996 vs M3 - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I wouldn't have thought the maintenance costs would be much different. The 996 is cheaper to service than many realise, ie once a year or every 12k miles, whichever is sooner. I know on the turbo the 12k is £250 and the 24k is £450. I can't see the cost of consumables ie tyres,pads and discs being any different between the two cars. In theory a 4 year old 996 should loose less in depreciation over 2 years than a 1 year old M3 cab. Good luck with your decision. Obviously it go's without saying get a test drive of both types of vehicle before even thinking about making a decision. DAZ PS - welcome to Pistonheads.

mate, this really is a no- brainer. the M3 is not a patch on a 996.. Ive had both What i would really recommend though, is going for a 40 k 996 coupe rather than a cab.(the cab 996 isnt pretty.) The 996 at 40k really has bottomed out whereas all BMs depreciate more linearly. Besides.... the 996 is a special car... the BMW, well I never got a buzz from driving it. BTW ive done plenty of track days.. and again, the 996 is the better track car.

Pete, when you say pretty, do you mean to look at or to drive? I am not overtly keen on the cab myself as I hate anything that squeeks and creeks but I think it looks good with the roof down or winter hard top on. That aside, the only way I can get a 996 with the missus's blessing is, if it came with a "roofless option"

According to www.track-challenge.com Track/996/M3 E46 ring/8.17/8.22 hockenheim/17.1/17.6 They do not specify what suspension was on that 996. The Sport suspension would be a bit faster than the stock stuff. At Road Atlanta, they are very close and basically come down to the driver. Both are pretty quick cars. Good luck. Roy ps. You should check this out before you get an M3: http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm

Isn't there a Targa 996? Would this be roofless enough?

Hi AJL There is a 996 targa, but it's only been in production for the last 2 years or so. Accordingly there probably won't be any in the £40k bracket. DAZ

Ah I see Wasn't there an article by Clarkson in the Sunday Times a few months ago about the M3 cabrio - not too complimentary I seem to remember. (not sure if Clarksons the right bloke to take car advice from though )

From what I remember Clarksons main gripe was with a non-manual gearbox on the M3 (This isn't so much of a problem as he appears to have a go at just about every companies F1 style/SMG/Tiptronic type gearboxes). I know someone who has moved from the previous version M3 cab to the new version and he's delighted with the car (manual gearboxes in both instances). DAZ

the first cars came out in Germany in Jan. 2002 - I've got one of them. Rgds, WalterU

IIRC one of the major gripes about the new M3 cab was the CONSIDERABLE loss of stiffness compared to the M3 coupé. This is something you won't have with a 996 cab. Rgds, WalterU

It should be. Don't think that just because you are buying a new or new-ish car from a quality manufacturer that they will be flawless. A friend of mine with a manual E46 M3 has had a gearbox replaced, and there seems to be a con rod issue according to that North American recall. Early 996s also suffered from a few minor problems, most of which will have been sorted under warranty now. But they happened. And 996 Targas still have a roof rattle, it seems. Basically, always question the reliability - and insist on a warrantied car if at all unsure. Personally, I think a 2002> 996 is the better built car and will be cheaper to run. The E46 M3 engine is more highly tuned. Best value is the E46 M3, and IMHO better looking in cabrio form. All the best Domster

I'd also advise you to make sure that you test drive an M3 cabrio of a year old as opposed to a new one from a showroom. After a year mine was rattling like a gooden. I loved the engine and the comparitive comfort compared to my new chariot but i'd definitely go for the coupe next time around............... No real experience of 996's - apart from driving past them on trackdays

No real experience of 996's - apart from driving past them on trackdays Strange my experience is the other way around. 996 targa Roof rattle has been solved. no problemo >> Edited by superlightr on Monday 13th January 14:38

I would go for a 996 everytime.I think its a far better car for the money.Just got that something extra special. Steve

Beware E46 M3 engines... an awful lot of them have gone bang. Check out the page below and you'll see what i mean: http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm Just be warned. www.VerySideways.com

I know this is going to sound a little (oxy)moronic, but buy the car you want . Myself, I don't believe a sports car purchase is a head thing so long as basic essentials like reliability & running costs pass muster. Besides, you posted this on a Porsche board, and unless you mirrored it on BMW, you must have known what to expect

In summary, if you buy an M3, you will still want a 996. If you buy a 996, you'll never want an M3...

All together now. 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996, 996

Pardon Rich......did you say 996 996 996!!!!!

Thanks everyone. I think the final post sums it all up. Hey 456, I knew there would be a biased response posting this issue on a Porsche Forum, so I did the same on the BM Forum (BM3W.co.uk) as you had presumed. The response are as biased as I expected but the comments of many (particularly those who have owned/own both cars) are interesting. Not many have moved fron the 996 to the M3, so most comments were based on their experience of the 993/964. I would expect these cars are not as "easy to drive" as the 996. I bragg not about my driving (or lack of driving) skills Funny think is, members of the BM Forum make no reference to the engine problem which has plague some (tiny minority in the Uk) E46 M3. Anyway, still going to view a M3 Cab this weekend before I discard the option completely.

Good idea. It will be your car and your money. At least if you have seen it & driven it, you'll more than likely never be left wondering if it was the correct decision.

I have driven both on track and the road and if it is fun that you want go down the BMW route. The handling is better and the engine more alive (although performance is almost identical) bit if it is just looks/depreciation etc that concerns you get the Porker

I test drove the M3 convertable, (Very shaky & back seats not big enough) drove the M3 coupe cabin too tight for me, ie foot rest and arm rest not in right position or comfortable. Bought an M5, big enough and comfortable but had lots of breakdowns and safety issues. (See BMW forum M5 Finally.) Now got a 996 targa and love the looks, exclusivity (but paid for it and the total driving experience. Oh yes its also has not broken down and bits havnt fallen off so far. (fingers crossed) Tne 996 is expensive, probably is not much faster than M3, but every day I look at the 996 when i get up in the morning I go WOW, every time I get into it is WOW. Every journer is a Wow. My friends all go WoW. Boys in the area I live have literaly bowed down at the side of the road and in 'oh not worthy style' (no joke) and have positve comments so far in my ownership. M5 ? whats special about that was the main comment, and then i would spend 10 mins trying to explain that it really was a fast car (when it worked) that although it looked liked every other box car on the road it was special. 996 is a cheaper insurance than the M5 for me (dont know about M3) better fuel econ (although not bothered about that too much) Basically I would say if you can afford the extra for a 996 do it, you wont regred the driving experience. If you cant then the M3 is one of the few alternatives. Although I would now go for an Evo 8 instead of an M3 Let us know what you think and decide. Safe driving. >> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 09:11 >> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:35

Hi Dele, Nice position to be in!! From my limited experience (never been in an M3 Cab) I would take the 996. They just seem a that bit more special to me, and depreciation will be incomparable. A 1994 M3 Cab is worth maybe £13k now where as a 94 Porka could be double that. I love E46 M3s but would take a slightly olser 996 anyday. Let me know what you decide on.

Hi, mate!! I can only echo that. I bought a 911 Targa with my head. It seemed so much more sensible than the next luxo barge or another Audi A8. They're all getting heavier and heavier, thirstier and thirstier. I was, however, terrified of negative reactions from my customers, from strangers, damage, keying etc. etc. The reaction has been amazing. Not ONCE have I had a negative reaction. On the contrary, experiences exactly the same as you, customers smiling/laughing, people on the road-side exhorting me to blip the loud pedal ... It is a WOW to look at it, a WOW to get in, a WOW to drive. Rgds, WalterU >> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 12:39

WalterU - I think we must have been separated at birth or there was cloning around earlier than we knew !! ps thanks for the support on one of the other posts about unfair dismissal/pregnancy. Gave you are respect thingy from me !! >> Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 15th January 13:39

Blush - thanks for the compliments Your respect rating should have gone up too. Are you really in Peru? eMail me off site. Rgds, WalterU >> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 14:51 >> Edited by WalterU on Wednesday 15th January 14:52

I've got an M3 Cab and a Boxster S, I've test driven the latest 996 carrera 2 cab and the last model a 996 cab a couple of times back in jan 01 (bought a boxster S instead). You can’t really go wrong no matter what you pick. The M3 is pretty stiff ride on the 19 inch tyres and although it suffers slightly from some body flex on really bad roads, so does the last Carrera I tested which was on the 18inch wheels and also had body flex to lesser extent. Having said that they both are amazingly composed on theroad with amazing grip. Like the Boxster S i found the 996 to have more feel through the steering than the M3, the M3 is good, but not in the same league as the Porsches. Chassis feed back in the 996, seemed less than I got in the boxster, although still very informative, the M3 is also pretty good. The 996 had a firm supple ride better than the boxser S and better than the M3 which is very stiff and not as supple. The 996 and the Boxster have slightly better throttles (even than the M3 in sport mode), this allows you to balance the car in the corner better, particularly the boxster in which it is amazingly easy to change the attitude of the car mid corner with just a slight flex of the throttle. The M3 is surprisingly quite on the Motorway, the engine is lovely and smooth and quiet when off throttle, I can't remember cruising in the old 996 just pushing it. You can get 4 adults in the M3 with a bit of comfort for an hour or two, it does have four full seats, but the rears do get tiring after a while. The 996 gives a lovely induction roar as the revs build up and the engine makes a nice noise at full song, the car didn't feel as fast as it is. The M3 howls away and sounds far more manic. The m3 is easier to take up to its limits, than the Boxster S the Boxster is more rewarding, but just a shade more difficult (the boxster does have higher limits), I found this as well with the last 996 I tested in the summer , like the Boxster the car comes really alive approaching the limits giving a lot of info, which can be a bit unsettling . The M3 lets through less info, still enough to let you know whats roughly happening but the car feels more planted till it starts to go. Road and track got the M3 cab (18inch)(333bhp us version) to grip to 0.86g on a 300ft skidpan, Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec Zero to 100 mph: 12.5 sec Zero to 130 mph: 22.8 sec Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec Standing 1/4-mile: 13.7 sec @ 104 mph Top speed (governor limited): 157 mph Car and Driver testing a 996 cab in 1998 got same grip and the ACCELERATION Seconds Zero to 30 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.7 40 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.7 60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.9 70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.5 80 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.2 90 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10.1 100 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .12.5 110 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .15.2 120 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18.4 130 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .23.2 140 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28.8 150 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .38.9 Street start, 5-60 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.7 Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.5 50-70 mph. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.1 Standing 1/4-mile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13.5 sec @ 104 mph Top speed (drag limited). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165 mph BRAKING 70-0 mph @ impending lockup. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 170 ft Fade. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . none LIGHT moderate heavy HANDLING Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad. . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.86 g Understeer. . . . . . . . . . . . . .minimal MODERATE excessive FUEL ECONOMY EPA city driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .17 mpg EPA highway driving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 mpg C/D-observed fuel economy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 mpg Performance is very close. Interestingly they have had Boxsters S pulling 0.92g on the skidpan tests. If you love your driving as a rewarding experience and wish to put a bit of effort in at times I would go for an older 996, better resale, amazing steering, feel etc. (I would get one with traction control) However if you need rear seats the M3 is really really a good car and its thrills are readily accessible. The M3 is also amazingly easy to drive really quickly in the wet. (It also has a glass rear screen) Incidentally the Boxster S, although slower, is amazingly close to the 996 cabs in a lot of respects, and even arguably better in some, it does offer great value for money with good residuals. Of my cars the Boxster S is the better pure drive, you start with a smile that spreads to a really wide grin the further you exploit its greater depths, but the M3 makes you give a good grin straight away. As a new purchase no other car offers the same blend of performance, handling and practicality for the money. On track days I find I can go quicker, sooner in the M3, not just because of the extra power it has but it just seems easier to get used to the track in it. >> Edited by jumjum on Wednesday 15th January 15:52

When a 10 or 15 year old 911 drives by you look and think wow.. When a 10 or 15 year old M3 drives by you dont notice or you lock your doors.!! As I said before, Ive had both cars, (still have 996) and the Porsche is a legend. The M3 ( or in any BMW) is not. Hit the nail on the head mate! Steve >> Edited by sb930turbo (moderator) on Friday 17th January 20:53

you depress me. I live in England, but do almost all my motoring on the continent. When I'm here I don't get about much, so I haven't had much experience. But I have had workmen and boys smiling and clapping. Rgds, WalterU

Thanks for all those who commented and those who had the patience to endure my questions on the phone. Picked her up last night. (private purchase but specialist inspection) Spec: 99/T Carrera 2 convertible (LHD)in silver with silver leather. Manual,Traction/C, h/seats, Sat Nav/music upgrade/phone(i.e PCM), 18" turbo alloys, h/top and the silver bits around the gear stick/dash. Absolutely spotless...but then, everyone says that. One question, does the wind deflector come as standard on convertible? If so, mine is missing!

I am thinking of trading my M3 (e36) conv in for a 996 conv or M3(E46) conv but cant decide. My head says 996 but heart says M3. With only £40k to spend, I am looking at the early 996, which means the previous owner(s) would have seen off the bulk of the depreciation but then, rumours have it than Porsche is planning a facelift in 2004....so more loses. I have shopped around and found a few of both cars in my budget range and being conv, I will guess now is the best time to buy. On the other hand, the oldest M3s are only a year old, which means price will tumble under my ownership....not good. On the other hand, I will guess than the maintenance cost on the M3 will be slightly less than the porsche. The maintenance/running cost is a huge factor for me. Also, the M3 seems to have more 'presence' than the 996 (personal view, off course) Reliability is not in question with either model. Either model will only be in my possession for 2 years at the most, so I need something that financially makes sense.....but also does/look the biz I need some views please, particularly from those who have owned both