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YOUR RESEARCHModified 997s - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Car is sitting higher as the suspension since changed but helps you see the difference.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I used to use Alex Renner when I was out there as he ran the Cup cars in the UAE GT Championship.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I personally preferred the clean look with no third brake light at all so prior to painting the ducktail had the third brake light hole filled and blanking plate also
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Suggestion · Original poster
Fit on left side was never perfect either but we will work with it for now and perhaps add to future shopping list to change.i just love the ducktail look though.....
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Suggestion · Original poster
Some ducktails have built in so you then need the blanking plate to replace your stock panel with the brake light and program out the resulting fault code.
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To be honest and as Steve said I felt no difference at all.
I recently purchased a 997.1 GT3. Nice but used condition, no over revs, no accidents and 112k km so no garage queen. She's LHD as I'm out in Abu Dhabi. Got for a great price, so perfect for a project car and lots and lots of usage, road and track...... seems to be very little interest in modifying such cars on PH so this might be a bit of a niche thread, but would be nice if any others who are not shy about modding wish to contribute.
Here is the base car:
M32GER said:
Very useful. I was crawling about in the back of my 996 last night, plotting to remove the rear sound box and wondering a.) if the two bolt brackets I could see were standard and b.) what was underneath all the sound insulation!
Nice motor. A white car is a great base for some race inspired graphics:
AyBee said:
Think I prefer the original wheels
What's the plan for the car?
I have lots a plans and plan to keep posting as each stage unfolds. Most of the parts have arrived so just a question of workshop time. Some of the items are:
Akrapovic exhaust
EVOMS headers + fast flow cats
Carbon inner door panels
Carbon roof
Half roll cage
Plexi glass all round
Recaro seats
Short shifter plus cables
ECU remap
KW Clubsport suspension
Brembo 380mm brake conversion front and rear (!!)
Ducktail (yes dont't like the wing and aware of its purpose)
Modern stereo (keeping that luxury) plus just two JL Audio C5 speakers
Plus some other goodies but I need to keep some surprises.
I will post each as it is fitted : ))
Fast Bug said:
One of the best looking wheels made!
Thank you, I couldn't agree more. I just love them. They used to sit on my old Carrera and probably looked even better given the red centre caps:
[quote=Digga]
Very useful. I was crawling about in the back of my 996 last night, plotting to remove the rear sound box and wondering a.) if the two bolt brackets I could see were standard and b.) what was underneath all the sound insulation!
Nice motor. A white car is a great base for some race inspired graphics:
[pic]
You read my mind. Materials for my graphocs already ordered and having custom made : ) but that will be towards the end of the build.
Digga said:
Very useful. I was crawling about in the back of my 996 last night, plotting to remove the rear sound box and wondering a.) if the two bolt brackets I could see were standard and b.) what was underneath all the sound insulation!
Let me know if you need any close up pics, I can happily take and post for you
Good man!
Love the ducktail and wanted to propose one just before you posted it yourself.
Which one are you using RPM (carbon fibre) or a fiberglas one?
This will be an epic build!
M32GER said:
I have lots a plans and plan to keep posting as each stage unfolds. Most of the parts have arrived so just a question of workshop time. Some of the items are:
Akrapovic exhaust
EVOMS headers + fast flow cats
Carbon inner door panels
Carbon roof
Half roll cage
Plexi glass all round
Recaro seats
Short shifter plus cables
ECU remap
KW Clubsport suspension
Brembo 380mm brake conversion front and rear (!!)
Ducktail (yes dont't like the wing and aware of its purpose)
Modern stereo (keeping that luxury) plus just two JL Audio C5 speakers
Plus some other goodies but I need to keep some surprises.
I will post each as it is fitted : ))
Sounds an interesting project M32GER. I have an Akrapovic on mine but it might also be worth your while to consider a Kline Inconel625. For reference, here is how the Akrapovic sounds on mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCCuX-x03Mg&li...
Do you have a company out in Dubai who does remapping? Also the roof is quite an undertaking so you really are getting serious with this car.
Good luck
Sounds like it's going to be an awesome build.
Love this exhaust and the sound which may sway you from the Akrapovic
https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/aftermarket/ipe-i...
Very excited to see a 997 GT3 with a ducktail and will be a bit of a 'Touring' look like on the latest GT3.
9ff are the people to tune these as they have built various GT3's between 750 - 1200 BHP!
Edited by kev.RS on Wednesday 6th September 18:45
MrVert said:
God your old red Carrera looks bloody marvellous!
Been thinking about a set of Fuchs or BBS and a ducktail for mine.....just looks so right!
Thank you! Yes she was a beauty. A few more pics below
MrVert said:
God your old red Carrera looks bloody marvellous!
Been thinking about a set of Fuchs or BBS and a ducktail for mine.....just looks so right!
Actually by pure chance, she is currently resting on my friend's (who is about to start a big 997.1 C2 build, will post pics of that here also) brand new Fuchs 19". Car is sitting higher as the suspension since changed but helps you see the difference. Both options look great I think
Filibuster said:
Good man!
Love the ducktail and wanted to propose one just before you posted it yourself.
Which one are you using RPM (carbon fibre) or a fiberglas one?
This will be an epic build!
Its a fibreglass one from Design911 being taken from my old Carerra. To be honest the quality wasn't top notch and needed a lot of prep. Fit on left side was never perfect either but we will work with it for now and perhaps add to future shopping list to change.i just love the ducktail look though.....
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Sounds an interesting project M32GER. I have an Akrapovic on mine but it might also be worth your while to consider a Kline Inconel625. For reference, here is how the Akrapovic sounds on mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCCuX-x03Mg&li...
Do you have a company out in Dubai who does remapping? Also the roof is quite an undertaking so you really are getting serious with this car.
Good luck
He he yep my guy is most worried about the roof. He tried to convince me not to do it but I was having none of it and it is leaving Germany tomorrow I believe..... this car will never be an investment car, I plan to thoroughly enjoy it in every possible way so this is the opportunity to go hardcore : ))
Thanks for the tip on the exhaust. But mine arrived last week and is sitting pretty:
M32GER said:
this car will never be an investment car, I plan to thoroughly enjoy it in every possible way so this is the opportunity to go hardcore : ))
Best thing I've read on this forum for ages. It's been depressing reading about cross stitching and "overs".
Nice set of mods. Good that you've junked the PASM but would strongly also recommend a motorsport diff. Makes a big difference in performance terms but also longevity. The original plates probably got fried after 2 track days anyway.
One more thing: have you used a short shifter on track before? My experience of these on 996 and 997 is they always spoil the car by making gear selection a PITA. In fact a common mod to the 996 is to retrofit a 997 shifter, they're that good.
Oh, one more thing. I see you're fitting the Brembo kit at the back as well. I seem to recall (but happy to be corrected) that the 997 is less front biased than the 996, so maybe no need to do both front and rear, and that way you get a bit of front bias? I guess it's a personal thing.
Harris_I said:
Nice set of mods. Good that you've junked the PASM but would strongly also recommend a motorsport diff. Makes a big difference in performance terms but also longevity. The original plates probably got fried after 2 track days anyway.
Great point, thanks. Hadn't considered actually as I had an uprated diff on my Carerra and assumed GT3 one would be fine. But you are right, it is night and day so will certainly look into it. Would you have any recommendations? Thanks
May as well go whole hog and get some of these!
https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/aftermarket/cargr...
Shame as your u already have the exhaust as the IPE does sound pretty addictive!
https://youtu.be/3pvDwMICOiw
Have you decided on a graphic yet or leaving it as a surprise?
Harris_I said:
One more thing: have you used a short shifter on track before? My experience of these on 996 and 997 is they always spoil the car by making gear selection a PITA. In fact a common mod to the 996 is to retrofit a 997 shifter, they're that good.
To be honest I actually find the stock GT3 one too spring loaded and occasionally manage to crunch a gear. Bit embarrassing. I was running this one on my Carerra with the cup cables and was incredible. So precise.
https://www.design911.co.uk/mobile/#part;id=127601
https://www.design911.co.uk/mobile/#part;id=127603
Current plan is to use the same again although am also looking very closely at this!!!
http://www.shop.cae-racing.de/index.php?a=25&l...
Harris_I said:
Oh, one more thing. I see you're fitting the Brembo kit at the back as well. I seem to recall (but happy to be corrected) that the 997 is less front biased than the 996, so maybe no need to do both front and rear, and that way you get a bit of front bias? I guess it's a personal thing.
Very fair point but again just taking the kit from my Carrera and transferring it over. Ran 380mm Brembo front and rear and loved it. Stopping power is incredible and literally never fades. I did a 40 min session as Yas Marina in high 30's temp and no fade at all. Also found the rear to be fine despite potentially being over braked. It just stops
M32GER said:
Would you have any recommendations?
Most go either Cup or Guards. Don't forget to increase the ramp to 40/60 because the standard ramp compensates for the PASM annoyingly braking the rears pretending to be a diff. Grrr.
kev.RS said:
May as well go whole hog and get some of these!
https://www.scuderiacarparts.com/aftermarket/cargr...
Shame as your u already have the exhaust as the IPE does sound pretty addictive!
https://youtu.be/3pvDwMICOiw
Have you decided on a graphic yet or leaving it as a surprise?
Awesome! I did consider Carbon doors, wings etc but despite the relative extremity of my build, I still drive it to work every morning and the driving out here can be a bit dodgy so decided in the end to maintain some protection. Maybe one day once its back in the UK.... Quite funny though last week driving into work suited and booted in a car with no door panels and carpets ; )) the wife wasn't too impressed either when I took her for a Saturday drive last weekend.... especially when it came to getting out and she had to pull on a bit of wire to open the latch : )) she also wants some ear plugs.... hmmm wait until the new headers arrive love....
Harris_I said:
Most go either Cup or Guards. Don't forget to increase the ramp to 40/60 because the standard ramp compensates for the PASM annoyingly braking the rears pretending to be a diff. Grrr.
Great thanks for that. Sorry going to need the second bit in a bit more lay mans English
M32GER said:
Awesome! I did consider Carbon doors, wings etc but despite the relative extremity of my build, I still drive it to work every morning and the driving out here can be a bit dodgy so decided in the end to maintain some protection. Maybe one day once its back in the UK.... Quite funny though last week driving into work suited and booted in a car with no door panels and carpets ; )) the wife wasn't too impressed either when I took her for a Saturday drive last weekend.... especially when it came to getting out and she had to pull on a bit of wire to open the latch : )) she also wants some ear plugs.... hmmm wait until the new headers arrive love....
I can understand that completely.
If you wanted to cover the bare white you could use a black acoustic carpet that is very thin and light and would give it a more normal look inside the car to keep the good wife happy.
Don't blame me for your bill after going through this!!
They set up the Carrera cup cars so worth a chat on options to go for.
Sequential shift would be so cool!
http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/performance.html?model_99...
Depending on how much you are keeping in the car this company do some pretty carbon bits!
Love the carbon seat backs although you are ditching your sports seats.
http://www.supertweaks.com/porsche/porsche-carbon-...
kev.RS said:
Depending on how much you are keeping in the car this company do some pretty carbon bits!
Love the carbon seat backs although you are ditching your sports seats.
http://www.supertweaks.com/porsche/porsche-carbon-...
This could be dangerous..... : ) thank you for the tips, much appreciated
M32GER said:
This could be dangerous..... : ) thank you for the tips, much appreciated
Your welcome and nice to see a car being improved without being a garage queen like most over here!
Have you looked at a lightweight battery as they can save nearly 20kg's?
M32GER said:
Harris_I said:
Most go either Cup or Guards. Don't forget to increase the ramp to 40/60 because the standard ramp compensates for the PASM annoyingly braking the rears pretending to be a diff. Grrr.
Great thanks for that. Sorry going to need the second bit in a bit more lay mans English
Sorry about that. I've explained it very badly and in fact I've also completely ignored the importance of pre-load. It's probably better I refer you to another thread where fioran0 and Steve Rance explain it brilliantly:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
When Porsche introduced PASM on the 997, the diff didn't act quite as aggressively as before because the PASM acts to brake the rear wheels, thereby acting as a proxy for the diff. It also means 997 owners change their rear pads and disks more frequently if they track their cars. If you swap to the KW Clubsport and you are comfortable trail braking, you will want to set up the diff so that you get a decent amount of lock under braking. But this means you will have to balance the car during the braking phase all the way into the apex. I hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs, and if truth be told, it's been a long time since I did this properly myself!
I hope you have a good tech out in the UAE who understands how to do this right. I used to use Alex Renner when I was out there as he ran the Cup cars in the UAE GT Championship. Except when I had the gearbox rebuilt and the diff refreshed some years back, I crated the 'box and shipped it out to Mike Bourke at Sports and Classic in the UK. That 'box and diff is still going strong.
Edited by Harris_I on Wednesday 6th September 23:27
RATATTAK said:
Great thread ... my interest in Fuchs wheels and a ducktail on my 997.2 C2 have been re-sparked
Excellent!! Don't forget to consider the third brake light of you do proceed. Some ducktails have built in so you then need the blanking plate to replace your stock panel with the brake light and program out the resulting fault code.
I personally preferred the clean look with no third brake light at all so prior to painting the ducktail had the third brake light hole filled and blanking plate also
kev.RS said:
Your welcome and nice to see a car being improved without being a garage queen like most over here!
Have you looked at a lightweight battery as they can save nearly 20kg's?
Ah yes already on the way. VoltPhreaks Lithium battery ordered from Rennline. Weighs only 2.5kg! But checked that can still power my stereo and A/C and okay apparently but lasts much less time when engine off compared to a regular battery but I didn't see that as an issue
This is the one I went for:
http://www.rennline.com/VoltPhreaks-Lithium-Batter...
Harris_I said:
I hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs, and if truth be told, it's been a long time since I did this properly myself
No not at all this is awesome advice thank you. Will certainly look into it in more detail. I have the technical abilities and understanding of a knat so happy to learn anything i can. Actually that's why I thought the thread would be a good idea. I am just learning as I go. Sure I will make some mistakes but all part of it... thanks again
Harris_I said:
I hope you have a good tech out in the UAE who understands how to do this right. I used to use Alex Renner when I was out there as he ran the Cup cars in the UAE GT Championship. Except when I had the gearbox rebuilt and the diff refreshed some years back, I crated the 'box and shipped it out to Mike Bourke at Sports and Classic in the UK. That 'box and diff is still going strong.
Edited by Harris_I on Wednesday 6th September 23:27
Yes have heard Alex Renner is good but a bit far away for me. There is JZM in Abu Dhabi also. My close friend runs a nice shop called GeTech Motorsports so I do vast majority of my work there
Magic919 said:
Presumably this is PSM, rather than PASM, to save further confusion.
D'oh! Thanks, yes, the electronic thingummy that brakes individual wheels.
Thinking about Digga's post up near the top about it being helpful to have seen the rear interior all stripped out, I took some photos all round the engine / gearbox in case it is helpful for anyone wanting to get a sense where various components are etc. Will post those below now
lemmingjames said:
Have you tracked it yet with the ducktail on?
A friend of mine has a 997 Gt3 and has seen my6.2 GT3 with ducktail and wants one now but weve been talking about the aero and handling with a ducktail on (neither of us are engineers so its all pub talk sort of thing). But just wondered if you had any bum seat time to compare?
I have tracked it three times since completion, all at Yas Marina in Abu Dhabi. To be honest and as Steve said I felt no difference at all. I think the point above about being on a super higher speed corner then would likely want it but on tracks like Yas and many others I don't think the corners are fast enough to generate enough aero downforce. Ironically it is in the corners where I am able to make the gains against the newer more powerful 991 GT3s and the car feels totally planted. No plans to put the wing back on
I agree. The difference will be marginal.
That said, any differences can be felt at turn 4 of the Dubai Autodrome (which is what the instructors call Porsche Corner because of all the Porsches that crash there) and turns 2 and 3 of Yas Marina. But you would have to be right on the ragged edge.
Harris_I said:
I agree. The difference will be marginal.
That said, any differences can be felt at turn 4 of the Dubai Autodrome (which is what the instructors call Porsche Corner because of all the Porsches that crash there) and turns 2 and 3 of Yas Marina. But you would have to be right on the ragged edge.
Yes you are absolutely right. Turn 2 and 3 at Yas (up that fast sweeping hill left then right for those not familiar) could well make a difference. I do push pretty hard up through there but a wing might well help, difficult to know unless back to back test.
I haven't done the autodrome yet, but when I do I will remember your Turn 4 warning
Hi.our cars were room mates at Prestige. They did an awesome job on your car (and mine too!).
My car is now at JZM being finished up. Glad to see the end result of yours..looks awesome.
Looks amazing, what a great project.
Enjoy your finished article.
Ignore those who wish to share their views on your choices in a negative fashion. It’s your car, your money and your very own vision. Looks stunning, well done.
I'm not a 911 fan, but reading through this build has made me think again. I love the look and that you've stripped it back to make it a little more 'retro', if that's the word.
Congratulations on the build and being the Car of the Week - well deserved.
@OP - what an amazing build. Such great attention to detail and the finished car looks brilliant.
I worked at Yas Marina for a while. Really cool facility and nice to see that they seem to be building the enthusiast community and getting more attendance at the track days.
Keep the pics coming!
Finished article is absolutely incredible mate!
V jealous.
Real aesthetic creativity - Singer-esque!
Better looking than an old black / orange 997.1 RS we both knew! And that's saying something.
DC
V12GT said:
I'm not a 911 fan, but reading through this build has made me think again. I love the look and that you've stripped it back to make it a little more 'retro', if that's the word.
Congratulations on the build and being the Car of the Week - well deserved.
Snap, I’m not a fast beetle fan either despite having a type 2 camper. But yours looks perfect in that green on the bbs wheels. I salute you sir for making me look in the classified for a ragged 997 carrera in need of tlc, a cosmetic overhaul and a Chevy LS transplant. The retro look works wonders for it.
Firstly, congrats to M32GER on readers car of the week and the build. As others have already suggested totally deserved, and I hope you get to really enjoy your car now its finished.
A note on the carbon roof swap - I actually used to work for an OEM, buying that "adhesive" that goes between the roof panel and the structural braces. While there is some structural adhesive in there, most of it is anti-flutter to prevent the panel rattling on the beams and creating unwanted noise. If you've bonded in a carbon roof, and run the polyurethane adhesive as used on windscreens along the beams, then you've actually probably improved the stiffness. Providing they cleaned and used the primer on both surfaces it'll definitely hold. That PU has to survive crash tests without the windscreens separating from the A pillars, so it's more than strong enough on a roof panel (interesting fact - the paint bond will more than likely fail before the adhesive does!), and is exactly what BMW use on the I8.
Loving it. Maybe post a brief story and a handful hires pics to [email removed] for publication in the Dutch RS Porsche magazine. I'll translate. Best, Dinks.
Awesome thread, well done to the OP on a fantastic project, and also great to see that such expertise is around in this part of the world. I’m based in Dubai, so hope to see it around sometime either here or in AD.
(Goes off to search classifieds for ropey old GT3 in need of some TLC).
Paracetamol said:
Hi.our cars were room mates at Prestige. They did an awesome job on your car (and mine too!).
My car is now at JZM being finished up. Glad to see the end result of yours..looks awesome.
Hi wow awesome small world!! I spent considerable time admiring yours. Amazing paint job and one of the rare ones with the oil fill cap on the outside! Do you have any pics of the finished car, would be great to see.
Hi Peter,
I found this article last week but didn’t had the time to go through, as I wanted to read it in one go.
As it’s Ramadan here it UAE, I took some time to go through it, despite my current relocation process back to Europe.
I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this build here with everyone, it was a joy to read. I admire your car to almost the last detail.
I have the same intention when it comes to my cars. I like to drive them, rather than just polish them. Life is too short just thinking from an investment point of view.
My 997’s are currently on their way in containers back to Europe. I do have similar plans like you, some parts are already waiting back home for the cars to arrive.
My focus will be in the first stage on chassis and perfect ergonomics only, I want to take some time to find out different setups, until I found the perfect setup.
Then I want to work on the drivetrain, especially on the diff.
At the last stage I want to work on the cosmetics and weight savings.
It will be probably a longer project, as the suspension part will take a while until I’m happy. But thank you for giving the details regarding the weight saving chart. This will help me a lot to save time and focus on the big savings first, rather than spending too much time to reduce 1kg. My cars have a sunroof too
Very appreciate this read! I’m a bit sad, that we couldn’t meet in the UAE, as I’m going to leave in 3 weeks time.
Regards,
Robert
This is a good friend of mine's 2005 997.1 C2. He went even more retro and I think looks amazing. Was a parallel build to mine so some shared inspiration although his is far more comfortable day to day ; )
This was his base car the day he got it last summer:
Edited by M32GER on Friday 1st June 22:42
on the grey 911, is it safe to cover the steering wheel airbag with new leather? It might hinder the airbag in case of an accident
also is there any added cooling or aero benefits of adding the vent on the front bumper gt3 style?
M32GER, loving this thread! So much to enjoy.
One question, I don't think it was mentioned anywhere (but possible I missed it!), what make is the ducktail (and is it carbon/grp)? Any advice to a 997.1 C2s wanting to go ducktail? Cheers. J.
( @blackandgold911 on Instagram in case you want to see mine)
Hi John, sorry for the slow reply, I haven't logged in for a while now. The ducktail came from design911, its fibreglass and about 700 pounds plus then painting and fitting. I also chose to have the rear brake light area filled in before painting as prefer the cleaner look. Bolts right on but then need to have the error code for the removal of the aero spoiler reprogrammed. Its easy for the C2 as ready to fit but was a mission to fit onto a GT3 as the Mezger engine has different layout of fans and intake so required a lot of fabricating.
PS looked up your car, very nice! Love the colour combo
PPS I have since made some additions to my car so will take some pictures soon and upload, essentially though:
- 19” BBS E88’s track wheels with 9” fronts and 12” rears
- Brembo GT Big Brake Kit 380mm front and rear
- Guards Pro Differential (finally arrived after almost a year of being messed around)
- painting of the wiper cowling in body colour and modification to allow full movement of the wiper arm
- additional sensors for brake temp, transmission oil temp, oil temp etc feeding to custom gauges programmed into the stereo head unit
- reinstallation of factory carpet set and sound proofing (was just too loud for the road with the lightweight set)
M32GER said:
And became this
Less is more. That is way too much alcantara, its overkill in my opinion. there is a reason why Porsche only cover certain things in alcantara. Exterior looks amazing though.
cy00 said:
on the grey 911, is it safe to cover the steering wheel airbag with new leather? It might hinder the airbag in case of an accident
also is there any added cooling or aero benefits of adding the vent on the front bumper gt3 style?
correct, that is super unsafe and will null and void ones insurance.
julian987R said:
correct, that is super unsafe and will null and void ones insurance.
A bit like not having N rated tyres on a Porsche will void ones insurance then ? Or perhaps fitting a wooden rimmed steering wheel to a Cayman R, that would splinter into a million pieces upon impact ?
I'd suggest all are poppycock.
bigchief1982 said:
Very late to this thread but thoroughly enjoyed it.
Excellent build and attention to detail.
Love the duck tail also!
Very late posting, full stop
M32GER said:
Cunno said:
Did you weigh the car before and after? How much weight was taken out? What were the main contribution from?
Seats
Exhaust
Roof
Windows
Carpets
Door cards
Battery
Anything else?
Jon
Hi Jon
Stupidly I was in such a hurry to crack on that I didn't get the car weighed before we started and have yet to weight it since completed. I did however weight all individual components changed out and added in (a good number of those pics are earlier in the thread). The overall result and line by line breakout is below.
So about 100kg down give or take. It certainly feels very light and agile. Through the corners it is really on point. More nimble to be honest than the 991s as I am able to pull a gap consistently. Down the straights the 991.1s have a very very slight advantage but not enough to pass which just shows the benefit of shedding that kind of weight since my engine (3.6) is still stock with just the bolts ons mentioned above and the ECU remap not yet done.
Fantastic project and end product.
I also have a 97.1 Gt3 clubsport, albeit not as fresh as your masterpiece.
None the less I love it.
In terms of light-weighting mods I like the thought of the lithium battery and also the flywheel.
Does the lighter flywheel add much to the driving experience?
Fantastic cars, I’m still on a high after a blast up into the twisty stuff here Down Under.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.