Cayman GTS 981 - don't really like it. - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I'd always wanted a Porsche so when the time was right I read every article and decided a Cayman 981 GTS was for me - went for a test drive thought yes this is it ... So I've now had a PDK, 981, with 13k of options for a year and not really that fussed about driving it. Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S, The 981 makes a great noise but you have to push the revs to get there. So thinking of making a change maybe the new 911T manual as I quite like the turbo feel (aware of all the haters but you can't tell me what I like and don't like). Would that work other options ? Also what's my Silver 981 worth 2014, 22k miles PDK with carbon/cruise/heated seat/dab/xenon/climate/ alcantara in gts pack silver etc. just had major service one original owner plus me supplied and serviced by same OPC - immaculate. alltalk.

alltalk said: I'd always wanted a Porsche so when the time was right I read every article and decided a Cayman 981 GTS was for me - went for a test drive thought yes this is it ... So I've now had a PDK, 981, with 13k of options for a year and not really that fussed about driving it. Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S, The 981 makes a great noise but you have to push the revs to get there. So thinking of making a change maybe the new 911T manual as I quite like the turbo feel (aware of all the haters but you can't tell me what I like and don't like). Would that work other options ? Also what's my Silver 981 worth 2014, 22k miles PDK with carbon/cruise/heated seat/dab/xenon/climate/ alcantara in gts pack silver etc. just had major service one original owner plus me supplied and serviced by same OPC - immaculate. alltalk. What is it you dont like about the GTS that makes you think the 911T will be a better bet? What is it you are looking for from the car? Daily use or weekend blasts?

alltalk said: you can't tell me what I like and don't like. I would buy what you like then and delete the thread.

Porsche911R said: I would buy what you like then and delete the thread. lol +1

Porsche911R said: I would buy what you like then and delete the thread. Yep, gotta agree with that.

Oh you cheeky little contrarian scamp.

alltalk said: I'd always wanted a Porsche so when the time was right I read every article and decided a Cayman 981 GTS was for me - went for a test drive thought yes this is it ... So I've now had a PDK, 981, with 13k of options for a year and not really that fussed about driving it. Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S, The 981 makes a great noise but you have to push the revs to get there. So thinking of making a change maybe the new 911T manual as I quite like the turbo feel (aware of all the haters but you can't tell me what I like and don't like). Would that work other options ? Also what's my Silver 981 worth 2014, 22k miles PDK with carbon/cruise/heated seat/dab/xenon/climate/ alcantara in gts pack silver etc. just had major service one original owner plus me supplied and serviced by same OPC - immaculate. alltalk. I have a 981s and more recently added a 1998 996 c2 - in layman's terms an early water cooled 911. I really like it but it is 20 years old. I've changed the 18 wheels and tyres to 17 inch and it still has way more grip than my brain. The feedback even at pottering speeds is hard to explain if you have never experienced one of these. Let me say this - drive one.

You would have felt different if the 981 was manual. PDK destroys the enjoyment of a sweet car.

TDT said: Porsche911R said: I would buy what you like then and delete the thread. lol +1 +2

Leonard Stanley said: Oh you cheeky little contrarian scamp. Precisely my thoughts (though your version is far more polite ...)

if you don't like to rev then yep a turbo 911 sounds like a good shout

Might be better to start again. If you are hoping to sell it then it's better policy to 'talk the car up' and how it breaks your heart to sell, but what's it worth...….? Lot of people love the 981s and a hi-spec GTS, PDK or Manual, with all the important boxes ticked, should be quite sought after at the right price. Porsche Warranty would help if you want to sell privately.

How about a Mini Cooper S? I drive my son's 2015 version occasionally. Quite like it compared to some of the current BMW rear drive models I've tried. Still... wouldn't swap my 981 base PDK though. Nor would I want a 911.

School holidays?

Ha ha, whilst it’s good to finally see someone challenging the “consensus” apparently on here that the 981 GTS is the best car ever, this is clearly a wind up, so 2/10 lol.

Surprised nobody has suggested the Torque of the 718 s/GTS.

jbaddeley said: Surprised nobody has suggested the Torque of the 718 s/GTS. Oh No! Don't mention the 981/718 argument, the thread will run for 350 pages like the last one.

alltalk said: Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S Get another Cooper then? Maybe a Clubman Cooper D Manual if you're feeling adventurous.

Schmed said: Ha ha, whilst it’s good to finally see someone challenging the “consensus” apparently on here that the 981 GTS is the best car ever, this is clearly a wind up, so 2/10 lol. Nah, it's not the best ever. It's just very good, so to say it isn't is really going against the grain. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's the way it's been done which is odd!

What a lovely wide set of responses. Almost taking them in turn .. bought what I liked last time found out I didn't ... so don't want to do that again hence the question. 911Turbo could be good shout. Don't like ... love the sound but by the time it gets interesting you are going waaaay too quick. i can drive my wife's cooper 's' anytime this was more a reflection of what I liked than a desire to buy another. Not too worried about talking the car down as there are enough people who love them .... just maybe not me. Any suggestions, going 993 may be an option ? or other extreme McLaren 540c. absolutely not a wind up. Edited by alltalk on Thursday 26th July 17:36

Try a mini GP2. They are very impressive, rare and have strong residuals.

Trevor555 said: jbaddeley said: Surprised nobody has suggested the Torque of the 718 s/GTS. Oh No! Don't mention the 981/718 argument, the thread will run for 350 pages like the last one. The 718 owners will be all over this ha ha!

Hmmm. Maybe you need to take more care with test driving - get a car for a few days and make sure you are happy. When I had a CGTS I never wanted to drive our Mini, as I found it dull. It's been an expensive mistake - I think you'll need £35 - 40k depending on spec to get into a 911T. If you like torque low down look at V8 engined cars.

You must like the 981 to have bought one in the first place. Why don’t you try the 2.7 engine? It’s pretty sweet.

Custard?

It might be a wind up, but he's right about the gearing!

homerdog said: It might be a wind up, but he's right about the gearing! What about the gearing?

ATM said: What about the gearing? It's a bit too long.

well yes, a 993 or similar air-cooled will give the buzz of driving by the seat of your pants....at 65mph

ATM said: 1998 996 c2 - in layman's terms an early water cooled 911. This?

Dont really say why he doesnt like it apart from having to rev it. Its as good as a daily or moving along at a brisk pace. Seems a strange one each to their own .

tedblog said: Dont really say why he doesnt like it apart from having to rev it. Its as good as a daily or moving along at a brisk pace. Seems a strange one each to their own . I can understand it. There isn't much involvement. It depends on what you're used to. My 981 is less fun that my 996 when you're pressing on a bit. If you're going bat sheet crazy then the 981 is quick but it is the speed which is exciting not necessarily the car - if that makes sense. I can enjoy the 996 at 5 tenths but in the 981 you need to be at 8 or 9 tenths. Hang on - has no one suggested a 987 Cayman R?

Can understand where the OP is coming from never liked the 981 Gts maybe he should have gone Gt4/spyder but each to their own just drive a few cars to see what suits plenty of 991.2T to test drive but at that price level better off with Gt4/spyder or a 991.1gts if you like pdk

ATM said: I can enjoy the 996 at 5 tenths but in the 981 you need to be at 8 or 9 tenths. Spot on. That's my problem with the 981. I want a car that sucks you in at 5 tenths. A Caterham or Elise does (for me) but a 981 doesn't An Evora (400) gets closer, hoping an Alpine A110 will do the business - I'll soon know.

ATM said: I can enjoy the 996 at 5 tenths but in the 981 you need to be at 8 or 9 tenths. I find I enjoy the engine at all times but the handling and feel doesn't come alive until you really press on. That's mostly just modern cars and development though isn't it? An older car will always feel more raw.

ATM said: Hang on - has no one suggested a 987 Cayman R? because I think he wants a turbo car, he would be better off in a Golf CS imo.

Porsche911R said: because I think he wants a turbo car, he would be better off in a Golf CS imo. If He wants turbo he could go poverty spec basic 718 too.

ATM said: If He wants turbo he could go poverty spec basic 718 too. Don't mention the war!

nimmo12 said: You would have felt different if the 981 was manual. PDK destroys the enjoyment of a sweet car. IMHO this is complete nonsense, so I presume your view is subjective (as it clearly must be).

Johnniem said: nimmo12 said: You would have felt different if the 981 was manual. PDK destroys the enjoyment of a sweet car. IMHO this is complete nonsense, so I presume your view is subjective (as it clearly must be). Does the 981 do rev matching on manual like the fancy modern GT3?

ATM said: Does the 981 do rev matching on manual like the fancy modern GT3? In Sport+ mode, yes.

Twinfan said: ATM said: I can enjoy the 996 at 5 tenths but in the 981 you need to be at 8 or 9 tenths. I find I enjoy the engine at all times but the handling and feel doesn't come alive until you really press on. That's mostly just modern cars and development though isn't it? An older car will always feel more raw. +1 And I think it's a case of horses for courses. No one car can do it all.

zainster said: No one car can do it all. Cayman R does :-)

Porsche911R said: Cayman R does :-) Maybe, but it's a shame it's ugly. The 987 series isn't much of a looker to my eyes.

Porsche911R said: zainster said: No one car can do it all. Cayman R does :-) Lol .. Ah you're talking about that limited run model that can take more than 2 people, switchable 4wd option, limo like ride, comfort & refinement, all the latest tech options, V8 burble but still under a ton in weight to go have fun on track? I'm sure I've l missed some other requirements ;-)

Twinfan said: Porsche911R said: Cayman R does :-) Maybe, but it's a shame it's ugly. The 987 series isn't much of a looker to my eyes. Good point! Needs to look good and be practical :-p

Twinfan said: ATM said: Does the 981 do rev matching on manual like the fancy modern GT3? In Sport+ mode, yes. I have a 987.2 with chrono + and sports steering wheel. I believe the rev matching mode work when it is manual mode, not just when it is in Sports + mode. It is what the (double clutched) PDK gearbox is all about, no? Unless I am misunderstanding the question?

Just a great car the 981 CGTS, as I used to own one fully loaded. What I liked; -Engine, just so rev happy, just WOT it and get instant reward on how it revs and how it sounds, second to none -PDK, so crispy, fast and intuitive, marvelous -PCCB`s, loved the way it did break, the looks, the lack of brake dust, just awesome -Overall looks on exterior and interior, magnificent What I disliked a little; -Seating on the sport seats +, couldn't find any comfortable seating position -Thin steering wheel What I disliked the most; - The way it steered, slow initial steering input, to much artificial resistance while fast cornering, too much self-centering force, a lack of overall steering feel How much I did love the car, the steering was the greatest let down for me and I sold the car.

Romo said: , the steering was the greatest let down for me and I sold the car. This, killed the car for me to never own or want any of the non GT 981 and 991.1 range sadly some times tech is good but some times early tech is bad new and needs refining :-( gen 1 EPS was that, very poor tech which ruined the cars.

zainster said: Lol .. Ah you're talking about that limited run model that can take more than 2 people, switchable 4wd option, limo like ride, comfort & refinement, all the latest tech options, V8 burble but still under a ton in weight to go have fun on track? I'm sure I've l missed some other requirements ;-) no Porsche has any of those, if that's what you want in car then good luck lol

Johnniem said: I have a 987.2 with chrono + and sports steering wheel. I believe the rev matching mode work when it is manual mode, not just when it is in Sports + mode. It is what the (double clutched) PDK gearbox is all about, no? Unless I am misunderstanding the question? Sorry, I'm talking specifically about a car with a manual gearbox

Porsche911R said: zainster said: Lol .. Ah you're talking about that limited run model that can take more than 2 people, switchable 4wd option, limo like ride, comfort & refinement, all the latest tech options, V8 burble but still under a ton in weight to go have fun on track? I'm sure I've l missed some other requirements ;-) no Porsche has any of those, if that's what you want in car then good luck lol I think you missed the point! :-)

zainster said: I think you missed the point! :-) No I think the Cayman R covers most bases Great daily car good MPG 2 boots cheap TAX nice ride possible to Track driver involvement cup holders Good Hi fi if you spec BOSE. Holds value looks cool Loads of fun real steering feel it really is the one car which does it all unless you have kids.

Porsche911R said: No I think the Cayman R covers most bases Great daily car good MPG 2 boots cheap TAX nice ride possible to Track driver involvement cup holders Good Hi fi if you spec BOSE. Holds value looks cool Loads of fun real steering feel it really is the one car which does it all unless you have kids. If you think Bose is good, I really can't take your opinions of anything else seriously.

bcr5784 said: If you think Bose is good, I really can't take your opinions of anything else seriously. it far far better than sound pack plus, sounds great in the R People who say BOSE sounds s t have the base turned up to full, and the loudness option ticked !!! than moan it's booming. Nothing wrong with BOSE (and yes I do hate the brand and think over all it's s t) SPP is so s t I speced BOSE in the GT3 and it's fine. If you need help setting it up pm me ;_)

Porsche911R said: zainster said: I think you missed the point! :-) No I think the Cayman R covers most bases Great daily car good MPG 2 boots cheap TAX nice ride possible to Track driver involvement cup holders Good Hi fi if you spec BOSE. Holds value looks cool Loads of fun real steering feel it really is the one car which does it all unless you have kids. I think it definitely covers many bases for you and your circumstances and that's good because luckily you've got one! :-D However, pretty much all of what you list is subjective and understandably biased. We all have different tastes/ requirements/ tolerances though. :-)

Porsche911R said: it far far better than sound pack plus, sounds great in the R People who say BOSE sounds s t have the base turned up to full, and the loudness option ticked !!! than moan it's booming. Nothing wrong with BOSE (and yes I do hate the brand and think over all it's s t) SPP is so s t I speced BOSE in the GT3 and it's fine. If you need help setting it up pm me ;_) (Yes as standard it is boomy and awful) I have mine on linear - it is STILL utter crap. I don't need help setting it up, it has absolutely nothing to recommend over a 2.1 system on my PC which cost a tiny fraction of the price. (I do have a pretty high end home system too but I'm not comparing it with that).

Twinfan said: Porsche911R said: Cayman R does :-) Maybe, but it's a shame it's ugly. The 987 series isn't much of a looker to my eyes. +1

The steering was a let down on the GTS v’s my 987...I didn’t buy one because of it. The sun does not shine out of the GTS’s arse...please take it down from the pedestal some of you have put it on.

I did like the 6sp CGTS, but the high rev behaviour on/off throttle behaviour ruined it for me! Lovely car to potter about in, or stroke along at a decent lick, up and down the box. But for me, not very nice to drive fast at all The slight throttle bump as you feather out of the gas, combined with the anti weight transfer fueling, made it a frustration to pedal faster on road. (Controlled weight transfer to stop lift off oversteer) Porsche insisted it was correct and let me try another. It was the same Double apex and limited vision exit type corners were not nice. (The GT4 has none of this silly mapping) So...... I’m one of the few that actually likes the throttle behaviour of the 718GTS, as (in sport mode), they have allowed normal engine braking. I miss the sound of the 981, but otherwise the 718 is more my cup of tea Edited by Red 5 on Friday 27th July 21:50

JayK12 said: With the GTS, it only comes alive for me when I am absolutely on it. Its definitely one of those cars...which is why it such a great daily/one car to do it all. Can be normal, and then at the push of a button or bit more will with the throttle... it can be aggressive.

Porsche911R said: PASM feels a bit hard when turned on in these cars. x73 fits inbetween the 2 PASM modes quite nice and is of course lower which looks cooler :-). X73 springs and front anti roll bar are about 10% stiffer than PASM. X73 rear ARB is much stiffer than PASMs. PASM in sport dampers vary from similar to the "basic" (doubtless softer than X73) suspension to much stiffer. So, the low speed ride in PASM sport is bound to be quite a bit softer than X73 because PASM will have both softer springs and dampers. At higher speeds/more aggressive driving the stiffer (adaptive) damping of PASM may even things up. We may debate the aesthetics of a drop in ride height of 10mm and whether it looks cooler or more chavvy. Frankly I doubt anyone but a star bellied sneecher would notice.

JayK12 said: Is that 981 on X73? Looks high? No Bog standard passive dampers

Porsche911R said: PASM feels a bit hard when turned on in these cars. x73 fits inbetween the 2 PASM modes quite nice and is of course lower which looks cooler :-). Happy with PASM in our BGTS as SWMBO cannot stand a ride that is too firm, especially on UK’s broken roads. I don’t think the car appears to ride too high - PASM is 10mm lower than standard suspension anyway. By the way Porsche911R - PASM is always on, just a choice between comfort or sport program. Edited by dreamcar on Tuesday 31st July 17:18

Obafemi99 said: I know a lot of people love them and all those car journos must know what they're talking about, but sadly for me the car never got under my skin and i didn't form an emotional attachment to it, so i sold it - i did make £4k on it as managed to get a decent deal when i bought it (hence buying without driving it as did the deal very quickly). They do still make me look twice on the odd occasions i see them on the road and always wonder if i should give one another try, but my 2 pence worth is i have to agree with the title of this thread. I have the same thoughts about the GT4. I thought it would be a like the GT3RS models I'd previously driven, but I quickly realised the engine was a massive let down - I prefer the 3.4 in the GTS as it feels revvier to me. We should follow that advice to never meet your idols!

dreamcar said: Happy with PASM in our BGTS as SWMBO cannot stand a ride that is too firm, especially on UK’s broken roads. I don’t think the car appears to ride too high - PASM is 10mm lower than standard suspension anyway. By the way Porsche911R - PASM is always on, just a choice between comfort or sport program. Always on but uses different % of the shock damping. Hence the DSC works for a few people as it uses 100% of the shock all the time. off say 20 to 60% on say 50 to 90% don't quote me I made that up but it's works like that. On don't really work imo.

ATM said: Passive dampers here lads on the 981. Super low KW v3 on the 996. I guess you're happy that a woman coming along there pushing a pram, perhaps with another toddler in tow has to walk on the street. Or a wheelchair user...... Moronic parking.

Porsche911R said: On don't really work imo. Doesn't work for you maybe, but it seems just fine for other people

CastroSays said: I guess you're happy that a woman coming along there pushing a pram, perhaps with another toddler in tow has to walk on the street. Or a wheelchair user...... Moronic parking. Wtf!? This is a car forum

X73 rollbars are £360 from OPC apparently.

CastroSays said: ATM said: Passive dampers here lads on the 981. Super low KW v3 on the 996. I guess you're happy that a woman coming along there pushing a pram, perhaps with another toddler in tow has to walk on the street. Or a wheelchair user...... Moronic parking. That's stereotyping and sexist in one post, what about men with kids that need to push chair and toddler, father for justice would be disappointed in you!! Edited by JayK12 on Tuesday 31st July 19:00

And a handy DIY video... https://youtu.be/uM3Zs0zvJSk You're welcome.

Porsche911R said: Always on but uses different % of the shock damping. Hence the DSC works for a few people as it uses 100% of the shock all the time. off say 20 to 60% on say 50 to 90% don't quote me I made that up but it's works like that. On don't really work imo. Could you explain that in English? PASM, depending on mode AND speed/G sensing PASM uses damping from settings that are MUCH softer than either X73 or standard to settings that are much harder than standard and (probably) harder than X73.

bcr5784 said: Porsche911R said: Always on but uses different % of the shock damping. Hence the DSC works for a few people as it uses 100% of the shock all the time. off say 20 to 60% on say 50 to 90% don't quote me I made that up but it's works like that. On don't really work imo. Could you explain that in English? PASM, depending on mode AND speed/G sensing PASM uses damping from settings that are MUCH softer than either X73 or standard to settings that are much harder than standard and (probably) harder than X73. You're both saying a similar thing... basically - PASM operates in ranges. Normal mode it operates in the softer range, in Sport and @ extremis in Sport Plus, PASM will operate in the firmer-stiff range of damping. Total operating range of the PASM system spans from about Standard (Basic Passive) all the way to as hard as or harder than X73. But there will be a little bit of compromise in that as the spring rates need to be able to work across that range also - and series 981 obviously don't have adjustable spring rates on the car or helper springs. DSC unit that replace the factory PASM control unit is much faster and uses different algorithms to using the dampers in active fashion across all dampers at the same time to maintain a stable platform, kind of like PDCC now does but without the active roll bars to help as well. It also changes the damping values of the various operating ranges/driving modes...obviously limited to the maximum capacity of the damper itself - which is why some people worry about additional wear when using the DSC. Edited by TDT on Tuesday 31st July 20:07

TDT said: You're both saying a similar thing... basically - PASM operates in ranges. Normal mode it operates in the softer range, in Sport and @ extremis in Sport Plus, PASM will operate in the firmer-stiff range of damping. Total operating range of the PASM system spans from about Standard (Basic Passive) all the way to as hard as or harder than X73. But there will be a little bit of compromise in that as the spring rates need to be able to work across that range also - and series 981 obviously don't have adjustable spring rates on the car or helper springs. Edited by TDT on Tuesday 31st July 20:07 Agreed there are ranges - but their seems to be confusion on both Dave and your part about the span of these ranges. PASM is about 10% stiffer front and rear in terms of SPRING and ARB rates (I can ferrit out the actual rates if you really want to know) . In terms of damper settings the range on PASM is FAR wider than you imply. In Normal it ranges from MUCH softer than standard to a bit stiffer than standard. In Sport damper ranges from similar to standard to MUCH stiffer.

I think the difference the DSC module makes is of most use on the 9x7 platform where PASM was less well developed. No-one seems to be using it on a 9x1 - the standard factory software seems to have been developed nicely, probably more in line with the 9x7 DSC coding (at a guess).

bcr5784 said: Agreed there are ranges - but their seems to be confusion on both Dave and your part about the span of these ranges. PASM is about 10% stiffer front and rear in terms of SPRING and ARB rates (I can ferrit out the actual rates if you really want to know) . In terms of damper settings the range on PASM is FAR wider than you imply. In Normal it ranges from MUCH softer than standard to a bit stiffer than standard. In Sport damper ranges from similar to standard to MUCH stiffer. Ok, cool - Couldn’t 100% remember if the range was great than over the Standard <-> x73 total range or slightly within that total range.

TDT said: And a handy DIY video... https://youtu.be/uM3Zs0zvJSk You're welcome. Good find.

Twinfan said: I think the difference the DSC module makes is of most use on the 9x7 platform where PASM was less well developed. No-one seems to be using it on a 9x1 - the standard factory software seems to have been developed nicely, probably more in line with the 9x7 DSC coding (at a guess). There are people using it on 9x1, and I know of 1X GT4 in the UK that has it running. But yeah it probably has greater benefit on 9x7.

TDT said: Ok, cool - Couldn’t 100% remember if the range was great than over the Standard <-> x73 total range or slightly within that total range. Not slightly - VASTLY greater range - 4+ to 1 greater range.

jakesmith said: CastroSays said: I guess you're happy that a woman coming along there pushing a pram, perhaps with another toddler in tow has to walk on the street. Or a wheelchair user...... Moronic parking. Wtf!? This is a car forum Moronic post more like. I'm not sure if I should even try to explain how its a cul-de-sac in a secluded location with no dwellings opposite the staged car positions and only 3 more into the dead end. None of which house any disabled people although obviously one could jump out of the wood work at any moment. Most pedestrians use the completely empty pavement opposite because it naturally follows the inside curve of the cul-de-sac better or just walk down the middle of the road because no cars race down there as it's a dead end and goes nowhere. So please kill me as I'm arrogant and irresponsible. Rude and inconsiderate enough to positions 2 cars for a couple of pictures and then post them on the internet in a car forum without a thorough traffic flow diagram.

bcr5784 said: Porsche911R said: Always on but uses different % of the shock damping. Hence the DSC works for a few people as it uses 100% of the shock all the time. off say 20 to 60% on say 50 to 90% don't quote me I made that up but it's works like that. On don't really work imo. Could you explain that in English? PASM, depending on mode AND speed/G sensing PASM uses damping from settings that are MUCH softer than either X73 or standard to settings that are much harder than standard and (probably) harder than X73. not sure what you do not understand. PASM is always on, but does not use the full range of the damping, when off it prob goes no harder that 60%, when on, say it does not go lower than 50% if you hit a pot hole with it on you know about it. I have the figures some where but cannot find them. A DSC module uses 100% of the damping range 100% of the time.

Porsche911R said: not sure what you do not understand. PASM is always on, but does not use the full range of the damping, when off it prob goes no harder that 60%, when on, say it does not go lower than 50% if you hit a pot hole with it on you know about it. I have the figures some where but cannot find them. A DSC module uses 100% of the damping range 100% of the time. I didn't understand your explanation - had you added maximum stiffness and minimum stiffness of the damper unit it would have been clearer. If you read my previous post you would know I understand how it works. I was taking issue with your statement that X73 lies between normal and sport settings of PASM - it doesn't it's stiffer than either. Whether you" know all about it" when hitting a pothole in sport very much depends on what setting the control unit (in response to its G sensors) has decided to set the damper. Hitting a pothole at town speeds, even in sport, will be considerably less dramatic than with X73 since both the spring rate and damping will be softer. Using the whole of the damping range all the time seems like a bad idea to me, The one issue I have with PASM (and it is inevitable) is that in Normal it softens the damping off so much when cruising that in a sudden change of direction (say overtaking) the car feels floaty for a second until the damping stiffens up. That is easy to avoid if you have a sport mode which starts much stiffer - impossible if you haven't. Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 1st August 08:54

I only tend to switch PASM to "Sport Chassis" to control body undulations at high speed. Of course if you leave it in "Normal Chassis" mode it will still change to "Sport" on its own if it senses you are pressing on. Likewise, forget to switch out of "Sport" and it will offer a softer ride if it senses you are pootling around.

alltalk said: I'd always wanted a Porsche so when the time was right I read every article and decided a Cayman 981 GTS was for me - went for a test drive thought yes this is it ... So I've now had a PDK, 981, with 13k of options for a year and not really that fussed about driving it. Prefer my wife's Mini Cooper S, The 981 makes a great noise but you have to push the revs to get there. So thinking of making a change maybe the new 911T manual as I quite like the turbo feel (aware of all the haters but you can't tell me what I like and don't like). Would that work other options ? Also what's my Silver 981 worth 2014, 22k miles PDK with carbon/cruise/heated seat/dab/xenon/climate/ alcantara in gts pack silver etc. just had major service one original owner plus me supplied and serviced by same OPC - immaculate. alltalk. Well, there's certainly no accounting for taste! https://www.motortrend.com/news/find-out-if-the-po...

bcr5784 said: I was taking issue with your statement that X73 lies between normal and sport settings of PASM - it doesn't it's stiffer than either. Whether you" know all about it" when hitting a pothole in sport very much depends on what setting the control unit (in response to its G sensors) has decided to set the damper. Hitting a pothole at town speeds, even in sport, will be considerably less dramatic than with X73 since both the spring rate and damping will be softer. PASM on in a 981 is harsher hitting a pothole than x73 981. Body roll is less due to stiffer ARB and Springs in the x73 car. Springs just support the car ARB just stop roll. neither really effects hitting a pit hole, that is all to do with rebound in the shock damping in the main. with PASM on that was my point it cannot go to soft damping due to the range you have chosen and imo PASM on don't really work that well bar snooker table roads or on track. I have 2 cars I can show you side by side if you wish, but I don't really want to vid both cars going over potholes !!

Porsche911R said: PASM on in a 981 is harsher hitting a pothole than x73 981. Body roll is less due to stiffer ARB and Springs in the x73 car. Springs just support the car ARB just stop roll. neither really effects hitting a pit hole, that is all to do with rebound in the shock damping in the main. with PASM on that was my point it cannot go to soft damping due to the range you have chosen and imo PASM on don't really work that well bar snooker table roads or on track. I have 2 cars I can show you side by side if you wish, but I don't really want to vid both cars going over potholes !! I think we will have to disagree on that. You seem to have missed the point that since X73 is stiffer in both damping as well spring rates at town speeds compared with PASM even in Sport, it's bound to be harsher at those speeds.With 19" wheels Sport is absolutely fine on decent roads (and I hate unnecessarily hard suspension) . What you have said is true of the 987 but not the 981. Just been out in the car on an errand. Chose the roads with the worst surface I could find (they are BAD) and used PASM Sport (which I wouldn't normally dream of doing) Aimed at any potholes. At modest speed the ride, though naturally more jiggly than I would prefer, really wasn't bad. Put it this way it was a tad BETTER than a 718 I tried recently on standard suspension and 20" wheels. Which is pretty much what you would expect given that the 718 is set up stiffer than the 981. Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 12:20 Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 12:38

bcr5784 said: I think we will have to disagree on that. You seem to have missed the point that since X73 is stiffer in both damping as well spring rates at town speeds compared with PASM even in Sport, it's bound to be harsher at those speeds.With 19" wheels Sport is absolutely fine on decent roads (and I hate unnecessarily hard suspension) . What you have said is true of the 987 but not the 981. Just been out in the car on an errand. Chose the roads with the worst surface I could find (they are BAD) and used PASM Sport (which I wouldn't normally dream of doing) Aimed at any potholes. At modest speed the ride, though naturally more jiggly than I would prefer, really wasn't bad. Put it this way it was a tad BETTER than a 718 I tried recently on standard suspension and 20" wheels. Which is pretty much what you would expect given that the 718 is set up stiffer than the 981. you missed the point that PASM on cannot get to the soft damping of the shock. do the same in a 981 x73, o wait you cannot... as I said it's all to do with rebound how a pot hole feels not really spring rate. the rides also great with x73 I have 3 cars with x73 in both 987.2 and 981 no jiggle in a X73 car , PASM on is too hard , it is what it is.

Whilst I don’t want to get in the way of the tech egos hammering away at pointless intricacies “for the win” I would just offer my thoughts. PASM off tends to get a little ragged when pressing on down twisty roads. It is too soft meaning that sometimes it feels it is still dealing with the last event when you want it front and centre dealing with the next challenge. Switching PASM on gets the suspension standing to attention with much more control. Harsher ride but easier to place the car ‘cause it settles quicker. That is all.

The solution to all is to get X73 lol

JayK12 said: The solution to all is to get X73 lol I agree for a sports car X73 is bloody good choice. PASM while active all the time is still too soft off and too hard on. If PASM were that great Manthy would not ditch it on every car they build and also you would not have tech like the DCS module to do a better job of it. I never press it on in the GT4 or the GT3 I own, the rides s t with it on. Track only setting really. even on the S models it's not nice on imo.

Porsche911R said: you missed the point that PASM on cannot get to the soft damping of the shock. do the same in a 981 x73, o wait you cannot... as I said it's all to do with rebound how a pot hole feels not really spring rate. You keep on missing the point that in PASM Sport at modest speeds the damping will STILL be SLIGHTLY SOFTER than standard (non-PASM) cars. For what you say to be true X73 damping would have to be softer again. Are you really suggesting that X73 uses significantly softer damping than the standard (non-PASM) set up??!!! Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 14:19 Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 2nd August 15:59

bcr5784 said: You keep on missing the point that in PASM Sport at modest speeds the damping will STILL be SLIGHTLY SOFTER than standard (non-PASM) cars. For what you say to be true X73 damping would have to be softer again. Are you really suggesting that X73 uses significantly softer damping than the standard (non-PASM) set up??!!! +1 You are quite correct, PASM in Normal is softer than Standard, which is in turn softer than PASM in Sport. "Depending­ on­ the­ mode ­selected,­ PASM­ can­ be­ sportier­ or­ more­ comfortable­ than­ the­ standard­ chassis." From the brochure:

TDT said: There are people using it on 9x1, and I know of 1X GT4 in the UK that has it running. But yeah it probably has greater benefit on 9x7. I have been running DSC for two years on my 3.8 Cayman S which has fully adjustable suspension by Centre Gravity. DSC does react faster (c 6ms) to sensor inputs than PASM (which I understand is c 100 ms). However Bilstein dampers generally react to inputs around 100 ms and cannot react mid stroke. The range of stiffness for Bilstein dampers is often quoted as 1500ms to 500ms but the actual range is 1500ms to effectively zero ms. If you run DSC mapping calling for >1500ms you can overheat the dampers, running below 500ms does not cause overheating. Best value with DSC is to install electronic dampers that react faster and mid-stroke - I went with coilover Damptronics and a year later discovered DSC. Typical DSC mapping will set a damper range from 1500ms to 500ms for non-sport and 1300 to 350ms for sport. DSC will set the dampers' ms values depending on the mapping for G forces, Cambus braking force and other factors. I tried out over 25 maps before ending up with the one I now use. I have no understanding of the equivalent PASM operations. Getting away from thread focus but hopefully helpful comments re DSC.

gtsralph said: I have been running DSC for two years on my 3.8 Cayman S which has fully adjustable suspension by Centre Gravity. DSC does react faster (c 6ms) to sensor inputs than PASM (which I understand is c 100 ms). However Bilstein dampers generally react to inputs around 100 ms and cannot react mid stroke. The range of stiffness for Bilstein dampers is often quoted as 1500ms to 500ms but the actual range is 1500ms to effectively zero ms. If you run DSC mapping calling for >1500ms you can overheat the dampers, running below 500ms does not cause overheating. Best value with DSC is to install electronic dampers that react faster and mid-stroke - I went with coilover Damptronics and a year later discovered DSC. Typical DSC mapping will set a damper range from 1500ms to 500ms for non-sport and 1300 to 350ms for sport. DSC will set the dampers' ms values depending on the mapping for G forces, Cambus braking force and other factors. I tried out over 25 maps before ending up with the one I now use. I have no understanding of the equivalent PASM operations. Getting away from thread focus but hopefully helpful comments re DSC. Interesting stuff. Looks like DSC settings give much more overlap between Normal and Sport settings. With 981 PASM the stiffest setting in Normal is not very much stiffer than the softest setting in Sport (which has a much more restricted range than Normal) . The graphs I have seen for PASM don't give actual damper stiffness only an indication of the relative stiffness (and a pictorial representation of the range) of the two modes and how that compares with the non-PASM damping. of

Porsche911R said: . PASM while active all the time is still too soft off and too hard on. Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that.

James McScotty said: Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that. Agreed.

Twinfan said: James McScotty said: Not in my opinion. In normal it's perfect for most of our broken UK roads, but find a good surface, and Sport PASM is great for that. Agreed. +2 Spot on!

zainster said: +2 Spot on! +3 - there may be the odd disenting 981 PASM owner voice, but I suspect they will be very thin on the ground.

Porsche PASM is one of the best OEM suspension setups for a UK road car period, its one area Porsche are ahead of the field.

What's DSC?

ATM said: What's DSC? A 3rd party box of tricks which allows control of PASM over oem limits. Bit tricky to use and set up though imo, the company promised support and help and it never came, so you buy one and have a steep learning curve with outdated mapping. Great idea but alass without back up not easy to self tune. I would risk one on a GT4 as it showed good results on the PASM short comings. Would not bother on a 997 car as I would rip all the old crap out anyway. Better off with 2 dials on some passive shocks imo simples.

Going back to the OPs problem where after reading all the reviews he decided that the 981 CGTS was the car for him only to find that it isn’t. Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head. Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to. So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car? There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds. If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive. Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed. Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun. Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is. In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities. It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds.

Wollemi said: Going back to the OPs problem where after reading all the reviews he decided that the 981 CGTS was the car for him only to find that it isn’t. Firstly it highlights the problem of reading too many reviews, and it happens to all of us: we have absorbed a message and created a belief, in this case the one that a CGTS is totally wonderful, so it’s not surprising that after test drive that we agree with the reviews. It’s already in our head. Reviews of course have their place, but they are only one persons opinion and that will be conditioned by what else they have been driving recently and what they are unconsciously comparing it to. So what should the OP do? Probably not buy what someone CGTS doesn’t inspire him the way he hoped it would. What is he really looking for in his car? There’s a hint in the post that he was hoping for more driver involvement, especially at lower speeds. True, there is a tendency now for cars to only come alive at higher speeds. If I were to give advice, and since the point of his post was perhaps to get some so I shall, I make the following points, which are just my opinion Go for a manual gearbox, for me a always a greater involvement and more satisfying to drive. Get a car with good or great steering feel. This matters at any speed and a great steering car is just more I loving to drive whatever speed. Get an open top car. Top down feels faster, if you have a nice sounding engine you can hear it better and for me it is more fun. Have a engine with a good throttle response, this will most likely be a normally aspirated engine as a turbo tends to introduce some lag or hesitation regardless of how well executed it is. In my book the OPs car only had one of these desirable qualities. It why after five years I still get a thrill and real pleasure every single time I drive my manual 987.2 Boxster S whether I’m taking on track, a deserted Yorkshire dales road or just commuting into Leeds. Or read my reviews, they are far more honest :-)

Okay, I'm going to bite. @Slippydiff and Porsche911R have you guys ever met? Or are you related?

Slippydiff said: On the contrary, they’re more a combination of deluded, blinkered and cognitive bias than genuine reviews. I usually concur with Porsche911Rs views and enjoy his comments. Maybe our biases coincide?

Wollemi said: Slippydiff said: On the contrary, they’re more a combination of deluded, blinkered and cognitive bias than genuine reviews. I usually concur with Porsche911Rs views and enjoy his comments. Maybe our biases coincide? Car views are very personal and ultimately they are all about emotion. Maybe you're preferences are similar. No one is wrong here if they tell you what they like and why. You will get bashed if you tell people they are wrong because you can't tell someone else what to think, what to like or what to feel. That's when arguments start and some people on here will get pretty defensive. Me I just like the debate and I actually like cars too. Have you tried a 981?

ATM said: Car views are very personal and ultimately they are all about emotion. Maybe you're preferences are similar. No one is wrong here if they tell you what they like and why. You will get bashed if you tell people they are wrong because you can't tell someone else what to think, what to like or what to feel. That's when arguments start and some people on here will get pretty defensive. Me I just like the debate and I actually like cars too. Have you tried a 981? some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems. I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line.

Porsche911R said: some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems. I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line. I actually enjoy reading your posts as at least they're entertaining and straight to the point..There are some real offensive ar eholes on here, however i don't consider you one of them..

Porsche911R said: some times it just gets a bit personal and we know who those people are now, so they are best ignored. Some people just want a fight it seems. I love cars, but I don't get emotional about them to a point I'll call some one a c*** and that's where other people cross the line. I agree Cold, Chav or even Cute is totally unnecessary.

Taffy66 said: I actually enjoy reading your posts as at least they're entertaining and straight to the point..There are some real offensive ar eholes on here, however i don't consider you one of them.. I love reading every opinion on this forum, but there some notable contributors...

ATM said: Have you tried a 981? Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was.

Wollemi said: Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was. ;-)

Wollemi said: ATM said: Have you tried a 981? Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was. I read no reviews, walked into the dealership and fell for a Cayman 981 GTS, thought i really wanted one but drove the Boxster 981 GTS and brought that. The steering is an issue but for me there is no perfect car. The 987 was never an option because I didn't like the looks, so I went for the 981. Now I'm looking at making changes to it to enhance the bits i can for the better drive. If anyone finds me the perfect soft top, NA, manual, electric hood, 60K, let me know!

I am on my second 981 BGTS after selling the first one to get a 991.2 GTS (a great car but not the fun on an afternoon out unless doing very stupid speeds), so a costly change back to a BGTS and I'm very happy. On the steering, I think there is a massive difference for the worse if Power Steering Plus is fitted, without it the steering at low speeds is much better with decent feel - with PSP it's far too light and no feel. This may not suit everyone, but I too believe no car is perfect in all circumstances and to me the 981 BGTS is an absolute joy to use wether just cruising around or blasting along one of my favourite roads.

^ yep, I agree. It's all down to your own preference. I'm not that bothered about the lack of feel compared to a hydraulic system. It feels good enough to me, and the other qualities of the 981 are more important to me over any other alternatives.

Twinfan said: ^ yep, I agree. It's all down to your own preference. I'm not that bothered about the lack of feel compared to a hydraulic system. It feels good enough to me, and the other qualities of the 981 are more important to me over any other alternatives. Bit of a thread resurrection here chaps. I recently swapped out my early 981 CS for a very late 2016 981CGTS. The difference was very noticeable, going from 19" rims to 20" rims, both cars with Michelin P4s's. Much better grip and steering feel on the 20 inch rims. Both cars with PASM. I then had a geo setup done at RPM Technik pending a visit to Spa. Steering feel better again. Now have just fitted an X73 rear roll bar (P/N ending in 14) so not the stiffest available. I also fitted the 718 anti roll bar brace, a 10 minute job. Turn in is superb. I would guess this is why people think steering feel is so much better on the 718. Stiffer roll bars taking a bit of slop out of the system.

I've gone totally the other way. Started using my 18 inch winters for summer. Bought the slimmest tyres I could find with the lowest load rating. Got 215 45 18 fronts and then matched with some +30 rears. Chose Conti Premium Contact 6 and they're brilliant. Cars rides like a Rolls Royce [standard passive dampers] but turns in as well as I could ever want.

Wollemi said: Yes, and I hated the numb and inert steering; and this was some time ago when I hadn’t yet read any criticism of the steering. All I had read were the glowing reviews in the press, so I was quite surprised by how devoid of any real feel it was. I fully agree on this. I had a 981 GTS full spec. And it had the worst steering I've ever encountered. Numb, inert; YES ! A very slow initial steering response and a far too great self centering force to it. I always had the idea to fight the steering forces while cornering. It made me crazy, and I sold the car only after 14 months, I couldn `t become friends with that kind of steering, as much as I did like the car and how beautiful it was specced. I test drove later on a 981 Gt4, and that steering convinced me more, the difference was night and day! Later I bought a 718 GT4, far more better steering to the 981 series Now I've a GT4RS on order, and have no doubts about steering what so ever.

Romo said: I fully agree on this. I had a 981 GTS full spec. And it had the worst steering I've ever encountered. Numb, inert; YES ! A very slow initial steering response and a far too great self centering force to it. I always had the idea to fight the steering forces while cornering. It made me crazy, and I sold the car only after 14 months, I couldn `t become friends with that kind of steering, as much as I did like the car and how beautiful it was specced. I test drove later on a 981 Gt4, and that steering convinced me more, the difference was night and day! Later I bought a 718 GT4, far more better steering to the 981 series Now I've a GT4RS on order, and have no doubts about steering what so ever. What was your geometry setup like on the GTS? Presumably you had it checked out as just a bit out of spec will make it feel horrible...