997 turbo of cayman gt4 - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Im looking at buying one of the above and was looking for some opinions from those who have owned both, or any advice welcome. Thanks

Given they’re so different maybe you could tell us what it is you want from your choice and why you’ve arrived at those two cars. Otherwise the comparisons will be far and wide!

Wow that’s out there. Ones a 12 year old 4wd turbo, ones a 5 year old 2wd mini GT car. Only you know what sort of car ticks your boxes on those two.

A bit like asking "S-class Merc, or Caterham 620R?"!

I didn’t think they were that out there as total opposites, but I haven’t driven either. Had a good go in a 997.2 carrera s a while ago which was great. My reason for the two options was that i love the look of the cayman gt4’s and hear lots of positive reviews, with the 997 i was thinking that for the same money as the cayman (around 60k) they are probably the ultimate 911? Im talking 997.1 manual. Just looking into options. The car will be a toy basically for occasional use

stevec33 said: I didn’t think they were that out there as total opposites, but I haven’t driven either . Had a good go in a 997.2 carrera s a while ago which was great. My reason for the two options was that i love the look of the cayman gt4’s and hear lots of positive reviews, with the 997 i was thinking that for the same money as the cayman (around 60k) they are probably the ultimate 911? Im talking 997.1 manual. Just looking into options. The car will be a toy basically for occasional use Nice choice to have. Do yourself a massive favour, arrange a test drive of both cars, I guarantee you'll then know which you want to own and enjoy time behind the wheel of. Once you've driven both, you'll also better understand the responses you've gotten to your question so far. Look forward to hearing the summation/comparison of your test drives

Slippydiff said: Nice choice to have. Do yourself a massive favour, arrange a test drive of both cars, I guarantee you'll then know which you want to own and enjoy time behind the wheel of. Once you've driven both, you'll also better understand the responses you've gotten to your question so far. Look forward to hearing the summation/comparison of your test drives This. But try to consider really carefully what you enjoy about each. Especially if the drives are short. Eg the Turbo will likely feel much faster on first acquaintance which might distract from other aspects of the car.

Yes will try to drive both, dealers are very iffy about test drives at the mo with the corona situation, they practically want the money in the bank first. Main reason for considering the 997 turbo was on recommendation from a friend who works at a porsche specialist and has done for probably 20 years. He’s adamant the turbo is the one in his eyes. From what i can gather it seems as though most would describe the turbo as being a long distance fast gt car for storming through europe or something, where as the gt4’s are just more of a blast around b roads/trackday tool

stevec33 said: The car will be a toy basically for occasional use I'd be going for the GT4 if for above use personally

To drive ? Or cosset and hope to retain value? At 60k you’ll be limited in use of the later.

Have you got kids? Personally I'd rather have four seats as it'd get used far more. But wouldn't go for the Turbo. Just a nice useable 911.

Im looking for it to drive, but wont be putting loads of miles on, it would obviously be nice if whatever i buy holds its money well but I suppose that’s always a bit of a gamble you take. I do have kids, a 6 and 9 year old, not sure realistically how kids fit in the back of a 911? It would certainly be nice if we could all go out together and would ultimately probably allow me to get a bit more use out if whatever i get. I did have a go in a 997.2 manual carrerra s a few years ago and really liked it tbh.

If your children are into cars then I’d definitely go for a 911. The cayman would only have space for one and that might mean neither goes to avoid arguments! 911s not great for children but at least do-able for when you want to.

stevec33 said: Im looking for it to drive, but wont be putting loads of miles on, it would obviously be nice if whatever i buy holds its money well but I suppose that’s always a bit of a gamble you take. I do have kids, a 6 and 9 year old, not sure realistically how kids fit in the back of a 911? It would certainly be nice if we could all go out together and would ultimately probably allow me to get a bit more use out if whatever i get. I did have a go in a 997.2 manual carrerra s a few years ago and really liked it tbh. If you've got kids, surely it's got to be a 911?

What floats your boat when driving? If you like balance and the ability to adjust the line through a corners on the throttle then the GT4 is more likely be the car. If you prefer grunt and straight line speed and the shove in the back, turbo will be for you. Both nice cars but have very different personalities Can’t really go wrong with either

I think the age of the the car might be a factor to consider, the GT4 will feel much more modern, not to mention handle like a go cart, the 997 Turbo will feel alot more old school in comparison, as will the interior. Both great cars to own, suspect as mentioned, a test drive of both will show you which one you will prefer. Value wise, the Turbo will eventually hold its value better.

You aren't your friend... as already said it really depends on what you want out of it. Enjoy chasing down whichever you choose.

As amazing as the 911 turbos are they are very heavy - 200+ kg heavier than the GT4 (maybe as much as 300kg). So for fun, they’re not great. For speed, they’re right at the top bit of the pyramid. Given your kids’ age I would be looking at a simple manual 997.2 carrera. Fun for you and the chance for the family to go out together. Or put some back seats in a Gt3 (996 or 997.1)

Ive got two girls and neither are into cars at all, nether is my wife. Like i say its not essential to have back seats but could be useful at times. Weve got other cars for daily use ect. Anyone think a 991 manual carrera would be worth looking at seen as they are similar money to the 997’s now? I do like the 997 carrera but was really fancying something a bit ‘more’ and more special.

Looked in to running Costs of 60k 911’s ? I saw a bill averaging £1,200 pa

Do you mean £1200 a year? I think thats pretty good tbh

I’ve owned a manual 997.1 turbo and a manual Cayman GTS. I change my cars as often as I change my underpants but if you asked me which one I would take back for a Saturday morning drive of a few days in Scotland it would be the Cayman no question. I have a 540C now which you could nearly get for the same money ??

Thanks that’s interesting, im getting the impression the caymans are more of a sunday drive car and the turbo is more of a gt/high speed cruiser. Whats a 540c?

stevec33 said: Do you mean £1200 a year? I think thats pretty good tbh That’s for preventative maintenance - not running costs. Coil packs, front condensers, full set of brake pipes were all 1200 ish bills when nailed to a service each year when I ran a 10yr old 997 from 40 to 60k miles over three years. I find that they had ‘degraded’ to require replacing at such relatively low miles / age rather rude tbh. Obviously throw on top the more routine stuff too : clutch, discs and rotors etc. Don’t get me wrong, loved my 997, no regrets etc, and great at traversing the country at pace. But I think entering at that specific age / miles throws some weighty bills to replace parts, not just standard service costs (I’d expect ‘turbo tax’ would also inflate those numbers)

stevec33 said: Thanks that’s interesting, im getting the impression the caymans are more of a sunday drive car and the turbo is more of a gt/high speed cruiser. Whats a 540c? A carbon-tubbed, very quick/capable Cayman on steroids basically !!

997 Turbo and GT4 are 'chalk and cheese'. I've had a new factory ordered Porsche every three years since the-80s, plus classics alongside. Ordered a 997 Turbo 'S' in 2010, hoping for a fast, efficient, comfortable GT. Although I kept it for three years, I don't look back at it with great fondness. Yes, it was fast, but actually a bit dull. Noise, power delivery, handling - all a bit too clinical. Explored 'sports exhausts', but they just seemed to make a dull noise loud. And road noise (in the UK) was quite noticeable on longer trips. Took it to Centre Gravity to try and make the handling more engaging, but it never felt like, what I would call, a 'real' 911. I think PDK was part of the problem - a 6-spd manual might have improved the experience (but not available on the 'S'), Almost any Cayman is a more engaging car on the road. I took delivery of a full spec GT4 in 2016, and, as a fun/weekend toy it didn't disappoint. Road or track it was everything a Porsche should be. For more regular day-to-day use, the buckets (I had 918 lwts) could be a pita, and road noise (again, in the UK) was also a bit tiresome on longer trips. But, overall, a great car. Although, I did run a Cayman GTS for a while and that was a much better bet for more regular use and, if I was looking at the 718 options today, I would go for a 4.0GTS over a GT4.

What about a 997.2 GTS?

Fezzaman said: What about a 997.2 GTS? Would have.

stevec33 said: Ive got two girls and neither are into cars at all, nether is my wife. Like i say its not essential to have back seats but could be useful at times. Weve got other cars for daily use ect. Anyone think a 991 manual carrera would be worth looking at seen as they are similar money to the 997’s now? I do like the 997 carrera but was really fancying something a bit ‘more’ and more special. I have test drove both and much prefer the 991. The interior alone is light years ahead and as daily driver / occasional fun car it is pretty impressive. But I ma going for. aGT4 as all I what is a fun can do drive around the lovely roads we have up her min Scotland

I run a 993 hot rod and 997 turbo both on mid 90k miles. Chalk and cheese and all the better for it. The turbo is a quiet and refined fast jet. An engineering marvel capable of running at 750PS with relatively minimal bolt on changes but even at this power level its a lear jet not a fighter. The 993 like the GT4 are more weekend cars. You could drive them all the time and some do but a 996 turbo or 997 turbo better as a daily. Having said that as something nice to own I can understand why people are now snapping up 997.1 turbos. Me racing a brand new 992 turbo s a few weeks ago in a relatively mildly modded manual 997.1 turbo with stock engine and gearbox. Its lovely to drive and I've had her 14 years from new. They need a bit of tweaking to make them more emotional thats all. Misunderstood car (its for the guy that doesn't like shouty) capable of destroying most modern hyper/super cars even today. . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBc73xxqO5s&fe...

stevec33 said: Im looking for it to drive, but wont be putting loads of miles on, it would obviously be nice if whatever i buy holds its money well but I suppose that’s always a bit of a gamble you take. I do have kids, a 6 and 9 year old, not sure realistically how kids fit in the back of a 911? It would certainly be nice if we could all go out together and would ultimately probably allow me to get a bit more use out if whatever i get. I did have a go in a 997.2 manual carrerra s a few years ago and really liked it tbh. I am sure someone else has said, but you'd be fine with children at that age, be reet until they are teenagers. Saying that, I'd not have a Turbo as a family wagon, 4S or a 60k 991 would suffice, but then if you'e got the mullah, why not?!

beresd said: I am sure someone else has said, but you'd be fine with children at that age, be reet until they are teenagers. Saying that, I'd not have a Turbo as a family wagon, 4S or a 60k 991 would suffice, but then if you'e got the mullah, why not?! Hard suspension and road noise (linked?) make the turbo less gt/family car. Suspension can be sorted with a DSC box from 9e.

I'd personally throw in a 997 GTS and 991 C2S/4S into the test drives. Both special cars. I was blown away by the 991 C2S PDK when it was launched. Other than no steering feel a far more precise car than 997. Better GT too and whole family get to have fun

Just revisiting this; how did you get on, Any purchases made? I’m seriously considering selling my 997.1 turbo (had it 5 years) and going for a GT4 - would be good to get your thoughts.

NickHappy said: Just revisiting this; how did you get on, Any purchases made? I’m seriously considering selling my 997.1 turbo (had it 5 years) and going for a GT4 - would be good to get your thoughts. Top lurking 4 posts since 12 Feb 2006!

NickHappy said: Just revisiting this; how did you get on, Any purchases made? I’m seriously considering selling my 997.1 turbo (had it 5 years) and going for a GT4 - would be good to get your thoughts. I went the other way and swapped my 981 GT4 late last summer for a 997.1 Turbo Manual. I had the GT4 3 years and made the change because I felt like I'd done everything I wanted to do in the GT4. I wanted something with extra seats for the little ones so it had to be a 911. After test driving a Turbo, I couldn't get the power out of my head. The cars are very different. The GT4 wins on drama and is great fun to drive but the Turbo is faster. Much faster. I honestly think that coming from a Turbo, the GT4 will feel slow. It makes a lot of noise but you'll wonder when the performance will happen. The GT4 looks and sounds amazing, but the engine is slightly underwhelming and leaves you wanting for more. Standing still, you'd expect it to set your hair on fire, but ultimately it feels a little flat. The gearbox feels amazing and makes you feel like a hero with the rev matching but you don't get to use it as much as you would like. Steering feel in the GT4 isn't great and coming from a 1M, the GT4 felt very artificial at first. It was fun on track but I since picked up a cheap track car so those days are over for me. The Turbo suits me better. It's more useable in terms of practicality, space for my children, comfort on long journeys, and all weather performance. It goes under the radar too. It also does the Sunday morning blast if you want to. Ok it's heavier and lacks the drama and balance of a GT4, but it makes up for it in speed and power delivery. It also has plenty of character with the whooshes and barks from the Mezger, and I like the old school interior and tech. One caveat is that my Turbo has Öhlins suspension, thicker roll bars and OEM short shift and LSD, so the feel isn't a million miles away from the GT4. Edited to add. The one thing I'm scared of with the Turbo is something going wrong, and the obvious high maintenance costs of a 15 year old Porsche. But You just have to keep it in mind. Running a GT4 isn't cheap either, with brakes being GT3 items and Cup 2 tyres lasting 5000 miles. Edited by Oz83 on Friday 14th April 00:07

NickHappy said: Just revisiting this; how did you get on, Any purchases made? I’m seriously considering selling my 997.1 turbo (had it 5 years) and going for a GT4 - would be good to get your thoughts. I’ve had a 996 turbo, then after a gap of a few years, had a 981 GT4. I’m not a fan of the phrase “use proposition”, but it’s particularly apt here. What you want from the car is going to make the decision for you. The easy stuff: exterior and interior the GT4 wins hands down. The exterior is aggressive and yet “tight” - it looks better to me than a GT3. The interior is (as you’d expect) light years advanced, at least compared to a 996. IIRC the 997 interior is basically the same layout but with rectangular buttons. On the move, again, start with the easy stuff. The turbo’s party pieces are warp jump straight line acceleration, limpet grip around corners and an uncanny lack of need to slow down (much) when it’s raining. The GT4’s tricks are unreal balance and an apparent complete lack of need to slow down for corners. In the wet, on its Cup 2 tyres, leave the GT4 at home. It’s certainly not undriveable in the wet, but you need to be sufficiently careful that it becomes a bit of a chore. In the dry, on a twisty road though I think the GT4 has the edge (fastestlaps.con seems to confirm) simply because it’s so beautifully balanced, it has the better tyres, it inspires confidence (bravado?) like few other cars I’ve driven, and the engine is relatively linear. Other stuff: I found the ride quality of the 996 on English roads barely tolerable. The GT4 is a lot better, but it’s still a stiff car. Both cars are noisy, though the GT4 esp when pushing on is louder inside. No one else in the family liked being a passenger in the GT4 due to the noise and harsh ride. The turbo was marginally better tolerated but no one especially enjoyed it. I’d never choose either of them for a long motorway trip over, say, a Range Rover or a large engined saloon. Off boost I found the 996 a bit of a dull thing TBH. And after a while I found that the fun of driving it fast on winding roads (good luck with that these days!) wore off because it never really felt like it was having to work that hard. The GT4 is a more involving drive, and I preferred it for that, but over time the noise and ride quality wore me down. And once I’d found out it was too noisy for my local track, it became a bit of a burden to run as a fourth car. If any of this chimes with how you’d plan to use either car, take from it what you will otherwise disregard as irrelevant.

I would have to say the 997 Turbo is probably the most overrated performance car made. No noise, no drama, inert handling, and yet still all that NVH you get from a 911. Genuinely so boring, and a comparison with a GT4 is frankly laughable. Despite this, I still went back and got a 997.2 Turbo S which was much better (PDK versus Tiptronic helped massively), especially when I got an aggressive geo and fitted Cup 2s. Still no noise though, and ultimately just didn't do it for me. Things have moved on though, the 991 Turbo is far more impressive (Gen 2 sound OK too) and I recently drove the 992 Turbo S and it was incredibly playful. Finally deserving of its best all-rounder title!