997 GT3 are they any good? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

So as is often the case I find myself looking at P cars again.I missed out on a late GT4 allocation due to the spec issues with carbon bits. Hey ho. I have had a few Caymans including a GT4 for a short time but I have always liked the look of the earlier GT3s before they started making them look horrible like the current generation. Now I have had a 991.1 RS and quite honestly it was one of the worst cars I've ever owned. There are some reasons I think the 997 might be better so I'm hoping for a bit of feedback.... Things that were off on the 991 were mainly around the combination of engine and gearbox. So the engine delivers its peak power right at the top of the revs but hampered by that hideously long ratio gearbox it made the RS a very frustrating car as you effectively had a 300BHP 1500kg car as peak power was simply never accessible on the road. It was a total pile of poo for the money. OK on track but not all that really. The GT4 engine delivers that more typical Porsche flat 6 midrange punch so you aren't as reliant on the revs to make the car feel quick. The ride on and steering were pretty decent on the 991 I'm not opposed to a firm ride. The rear steer on the 991 was odd as well often making the rear feel out of control. I'm hoping that the more simple approach of the early cars plus the hydraulic steering should be a good combination. I would be looking for a club sport with PCCB 80-90k budget in the current market (iff anyones selling!) Am I on the right track here? More accessible performance better midrange and a bit better gear ratios? It would be mainly road use but would do a couple of trackdays a year maybe.

I can't honestly see how you'd think the 991.1rs engine/dual clutch gearbox combination was longer and less usable than the gt4 tbh...... The 7gt3 engine delivers power very differently to the 981 gt4 (which i assume you had rather than the 718) so if you weren't keen on the 991rs, the 7gt3 is unlikely to be much if any better.

GT4 feels much better in the midrange than the 991 it punches out of corners a lot better than the GT3 did

I love my 997.2, I haven’t driven a 3.6 but the 3.8 has plenty of torque and the engine really packs a punch with a distinct change of character at 4,000 revs. If you check out the time it takes from 50 to 70 or other 20mph increments, I haven’t looked recently but from what I remember, it’s as quick as a 997 Turbo. There was thread called something like ‘Where are all the 997 GT3’ it would be worth searching for.

fridaypassion said: GT4 feels much better in the midrange than the 991 it punches out of corners a lot better than the GT3 did Well i think the point is that especially with a dual clutch gearbox, it absolutely shouldn't be doing that unless you are in an absurdly high gear and still refuse to downshift.......

isaldiri said: Well i think the point is that especially with a dual clutch gearbox, it absolutely shouldn't be doing that unless you are in an absurdly high gear and still refuse to downshift....... The 991 engine simply delivers power in a totally different way. GT3 is al at the top end it only really feels like it has any power at 7000RPM the GT4 seems to have shove from much lower down.

991.1 rs 981 gt4

The torque curve demonstrates the point

fridaypassion said: The torque curve demonstrates the point yep, also that the GT4 has a strange flat line, its holding back... so with some gadgets/tuning it could easily see more HP, but then it maybe loses a bit torque low down? interesting non de less.

It demonstrates why no one in his right mind with more or less half the rev range available is going to stay at that 4-5k compared to pulling a paddle to go to a gear with more power......and given the gt4 is as good as flat after 6k, that makes the gt3/gt3rs engine is imo infinitely better.

Any info on gear ratios? Gear ratios normally are a hidden part of a cars spec. All I have is actual practical experience with both cars. The Gt4 feels much more punchy and useable on the road.

From memory in both 997.2 and 997.1 gt3, 2nd gear tops out about 84mph. 997.2 gt3 rs is lower geared.

fridaypassion said: Any info on gear ratios? Gear ratios normally are a hidden part of a cars spec. All I have is actual practical experience with both cars. The Gt4 feels much more punchy and useable on the road. 981 gt4, 20" wheel, final drive 3.89 1 - 3.31, 2 - 1.95, 3 - 1.41, 4 - 1.13, 5 - 0.95, 6 - 0.81 991.1rs, 21" wheel, final drive 4.18 3.75 -- 2.38 -- 1.72 -- 1.34 -- 1.11 -- 0.96 -- 0.84 Happy to be corrected re the figures if wrong, have had a quick scroll through some old data on the phone so not taken from 'official' data. P.S my actual practical experience of both car fwiw very obviously differs quite a bit from yours.... P.P.S to bring it back to your original question, a 997gt3 (non rs) likely will feel a fair bit longer geared than a 991rs so if you thought that of the 991, the 7gt3 might not quite agree. The slightly odd thing is no one i know of ever thought the gt4 was better geared or matched to it's engine than the 991..... Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 1st October 20:23

Maybe I'm just weird but I felt the GT4 on the road was just a much better car on the road than the GT3 RS in pretty much app areas. I think I could do with a drive in one I have a plan with a 996 so might see if I can get a go in that and take it from there.

With a little tuning of the 981 GT4, the torque curve dip was removed and the headline figures became 430bhp and 340 ft lbs. The 781 GT4 had a much nicer torque curve and for pace ended up very similar to a tuned 981 GT4. A big change on both was to modify the gearing ... giving 7800rpm changes at 42 / 71 / 99 / 122 mph ... which with a single mass flywheel and lightweight clutch massively improved the tactility and immediacy of the car, particularly at half sensible road speeds. You don't need to spend the extra cost of a GT3 if you prefer the GT4 platform ...

isaldiri said: fridaypassion said: Any info on gear ratios? Gear ratios normally are a hidden part of a cars spec. All I have is actual practical experience with both cars. The Gt4 feels much more punchy and useable on the road. 981 gt4, 20" wheel, final drive 3.89 1 - 3.31, 2 - 1.95, 3 - 1.41, 4 - 1.13, 5 - 0.95, 6 - 0.81 991.1rs, 21" wheel, final drive 4.18 3.75 -- 2.38 -- 1.72 -- 1.34 -- 1.11 -- 0.96 -- 0.84 Happy to be corrected re the figures if wrong, have had a quick scroll through some old data on the phone so not taken from 'official' data. P.S my actual practical experience of both car fwiw very obviously differs quite a bit from yours.... P.P.S to bring it back to your original question, a 997gt3 (non rs) likely will feel a fair bit longer geared than a 991rs so if you thought that of the 991, the 7gt3 might not quite agree. The slightly odd thing is no one i know of ever thought the gt4 was better geared or matched to it's engine than the 991..... Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 1st October 20:23 If you have them max speeds in each gear may be useful .... Edited by ChrisW. on Sunday 1st October 21:40

Found this ...

fridaypassion said: Am I on the right track here? More accessible performance better midrange and a bit better gear ratios? No, I don't think you are. The 991 RS probably has shorter gearing than a 997 GT3. And their power/torque curves are a similar shape. On the road, whether it's GT4 or GT3, you need to be prepared to use 2nd gear a lot more often if you want to access the performance. I suspect you're in third a lot of the time and getting annoyed that you don't have enough power/torque around 4-6000 rpm. A 997 GT3 will be no different. If you want big midrange punch you'll want turbos. Maybe have a look at the 991.2 T with folding bucket seats.

I think I need to have a go in one. The GT4 definitely has totally different characteristics engine wise to the 991 RS I had. I know you have to use second gear you are never out of it on the road! 991 just doesn't feel quick until about 7k

Maybe it's the step up from 5-6 k in the 991RS that makes it feel slow down low rather than actually being slower than a GT4. Replacement gear set in a GT4 is a good call. I have a manual 991.2 and changed the headers to equal length & freer flowing cats That boosted the torque significant from 3k to 5k revs - circa 45lb ft.

Nah the 91 was just pants. Nobody believes it but I've had a lot of cars and drive different cars all the time. Interestingly I got a 981 GT4 the day after I sold the 991 the GT4 is just better for road. Much punchier at lower revs.

As a 991.1 GT3 owner, I should do the usual PH thing of blindly defending my current car, but I would agree that the 997.1 GT3 I owned 11 years ago was probably a better weekend road car. The 991 is undoubtedly a lot faster in the right hands, and has more technology to flatter my inept driving, but it's just too capable to be really fun at speeds that won't get you locked up in the UK. The 997.1 with a manual box, hydraulic PAS and a few inches smaller all round felt like it was more fun. Still devastatingly quick, but you were working more with the car and the sensations arrived at a more natural speed. There are fewer things to go wrong in the 997 too: no rear axle steering, dynamic engine mounts or fiddly electronic parking brake. I would run a 997 without a warranty but I'd never consider that in my 991. Where the 991 does win is being able to play the long distance GT role now and again. Even with the cage, short-ish PDK ratios and typical GT3 tyre roar, it's a comfier place to be than I remember my 997 being. But that's not why you buy a GT3...

ChrisW. said: Found this ... I think this show's the OP's internal dyno was miscalibrated for his RS. The GT4 has a bit of extra torque below 4500. But by 4500-4700 the RS has the same torque and then both power and torque build quickly way beyond the GT4's figures.

Here's a nice Carrera T - with Litchfield mods (470hp), manual and bucket seats https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15685483

braddo said: Here's a nice Carrera T - with Litchfield mods (470hp), manual and bucket seats https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/15685483 A lot of car for the money. IMO.

Agreed.

MarkM3Evoplus said: Replacement gear set in a GT4 is a good call. I have a manual 991.2 and changed the headers to equal length & freer flowing cats That boosted the torque significant from 3k to 5k revs - circa 45lb ft. That sounds like a nice win, although I guess its a 3-4k job all in?

GTRene said: MarkM3Evoplus said: Replacement gear set in a GT4 is a good call. I have a manual 991.2 and changed the headers to equal length & freer flowing cats That boosted the torque significant from 3k to 5k revs - circa 45lb ft. That sounds like a nice win, although I guess its a 3-4k job all in? Including fitting (the garage that fitted had to replace 3 x Lambda sensors @£840 that they de-threaded.....) and charged a full day for fitting c£1200, which was a bit excessive imo, so it came to around £11K all in (shipping etc for the system from USA), so not cheap. Car sounds incredible though and saves about 50lbs in weight at the rear. Need to add silenced tips to get on (loud) track days.

ah, indeed more then I thought, thanks the extra sound I also understand, can be great, but indeed not on trackdays sadly. In the past I was also send away 2 times for to much sound, people said you then stop giving gas at some points were the sensors are, but thats no fun, you finally are on a track were you can drive as fast as you can, like free to do (almost) and then more rules and send away, gone your day and your money...