718 GT4 vs 991 Carrera T - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi, I just sold my 718 GT4 because I didn't like the exhaust sound when driving around (even with the exhaust valves continuously open), I missed a sunroof and I disliked the long gearing. Now I am looking into a 991 Carrera T. Does this car sound 'better' than a 718 GT4 with OPF? What in comparison with a 997 Carrera GTS? I think performance-wise on the street they are all at the same level, but I just want some more audible enjoyment than I had with the 718 GT4. Cheers

I’ve had both. I think you need to go and drive one if you can. I think the GT4 has a much more mechanical and raspy sound in the car than the T. But the people I go out driving with say that the T is much louder when they where following it. They could even hear the turbo spoiling up (which you can from inside the car as well if the window is cracked open) which I think is pretty cool. But really you need to go and try one and see what you think. My 997.2 GTS with Sharkwerks bypass pipes was still by far the best sounding of those three.

I run a 991.1 c4s, with sunroof and sports exhaust... sounds great! Was thinking of looking at the gt4/spyders, but have been put off with with reviews ref long gearing and exhaust note etc, so will stay put for now I think

At least you can improve the sound of the T by fitting a decent exhaust but you can't change the 718 GT4's gearing so the 911T is the better bet out of those two based on your dislikes.

Great question. /thread bookmarked

Crazy4557 said: At least you can improve the sound of the T by fitting a decent exhaust but you can't change the 718 GT4's gearing so the 911T is the better bet out of those two based on your dislikes. Well you can, can’t you. If you really feel you need/want to.

The gearing in the T is a huge advantage- much more driveable on the road. From memory mine topped out in late 60s in 2nd gear.

Crazy4557 said: At least you can improve the sound of the T by fitting a decent exhaust but you can't change the 718 GT4's gearing so the 911T is the better bet out of those two based on your dislikes. RPM Technik do revised gear ratios so it is possible to get shorter gearing.

mr pg said: Crazy4557 said: At least you can improve the sound of the T by fitting a decent exhaust but you can't change the 718 GT4's gearing so the 911T is the better bet out of those two based on your dislikes. RPM Technik do revised gear ratios so it is possible to get shorter gearing. I think I remember watching a video on that. If I remember correctly, it doesn't make a huge difference to the gearing in terms of max mph in each gear, at least that was my impression.

interesting i am thinking of a 718 gt4 against my 997.1 gt3 cs. im arranging a back to back test with swindon opc with a view to a p/x potentially

OP, you'll likely be searhing in vain for a 991 T with a sunroof. I may have the only one that's been wongly specced that way.

I went from 997 GTS to 991T. I can’t believe that I have almost had the T for 5 years now, the longest I have kept a Porsche. It is a fabulous all rounder and, to me, one of those cars that adds up to more than the sum of its parts. I love it. It doesn’t sound anywhere near as good as a 997GTS though at higher revs. Thing is, with the T, you don’t generally go round bouncing it off the limiter, it’s quite torquey. As above, the turbo swoosh can be quite amusing too if you crack the window open a little.

rob.kellock said: I went from 997 GTS to 991T. I can’t believe that I have almost had the T for 5 years now, the longest I have kept a Porsche. It is a fabulous all rounder and, to me, one of those cars that adds up to more than the sum of its parts. I love it. It doesn’t sound anywhere near as good as a 997GTS though at higher revs. Thing is, with the T, you don’t generally go round bouncing it off the limiter, it’s quite torquey. As above, the turbo swoosh can be quite amusing too if you crack the window open a little. Nice that you've kept the faith, Rob. I'd assumed you'd moved on by now.

Dominique997GTS said: Hi, I just sold my 718 GT4 because I didn't like the exhaust sound when driving around (even with the exhaust valves continuously open), I missed a sunroof and I disliked the long gearing. Now I am looking into a 991 Carrera T. Does this car sound 'better' than a 718 GT4 with OPF? What in comparison with a 997 Carrera GTS? I think performance-wise on the street they are all at the same level, but I just want some more audible enjoyment than I had with the 718 GT4. Cheers I’ve had both a 718 GT4 and 991 Carrera T, and overall, I preferred the Carrera T. I found the chassis marginally better on the 718 GT4, and the PSM mapping allowed quite a bit more slip than the Carrera T; that would intervene and spoil the fun at relatively small slip angles…so if you want some fun with more slip angle, you’ve got to switch the PSM off. I was never a fan of the sound the 718 GT4 made, it just doesn’t feel that special, but I was quite amused by the noise the cylinder deactivation made on a very light throttle. Beyond the actual engine noise, the Carrera T makes a wide variety of subtle noises, some of which other posters have noted - turbo and wastegate noises for example… I may be alone here in not being a particular fan of the 997 GTS. As I understand it, it’s the same engine as went in the 991.1 GTS too, and I was never a fan of that engine either. To me, the 3.8 M96 engine in the 997.1 sounds better. Anyway, go with a 991.2 Carrera T, it’s a great car, and my favourite of all the cars I’ve mentioned above.

Owning both I'd say the standard T sounds better than the standard 4.

Maxym said: OP, you'll likely be searhing in vain for a 991 T with a sunroof. I may have the only one that's been wongly specced that way. I found one though ;-) but they are indeed very hard to find..

Thank you all for the interesting and useful comments! I like to keep my cars stock.. gearing, exhaust etc.. so they'd better be good from the factory! In my opinion, the 718 GT4 was not on both. I liked the exhaust note of my 997 GTS more, even not wringing it out, but just driving around town. After reading the comments, I guess there the T will do a great job too. Gearing of the 997 and the T will be about the same, the T will have more torque though. I went to see a yellow T today: sunroof, manual, full leather dash, PSE (obviously).. such a magnificent car, sounded great on start-up, the only thing for now is the color. I have always been a 'low-profile' guy on the color (as if you can be while driving a Porsche) so yellow will require some getting used to..

Is a sunroof or open top essential? I have a t and the sound is not going to compare to your 997. Even my kids say it is quiet compared to prev 981 with PSE. If you don’t have the need for rear seats the 981 2.7 box with PSe might be worth a shout.

7184c said: Is a sunroof or open top essential? I have a t and the sound is not going to compare to your 997. Even my kids say it is quiet compared to prev 981 with PSE. If you don’t have the need for rear seats the 981 2.7 box with PSe might be worth a shout. Yes a sunroof is definitely essential. Is the T really more quiet than a 997? Compared to a 997.1 ok, but to a 997.2? I found my 997.2 GTS with fully standard PSE not particularly loud.

Schuey_911 said: mr pg said: Crazy4557 said: At least you can improve the sound of the T by fitting a decent exhaust but you can't change the 718 GT4's gearing so the 911T is the better bet out of those two based on your dislikes. RPM Technik do revised gear ratios so it is possible to get shorter gearing. I think I remember watching a video on that. If I remember correctly, it doesn't make a huge difference to the gearing in terms of max mph in each gear, at least that was my impression. I recall Sharkwerks in the US being on the ball with GT4 gearing and offering an upgrade / revision, this is from their site... Sharkwerks said: The most common complaint among journalists and enthusiasts for the GT4 is that the gears are just too long for the 3.8L engine in this chassis. The ideal solution would be a complete re-gearing of 1st through 6th gears. However, that comes at an enormous cost for small batch parts and engineering 1st and 2nd gears will likely not be an option for years, if ever. We have tested re-gearing on our own project GT4 and have settled on a solution that changes 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears to shorter, closer ratios (approx difference is 14% in 3rd, 18% in 4th, and 16% in 5th). This allows shifting to 3rd gear sooner when needed, or staying in 2nd til the normal shift point and jumping to a better position in the powerband in 3rd, and staying in 3rd gear in more situations (ie mid-low speed corners) with improved acceleration. By shortening 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears, you have closer ratios and stay in the powerband longer through typical top speeds, and will be able to retain the original freeway overdrive gear, since 6th gear is unchanged.

Maxym said: Nice that you've kept the faith, Rob. I'd assumed you'd moved on by now. Thanks buddy. :-) I briefly toyed with the idea of a 992T when they were announced but the cost to change to a similar spec car was going to be £40k with no indication at all of a potential delivery date... can't say that struck me as a good deal!

I'm lucky to have had both, changed my 991.2 manual T for a manual GT4 last year, As many have shared the 991 definitely sounds better and the gearing is better too. However, as far as what is best, it depends. If used as a daily the 991 is a better car. I do feel the GT4 is more of an event as a weekend car, especially with carbon buckets etc. So, in summary, if you're in the mood, the GT4 is better. Clear?!?

I’ve added an Akrapovic exhaust to mine, which does help significantly. The volume is better and it’s cultured rather than all pops and bangs.

ChrisG C2S said: I'm lucky to have had both, changed my 991.2 manual T for a manual GT4 last year, As many have shared the 991 definitely sounds better and the gearing is better too. However, as far as what is best, it depends. If used as a daily the 991 is a better car. I do feel the GT4 is more of an event as a weekend car, especially with carbon buckets etc. So, in summary, if you're in the mood, the GT4 is better. Clear?!? Agree and the 718 GT4 overall is more of an event but the 991.2 T Carrera is a great but more diluted comfort touring focused driving package with high top gearing. I owned a 991.2 T manual comfort with T pack and rear seats from new in 2018 and do regret selling it in fact gave it back to my OPC in 2020 for my 718 GT4. Biggest downside with the T was the vague gearbox action primarily in the upper gears and this was more annoying than the highish ratios in the GT4 which are less of a problem in reality than in the 981 GT4 due to the max torque developing at different revs. The T feels almost old school Carrera reminiscent in both sound and many driving characteristics similar to the 997.2 Carrera S. Guess it really comes down to whether you want a turboed last of the narrow bodied Carreras 911 touring or n.a. much more driver focused Cayman GT with a relatively bespoke 8k rev limit engine and perfectly linear power delivery.

av185 said: Agree and the 718 GT4 overall is more of an event but the 991.2 T Carrera is a great but more diluted comfort touring focused driving package with high top gearing.. Not sure the T is more diluted. I find it a fun package, great country lane hack. The 4 is more "raw".

av185 said: The T feels almost old school Carrera reminiscent in both sound and many driving characteristics similar to the 997.2 Carrera S. This is actually exactly what I'm looking for! Though you might argue why not buy a 997.2 S/GTS then.. I think in the end a manual T might retain its value better than a manual 997.2 S because it is more rare.

If you want something that sounds great you really should be looking at 991.1 gen or 981 GT4 - pre turbo and filters. I had a manual 991 S, but moved to a 981 GT4 which for me is miles better in every sense (aside from fuel consumption). Just depends what you like from a car and its usage needs.

bosshog said: If you want something that sounds great you really should be looking at 991.1 gen or 981 GT4 - pre turbo and filters. I had a manual 991 S, but moved to a 981 GT4 which for me is miles better in every sense (aside from fuel consumption). Just depends what you like from a car and its usage needs. I agree that a 981 GT4 sounded better to my ears than a 718 GT4, but the 718s chassis I felt was much better.

av185 said: The T feels almost old school Carrera reminiscent in both sound and many driving characteristics similar to the 997.2 Carrera S. Yes indeed. The 991.2 T reminded me immediately of my old 997.2 C. IMO the T gives you the best of both worlds: the sort of 997 vibe with some more refinement, making it a better proposition for long, fast journeys on motorways and suchlike - road trip to Dresden coming up in April. I get on fine with the 7-speeder. Double de-clutching on a down-change from 7th gives me a half a second to find 5th or 6th as required.

IREvans said: I agree that a 981 GT4 sounded better to my ears than a 718 GT4, but the 718s chassis I felt was much better. Thread drift/ I can’t say I’ve driven one in anger enough to pick up on chassis changes though I understand they are pretty much the same setup?. What I couldn’t live with was the steering feel - for me it’s much more dull and lost the clarity of the 981 variant. I don’t get why they done this.

OP - I’m wondering why a 991.1 GTS isn’t on your list as it seems to fit your requirements.. similar performance as the T but sounds better with the standard powerkit and PSE Also more likely to find one in a low key colour with the sunroof.. and in manual form even rarer than the T which should help value retention I love mine and mostly drive with the sunroof cracked open just to hear the exhaust note!

Agree with that. Can't help but smile to see someone describe the T as a "last of". What, a turbo engine that no one lusts for? And a narrow body that (the consensus) would believe is worse looking? A 991.1 GTS would appear to tick every box. I'd also personally take a 991.2 GTS over the meek looking T.

I don’t have either but I think I’d rather have the T than a GTS - love the slimmer looks. Both engines have their merits.

46AF said: OP - I’m wondering why a 991.1 GTS isn’t on your list as it seems to fit your requirements.. similar performance as the T but sounds better with the standard powerkit and PSE Actually it is, more so than a T. However.. 1. Manual 991.1 GTS is very hard to find and 2. Prices are substantially higher than for the T.

I thought there isn't much in it price wise.. both around £80k ? I'd say it's worth searching out a manual 991.1 GTS if you prefer the N/A engine - it took me about a year to find the right car and they seem to come up for sale at the rate of around one every 2 months so you just have to be patient

thelostboy said: Agree with that. Can't help but smile to see someone describe the T as a "last of". What, a turbo engine that no one lusts for? And a narrow body that (the consensus) would believe is worse looking? A 991.1 GTS would appear to tick every box. I'd also personally take a 991.2 GTS over the meek looking T. Harsh and very subjective. 991.2 GTS is the same engine Have you driven a T? There's a reason why they're popular.

MannyLon said: Harsh and very subjective. 991.2 GTS is the same engine Have you driven a T? There's a reason why they're popular. I'd say the 991.1 GTS would be better as well, but they are very different NA vs Turbo. I've never understood the fascination with the T really if I'm honest (yes I have driven one), I don't think it has anything over a S/GTS other than a short physical gear stick, and due to the smaller turbo's (less power), they spin up quicker? The S/GTS generally speaking a much higher spec above the T. Perhaps if buying new it makes sense given the price difference, but I don't see how second hand and the high values they attract. Clearly I'm missing something

The other consideration when choosing between a Gen1 GTS and a (Gen2) T is gearshift quality. By all accounts, the manual transmission shifts improved considerably between the two generations.

You could be right, but I know it is a model year thing. The 7 speed manual wasn't the best when launched, but they improved it before the Gen 2 came out from what I recall. Driven a T, yes. It's nothing special. That's not a criticism; it's an entry level 911. The only appeal was you could spec it to have things a standard Carrera couldn't. Sure, if you get one with buckets, and all the chassis options ticked, then sure, it's great. But there's nothing innately superior about it. In fact, with the lack of sound insulation, it's if anything worse than a regular 911 as - like most 911s - the NVH is pretty annoying on long drives.

bosshog said: I'd say the 991.1 GTS would be better as well, but they are very different NA vs Turbo. I've never understood the fascination with the T really if I'm honest (yes I have driven one), I don't think it has anything over a S/GTS other than a short physical gear stick, and due to the smaller turbo's (less power), they spin up quicker? The S/GTS generally speaking a much higher spec above the T. Perhaps if buying new it makes sense given the price difference, but I don't see how second hand and the high values they attract. Clearly I'm missing something I’ve had both a 991.1 C2 GTS (PDK) and a Carrera T. I much preferred the T, which means BHP isn’t everything. Gear change quality always felt better in the T than a GTS manual which I drove. This could of course be purely subjective…

thelostboy said: You could be right, but I know it is a model year thing. The 7 speed manual wasn't the best when launched, but they improved it before the Gen 2 came out from what I recall. Driven a T, yes. It's nothing special. That's not a criticism; it's an entry level 911. The only appeal was you could spec it to have things a standard Carrera couldn't. Sure, if you get one with buckets, and all the chassis options ticked, then sure, it's great. But there's nothing innately superior about it. In fact, with the lack of sound insulation, it's if anything worse than a regular 911 as - like most 911s - the NVH is pretty annoying on long drives. Think you missed the point of the car.