Are 997 gen 1 / gen 2s over priced? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Just curious to hear peoples thoughts on 997.1 and 997.2 prices? Does anything think the 997s are way overpriced? Or are people actually buying at the those prices. For reference most 997 gens seem to be £25k minimum if not £30k for quite a high miler, some even £35k for a low miler - considering the engine issues on these… do you think prices are a bit silly, or is their genuine demand at that price? A 10k engine rebuild would make it more expensive than a gen 2 if and more likely when needed. 997.2 more understandable but a decent low miler is £40k range… which I guess is fair considering a lot more reliable and desirable.

Still a lot of car for the money. Had our 997.1 for 14 years and it's a keeper. Other 911s have come and gone over that period, but I couldn't prise the 997 keys out of my wife's hand. My brother had a 997.2 and I actually prefer the .1 - feels more raw. As a 911 should. Perhaps it's just the sound.

We had a 997.2 2s for around 4 years, great car never really missed a beat.

In fairness, virtually everything interesting, and a lot of boring stuff, has had inflated values over recent years, due to a combination of factors. However, all the indicators point to a significant correction. The way to check is to submit the details of any car that interests you into WBAC or Motorway. That will give you the figure you might be looking at if you were trying to sell that car. It can be quite sobering.

Depends on what angle you're coming from. Compared to a wheezy old air-cooled needing a tonne of work, they're still very cheap. Adjusted for inflation, they also haven't really gone up much, especially now that at least some of the post pandemic gains have reversed. Think the only cars that really make them look a bit pricey are closely related 987 models. You can get a really nice 987.1 3.2 Box for less than half the money of a 997.1. That makes the 997 look very poor value. Or a rock solid 987.2 3.4 for similar money to a 997.1, maybe even a bit less. Likewise, an extra £15k for a base 997.2 3.6 over a 987.2 3.4 isn't a great value proposition. But then if it's a 911 you want for whatever reason, not a Cayster, well, it doesn't really matter what a 987 goes for, you're not going to be buying one. Compared to nearly all other 911s, 997s remain excellent value.

Yeh not really looking at 987s. Only 997 and upwards. Just surprised 997.1 so high considering all the potential pitfalls and issues. 997.2 - there was an immaculate 80k miler that sold for £33k - not too long back, but just found the price tag a little too high for 80k miler. But I guess people paying it, so who am I to say it’s overvalued. 997.1 would make a fantastic project car though if they £20k was the ceiling for a well looked after car. esotericar said: Depends on what angle you're coming from. Compared to a wheezy old air-cooled needing a tonne of work, they're still very cheap. Adjusted for inflation, they also haven't really gone up much, especially now that at least some of the post pandemic gains have reversed. Think the only cars that really make them look a bit pricey are closely related 987 models. You can get a really nice 987.1 3.2 Box for less than half the money of a 997.1. That makes the 997 look very poor value. Or a rock solid 987.2 3.4 for similar money to a 997.1, maybe even a bit less. Likewise, an extra £15k for a base 997.2 3.6 over a 987.2 3.4 isn't a great value proposition. But then if it's a 911 you want for whatever reason, not a Cayster, well, it doesn't really matter what a 987 goes for, you're not going to be buying one. Compared to nearly all other 911s, 997s remain excellent value.

If the prices aren't too your liking then you can always not buy. The market is what it is.

I test drove a 997. Carrera (non s) about 10 years ago. By reckoning the same car would be worth more today than it was 10 years ago. I’ve been bitten by a Porsche chocolate engine once at the cost of around £10k, as much as I would love another Porsche as it was a fantastic car (apart from the engine) there isn’t a chance in hell I would buy another. Especially as currently they all seem overpriced. Even 996 varieties seem to be demanding silly money.

Fnumber1user said: If the prices aren't too your liking then you can always not buy. The market is what it is. Helpful comment.

A 997.1 C2S will always have more potential to fail than a 997.2, but that does allow people to get into one at a lower cost. At £20k+ even if you need a new engine at £10k it's still a £30k carm Entry into a 997.2 C2S for £36k+ for 80k miles will still run a risk. Main point would be buy on condition as there's plenty of other items to eat budget. A well cared for 997.1 C2S with higher miles at a lower price maybe the best buy.

Discombobulate said: Still a lot of car for the money. Had our 997.1 for 14 years and it's a keeper. Other 911s have come and gone over that period, but I couldn't prise the 997 keys out of my wife's hand. My brother had a 997.2 and I actually prefer the .1 - feels more raw. As a 911 should. Perhaps it's just the sound. This is infesting to hear. Someone else told me this week, who spends their life around Pork that the .1, rather than .2, is their preference for the rawness and sound. I didn’t enjoy my 997.2 but I put that down to being a fatboy Targa 4S. Time to revisit this. Would like another 911 as a daily

Ran a 997.2 C2S as had to scratch the 911 itch. Loved it but it was too linear and refined for me. Back in a Boxster 3,4S as the station car - noisier, sharper handling, less refined, more fun. Now being tempted by GTS options 992 911 or 718 Boxster - but will they really be £££ more fun than what I have?

g7jhp said: A 997.1 C2S will always have more potential to fail than a 997.2, but that does allow people to get into one at a lower cost. At £20k+ even if you need a new engine at £10k it's still a £30k carm Entry into a 997.2 C2S for £36k+ for 80k miles will still run a risk. Main point would be buy on condition as there's plenty of other items to eat budget. A well cared for 997.1 C2S with higher miles at a lower price maybe the best buy. I agree with that logic. I think the 997.1 design is more cohesive and purposeful, as if the 997.2 is a restyling that "had" to happen. Perhaps not the stupidest idea to buy a £20k 997, sort it and be ready for a Hartech rebuild when the time comes. This is in the context of a keeper. Mind you, I used the same logic with my then £8,750 996 10 years ago - which I still have

The 4k per year to run a 997 was an eye opener, especially when the chap or many other posters in the thread had any engine or gearbox issues.

irish boy said: The 4k per year to run a 997 was an eye opener, especially when the chap or many other posters in the thread had any engine or gearbox issues. To me it's all useage and miles dependent. As a daily, I can believe it. As a weekend car, I don't know.

A friend was trying to see a 997 and no interest for months and it was keenly priced . I would suggest that the prices may be a little toppy.

Yeh well thats exactly my dilemma. Currently in a low mileage M2 - but looking to buy a more traditional coupe (vs M2 which is more a 2 door saloon coupe). I'm more or less set on getting a C4 or C4s (only because of the wide body). S or not - I'm not too fussed. and Gen 1 vs Gen 2 - naturally would love to get a gen 2 - but that requires a substantial budget upgrade which is not do-able for me at mo anyway. So as things stand I'm in the mindset find a well priced gen 1 C4/C4S - as long as it has full history - I'm willing to completely to ignore mechanical condition - as the aim would be to get a Hartech re-build and refresh the car to something completely new. £30k total doable - and I know it's unrealistic - but if I could find a £10-15k 997 (with bore scoring issues etc) and high miles - means I can open around £15-20k get car to how it probably should have come out of Porsche factory. Almost in a similar vibe to the RPM Technick 997 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANmQyLI70-g). Its a big investment for me - as I love the M2 - but just lacks that feel of car wrapping around yourself or traditional coupes. g7jhp said: A 997.1 C2S will always have more potential to fail than a 997.2, but that does allow people to get into one at a lower cost. At £20k+ even if you need a new engine at £10k it's still a £30k carm Entry into a 997.2 C2S for £36k+ for 80k miles will still run a risk. Main point would be buy on condition as there's plenty of other items to eat budget. A well cared for 997.1 C2S with higher miles at a lower price maybe the best buy.

Fnumber1user said: If the prices aren't too your liking then you can always not buy. The market is what it is. didn't think of that. Good suggestion.

Yeh to be honest I prefer the rear lights of Gen 2 (but it might just be subconsciously knowing its the later version) stuckmojo said: I agree with that logic. I think the 997.1 design is more cohesive and purposeful, as if the 997.2 is a restyling that "had" to happen. Perhaps not the stupidest idea to buy a £20k 997, sort it and be ready for a Hartech rebuild when the time comes. This is in the context of a keeper. Mind you, I used the same logic with my then £8,750 996 10 years ago - which I still have

what was he looking for? and what was it? if he still has - and has full history - I might be interested. Tagteam said: A friend was trying to see a 997 and no interest for months and it was keenly priced . I would suggest that the prices may be a little toppy.

I bought a very tidy 997.1 manual coupe with 60K miles on it 6 months ago for £27,500 having never had Porsche's before. Obviously I've got interest in them but honestly it's an incredible car for the money, in many ways as good as my NSX and a lot cheaper at today's prices, plus it has the occasional rear seats which is handy. Even if the worst happens and you need a rebuild (and contrary to popular opinion they don't all self destruct) if you buy in the mid 20's, after the cost of the work for mid 30's you can have a completely sorted car. You can even get Harlech to bore them out to 3.9 and then you essentially have a GTS spec car. I was really surprised at how well the interiors hold up and the general quality of the car. Overpriced? Compared to my other sports cars, I would say the opposite, that the 997 and in particular the gen 1 is an incredibly good deal at mid 20's for get 1 and mid 30's for get 2. Oh, and the gen 1 does sound better yes, I had the cash set aside for either but opted for the earlier car for this reason alone. I am now in a position to easily trade up to a 991 or a 992 if I wanted, but I wouldn't even consider it.

shuebc said: why would you care about service history - as long as the car is straight - if you want to rebuild it? You'd be replacing all the wear and tear and service bits anyway?

Just bought a 997.1 at £24k. Bought it precisely because I believe they are under priced! If you buy one that is sorted, it’s still going to be £10K below a 997.2 because market prices in a rebuild cost. The gen 2 values drive the gen 1’s. Sure there may be some market corrections as a result of the state of the economy, but you can build that into a negotiation if you find one you like.

IMHO they are overpriced. But you will need to think at what price it’s worth it for you. Clearly replies on here are from people who have thought it is worthwhile for the premium.

Ah. So you're the comedian who emailed me over the weekend offering me £15K for my 997 and making it sound like you'd be doing me a favour, 'because What Car says that's what it's worth' You're funny. Not.

I've been watching the 997.1 market for a while and whilst I feel like it's toppy, but then cars still seem to be selling, so I must be in the minority. There seems to be a huge range of pricing though, everything from non-rebuilt cars at £18k, to Hartech'd cars at £25k to non-Hartech'd at £40k+.

shuebc said: ... and I know it's unrealistic - but if I could find a £10-15k 997 (with bore scoring issues etc) and high miles - means I can open around £15-20k get car to how it probably should have come out of Porsche factory. I'm not sure if even crashed cars on Copart go for £10k! If you buy a neglected car that £15-20k will disappear before you're anywhere near finished.

Been watching the prices for a bit, mainly .1 C2S . And they are all over the place. Some have been forsale for a long time. Some people are bonkers with the prices tho , the silver on on AT with evidence of bore scoring hence discounted price at 22k. Tho it was serviced 100miles ago ( like thats important! ) I do like the 21k car on AT with the brown leather ( might not be to everyones taste? ) But 1 owner, fsh and notes rms and other bits being replaced. Then you have others at 30k that im guessing are really nice or the owners aren't too fussed at selling just yet.

braddo said: shuebc said: ... and I know it's unrealistic - but if I could find a £10-15k 997 (with bore scoring issues etc) and high miles - means I can open around £15-20k get car to how it probably should have come out of Porsche factory. I'm not sure if even crashed cars on Copart go for £10k! If you buy a neglected car that £15-20k will disappear before you're anywhere near finished. They do pop up occasionally. I've seen £11k for Tiptronics and £13k for manuals but the latest manual I saw had IMS bearing failure so no idea what state the engine was in and I wasn't brave enough to buy unseen.

I'd say that, within prices of 911s, 997s are UNDER priced at @ ~£25k. If you look at older, ie: any air cooled, its going to cost £50k+. If you look at newer, ie: 991, its going to cost £50k+. The only less expensive 911s are 996s, which basically share the same platform. Prices for those have come back up and, I feel, will get stronger as poor examples disappear from the market. In general for 911s, of any vintage, they remain ultimately desirable cars and there is always good demand for them. This is because they're timeless and with a unique market position with a very wide appeal, from posers to track racers. All the above is for Carrera spec cars, not specialist stuff such as GT/GTS/Turbo or any of the special editions.

RiccardoG said: I'd say that, within prices of 911s, 997s are UNDER priced at @ ~£25k. If you look at older, ie: any air cooled, its going to cost £50k+. If you look at newer, ie: 991, its going to cost £50k+. The only less expensive 911s are 996s, which basically share the same platform. Prices for those have come back up and, I feel, will get stronger as poor examples disappear from the market. In general for 911s, of any vintage, they remain ultimately desirable cars and there is always good demand for them. This is because they're timeless and with a unique market position with a very wide appeal, from posers to track racers. All the above is for Carrera spec cars, not specialist stuff such as GT/GTS/Turbo or any of the special editions. This. Clearly unloved 997's with bore scoring or IMS issues will rapidly spiral down to being worth more for parts, but I'm sure that looked after nice models will become rarer as they end up in the hands of people who will just keep them to enjoy and not need to sell as it's not their daily driver. For around 30-35k sorted, there aren't many nicer places to be if you want a proper analogue sports car. When I move on to a daily EV, mines going into storage for occasional use, I wouldn't sell it at current prices.

If you revisit the post in 12 months you’ll know the answer. In the absence of a crystal ball, it’s your best guess. I would have thought that a car that’s been out of production for > 10 years is likely to be on a relatively stable portion of the depreciation curve.

Tobermory said: This. Clearly unloved 997's with bore scoring or IMS issues will rapidly spiral down to being worth more for parts, but I'm sure that looked after nice models will become rarer as they end up in the hands of people who will just keep them to enjoy and not need to sell as it's not their daily driver. For around 30-35k sorted, there aren't many nicer places to be if you want a proper analogue sports car. When I move on to a daily EV, mines going into storage for occasional use, I wouldn't sell it at current prices. As a man whose been driving EV’s for 5 years and continues to do so daily, it’s pure enjoyment to take out the 997 and spend some of the money saved with cheap (ish) electricity, on 99 Tesco Momentum. Antithesis of EV driving I’d say. I even enjoy the real light bulbs on the side lights and in the interior. I notice 991’s now advertised in their 40’s.

I have a 997.2 C4S PDK. 96k miles. Have had it 4.5yrs. When I was looking, prices also seemed toppy for what I perceived the cars to be, mileage etc etc. But in the end, I wanted to try a 911 to see what the fuss was about, and the entry prices were what they were (bought mine at 72k miles...so "high mileage" ). It's been a great car thus far with no extraordinary costs really when you consider its age etc. .2 has a nicer interior (IMO) and a bit more power. Felt nicer than the .1s I looked at briefly. I doubt you're going to get anything for 15k. If you can afford the entry prices, just go for it. They're good cars.

Tobermory said: I bought a very tidy 997.1 manual coupe with 60K miles on it 6 months ago for £27,500 having never had Porsche's before. Obviously I've got interest in them but honestly it's an incredible car for the money, in many ways as good as my NSX and a lot cheaper at today's prices, plus it has the occasional rear seats which is handy. Even if the worst happens and you need a rebuild (and contrary to popular opinion they don't all self destruct) if you buy in the mid 20's, after the cost of the work for mid 30's you can have a completely sorted car. You can even get Harlech to bore them out to 3.9 and then you essentially have a GTS spec car. I was really surprised at how well the interiors hold up and the general quality of the car. Overpriced? Compared to my other sports cars, I would say the opposite, that the 997 and in particular the gen 1 is an incredibly good deal at mid 20's for get 1 and mid 30's for get 2. Oh, and the gen 1 does sound better yes, I had the cash set aside for either but opted for the earlier car for this reason alone. I am now in a position to easily trade up to a 991 or a 992 if I wanted, but I wouldn't even consider it. +1

I paid £40k for our Gen 2 S manual, getting one with the manual box and not PDK was a challenge plus the start of 2021 the prices were high. I am the 2nd owner of the car and it's just done 60k miles so I don't think it was a crazy price to pay especially as the dealer threw a new clutch in and aircon condensors.

This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626

Just look at the 997 shape compared to modern messes. I think they're worth it. They were designed in an era when car designers knew when to bloody put the pencil down once they'd nailed it.

ATM said: This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626 Polar silver too which is nice. 2005 so lower tax band. Potential bargain there

Andyoz said: ATM said: This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626 Polar silver too which is nice. 2005 so lower tax band. Potential bargain there Agree. Great buy. Someone will snap this up if you ask me.

rossfitz said: Andyoz said: ATM said: This looks like a great buy if you like a bit of blue leather. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14160626 Polar silver too which is nice. 2005 so lower tax band. Potential bargain there Agree. Great buy. Someone will snap this up if you ask me. We'll see

Andyoz said: Just look at the 997 shape compared to modern messes. I think they're worth it. They were designed in an era when car designers knew when to bloody put the pencil down once they'd nailed it. Yes, it's funny but it can appear a bit underwhelming in photos, but in the flesh it's a genuine turn and look over your shoulder as you walk away in the car park car. It's a stunningly coherent bit of design.

I like to have the full history of the car for the sake of future provenance. Like everything - for the more documentation something has - the more valuable something is. stuckmojo said: why would you care about service history - as long as the car is straight - if you want to rebuild it? You'd be replacing all the wear and tear and service bits anyway?

lol - What Car does value it at that price - And I think them being a car magazine thats probably been around longer than you and I - is probably something worth listening to. Whether you agree or not - thats something else, and as you've said - you won't consider it - which is fine by me. STiG911 said: Ah. So you're the comedian who emailed me over the weekend offering me £15K for my 997 and making it sound like you'd be doing me a favour, 'because What Car says that's what it's worth' You're funny. Not.

AyBee said: I've been watching the 997.1 market for a while and whilst I feel like it's toppy, but then cars still seem to be selling, so I must be in the minority. There seems to be a huge range of pricing though, everything from non-rebuilt cars at £18k, to Hartech'd cars at £25k to non-Hartech'd at £40k+. Yeh I mean Hartech rebuild at £25k I'd say is a great deal. But a non-rebuild car at even £20k I personally think is defo not worth it unless its a low mileage / low number of owners. I know a fair few people will disagree - each to their own. Yeh just wanted to get a feel for what people think - seems a lot of different opinions.

yeh there's a really good one selling from AMS - they did the rebuild themselves with Hartech parts. £26k - seems fair but would have preferred if the rebuild was done by Hartech themselves - (not to detract from AMS reputation - they seem like a decent outfit.) FilH said: Been watching the prices for a bit, mainly .1 C2S . And they are all over the place. Some have been forsale for a long time. Some people are bonkers with the prices tho , the silver on on AT with evidence of bore scoring hence discounted price at 22k. Tho it was serviced 100miles ago ( like thats important! ) I do like the 21k car on AT with the brown leather ( might not be to everyones taste? ) But 1 owner, fsh and notes rms and other bits being replaced. Then you have others at 30k that im guessing are really nice or the owners aren't too fussed at selling just yet.

Daston said: I paid £40k for our Gen 2 S manual, getting one with the manual box and not PDK was a challenge plus the start of 2021 the prices were high. I am the 2nd owner of the car and it's just done 60k miles so I don't think it was a crazy price to pay especially as the dealer threw a new clutch in and aircon condensors. Yeh to be honest I completely believe the gen 2 prices are worth the money - my issue I guess is with gen 1 prices. There's an immaculate gen 2 up for sale for £40k - and I think it's absolutely worth it. But thats something thats properly sorted - vs gen 1s with all the very very expensive pitfalls

I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money. In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made. What else could you buy for that price? R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging 360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs Evora - possibly but more fragile I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood

https://www.amsporsche.com/99736manual Here's the one I think is probably priced very fairly.

shuebc said: Yeh to be honest I completely believe the gen 2 prices are worth the money - my issue I guess is with gen 1 prices. There's an immaculate gen 2 up for sale for £40k - and I think it's absolutely worth it. But thats something thats properly sorted - vs gen 1s with all the very very expensive pitfalls If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value? You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

Yeh I think the thing that bugs me is the bore scoring on gen 1 - I really don't know if it's just the internet blowing up the issue - or it genuinely is an issue that will eventually happen. There's a video I watched saying the most cold climate 997 gen1s have bore scoring issue - where as hot climate 997 have literally no issue (from the an American Porsche specialist). So considering we're in Uk - I'm a bit more wary of the whole bore scoring thing. I get all cars have theirs quirks and issues - but when its the engine literally blowing up (or wearing itself down) when the whole point of a Porsche is performance driving - thats when I'm a bit wary. I think the thing with gen 1 at £35k - I see it being way way overpriced - as several high mileage (80k milers) gen 2's have sold for £32-33k at auctions. And a few more k - I'd be in a lowish mileage gen 2. Tobermory said: I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money. In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made. What else could you buy for that price? R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging 360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs Evora - possibly but more fragile I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood

Tobermory said: I think you have take the price of the car, add on a rebuild and then see what else you could get for the money. In my car that would make about £35k which would get you an immaculate sorts car with the perfect balance of power, use ability (rear seats) and possibly the best iteration of 911 steering that they made. What else could you buy for that price? R8- no rear seats, arguably not as engaging 360’s at least £10k more, 2 seats only and almost certainly higher running costs Evora - possibly but more fragile I8 - maybe but again not as engaging and complex to service NSX- 2 seats and getting expensive now So no, I don’t think 997’s are overpriced at all, just misunderstood The only thing that I looked at other than the 997 was an Evora (rear seats were useless) and the GTR which was massive and not as engagine (plus the service costs are really really high).

Its more the fact that lets say I got an immaculate gen 1. The bore scoring - which is most likely to happen at some point - will be £10k for Hartech (full rebuild obviously). So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1... Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced. there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k. Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild. Tobermory said: If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value? You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price... 991 - at £39k (100k miler) so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation. 991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable 997.2 - has relatively no issues 997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild) Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2.

shuebc said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price... 991 - at £39k (100k miler) so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation. 991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable 997.2 - has relatively no issues 997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild) Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2. You sound like a couple of guys on the Lotus subforum who wasted years waiting for Evoras to hit £20k and the day never came. 997s (and 996s) have passed the trough of their values and will not return to it.

braddo said: shuebc said: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price... 991 - at £39k (100k miler) so if we say £5-10k premium for each generation. 991 - I might be wrong - but also pretty darn reliable 997.2 - has relatively no issues 997.1 - has major issues that eventually occur (so unless we're looking at a rebuilt engine - £25k is very pricey for a non rebuild) Anyway just my opinion. I guess I just gotta wait til prices drop or cough up the premium for a gen 2. You sound like a couple of guys on the Lotus subforum who wasted years waiting for Evoras to hit £20k and the day never came. 997s (and 996s) have passed the trough of their values and will not return to it. These cars are now approaching the stage where it’s less about having the latest thing: people will compare a 997 and a 991 and many will come to the conclusion that for the driving experience the previous generation is better. That’s certainly my view having driven both. Comparing the .1 to the .2 comes down to your attitude to risk, but it is not the case that every car will need rebuilding at all. The .2 is certainly the safer option but I still maintain that a non rebuilt 25k .1 is good value. Each to their own though? I had a BMW 650i V8 before which I ran from 20,000 to 110,000 miles, never drank oil or needs the valve stem seals doing, despite what the received wisdom on the internet would have you believe.

Jeez..... You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want!

shuebc said: Its more the fact that lets say I got an immaculate gen 1. The bore scoring - which is most likely to happen at some point - will be £10k for Hartech (full rebuild obviously). So that essentially becomes a 35k car - for a gen 1... Just had another look and Portiacraft are selling a 50k miler gen 2 at £39k - so thats why I feel gen 1's are way overpriced. there's a even a high mileage 991 for £39k. Anyway just think anyone wants to seriously sell their gen 1s then in my opinion I just think £25k is way too much for a car without a rebuild. Tobermory said: A full Hartech job is 15k not 10k. You need to readjust all this maths. If an immaculate gen 2 is worth 40k why isn’t an immaculate gen 1 at 25k even better value? You got plenty to cover the cost of a rebuild but it’s not definitely going to need one and they sound great.

Filibuster said: Jeez..... You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want! +1 25k, 30k .1s are overpriced. 36k, 40k .2s aren't. Go buy a .2. If you don't have the budget, buy something else altogether. You don't want to buy a car that will worry you every time you drive it. No point. So either up the budget, or walk away from 911s And no end of posts on here are going to make sellers drop their prices. A deal takes a committed seller AND a committed buyer.

Murph7355 said: Filibuster said: Jeez..... You are really overcomplicating things OP. Just buy the car you want! +1 25k, 30k .1s are overpriced. 36k, 40k .2s aren't. Go buy a .2. If you don't have the budget, buy something else altogether. You don't want to buy a car that will worry you every time you drive it. No point. So either up the budget, or walk away from 911s And no end of posts on here are going to make sellers drop their prices. A deal takes a committed seller AND a committed buyer. +3!! Agreed, OP comes through as not having enough budget for a later car while being s t scared of a .1 in case the engine has issues. Any 15+ yr car has a potential for engine issues.

Super stuff. Enjoy. Enjoy!

Da Original Whyayedee said: I did, I went with this one 997.1 Wow, congratulations and well done. It looks a lovely car, very nice spec too. Seems like you're onto a winner. Absolutely amazing that you'll share it with your dad, I bet he will be over the moon! On a wider note, its also great to see this sort of realistic approach to the 997.1. Sure, you can opt for bulletproof all singing and dancing rebuilds at £15k, but both Hartech and the market will see sense in partial rebuilds as long as they're done properly. magic Monkey Dust said: Having it in PASM sport and holding on for grim death to the steering wheel is a bit of a thrill. I know when i've overdone it as the bicycle is leant so far over i can see it through the side window. As a fellow cyclist that takes occasionally takes bikes on my 997's roof, would be curious as to any limits you've noted. I'm always concerned that, if I take a fast corner something will brek (bike or bike holder).

Da Original Whyayedee said: I did, I went with this one 997.1 Engine rebuilt by Hartech 7000 miles ago,Ok, not all 6 Cylinders but after speaking to Hartech who have been brilliant with advice and phonically in my search determined this was not a 100% full proof bet, but a pretty strong option. Not seen a midnight blue car in the flesh before but even on a really dank day like today and a max of 4 degrees it looked and drove absolutely superb, which is probably testament to a good car. Few jobs being undertaken on it (New discs and pads all round, rear brake lines, and front crossover coolant pipes replaced) before picking it up next week on my 40th. Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. Hopefully the plan all comes together. Way to go!!!! Congratulations, she is a beauty!

Da Original Whyayedee said: Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. My Dad loved my 997.1 too. Out of all my cars he has driven this is the one he always comes back to. Mine was basically brand new when I had it but I don't think that's the reason. He just really liked it.

Da Original Whyayedee said: I did, I went with this one 997.1 Engine rebuilt by Hartech 7000 miles ago,Ok, not all 6 Cylinders but after speaking to Hartech who have been brilliant with advice and phonically in my search determined this was not a 100% full proof bet, but a pretty strong option. Not seen a midnight blue car in the flesh before but even on a really dank day like today and a max of 4 degrees it looked and drove absolutely superb, which is probably testament to a good car. Few jobs being undertaken on it (New discs and pads all round, rear brake lines, and front crossover coolant pipes replaced) before picking it up next week on my 40th. Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. Hopefully the plan all comes together. Way to go!!!! Congratulations, she is a beauty!

That's awesome! The midnight blue does look great, that other car with the anthracite wheels and the door stickers looked cracking! I'm really impressed with the car and keep thinking about getting it wrapped in yellow as it really does feel like a keeper! ATM said: Da Original Whyayedee said: Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. My Dad loved my 997.1 too. Out of all my cars he has driven this is the one he always comes back to. Mine was basically brand new when I had it but I don't think that's the reason. He just really liked it. That's a great touch and I'm sure he'll love the surprise!

Followed this thread and great to see a purchase on it!

Thanks for the kind comments guys, can’t wait to run it for a few months completely standard and then start playing

Congratulations on good taste Whyadee. The colour sounds pretty good too. I don't have an issue with carrying bikes on the Tequipment roof system as such, Ive had a sideboard up there and several ts of fence panels. Its more the confidence factor. High speed is fine but under cornering the whole thing makes such a lot of noise your confidence levels flutter. To be fair if secured correctly with a quality Thule rack there isn't anywhere it could go. Probably.

I’ll add that with my old Cayman I used to put bikes on the roof all the time. I drove it all the way to the Alps to race the Mega Avalanche. I was paranoid yes but I don’t I needed to be, the only thing I did was add a load more bungees between the bike and the rack! Never let them tell you though these cars aren’t practical

Da Original Whyayedee said: I did, I went with this one 997.1 Engine rebuilt by Hartech 7000 miles ago,Ok, not all 6 Cylinders but after speaking to Hartech who have been brilliant with advice and phonically in my search determined this was not a 100% full proof bet, but a pretty strong option. Not seen a midnight blue car in the flesh before but even on a really dank day like today and a max of 4 degrees it looked and drove absolutely superb, which is probably testament to a good car. Few jobs being undertaken on it (New discs and pads all round, rear brake lines, and front crossover coolant pipes replaced) before picking it up next week on my 40th. Taking my dad along to who's dream it was to have a 911, unfortunately a dream that has passed him by now. He doesn't know I have bought it, he just thinks we're going to look at some nice cars for the day, I have insured him on it too. Hopefully the plan all comes together. Yeh defo the better option out of the two you shared. Not sure what the third was. Car looks awesome I’m sure it won’t disappoint

ATM said: I like this one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210140... Now 37k - has it been reduced a bit?

Lowest price I’ve found for a gen 2. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125616419056?mkcid=16&a...

Any r8 owners here that were previously in 997.2s? Or vice versa?

Seeing this thread made me look to see what my old 997.1S would be worth in the current market. I bought a 97k mile 2 owner car for £19k in 2015, sold 2 years and 6000 miles later for £19,600 but having just serviced, new tyres and brakes so didn’t actually make any money off it. Despite a WBAC valuation of £14500 similar cars on auto trader are advertised at the same as they were in 2015-17 so it would appear the 997 is still at the level where it is depreciation proof. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...

sniff diesel said: Seeing this thread made me look to see what my old 997.1S would be worth in the current market. I bought a 97k mile 2 owner car for £19k in 2015, sold 2 years and 6000 miles later for £19,600 but having just serviced, new tyres and brakes so didn’t actually make any money off it. Despite a WBAC valuation of £14500 similar cars on auto trader are advertised at the same as they were in 2015-17 so it would appear the 997 is still at the level where it is depreciation proof. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100... That cocoa interior looks nice, £21k, 1 owner, £360 tax bracket, full history, what's not to like?

So, today was the day, I managed to keep it all under wraps and we got the train over. Only when we were stood infront of the barn where it was being stored I told my dad “We’ve only really come to see one car today to be honest” and the covers were pulled back “And we’re taking it back with us” man his face! Absolutely love it, don’t think it’s fully sunk in yet. Also he’s just starting on this venture but Graham at Oakley Classic Cars was an absolute pleasure to deal with and nothing was too much. Now a birthday curry, and probably some starting out of the kitchen window. Edited by Da Original Whyayedee on Monday 5th December 17:54

That's so cool! What a way to treat the old man eh?

Great story, hope the curry is good

The curry will be excellent as ever! It really was a great day, not truly sunk in yet!

Brilliant, what a fabulous day for you to both cherish and a lovely looking 911!!!! I only wish my old man loved cars, but to him its purely an A-B thing

Fantastic purchase. I have Carrera classic alloys but now sort of wish i had the Lobster claws. I think theyre iconic of the era.

Well already onto the jobs. It’s got older Pilot Sports on it, which have some ok tread left on, but they’re a bit old now. So Pilot Sport 4S all round going on Friday. I don’t have experience of the old Pilots before now, but I think the 4S is a big leap on. Could always put the old ones on for a track day and finish them off! Edited by Da Original Whyayedee on Tuesday 6th December 11:07

Da Original Whyayedee said: Well already onto the jobs. It’s got older Pilot Sports on it, which have some ok tread left on, but they’re a bit old now. So Pilot Sport 4S all round going on Friday. I don’t have experience of the old Pilots before now, but I think the 4S is a big leap on. Could always put the old ones on for a track day and finish them off! Edited by Da Original Whyayedee on Tuesday 6th December 11:07 Congrats on your purchase. Have recently purchased too and also have old tyres on as car wasn’t used much in the last 3 years. It’s ‘twitchy’ in the cold wet weather which has been fun as I’ve got used to the handling, but doubtful it will come out as the frosty weather arrives. Next year the 4S’s will be due and I’ve no doubt handling will be on another level.

Love stories like this! Well done again, what a treat that must have been for you and your father.

On my R53, I went from a mixed selection on Mingebog Ditchfinder Run Flats to Pilot Sport 4's..... now that was a staggering difference.

And thanks for the comments guys, it really was an epic day, still smiling about it now, even though I am in the office today and not staring at it out of the window!

awesome man - and you got it with the best wheels in my opinion for the 997. Hope it brings a lot of driving joy over the years Da Original Whyayedee said: So, today was the day, I managed to keep it all under wraps and we got the train over. Only when we were stood infront of the barn where it was being stored I told my dad “We’ve only really come to see one car today to be honest” and the covers were pulled back “And we’re taking it back with us” man his face! Absolutely love it, don’t think it’s fully sunk in yet. Also he’s just starting on this venture but Graham at Oakley Classic Cars was an absolute pleasure to deal with and nothing was too much. Now a birthday curry, and probably some starting out of the kitchen window. Edited by Da Original Whyayedee on Monday 5th December 17:54

Yeh I wouldn't look much into WBAC valuations - thats a trade price they give and a low one too. I wouldn't even look at Autotrader / PistonHeads prices too much as some stay on sale forever, and you dont know what the actual sale prices are for car ads that get taken down. Collecting Cars show actual sale price - so thats the best way to judge where values are at. The most recents sales are at prices below - of all the different versions excluding Turbos/GT/Cabs - all cars in top notch condition: £21k - 2006 Carrera (69k miler) £35k - 2009 Carrera Gen 2 (51k miler) £23k - 2005 C2S (63k miler) £31.2k - 2009 C2S Gen 2 (82k miler) £25.2 - 2006 C4 Targa (51k miler) C4 Gen 2 (non sold) £21.2k - 2006 C4S (94k miler) £42k - 2010 C4S Gen 2 (51k miler) sniff diesel said: Seeing this thread made me look to see what my old 997.1S would be worth in the current market. I bought a 97k mile 2 owner car for £19k in 2015, sold 2 years and 6000 miles later for £19,600 but having just serviced, new tyres and brakes so didn’t actually make any money off it. Despite a WBAC valuation of £14500 similar cars on auto trader are advertised at the same as they were in 2015-17 so it would appear the 997 is still at the level where it is depreciation proof. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210100...

shuebc said: Lobster Wheels ROCK! Yeah, I was contemplating BBS CH-R's a lot, and I still think they look great too, but the lobsters really do suit this car so well. Needs some spacers though I think. They're an odd wheel, when they came out I loved them, wanted to put a set on my T5 at the time, then I fell out of love with them for a long period, now I think they suit the car perfectly again, funny how our tastes change. And its great as the £2000 allocated to new wheels can be spent on something else instead. We only have 2 Tea Bags left in the house today, and I haven't checked the local shops, but I have a hunch they are going to be out, I think the closest shop with some Yorkshire Gold on the shelves is in Abergavenny! Oh well....needs must!

Da Original Whyayedee said: shuebc said: Lobster Wheels ROCK! Yeah, I was contemplating BBS CH-R's a lot, and I still think they look great too, but the lobsters really do suit this car so well. Needs some spacers though I think. They're an odd wheel, when they came out I loved them, wanted to put a set on my T5 at the time, then I fell out of love with them for a long period, now I think they suit the car perfectly again, funny how our tastes change. And its great as the £2000 allocated to new wheels can be spent on something else instead. We only have 2 Tea Bags left in the house today, and I haven't checked the local shops, but I have a hunch they are going to be out, I think the closest shop with some Yorkshire Gold on the shelves is in Abergavenny! Oh well....needs must! Lobsters are the best

How much time is healthy researching exhausts?

Da Original Whyayedee said: How much time is healthy researching exhausts? How much time is healthy researching exhausts as a percentage of just researching cars in general?

ATM said: Da Original Whyayedee said: How much time is healthy researching exhausts? How much time is healthy researching exhausts as a percentage of just researching cars in general? Well quite. I am swaying towards Topgears Valved Mufflers and 200 Cel Cats (no x pipe) they seem to add the fruit I'd like without being too lairy, and valved too so can be muted. Any thoughts?

Da Original Whyayedee said: ATM said: Da Original Whyayedee said: How much time is healthy researching exhausts? How much time is healthy researching exhausts as a percentage of just researching cars in general? Well quite. I am swaying towards Topgears Valved Mufflers and 200 Cel Cats (no x pipe) they seem to add the fruit I'd like without being too lairy, and valved too so can be muted. Any thoughts? I had a box fresh factory standard Gen 1 S in 2005. No PSE. It sounded reasonably good. One day I left the office for lunch. When I returned the boss called me into his office. My car was parked in a spot rearward facing towards some large glass windows in the boardroom. When I started my car quite cold and sat there doing my seat belt or what not the entire meeting in the boardroom ground to a halt as no one could hear anybody. They all had to wait until I drove off before they could carry on. Another day I got stopped by the police. They told me I had been speeding. They were a bit aggressive and were driving a Subaru Impreza type unmarked car I think it was green. Anyway they claimed to have heard my car coming before they saw it as it was that loud. Obviously I explained politely that they were confused as I never exceeded the speed limit at all ever ever. Last anecdote. About a year after I had changed cars I got chatting to one of my neighbours. I didn't really know they guy. He had a Bentley W12. We got talking about cars and I mentioned I used to have a 997. He stopped me and said Yes everyone in the estate knows your car because we all heard you starting it up in the garage at 6am every morning on your way to work. Maybe the shape of the garage just boomed the noise out into the estate - not sure. So yes when the Gen 1 is cold and the revs elevated they can sound rather noisy. And also on full chat they do too. I would not think the standard exhaust needs improving upon but I am getting on a bit now and like a bit of comfort and also piece and quiet.

Don't agree! Wouldn't do without my PSE.

I just feel it needs a bit more growl.... its a bit polite

Da Original Whyayedee said: I just feel it needs a bit more growl.... its a bit polite Have you come across the "Gundo hack", aka "PSE hack"? Your existing exhaust is removed and modified by adding a bypass pipe that makes it, in effect, an always on PSE. Cost ~£400.

RiccardoG said: Da Original Whyayedee said: I just feel it needs a bit more growl.... its a bit polite Have you come across the "Gundo hack", aka "PSE hack"? Your existing exhaust is removed and modified by adding a bypass pipe that makes it, in effect, an always on PSE. Cost ~£400. Mine has this, 1" pipe I think... Sounds awesome! But quite loud all the time. I too was looking at the topgear / designtek valved exhaust and 200 cell cats as without the quiet mode, then any chance of a track day at Goodwood is zero. The 200 cell cats add a lot of noise from what I hear!

Da Original Whyayedee said: Yeah, I was contemplating BBS CH-R's a lot, and I still think they look great too, but the lobsters really do suit this car so well. Needs some spacers though I think. They're an odd wheel, when they came out I loved them, wanted to put a set on my T5 at the time, then I fell out of love with them for a long period, now I think they suit the car perfectly again, funny how our tastes change. And its great as the £2000 allocated to new wheels can be spent on something else instead. We only have 2 Tea Bags left in the house today, and I haven't checked the local shops, but I have a hunch they are going to be out, I think the closest shop with some Yorkshire Gold on the shelves is in Abergavenny! Oh well....needs must! I think Scottish Highlands have great Yorkshire Gold… but also this really great shop in the Austrian alps. As for the alloys - each to their own, do whatever you like dude. But if it was me, I’d spend that 2k on either ducktail / retrimmed steering wheel / alacantra hand break and shift trim / CarPlay, (without making new holes in the dash - as some people do). Or an exhaust maybe?

You can kinda suss it from this... I think, sounds better than stock has the bit more growl even with the valves closed.

I know this is a gen 2 - but quite tasteful. I would prefer non lowered stance. https://youtu.be/BUmH5LVaGQc

I have looked at those BC Forged wheels a lot too, they are really really nice!

ATM said: I like this one https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210140... Now for sale again with different wheels https://www.facebook.com/groups/968587889832672/pe...

ATM said: Now for sale again with different wheels https://www.facebook.com/groups/968587889832672/pe... Saw another Facebook group where people were telling him that it was priced correctly and he just needed to wait. If it isn't selling, it's either something in the history or the price...

AyBee said: ATM said: Now for sale again with different wheels https://www.facebook.com/groups/968587889832672/pe... Saw another Facebook group where people were telling him that it was priced correctly and he just needed to wait. If it isn't selling, it's either something in the history or the price... So the same guy been trying to sell it since November?

RiccardoG said: Have you come across the "Gundo hack", aka "PSE hack"? Your existing exhaust is removed and modified by adding a bypass pipe that makes it, in effect, an always on PSE. Cost ~£400. I’ve had a car that had this modification, and it was just too loud - I didn’t like it at all. I think it had been modified as the bypass valves had seized. The boxes were quite badly corroded anyway, and the seams were beginning to split, so I replaced them with a pair of DesignTek back boxes from Design911. Not too expensive, and a great sound which is just a fraction deeper than the factory boxes with the valves closed.

IREvans said: I’ve had a car that had this modification, and it was just too loud - I didn’t like it at all. I think it had been modified as the bypass valves had seized. The boxes were quite badly corroded anyway, and the seams were beginning to split, so I replaced them with a pair of DesignTek back boxes from Design911. Not too expensive, and a great sound which is just a fraction deeper than the factory boxes with the valves closed. I think it depends on the diameter pipe used for the bypass. From memory 1.5 in is just right, less and you don't get much effect and more and its too loud. Do you know what diameter pipe yours had by any chance? Good to hear re Design Tek. At 17 yrs of age I'm sure that my own boxes will be giving up the ghost soon and I'm not 100% sure I want to spend the £2k for OEM ones.