crazy levels and the car feels much, much better to drive and is much more even on tyre wear. GT4s are built for corners....

julian987R said: I think you are coming at this all wrong. You are comparing apples and oranges when they are two totally different platforms and price points. When you were at the showroom couldn't you have taken them out for a spin to decide? Edited by julian987R on Thursday 22 December 21:26 The Cayman R is still being prepared before it be test driven. Although it seems my desire for another porsche is waning. Whatever it is going to be it is going to be a six pot The sweetspot in terms of engine, newness and having the creature comforts, speed and track performance seems to be 718 GTS 4.0

LamedonM said: The sweetspot seems to be 718 GTS 4.0

julian987R said: Your emoji means redcard alright? Sorry for my lack of sense of humour, does it mean you think GTS4.0 is not so good an idea Edited by LamedonM on Friday 23 December 21:02

TDT said: This just appeared. It is a S… just shows that platform is capable. Enjoy. Edited by TDT on Thursday 22 December 19:32 Totally agree with above,Loved my Cayman S and it felt more pointy at the front end than my 718GT4 on track. The brake pedal did go a little long on the S, but you get used to it and adjust. The turn in oversteer was fun on some of the quicker circuits.

MrVert said: Glad you’re still enjoying the R Swanny! Great car, still miss it! yep, still love it (even more so with a GT3 master cylinder - fixed my only real gripe).

LamedonM said: julian987R said: Your emoji means redcard alright? Sorry for my lack of sense of humour, does it mean you think GTS4.0 is not so good an idea Edited by LamedonM on Friday 23 December 21:02 Not sure what Julian means by it, but I've had a new Cayman GTS 4.0 on order since late September. Given my apparent lack of taste in Porsches, probably best to consider carefully before duplicating any errors. (Just for clarity, I'm kidding. I honestly think it will make a great everyday road car, so I'd better find a way of affording it when the time comes...) Liam

ChrisW. said: . My GT4 is highly modified and has had one careful owner ... Chris, enjoyed the 944 Turbo Cup article. Didn’t fully appreciate its provenance that day at Donny with RMA in Oct.

LamedonM said: julian987R said: Your emoji means redcard alright? Sorry for my lack of sense of humour, does it mean you think GTS4.0 is not so good an idea Edited by LamedonM on Friday 23 December 21:02 I am only jesting, only as we started with the R vs GT4 and seem to have settled for something else. But hey, the GTS4 gets amazing reviews, they can't all be wrong ... unlike me!

PGNSagaris said: ChrisW. said: . My GT4 is highly modified and has had one careful owner ... Chris, enjoyed the 944 Turbo Cup article. Didn’t fully appreciate its provenance that day at Donny with RMA in Oct. Thanks, it is a great car and I felt lucky for it to participate in this article ... and I've loved people seeing it and riding in it at the mainly Porsche track days that I've done ... Having tracked the 944 this last season I now need a pair of front discs which I am trying to keep standard ... they are still fine for road but the discs are now cracking quite badly around the drilled holes and Porsche don't have the motorsport items at the moment. So I may have to look further afield ... I have the GT4 lined up again for this year

boxsey said: LamedonM said: gashead1105 said: In 2015 I had a modified S2 exige with about 270hp. I drove it up to the local Porsche dealer and tested a Cayman R with pdk. I thought the R was boring, the engine gutless, the brakes wooden, the steering numb and walked away terribly unimpressed to buy an S3 exige. Now, in 2022, I have another S2 exige with 260hp. I went into the local Porsche dealer a few weeks ago and had a test of a 718 Cayman GT4. I thought it was mega in pretty much every way and intend to buy one, with comfort seats (sue me) in Q1 2023. I'll still keep the exige though. You have spoken to me. Thanks More comments please I have never heard anyone use those descriptions for the Cayman R's engine, brakes and steering. The hydraulic steering (of any 987 or 997 variant), in particular, has received very high praise from many and varied sources. The move to electric steering in the first 981/991 variants was initially slammed by reviewers but it has been subsequently improved in each iteration of the 911 and Cayman. While the Cayman R might not meet your needs/expectations as much as a 718GT4 might do, I wouldn't take the descriptions about the Cayman R made by a hard core Lotus fan as being fact because they are much at odds with the majority who have owned/driven/reviewed them. I'm not sure how you can compare an s2 exige to any other production car on the road with carpets and a stereo. What I will say is a standard 987 R with road tyres will feel quite tame compared to a 718 GT4 which ship with sticky Cup2 tyres right - especially if its a nice warm dry day. The tyres will make a big difference here. One of these Porsche cars is a lightly modified limited production road car. The other is a proper GT product.

boxsey said: Having owned both. I would pick a CR for road only use and the GT4 if doing trackdays regularly. Forgive me if this is off-point as I’ve not read the whole thread but Boxsey is on the money here….. If you want to drive on the road exclusively and not lose your licence don’t buy the gt4 - unless you like going to club meets and cars and coffee etc…. The R is hands down a better road car - there’s a few of us have been down the air-cooled - Cayman R - GT4 route and I think we would all agree the post above. The GT4 (imho) is overkill for the road, too long geared and with accurate steering which is numb compared with the R (on the road), however if you want to go fast on track there is no comparison, the GT4 wins easily. I have also been lucky enough to own both. I’ll go back and read the whole thread now……

boxsey said: Having owned both. I would pick a CR for road only use and the GT4 if doing trackdays regularly. Forgive me if this is off-point as I’ve not read the whole thread but Boxsey is on the money here….. If you want to drive on the road exclusively and not lose your licence don’t buy the gt4 - unless you like going to club meets and cars and coffee etc…. The R is hands down a better road car - there’s a few of us have been down the air-cooled - Cayman R - GT4 route and I think we would all agree the post above. The GT4 (imho) is overkill for the road, too long geared and with accurate steering which is numb compared with the R (on the road), however if you want to go fast on track there is no comparison, the GT4 wins easily. I have also been lucky enough to own both. I’ll go back and read the whole thread now……

The other thing that I notice between my R and my GT4 is the noise. The GT4 is a noisy beast but not in a particularly nice way. Lots of belt noise, tyre noise and drone. The R is a much nicer noise, the engine especially is much more tuneful. Back to back it’s very noticeable.

What I find refreshing about the 718 GT4 is the charismatic variable induction noises across the rev range within the cabin. Not in the same pure way as the pre gpf 991.2 GT3 of course but still interesting. In a world of increasingly contrived and frankly embarrassing and needless farty brapp external exhaust sounds on many relatively expensive cars annoying onlookers this is clearly a good thing.

Are we R induces more emotion than 718 GT4?

LamedonM said: Are we R induces more emotion than 718 GT4? Give it a few years, when most new car sales are for electric ones, and they'll all induce about as much emotion as one another. We are enjoying the tail end of a golden era while picking between such capable, inspiring and enjoyable sports cars! But yes, I think you are right, cars get better as time goes on, but the older models induce more emotion. I think the R induces more emotion in me than the 718 GT4, and that the 981 GT4 sits somewhere between the two. 981 GT4 sounds good though, better from outside than in the cabin. A friend took a video of my one leaving a corner and travelling up a straight at a track day last year, and I was quite surprised just how good it sounded! Liam

I have found a very short video clip recording the sound of the GT4 on the pit straight at Donington ... it's a 1.4mb MP4 file ... any idea on how to upload it ?

ChrisW. said: I have found a very short video clip recording the sound of the GT4 on the pit straight at Donington ... it's a 1.4mb MP4 file ... any idea on how to upload it ? Load it onto YouTube and post a link. Probably the quickest / easiest way?

The only person who can decide what car is right for you is you sir. PH is a minefield of opinions, bias, haters and fanboys. For what it’s worth, I owned a 600bhp Impreza for 14 years and moved to a manual CR 7 years ago. I’ve used it as a daily driver, toured Europe in it and tracked it a fair few times. No it’s not fast at all but can be driven swiftly, swiftly in the same way I can keep up with loads of faster stuff in my not fast Clio 182. Fast enough and more importantly, really enjoyable. I’ve driven 981 & 718 versions of Spyder and GT4 and never once have I gotten back in my R and felt short changed. Neither felt much faster than my R tbh, their big advantage is their interior and build quality. For those reasons they’re leagues ahead of the 987. As a track only car, it’s gotta be GT4 all day as it offers more of what you need in that environment. However an R is still a very capable track tool when driven properly. For me the CR offers the right mix of everything I want this side of a GT3. Best of luck

The R most definitely has mini GT3 vibes for sure. You may even find as a hugely capable and fun road car….the R is just as good as a GT3 and dare I say it, possibly more fun on UK roads, as you can get nearer the cars limits… Great cars.