981 Boxster vs 987 Cayman S - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I drove my Cayman S up to Silverstone today along the A413, and I drove back in a 981 Boxster loan car. I really like it. I shall reserve my final view until I have driven it for a few hundred miles (rather than about 70 or so, albeit a mix of town, A road and a bit of motorway so quite a good opportunity to test it). My impressions:- (1) It is noticeably bigger inside (or at least feels so). The external dimensions (if changed at all) are similar enough that it is no less widely along typical English roads. (2) The 2.7 engine is a bloody peach! I am not sure whether I prefer it to the 3.4, but I certainly wouldn't call it a clear second. It is very happy to rev above 4000rpm; it feels a bit zingier than the 3.4 at high revs. On the downside (if it is a downside), it has almost nothing low down the rev range and only really feels fast when you are 'on it' - the rest of the time, it pulls well enough but shows no signs of being quick. If you want a car that feels quick at 3-4000 revs, look elsewhere! But it's a lovely engine. (3) Handling - it is massively overtyred on 19s. The torque to grip ratio is silly. One big problem - the steering is a huge step backwards from the 987. No steering feel at all beyond a bit of patter. It's a huge loss, in my view. Otherwise, it handles very nicely and suffers little from being an open top. (4) Ride. Pretty much identical to my 987. Aside from there being a bit more flex and it feeling a touch less 'tied down' (which I assume is just because it's an open car, rather than the platform changes), it is hard to distinguish from my daily. Perhaps a little bit softer and absorbs small bumps better, but a far smaller difference than I was expecting. (5) Brakes. Contrary to what I have read on here, I don't find them over-assisted or Audi-like. The level of assistance is fine (even though I do prefer a bit more firmness). The problem is, as with the steeering, a loss of feel. The brakes are nice and progressive still, but the pedal didn't tell me much. The brakes in my 987 somehow feel more 'mechanical' , if that makes sense. (6) Gearchange and clutch. Very nice. Box is fairly short throw and mechanical-feeling. Clutch is fine (if perhaps slightly soft). I drive a PDK so cannot compare it directly, but it's a pleasure to use. (7) Gearing. It's bonkers, but we all know that. The upside in the 2.7 is that it just means you have to keep it in 2nd and make the engine sing. 3rd is barely an accelerating gear anywhere but the motorway, and 4,5 and 6 are all cruising gears. After my first long drive in a 981, I can say two big things. First, it is nowhere near as different from the 987 as people make out - it isn't now just like an Audi; it is fundamentally a very similar drive. Secondly, it is not, in my view, a step forward: the loss of steering feel is fatal for me, and it is otherwise extremely similar to drive. Oh yeah, it has nice stuff like sat nav (which worked fine) and cruise control (quite a good one) that my car doesn't. But I wouldn't pay a penny more for that stuff in a sports car. If it's free, great; but it's not going to make me love the car. The interior feels slightly lower quality than the 987, but it is certainly more modern and a bit more 'bling'. The boggo steering wheel looks horridly cheap compared to the multi whatsit one in my car.

I often have a trip out to my nearest OPC in my 987 s and have a nose around the 981's. Just can't get excited about them, the bigger body and wheels seems pointless and the often talked about steering feel and long gearing issues just puts me off more. Would be nice if a 981 owner would put there case for it being a better sports car but usually it seems the comments are more about looks and how the cabin quality is better!

PR36 said: I often have a trip out to my nearest OPC in my 987 s and have a nose around the 981's. Just can't get excited about them, the bigger body and wheels seems pointless and the often talked about steering feel and long gearing issues just puts me off more. Would be nice if a 981 owner would put there case for it being a better sports car but usually it seems the comments are more about looks and how the cabin quality is better! The cabin is more modern and impressive to the typical car buyer - e.g. my youngest brother loved it (because he loves all the tech and bling). But I cannot see the argument that it is better quality - the leather definitely looks and feels thinner, and the plastics are no better (and in some places worse). I think it is a toss up as to whether the 987 cabin was better than the 986, too - the older interiors are simpler, more basic, but also solid and more "sporting". I think I understated how nice the box is. It's a really good unit. The gear ratios are utterly insane, and I now know what that guy meant about keeping up in traffic - I drove in to Central London in the 981 today, and it really does need revving just to pootle about!

I have just come from a supercharged GT86 to an ex-demo 981 2.7 PDK. I have in the past had SL350 and SLK55AMG. I had considered such cars as RS3, S3 etc etc but they would just be a re-incarnation of my wifes last car (A3 2.0T FSI petrol) and I would soon get bored. Had never driven a Porsche or been in a Porsche dealer before. The test drive sold it for me, the 981 for me ticks all the boxes. I have 20" wheels, full electric leather heated seats etc. The ride is firm but comfortable, the cabin is quiet and better than a Merc. It`s a nice place to be. You can cruise around in comfort or play silly ar$e on the many great Sussex "B" roads near me. For me it is a great multi purpose car. Perhaps I am the type of customer they are now aiming for ? If you want to experience cheap interior drive a GT86 for 2.5 years. I threw loads of money at it (supercharger, coil overs, body kit etc) but at the end of the day it was still a Toyota and the interior really cheesed me off.

yes ideal buyer ;-) the issue all us 987.2 owners have is the new car does not feel like a true sports car, imo the 987.2 did give you that feeling you were in a sports car. it's that simple.

I'm currently in a 981 Boxster loaner while my 981 Cayman S is in for warranty work for the 4th time. The Boxster is on 18's and I have 20's on mine so the ride is a bit more comfortable but I never thought my Cayman S was uncomfortable, I think the trade off for the better looks of the bigger wheels is worthwhile. Driving on the same Surrey roads on my work commute I can defo feel a slight shimmy through the steering wheel, my loose fitting watch jiggles a bit and it doesn't in the Cayman, otherwise it feels admirably stiff. I find the 2.7 fine, it sounds great with the roof down, I imagine it would sound epic with PSE. PDK shifts are so quick that you are never really caught out in the wrong gear, just let it rev. It would annoy me just knowing the latest breed of hot hatches seriously outgun it though. The biggest difference I've noticed is that I feel very exposed with the roof down, I don't really want people at traffic lights to see my bottle of Diet Coke or judge me by the sunnies I'm wearing. I guess you would get used to it after a while.

PorscheGT4 said: yes ideal buyer ;-) the issue all us 987.2 owners have is the new car does not feel like a true sports car, imo the 987.2 did give you that feeling you were in a sports car. it's that simple. Don't fool yourself. As a past owner of 987/1 (two Boxster S) a 987/2 (CaymanS PDK) and a 997/2 Carrera S PDK I can assure you the 981 is every inch as good if not better sports car than the models that preceded it. There is a lot of nonsense spoken about the electric steering, it is 98% as good as the hydraulic system. After a few miles I would defy anyone to tell the difference. The body of both 981's (Boxster and Cayman) is more rigid than the past models making the handling as precise whilst being able to make the ride more compliant. It's faster, more economical, better built, better looking ( a matter of personal taste of course) but a more masculine style....every aspect of the car - with the exception of the steering - is an improvement - and more of an improvement than 987 / 997 were over the previous 986 / 996, as 987 / 997 were heavily revised versions of the earlier car. 981 / 991 is all new from the ground up, and benefitted from a huge R&D investment that Porsche simply could not afford when 986, 996, 987 and 997 were produced. Edited by dreamcar on Thursday 28th May 11:34

dreamcar said: Don't fool yourself. As a past owner of 987/1 (two Boxster S) a 987/2 (CaymanS PDK) and a 997/2 Carrera S PDK I can assure you the 981 is every inch as good if not better sports car than the models that preceded it. There is a lot of nonsense spoken about the electric steering, it is 98% as good as the hydraulic system. After a few miles I would defy anyone to tell the difference. The body of both 981's (Boxster and Cayman) is more rigid than the past models making the handling as precise whilst being able to make the ride more compliant. It's faster, more economical, better built, better looking ( a matter of personal taste of course) but a more masculine style....every aspect of the car - with the exception of the steering - is an improvement - and more of an improvement than 987 / 997 were over the previous 986 / 996, as 987 / 997 were heavily revised versions of the earlier car. 981 / 991 is all new from the ground up, and benefitted from a huge R&D investment that Porsche simply could not afford when 986, 996, 987 and 997 were produced. Edited by dreamcar on Thursday 28th May 11:34 The steering is a notable step down in turns of feel. I would say that it is the biggest single difference between the cars - the 987's steering is hardly the most feelsome set up in the World, but it is good enough; the 981 EPAS is closer to BMW than Porsche steering - nice and accurate but without any feel beyond patter. I defy anyone to have a clue from the wheel what the road surface or front end grip is like. Rigidity is a marketing thing, primarily, as the 987 was hardly soft. Unless you are at 140mph, the difference is barely perceptible, if at all. And the engines are as near as can be to identical - just tweaked. There is, what, about 10bhp difference from the 987.2 to the 981? As I said, it surprised me how similar the 981 is to the 987.2. Aside from the facts that it is roomier and has less steering feel, the differences are either subjective (looks) or minor (performance being better and brakes being a little worse). Having driven the Boxster again this morning, the 2.7 feels slower in normal driving than it does on a fastish drive - it suffers a lot from feeling underpowered at low revs.

To be fair, I have almost no experience of the 987 Boxster (having only been a passenger), so you may be right that the 981 B is noticeably more rigid. I remember reading that the 981 B is much closer to the Cayman in that regard than the 987 was.

ORD said: Rigidity is a marketing thing, primarily, as the 987 was hardly soft. Unless you are at 140mph, the difference is barely perceptible, if at all. And the engines are as near as can be to identical - just tweaked. There is, what, about 10bhp difference from the 987.2 to the 981? . Disagree with you about rigidity, it's not at V-max where you notice the improvement in rigidity, it's when driving even quite moderately down a challenging but uneven road, in the 981 Boxster there is noticeably less body "flex" than existed in 987 - as much as anything with the roof up there is a noticeably less squeaking between the top and screen rail as the body moves and the car does feel more secure and precise. This alone more than makes up for any steering deficiency. And having had modern BMW's the 981 steering feel and precision is far superior. Downsides comparing 987 and 981 Boxster? Little details, I miss the handy little storeage box on the bulkhead behind the seats, I think there is more buffeting from the wind at speed, and I suspect the rear boot is not quite as deep (fwd - aft) as the 987's was. Need to try to see if two aircraft size cabin bags fit, they did in 987 not convinced they will in 981. Edited by dreamcar on Thursday 28th May 15:00

dreamcar said: Don't fool yourself. As a past owner of 987/1 (two Boxster S) a 987/2 (CaymanS PDK) and a 997/2 Carrera S PDK I can assure you the 981 is every inch as good if not better sports car than the models that preceded it. There is a lot of nonsense spoken about the electric steering, it is 98% as good as the hydraulic system. why would I buy something only 98% as good when I have 100% as is ? If you like it that's great, I hate it, my Ford has better steering feel than a 981.

PorscheGT4 said: why would I buy something only 98% as good when I have 100% as is ? If you like it that's great, I hate it, my Ford has better steering feel than a 981. Only the steering is 98% as good. All the other improvements far outweigh that. Your Ford has better steering than a 981? Only if it is a GT40.

dreamcar said: Only the steering is 98% as good. All the other improvements far outweigh that. Your Ford has better steering than a 981? Only if it is a GT40. you like it I don't, you own what you like , I own what I like :-) every ones happy, I don't see any other improvments either, quite a few things are not as nice inc the shape/lines even LONGER gearing, 20" wheels etc etc the list goes on. But serious my Ford does have more feel esp central feel than a 981 sorry to say.

PorscheGT4 said: you like it I don't, you own what you like , I own what I like :-) every ones happy, I don't see any other improvments either, quite a few things are not as nice inc the shape/lines even LONGER gearing, 20" wheels etc etc the list goes on. But serious my Ford does have more feel esp central feel than a 981 sorry to say. Yeah, whatever if that's what you want to believe.....

dreamcar said: Yeah, whatever if that's what you want to believe..... I do ;-)

PorscheGT4 said: But serious my Ford does have more feel esp central feel than a 981 sorry to say. I'm sorry to have to agree with you about the 981 steering. Can't speak for your Ford, but it's definitely better on my wife's Suzuki Swift Sport. That said it does depend on the wheel/tyre combination. I have 19" and Pzeros and feel is disappointing, definitely better on 18s with Goodyear Eagles and much the same as the 19s on a couple of 20" shod cars I've driven (I foolishly forgot to check the tyre make). It's also noticeably better (but not great) with the 19s when PASM is set to Sport. How big an issue it is, is very personal. As an ex Elise owner it's probably the most disappointing thing about the car for me (perhaps apart for the bloody handbrake).

bcr5784 said: I'm sorry to have to agree with you about the 981 steering. Can't speak for your Ford, but it's definitely better on my wife's Suzuki Swift Sport. That said it does depend on the wheel/tyre combination. I have 19" and Pzeros and feel is disappointing, definitely better on 18s with Goodyear Eagles and much the same as the 19s on a couple of 20" shod cars I've driven (I foolishly forgot to check the tyre make). It's also noticeably better (but not great) with the 19s when PASM is set to Sport. How big an issue it is, is very personal. As an ex Elise owner it's probably the most disappointing thing about the car for me (perhaps apart for the bloody handbrake). yes as I stated, like us both past Elise owners the 981 steering is unforgivable. but from a Merc owner it might be just fine.

PorscheGT4 said: But serious my Ford does have more feel esp central feel than a 981 sorry to say. Why are you sorry to say? Don't be sorry....you are happy with what you have...you only need to be sorry for yourself if you've been stupid enough to order an 981 with steering you clearly hate. But you wouldn't do that now.,,,,would you?

FrankCayman said: Why are you sorry to say? Don't be sorry....you are happy with what you have...you only need to be sorry for yourself if you've been stupid enough to order an 981 with steering you clearly hate. But you wouldn't do that now.,,,,would you? nope only after the motorsport dept have fixed it :-p

PorscheGT4 said: nope only after the motorsport dept have fixed it :-p When did you drive it?

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/rolleyes.gif https://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/rolleyes.gif https://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/rolleyes.gif https://www.pistonheads.com/inc/images/rolleyes.gif

I can't understand the negativity towards the 981. I switched from a Spyder to a 981 S and from 20k miles in them I feel I'm in a decent position to pass comments. Firstly lets establish how much better a Spyder drove than a standard 987. My answer is lots!!! Does anyone disagree? Secondly on the roads in my area, which Evo Magazine state are the best in the UK for enthusiasts, the Spyder is ever so slightly better than my 20" wheeled 981 S. However there's absolutely no way a Spyder would pull away from a well driven 981. For the rest of the time when 10/10ths isn't the required driving mode, the 981 is simply in a different league to live with. Less scuttle shake over the Spyder, which had much less than a standard 987 in my opinion, more comfortable, quieter and a very relaxing place to enjoy a long journey. For me though the ultimate Boxster would have to be the best bits of a 981, mixed with the Spyders best bits and a bit more power. Happily my new Spyder will be built in October and arrive in time for Xmas. I'm quite sure that it'll be the best Boxster ever!

None of these cars are going to pull away from each other, you need 100bhp to notice a big change. So that just leaves feel and the 987.2 cars have that over the 981, it's that simple. The 981 may be a better car in all areas, but people who have come from an Elise, Atom, Caterham etc which are many Spyders owners, the 981 just don't cut it. If you are coming from any mainstream brand it's going to feel amazing, it's a great car. The market was tiny for the Spyder and the R with only 400 cars sold in total. And as many know I had to adjust mine to be more focused even then.

PorscheGT4 said: None of these cars are going to pull away from each other, you need 100bhp to notice a big change. So that just leaves feel and the 987.2 cars have that over the 981, it's that simple. The 981 may be a better car in all areas, but people who have come from an Elise, Atom, Caterham etc which are many Spyders owners, the 981 just don't cut it. If you are coming from any mainstream brand it's going to feel amazing, it's a great car. The market was tiny for the Spyder and the R with only 400 cars sold in total. And as many know I had to adjust mine to be more focused even then. Just to clarify my position. Yes, the steering of the 981 is seriously deficient. But ANY modern Porsche is a numb tank compared with an Elise, Atom or Caterham If you want a REALLY focused sportscar get one (and accept the serious compromise that results) - but Porsche don't make one. If you want a well rounded DD sporting car the 981 is a great choice - despite its steering. Which is why I bought one. Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 28th May 22:18

bcr5784 said: PorscheGT4 said: None of these cars are going to pull away from each other, you need 100bhp to notice a big change. So that just leaves feel and the 987.2 cars have that over the 981, it's that simple. The 981 may be a better car in all areas, but people who have come from an Elise, Atom, Caterham etc which are many Spyders owners, the 981 just don't cut it. If you are coming from any mainstream brand it's going to feel amazing, it's a great car. The market was tiny for the Spyder and the R with only 400 cars sold in total. And as many know I had to adjust mine to be more focused even then. Just to clarify my position. Yes, the steering of the 981 is seriously deficient. But ANY modern Porsche is a numb tank compared with an Elise, Atom or Caterham If you want a REALLY focused sportscar get one (and accept the serious compromise that results) - but Porsche don't make one. If you want a well rounded DD sporting car the 981 is a great choice - despite its steering. Which is why I bought one. Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 28th May 22:18 I agree with bcr...also had an Elise ...plus came out of a 987.2 Cayman after covering 90,000 miles...and love the 981. But I am glad to read Mr Demons comment 'If you are coming from any mainstream brand it's going to feel amazing, it's a great car. '.... this is also true. I think people need to be reminded that there still is a huge gap between a 981 and the boring, countless niche products that Merc, BMW and Audi seem to be knocking out these days. Porsches are still very special.....

bcr5784 said: Just to clarify my position. Yes, the steering of the 981 is seriously deficient. But ANY modern Porsche is a numb tank compared with an Elise, Atom or Caterham If you want a REALLY focused sportscar get one (and accept the serious compromise that results) - but Porsche don't make one. If you want a well rounded DD sporting car the 981 is a great choice - despite its steering. Which is why I bought one. Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 28th May 22:18 This^^ a lot. And just to add another 2p worth, I'd wager that in a blindfolded test (not safe but hey ) driving a variety HPAS and EPAS Porsches back to back, 99% of people here wouldn't be able to reliably say which ones were EPAs and which were HPAS. In fact, I'm sure if someone handed a 981 to us and lied to us saying it had a retro HPAS system installed, we'd probably wax lyrical on the improvement over the EPAS system and make tits of ourselves

Mario149 said: This^^ a lot. And just to add another 2p worth, I'd wager that in a blindfolded test (not safe but hey ) driving a variety HPAS and EPAS Porsches back to back, 99% of people here wouldn't be able to reliably say which ones were EPAs and which were HPAS. In fact, I'm sure if someone handed a 981 to us and lied to us saying it had a retro HPAS system installed, we'd probably wax lyrical on the improvement over the EPAS system and make tits of ourselves But PAS vs manual? The real thing is that EPAS is more difficult to get right than HPAS and the 981's EPAS really isn't that special an example of the breed. I'd wager that any racing driver (and the vast majority of keen drivers) could get tell the difference between an Elise and any PAS Porsche blindfold. And between any manual Porsche 911 and PAS 911 Porsche too. Can't speak for everyone - people buy Porsches (in particular) for all sorts of reasons not associated with their driving appeal - but I'd be astonished if even 99% of them couldn't make those distinctions. But if they can't it's a measure of how far Porsche's clients (if not their cars) have become more interested in the car's image than its driving characteristics.

It should be ok in theory . Porsche screwed up the programming on early cars and every model is better than the last. Gt4 said to be even better than the Gt3. Fingers crossed they have nailed it now. No ones moaned much about the GT3 system.

anonymous said: [redacted] I agree and feel the same. My 987 is already a step away from what I want, and the 981 is better in ways that don't matter to me (faster, more economical) and worse in ways that do (steering feel). I suspect that my tastes fall somewhere closer to a 993 given that I keep asking myself whether I actually want a lotus (I never actually go so far as to prepare to buy one, but it shows what my tastes are). The steering feel debate is weird. The difference is really very very noticeable if you are used to driving with a deliberate awareness of the feedback from the car. Just like you can diagnose that something has gone wrong with the dampers even if you arent technically minded enough to say quite what. The loss of brake feel is more marginal but it does grate after a while.

bcr5784 said: But PAS vs manual? That's definitely a difference I like to think we could all notice I just get very frustrated when people bang on about how crap EPAS compared to HPAS. I've got a 993, a 7.1 GT3 (both of which I take on track) and an inbound Boxster GTS that I spent half a day in at PEC Silverstone. Are they different? Yes. Is it a massive issue in real life? No. Do they all steer bloody well? Yes. Methinks that sometimes people have been watching a few too many Chris Harris or Evo videos where they bang on about HPAS/EPAS endlessly because the cars are so good and that have to find *something* to complain about, and steering feel is a more petrolhead thing to whinge about than boot space.

anonymous said: [redacted] It'd be an interesting test to see whether we could, but I think you give most of us too much credit. IME just changing the geo so it's correct (or what you like for what you use the car for) can have a bigger effect than an HPAS/EPAS difference in terms of feel of the wheel in your hands. I get my cars geo-ed every year so have a fair idea of how they all should drive. I suspect a lot of people don't even have that baseline

Mario149 said: That's definitely a difference I like to think we could all notice I just get very frustrated when people bang on about how crap EPAS compared to HPAS. I've got a 993, a 7.1 GT3 (both of which I take on track) and an inbound Boxster GTS that I spent half a day in at PEC Silverstone. Are they different? Yes. Is it a massive issue in real life? No. Do they all steer bloody well? Yes. Methinks that sometimes people have been watching a few too many Chris Harris or Evo videos where they bang on about HPAS/EPAS endlessly because the cars are so good and that have to find *something* to complain about, and steering feel is a more petrolhead thing to whinge about than boot space. I said it was crap years ago like I say long ratios are a pain, it seems to take a few years befor people agree and for jurno's to start writing about both issue. But the steering is a real issue over the older cars, looking at the RS vid and gt4 vid though they may have got the software right . In a non GT car the steering stops me buying one full stop and while it may be ok to some, when I get back in my cars after a loan car, it's quite shocking. And to not know you would have to be dead. Like wise too much feed back was also not a good thing, the 996 GT3 cannot cope on UK B roads the steering gets knocked all over the place to a point it starts to get out of control Lotus are also not the best but a close 2nd to Noble who nailed the steering in the 3r and the ride. You seem to have to re geo every lotus as they are still scared to give you a dialled in car and just sell under steering annoyance out the box, it's annoying you have to re geo the car to work in that sector market ! I am waiting to see the 540s they have put real arb back on the car and NOT put in electric steering . Could be a very nice super car.

Mario149 said: This^^ a lot. And just to add another 2p worth, I'd wager that in a blindfolded test (not safe but hey ) driving a variety HPAS and EPAS Porsches back to back, 99% of people here wouldn't be able to reliably say which ones were EPAs and which were HPAS. In fact, I'm sure if someone handed a 981 to us and lied to us saying it had a retro HPAS system installed, we'd probably wax lyrical on the improvement over the EPAS system and make tits of ourselves On reflection having had a cup of tea and walked the dog, the above may have been a little flippant. Thinking about it, I do think most of us could tell the difference if we literally drove the same car back to back with EPAS and HPAS if we were told which one was which, but between models/years I think it would be a lot more difficult. And if you added a couple of days gap between drives, more difficult still. All assuming/tyres etc were the same

PorscheGT4 said: In a non GT car the steering stops me buying one full stop and while it may be ok to some, when I get back in my cars after a loan car, it's quite shocking. And to not know you would have to be dead. Interestingly I was going to mention this. For people who do ensure their cars drive correctly, I'm sure loaners are always a bit disappointing - you get out of your well kept, set up as you like it vehicle that's going in for a service, and in return, they give you a loaner that probably hasn't seen an alignment machine since it left the factory and in the meantime has been thrashed over bumpy roads/potholes etc for a few thousand test drive miles. It's not wonder that the loaner doesn't quite live up to expectations, EPAS or not

I find the 981 steering is "ok" and "pleasant" as a car to get from A to B but you're kidding yourself if you think it's more engaging/fun/sporty/whatever then a 987. That said the 987 steering isn't perfect in my opinion, it took me 6 months to accept the variable power assistance b ks, I much prefer the steering in my FWD Ford.

It is not a marginal thing. If the 987 is a 7/10 for steering feel, the 981 is a 5/10 and a BMW 3 series is 2/10. I think people confuse the car steering nicely (which the 981 does - the actual responses are very similar to a 987) and having feel in the steering.

ORD said: It is not a marginal thing. If the 987 is a 7/10 for steering feel, the 981 is a 5/10 and a BMW 3 series is 2/10. I think people confuse the car steering nicely (which the 981 does - the actual responses are very similar to a 987) and having feel in the steering. Agree. Take Chris Harris's review of the PASM 981S on launch - he says he can put the car where he wants, which is different from praising the actual feel/sensations of the steering. I have heard speccing the sport chassis improves the feel. Does anyone know how much the steering feel has improved through software since launch? I just can't see Porsche getting the steering wrong on the spyder or GT4 (perhaps GT4 owners can comment?). It's been 3 years or so since the 981 was launched so I would hope that things have improved a little with each model year. Aside from the actual development of the technology, I think a wider issue is that many buyers probably don't want to feel every last bit of the road - remember a lot of boxster get sold to wives of bankers living in Chelsea who just want a bit of a fun drive for the weekend!

anonymous said: [redacted] Hey cmoose, totally agree with your thinking but my reasoning is based on the fact that no one seems to complain about the 991 GT3 steering. I agree stuff like downsizing engines (and in fact the change to electric steering) etc is not to benefit the customer but to meet EU emissions targets etc.

The mk1 mx5 I had for a while shifted better than my 987.1!

The shift is good. Not great. But definitely good.

anonymous said: [redacted] Maybe for you, but like I said before, I think a lot of people on here would struggle. It's not a criticism of them, just that yourself and other people who post vocally about it are probably in the minority and have more experience/more attention to detail in this area in the same way that someone who is really into detailing could critique increasing/decreasing paint quality where the rest of us would just think it's looks great.

TB303 said: Does anyone know how much the steering feel has improved through software since launch? I just can't see Porsche getting the steering wrong on the spyder or GT4 (perhaps GT4 owners can comment?). It's been 3 years or so since the 981 was launched so I would hope that things have improved a little with each model year. Does anyone know if it's the sort of thing where the dealer can just upload the latest software version at service time?

you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol. my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it. I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it. https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4 Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45

PorscheGT4 said: you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol. my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it. I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it. https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4 Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45 I think the 981 which was like that must have had a fault. I have driven half a dozen 981s (all Caymans but I would expect the Boxster to be almost identical) and none of them have had any play at all. Although I am very critical of the (lack of) feel, I would not criticise the accuracy. The steering is a bit rubbery (wheel/tyre dependent) - but there isn't any slack. It is very easy to put the car where you want it - but the state of the road surface is largely hidden. My car is 12 months old and most of the cars I have driven have been similarly old with a variety of wheel sizes and tyre fitments. I'm not sure how much newer cars have changed. It was said by Porsche that steering feel had been improved on the GT4, and although most reports I've seen mentioned the CLAIM, I don't recall any saying that they actually noticed any improvement. The only solution is to such it and see how big a deal it is to you personally.

bcr5784 said: I think the 981 which was like that must have had a fault. I have driven half a dozen 981s (all Caymans but I would expect the Boxster to be almost identical) and none of them have had any play at all. Although I am very critical of the (lack of) feel, I would not criticise the accuracy. The steering is a bit rubbery (wheel/tyre dependent) - but there isn't any slack. It is very easy to put the car where you want it - but the state of the road surface is largely hidden. My car is 12 months old and most of the cars I have driven have been similarly old with a variety of wheel sizes and tyre fitments. I'm not sure how much newer cars have changed. It was said by Porsche that steering feel had been improved on the GT4, and although most reports I've seen mentioned the CLAIM, I don't recall any saying that they actually noticed any improvement. The only solution is to such it and see how big a deal it is to you personally. The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there. It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.

I did the GTS vip day and while much better than the vid, it was still not good enough for this type of car for me. the RS and GT4 have new software over the GT3, so one can hope it's better, as GTS vs GT3 is a big change. I am ok with Audi feel, As you can still feel it and there is no play, It's the play I hate and dead spot in the straight ahead and the way it weights up mid bend, you loose feel in the wet. My ford ST has EPAS and it's fine, no play, no dead sport and nice weight, while not like my 987.2 steering it's still better than even the Porsche GTS feel ! I would expect the motorsport dept to make sure these new GT cars feel ok.

ORD said: The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there. It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why. so the wheel does not move if you hit a bump, makes for a nice drive on UK roads ;-)

PorscheGT4 said: ORD said: The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there. It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why. so the wheel does not move if you hit a bump, makes for a nice drive on UK roads ;-) Sounds like some of you have experienced cars that are seriously bad. Just checked my car - not the slightest bit of play about the straight ahead. And while there is far less feel than I would like, I can feel raised white lines - but only reliably with PASM in sport mode - or cats eyes. I can't see why EPAS cars should have any more play than HPAS ones. The connection between steering wheel itself and the front wheels is actually functionally no different - the wheel connects to the column, which drives the pinion which drives the rack, which turns the wheels. The rack is "assisted" either by a hydraulic pump acting directly on the rack or, in the case of electric steering acting on the rack or the steering column. Neither assistance system itself should introduce play in the system since it acts in parallel with the existing system, not in series.

PorscheGT4 said: you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol. my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it. I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it. https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4 Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45 That video is exactly how my old (2010) Audi S3 was, I must admit it wasn't nearly that bad in the GTS I drove at Silverstone but it still felt lifeless nonetheless.

PorscheGT4 said: you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol. my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it. I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it. https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4 Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45 The video doesn't really show that. Had you moved the steering wheel 2" and held it there and nothing had happened then it would have. All that video showed that it was (definitely) slow to respond, and it's actually pretty clear that it is starting to respond before you apply opposite lock. Not good, I'd agree, but let's be analytical.

bcr5784 said: The video doesn't really show that. Had you moved the steering wheel 2" and held it there and nothing had happened then it would have. All that video showed that it was (definitely) slow to respond, and it's actually pretty clear that it is starting to respond before you apply opposite lock. Not good, I'd agree, but let's be analytical. Maybe but still unforgiveable. That kind of thing simply kills a car for some people. The steering in my wife's BMW ruins the car for the same reason - no bloody feel and a dead spot just off straight ahead. The 981 steering is better than that, but my point is that feel is really important to some people. I don't agree with cmoose re the brakes - to my foot, the level of assistance isn't masively different.

ORD said: Maybe but still unforgiveable. That kind of thing simply kills a car for some people. The 981 steering is better than that, but my point is that feel is really important to some people. I don't agree with cmoose re the brakes - to my foot, the level of assistance isn't masively different. Feel is REALLY important to me - I'm just trying to better understand what people are saying - and if possible, understand why it may be happening. My own car with PASM set to normal CAN be slow to respond to the steering. It's after a period of calm driving. I suspect it's because the electronics have set the dampers to the soft end of their range - it doesn't happen in Sport mode (when even in the softest setting the damping is much stiffer). The good thing about PASM is that it adapts to road conditions and driving style - but it does mean it can get caught out on occasion. Is anyone sure about the suspension type (Normal/PASM/Sport) and in the case of PASM what mode when the serious lack of initial steering response occurred?

Loan car is on boggo suspension (which I prefer to PASM). You may well be right that soft dampers, big wheels etc would exacerbate the issue.