Got "The Call" (GT3 Touring)... Now Which Transmission? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi, I got a call that I had been hoping for, for a long time, this week... I've been give a slot for a GT3 Touring, delivery by end of year. Over the last 18 months, I've specced and saved 8 different configurations (mainly differences in exterior colour and calliper colours)... however I've now decided to go for a very plain and classic understated look (i.e - black callipers on a traditional Porsche colour). One thing that I am completely torn by is which transmission to go for... Manual or PDK? I've included some reasons for each option below, and while I have more reasons for the Manual, I am probably still 51% PDK vs 49% Manual :-) Would love to hear other people's opinions and points on this, as I'm sure I'm missing a few points to consider. Why Manual - Tradition / Heritage: it's a touring, and it just feels right to have it in a manual, along with it likely being the last naturally aspirated 911 - Future Value: while I don't buy cars as investments, I think the manual will be a more sought after variant in the future - Future Thrill: if i'm still lucky enough to be driving the car in 20 years time, I think the manual would be such a thrill to drive (as most other cars by then will be auto or self driving) - I Don't Track Cars: I'm not worried about the manual being a slightly slower car, as i'm not a track guy - Other Collection: I've a few other cars that are Paddle Shift, and faster, so manual could be a nice change / experience every time I take it out (which I tend to be a lot) Why PDF - Sound: I've had PDK cars before and absolutely LOVE the sound (bang) of the gear change at high revs (the auto manual blip, just isn't the same, and if manual, I rather not use the auto blip) - Other 911: I already have a classic 911 which is manual (however a completely different car) Keen to hear other people's thoughts and views, or anything else I should take into consideration. Thanks in advance for your input.

First, well done on the allocation, exciting times Unless you're planning on banging it around a track, I'd take the manual purely for the extra interaction with such an amazing machine.

Easy question: Manual.

It’s a personal preference. Whilst many things have improved efficiency in this digital age, there are some things where the ‘analogue’ engagement is still more rewarding - iPhone camera v 35mm rangefinder, fitness tracker v manual timepiece, Spotify v vinyl, automated biz jet v helicopter……… A good Manual is no concession to convenience, but it delivers a more traditional 911 feel. IMO.

If the very first point in favour of manual is not driving enjoyment, go for PDK. The points you listed for the manual do not include this. Instead you already contemplate future values ( ). One can read more heart in the point you made about sound of a PDK car, while all the points in favour of the manual are eather rational. Which is strange as most often it is the other way round. If I would put up a list, it would have 5+ reasonable points in favour of PDK, while the single point for the manual is pure driving enjoyment. Head would say PDK, heart wants a manual. You seem to be the other way around. As has been said, it‘s a personal preference. And while I wouldn‘t hesitate a single second and opt for a manual, I think you will be more happy with a PDK.

I would have thought that, unless an ‘only’ car, most people buying a GT3 would also have more comfortable/practical/everyday/luxury car(s) with some form of 2-pedal auto. So, best to select the gearbox that would provide the most pleasure for the use it will actually get. For UK road use, at sensible speeds, the manual might be more fun. But that also presses the case for a ‘classic air-cooled’ 911.

I think what is just is important if not more so is the seat choice. Having covered in excess of 7K in 992 GT3 winged and touring with buckets(pdk) and now having access to touring with sport seats and manual, i can say that the charateristics of the ride quality and handling of the car is completely transformed with sport seats. In particular if the car is not going to be tracked and used on a regular basis, sport seats are the ONLY choice to go for imo. Only covered circa 400 miles so far, but will report back once i have covered a few more miles.

guyvert1 said: First, well done on the allocation, exciting times Unless you're planning on banging it around a track, I'd take the manual purely for the extra interaction with such an amazing machine. I agree with this. Heavy track work, PDK. Otherwise manual all day long. Congratulations too. Special car

rkwm1 said: I think what is just is important if not more so is the seat choice. Having covered in excess of 7K in 992 GT3 winged and touring with buckets(pdk) and now having access to touring with sport seats and manual, i can say that the charateristics of the ride quality and handling of the car is completely transformed with sport seats. In particular if the car is not going to be tracked and used on a regular basis, sport seats are the ONLY choice to go for imo. . 100% agree. Whilst some factions will say “it’s not a GT car without buckets” or “you’ll never sell it without them”, an ever increasing number of posters are actually avoiding them. They look nice, feel good at first acquaintance, and much better on track. But, for everyday ‘touring’, the basic sports seats will offer a wider range of adjustments and comfort for easier use - including the passenger. Of course, personal preference, but had a variety of seats on 7 GT and RS models and the right seat choice is a crucial decision that is felt with every journey.

I had this debate with myself last year over a GT4 as I was lucky enough to obtain an allocation. It's supposed not be delivered any day now 🙂 I decided on the manual as my intention is to keep it forever and most importantly I wanted my kids to experience a 'proper' car when they are old enough to drive. Naturally aspirated and manual are a combination that won't be around for much longer and in GT format there is nothing better in my view. I am sure there will be times when the PDK would be better due it's speed but we can't drive that quickly on our roads in the UK nowadays and so the trade off for me is the engagement of a a manual. Good luck and either way it will be an amazing car and enjoy the experience of specifying it.

Thank you all for the input... a lot to think about, thanks.

If you're going to use it mainly as a car get the pdk; if you're going to use it mainly for special occasions get the spaniard

Geneve said: 100% agree. Whilst some factions will say “it’s not a GT car without buckets” or “you’ll never sell it without them”, an ever increasing number of posters are actually avoiding them..... That's a great point. I was tracking a few OPC GT3s over the last 2 weeks and 2 out of the 3 winged cars with 18w seats have sold (excluding the IOM anomaly). Chris Harris also made the point that he thought the bucket seat padding on the 992 was one of the reasons for the perceived harsher low speed ride quality vs his 991.2. "I'd change the padding under your ar*e" https://youtu.be/hP7LDAnofBM?t=61

Geneve said: 100% agree. Whilst some factions will say “it’s not a GT car without buckets” or “you’ll never sell it without them”, an ever increasing number of posters are actually avoiding them. They look nice, feel good at first acquaintance, and much better on track. But, for everyday ‘touring’, the basic sports seats will offer a wider range of adjustments and comfort for easier use - including the passenger. Of course, personal preference, but had a variety of seats on 7 GT and RS models and the right seat choice is a crucial decision that is felt with every journey. Agreed 100% about it bring personal preference. I think naturally of a winged car bring used more on track and therefore spec’s with PDK and bucket seats. Conversely a touring might be more for road use, so manual and Sports seats make sense. I’ve not driven the 992, but if/when I get a car (whichever type of GT3) it will be bucket seats and manual (Touring) or PDK (wing).

The manual feels like a very much a modern computer controlled manual,not slotting round the box which is really nice just the right amount of notchiness but very slick but for example changing from 1st to 2nd at full bore 9000rpm is really easy and feels like the computer is really assisting in everything modulating the throttle exactly right in working with the clutch so that it is a seamless change with instant second gear acceleration. try this in a 7GT and it feels pretty agricultural and quite painful for the tranny, clutch and general drivetrain. The downside for me with this throttle control is it won't let you blip properly when changing gear it simply doesn't respond accurately to stabs of the throttle as the clutch is depressed I find this extremely annoying as I really enjoy rev matching but the 2GT3 barely lets you participate. My 2GT3 had buckets and I swapped to 18 ways as part of my 4 seat conversion and 100% 18 ways are so much nicer with no downside unless I guess you are a big track user. The 18 ways are not even that heavy now days either.

Manual with Sports seats...will be a beautiful road car

Penguinracer said: Manual with Sports seats...will be a beautiful road car Think that also goes for the 992’T’.

Nice to have a bucket seat for the driver and sports seat for the passenger like some old AC RS models could be optioned with.

Thanks all. Another vote for the PDK would be the length of the manual gear ratio, potentially. I had a 718 Manual GT4 when they first came out, so PDK was not an option. I didn’t really love the car as much as I thought I would, mainly because the gear ratio was so long… i.e - you are doing 70mph in 2nd gear so you don’t really get a chance to drive through the gears… but apparently the PDK has shorter, due to 7 gears, etc. Can anyone confirm if the manual GT3 suffers from the same?

simoncars said: Can anyone confirm if the manual GT3 suffers from the same? "suffers" is one opinion, remember the GT3 is not a race car it is a road car which can be used on the track the manual ratios are for the autobahn, these are German cars, just like all previous manual GT cars, I recently enjoyed changing from 5th to 6th in my 7GT2 at 7000rpm at an indicated 177mph on the bahn as I surged to over 200..... we tend to forget this in the UK where as you say 2nd gear is at probably 80mph so yeah the ratios do make us suffer a bit in the UK

Yes the manual GT3 is a bit higher geared in all gears than the PDK. See below +/- 80mph in 2nd. The final drive / rear axle ratio is different for each gearbox - that's why the in-gear top speeds are different even though the ratios within the gearbox are the same for gears 1 to 4. Rear axle ratios are 3.96 manual and 4.19 PDK

Nuttcase said: Yes the manual GT3 is a bit higher geared in all gears than the PDK. See below +/- 80mph in 2nd. The final drive / rear axle ratio is different for each gearbox - that's why the in-gear top speeds are different even though the ratios within the gearbox are the same for gears 1 to 4. Rear axle ratios are 3.96 manual and 4.19 PDK Are those the 991 ratios ? I couldn't find 992 ones, hand book doesn't have them like they used to, can you give a link to their source ? Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 18th March 18:18

TB993tt said: Are those the 991 ratios ? I couldn't find 992 ones, hand book doesn't have them like they used to, can you give a link to their source ? Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 18th March 18:18 992 ratios. You can download the specification PDF from here : https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/911-gt3/en/down...

PDK does make the performance more accessible IMO. Especially in GT3 with that engine. Ratios are a useful amount shorter, as you have the extra cog combined with that 9k rev limit and with the quick shift available on the paddles or kickdown… you can rip through to redline and shift points are de-risked. Manual shift is something special and to be preserved, and whilst not the same ‘art’ that it used to be, there is achievement in getting it right and being totally in control of the machine with minimal interference from computers or systems.… Depends on how you what to use the car at the end of the day. Congrats on allocation. Edited by TDT on Saturday 18th March 18:44

simoncars said: Hi, Over the last 18 months, I've specced and saved 8 different configurations You only specced 8 configurations in 18 months!!!??? I must be well over 20 with zero chance of an allocation. Are you ready to share the exterior colour you settled on?

Nuttcase said: TB993tt said: Are those the 991 ratios ? I couldn't find 992 ones, hand book doesn't have them like they used to, can you give a link to their source ? Edited by TB993tt on Saturday 18th March 18:18 992 ratios. You can download the specification PDF from here : https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/911-gt3/en/down... Thanks

I am struggling to think of anyone saying in the past that the 6 speed box in the 991.2/992 GT3 is too long geared. When thinking about the maximum speed in each gear it's worth remembering that's 9k rpm not sub 8k rpm like in the GT4. I'd personally not be worrying about gear ratios when deciding whether to go manual or PDK. Both will be awesome.I went manual with my 991.2 and nearly five years in haven't ever thought I wish I'd gone PDK but we are all different

Having been to view a few GT3 cars, my only observation around the 18 way seats is that it could potentially feel like you are sitting in any regular 992. The buckets add that additional special feeling every time you get in to them. Admittedly, they will not be to everyone’s taste, but more importantly spec it for you. I’’d go manual if I had to choose - previous experiences - manual, PDK, manual, PDK, manual, manual, PDK, PDK. Don’t get me wrong - the PDK is a track weapon, however for more ‘normal’ driving experiences with the odd feather of the throttle the feeling of being 100% in control of the car sometimes can be alien especially when it kicks down about 3 gears and screams it’s head off

I have a PDK and sports seats, zero regrets. Access to the back space is very useful and relatively easy with the sports seats.

jh001 said: I have a PDK and sports seats, zero regrets. Access to the back space is very useful and relatively easy with the sports seats. It’s certainly a travesty that they don’t offer the folding buckets anymore - best of both worlds in many ways.

Cheib said: I'd personally not be worrying about gear ratios when deciding whether to go manual or PDK. Pros and cons to both options, but I’d certainly not be putting much weight on the gear ratios compared to all the other considerations.

Mine has 18 ways and pdk, a choice made after personal experience with previous 911 iterations. I understand the obsession with manual boxes and the ‘interaction’ that is ‘missing’ with a pdk but I have never found this to be the case. Both on track or for spirited driving on the road the pdk can be great fun with whip crack changes, auto or manual, with different driving modes adding to the mix. Around town the auto is just easier especially juggling with nose lift and speed bumps etc.! Enjoy the experience whichever way you jump.

TDT said: PDK does make the performance more accessible IMO. Especially in GT3 with that engine. Ratios are a useful amount shorter, as you have the extra cog combined with that 9k rev limit and with the quick shift available on the paddles or kickdown… you can rip through to redline and shift points are de-risked. Manual shift is something special and to be preserved, and whilst not the same ‘art’ that it used to be, there is achievement in getting it right and being totally in control of the machine with minimal interference from computers or systems.… Depends on how you what to use the car at the end of the day. Congrats on allocation. Edited by TDT on Saturday 18th March 18:44 Manuel means more fun to explore the performance,pdk is a automatic that you can lazily flick a switch,or not bother and just lounge back,why have a sports car that chooses what gear you are in.

Yellow491 said: Manuel means more fun to explore the performance,pdk is a automatic that you can lazily flick a switch,or not bother and just lounge back,why have a sports car that chooses what gear you are in. Up until the RS day I preferred a PDK on track but now prefer a Manual unless stuck in slow traffic. Really wish the 4RS had the Manual option however all reviewers have said the short geared PDKS really suits it. There is a world of difference between a standard PDK as you get in normal 992s and GT4 compared to a short geared non overdrive PDKS as found in GT3s and Gt4 RS. I hated the 8 speed PDK I had in my old 992S but loved the PDKS in the 991RS.

Taffy66 said: Up until the RS day I preferred a PDK on track but now prefer a Manual unless stuck in slow traffic. Really wish the 4RS had the Manual option however all reviewers have said the short geared PDKS really suits it. There is a world of difference between a standard PDK as you get in normal 992s and GT4 compared to a short geared non overdrive PDKS as found in GT3s and Gt4 RS. I hated the 8 speed PDK I had in my old 992S but loved the PDKS in the 991RS. @Taffy66 - perhaps the 718-R is what you need?

gt4rs.wp said: @Taffy66 - perhaps the 718-R is what you need? What I NEED and what I WANT seem to get mixed up.

Yellow491 said: Manuel means more fun to explore the performance,pdk is a automatic that you can lazily flick a switch,or not bother and just lounge back,why have a sports car that chooses what gear you are in. With PDK-S you can still choose which gear you are in.

After 30+ years of manuals i went pdk with my .2 gt3. As addressed above a lot of people seem to Ignore that you can change gear yourself with pdk . I understand the argument for manual transmission on the road but I actually found that with pdk you can exploit the engine easier . Over a period of time the manual will hold its value better better usually as they are less popular and therefore rarer but I don’t know if that is true for the 992. The seats are highly personal ,I wouldn’t buy another car with buckets again unless it was exclusively for track work. Buy whatever makes you happy ,whatever you do don’t spec a car to impress weirdos on the internet ,every time I’ve been told ‘it must be this or that ‘ I ended up with a car I didn’t enjoy .

Geneve said: rkwm1 said: I think what is just is important if not more so is the seat choice. Having covered in excess of 7K in 992 GT3 winged and touring with buckets(pdk) and now having access to touring with sport seats and manual, i can say that the charateristics of the ride quality and handling of the car is completely transformed with sport seats. In particular if the car is not going to be tracked and used on a regular basis, sport seats are the ONLY choice to go for imo. . 100% agree. Whilst some factions will say “it’s not a GT car without buckets” or “you’ll never sell it without them”, an ever increasing number of posters are actually avoiding them. They look nice, feel good at first acquaintance, and much better on track. But, for everyday ‘touring’, the basic sports seats will offer a wider range of adjustments and comfort for easier use - including the passenger. Of course, personal preference, but had a variety of seats on 7 GT and RS models and the right seat choice is a crucial decision that is felt with every journey. + 1 from me too

As all my GT3s are manual, I am of course biased. The gearing in both 1.2 and 2.1 iterations suits the car and the engine IMO. It not only works on the German autobahn but also on narrower and twistier roads. Just went for a morning drive over local B roads today and there was never a moment I wished gearing to be different.

Firstly congrats on your allocation. For me, on a Touring, it would be PDK and sport seats. On a Winged GT3 it would be LWBS and PDK. I just love the PDK.

simoncars said: Hi, I got a call that I had been hoping for, for a long time, this week... I've been give a slot for a GT3 Touring, delivery by end of year. Over the last 18 months, I've specced and saved 8 different configurations (mainly differences in exterior colour and calliper colours)... however I've now decided to go for a very plain and classic understated look (i.e - black callipers on a traditional Porsche colour). One thing that I am completely torn by is which transmission to go for... Manual or PDK? I've included some reasons for each option below, and while I have more reasons for the Manual, I am probably still 51% PDK vs 49% Manual :-) Would love to hear other people's opinions and points on this, as I'm sure I'm missing a few points to consider. Why Manual - Tradition / Heritage: it's a touring, and it just feels right to have it in a manual, along with it likely being the last naturally aspirated 911 - It's unlikely to be the last naturally aspirated 911, they'll keep making them for a while yet probably as hybrids down the line but most likely after 992.2 - Future Value: while I don't buy cars as investments, I think the manual will be a more sought after variant in the future - Perhaps, but not likely to the extent it makes the decision for you - Future Thrill: if i'm still lucky enough to be driving the car in 20 years time, I think the manual would be such a thrill to drive (as most other cars by then will be auto or self driving) if this is the only car you are keeping for 20 years from now, yeah probably make it a manual - I Don't Track Cars: I'm not worried about the manual being a slightly slower car, as i'm not a track guy Same here, fair enough - Other Collection: I've a few other cars that are Paddle Shift, and faster, so manual could be a nice change / experience every time I take it out (which I tend to be a lot) Yeah thought that one too Why PDF - Sound: I've had PDK cars before and absolutely LOVE the sound (bang) of the gear change at high revs (the auto manual blip, just isn't the same, and if manual, I rather not use the auto blip) - Does sound good on a change - Other 911: I already have a classic 911 which is manual (however a completely different car) - Same here and I primary reason I went PDK. It there's no other manual in your life then maybe you have to have it, but if there is.. I would also add that there is the odd time when you are tired and stuck in traffic and you just get sick of bloody engaging the clutch all the time (if you live anywhere near a city). I've been in bad traffic in my PDK at night and happy for it. Keen to hear other people's thoughts and views, or anything else I should take into consideration. Thanks in advance for your input. Personally I went PDK and sports seats because I use mine almost as a daily, I don't really miss the manual. To respond directly to what you have written I've typed some comments above.

Thank you for all of the above, it is much appreciated

I popped down to my local OPC, East London, yesterday for a gander of the latest stock. Wow, aren’t Porsches huge these days? They had Cayennes, whale like Taycans, Macans, a couple of Turbo S’, Turbos S convertible, Turbo, Boxster and Caymans. They even had a US import 912. To my eyes the best looking car by some margin was a Crayon 992 GT3 Touring. This car stood out as elegant and well proportioned of the lot. I think they have a different front bumper to the Turbo and others. The Turbo S cabriolet looked good as well but not as nice as the Touring. Nice choice.

Did somebody say crayon GT3 Touring:

Lovely decision to have to make OP! I'd go manual as I just like them, but it's 100% personal preference so I don't really think you can get this one wrong.