993 C2S vs 993 C4S - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi All, Apart from the obvious RWD vs 4WD are there any other major differences between the 2 versions of 993s? I read somewhere that the 4WD system adds 100kg to the weight of the car. This together with the increased transmissions losses must make the C4S slightly slower. Is that the compromise for having the safety of 4WD? Does anybody know how the Porsche 4WD system works? Is it mainly RWD biased until it determines slip? What sort of percentages of drive are transfered? Is it really necessary to have 4WD in a 993 since the general concensus is towards RWD for pure sportscars? Are the 2 cars a noticably different to drive? Is one system more proned to problems than the other? Are these cars only available in certain colours? I have only ever seen a handful of colours for these models and these seemed quite conservative, eg. black, blue, arena red. Not that I want an outrageous colour like yellow but I just want to know what is out there. Thanks, MaKS

Hi, Right. C2S is wide body (30kg more than C2) and split rear grille whch is colour coded. Also had Turbo front and rear bumpers. C4S is wide body and 4wd (80kg more than C2, 30kg more than C4). Also had turbo front and rear bumpers, but crucially comes with turbo brakes, turbo look-a-like wheels (18" turbo twist), and turbo suspension. There's really no difference in acceleration or top speed between C2, C4, C2S and C4S. What little difference there may be on a stopwatch is negligible in the real world. Porsche 4wd system is 95% rear and 5% front. Viscous coupling system. When rear slip is apparent, the viscous coupling transfers up to 40% front and 60% rear, so increasing traction under power whilst maitaining rwd bias. Very hard to feel the difference between C2 and C4 on a dry road, even pushing hard. C2S to C4S is not comparable because of suspension differences. Colours? Anything you like, though of course some were more popular than others (dark blues, silver, black). Search the threads, you'll find lots of info about C2S/C4S comparisons and questions. VS

I'm a new owner of a 993 2S (hopefully will post pics at some point!) and had the same questions as you when I was looking. My conclusions: *Hardly any difference on the road. IMO you need to drive a 993 2S like complete prat to lose it, especially in the dry. 993 2S had more feel from the steering IMO. The 4 is little more surefooted in the wet though. *Unless you taking your car on the track alot the 2's brakes are more than adequate for road use. Big reds do look nice though! *2 has a slighly bigger boot! *Running costs more on a 4, eg. insurance, brake/clutch replacements. *2S is a rarer car as it was only around for 1 year. 4S had a longer production run. *2S had some neat details - colour coded split rear spoiler, graphite dash clock bezels/gear knob/handbrake/sills and Carrera S on the rev counter. At the end of the day make your judgement on how it drives/history/condition. They're both fine cars, so unless you've got a massive preference for one over another buy the best you can! >> Edited by 993_2s on Sunday 3rd July 12:01

If you've got the money for a 4s (which always seems more expensive than the 2, probably due to being a turbo without the turbos) then why not go the extra distance and get a turbo? Two years on and my turbo still presses all the right buttons and I cannot imagine being without it.

Very helpful guys, thanks. I think I will try to go for the 4S which was my preference before I started asking questions, but I will not count a good 2S out. So the 2S does not have the turbo suspension either? What wheels does it come with as standard? I was also told it does not have a/c as standard. I am confused with the brakes. Are the "big reds" the same as the turbo brakes? I'm guessing 4 piston and drilled. And the 2S does not have these turbo brakes?

Hi, I bought a 4S 18 months back and have enjoyed every second of ownership. The 18" wheels on the 2S have hollow spokes as opposed to the solid 18" ones on the 4S. Brakes on the 4S are indeed the turbo (big reds) and whilst the standard brakes are very competent the upgrade path is eye-poppingly expensive should you decide you need more than just red resprayed calipers. The 4S suspension is again from the turbo and the entire package performs superbly and a weekend at the Ring allowed me to stretch the cars legs without it biting as hard as it had every right too when I completely screwed up one corner... All I would like to say is that Domster is a remarkably calm person in the face of a few armfuls of opposite lock and a spell on the grass. Oops. Anyway, both 2S and 4S will be better cars than most people will ever have need for and a test drive off of a racetrack is unlikely to reveal much in the way of real world differences. Alan makes a very valid point though and that is that the prices of high mile Turbo 4's are comparable to a tidy 4S. The 4S suits me but are you really sure you want the show without all the go... The 4S sounds nicer though. Enjoy choosing but don't rule out the Turbo 4 until you have driven one. Regards, Ian D >> Edited by ian_dorrian on Sunday 3rd July 18:39

I've had the 4S and the turbo (in fact i drive the turbo every day now) and the 4S sounds much better, but the turbo's mid range is on a whole different level. Look, if you find the right car, whether it's a 2S, 4S, or turbo, you're going to be very very happy VS just a point to note, the 2S came with 17's as standard, but as Ian said if you ticked the 18" upgrade box then the 18's you got were hollow spokes like the turbo

Whatever a car had as standard when new may now be irrelevant (I think the 2S was lowered and maybe with firmer springs), because you may find many have had replacement dampers and / or springs by now, so it would be worth checking what's fitted to any prospective purchase.

Didn't the 4S have full leather as standard too....and of course the front white indicators and rear reds. Also what about the computer? My 4S has one but is not listed on the extra codes so must have been standard.

You could of course save money and go for a good C4!

The 2S has lowered suspension (over a normal Carrera 2) but not to Turbo spec, which is what the 4S has. I think AC was standard on the 2S - all the ones I've seen have it. Big reds are the Turbo brakes. They have bigger calipers painted red and slightly larger discs. Carrera 2S has normal Carrera calipers (black). These are 4 piston, and the discs, like all 993s are vented and drilled all round. 4S also got full leather - dash and door trim as well as the seats in leather. Standard wheels on the 2S were 17" Cups, however most had the 18" turbo wheels fitted. As has been mentioned the 2S 18" wheels are the hollow "technology" versions - same as the Turbo. The 4S had 18" wheels as standard but strangely these are solid spoke.

The 4S and 2S could be ordered with a choice of standard suspension or M030 option. The M030 is lower than standard and only slightly stiffer. The front springs on M030 are identical to Turbo fronts, but the rear M030 springs are slightly softer than Turbo rears (as the turbo rear weighs more). Front sway bar for M030 = turbo, but non-M030 is smaller. Rear sway bar on the Turbo is bigger than M030 rear bar, which is bigger than non-M030 rear bar.

Sorry, beg to differ, the ROW (non North American market) C4S had suspension that is almost exactly the same as the Turbo's AS STANDARD, and the C2S had standard C2 suspension AS STANDARD. You will never find a ROW C4S with C4 ride height, whereas a good proportion of ROW C2S are still at standard C2 ride height (though lots got 18's and lowered suspension, which is very nice). VS

4s is the best cross country drive you'll get. Sure footed with an extra margin of safety for cross country driving especially in the wet! cant beat the big red turbo brakes and turbo suspension for setup s an everyday car.

Especially being the operative word here, new owner being the operative phrase. I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences of a C2S in anything other than perfect conditions. Unless your driving skills are similar to Mario Andretti or you drive like a nun the C2S is a big handful in bad conditions. Ask my insurance company!

Fair point Simon, my experiences of the 993 S are pretty limited at the moment. I've driven it alot in the wet though and it feels a bit more nervous taking r/bouts, but I just take it easy! To be honest I'm happy going easy in the wet and then driving a little more enthusiastically when conditions allow. I still maintain you've got to be going pretty quickly on the wrong roads to lose it. What happened in your accident? How much easier to drive is the C4 in the wet?? >> Edited by 993_2s on Tuesday 5th July 18:44 >> Edited by 993_2s on Tuesday 5th July 18:45

Other than in snow and ice a 911 will not lose rear traction if driven slowly. I once drove a 964 at about 5mph and got lift off oversteer, but it was in heavy snow and range rovers were hitting kerbs. It sounds like you're driving your 911 exactly the same way I do now, ie unless it's dry take it steady. Don't get me wrong I drove the 993 fast in the wet and was quite impressed right up to the point........... The ironic thing are the quotes that ring round my head from C2S owners who are very skilled drivers; "That is a truly dangerous car." and "Whatever you do get ready for it to bite you in the a**e when you least expect it.". The funniest was a new owner who bought a car from a good friend "I want my money back on this car, it's faulty. I'm trying to get to Edinburgh on the A1 and it keeps pointing me towards London.". Bear in mind (thanks LeeME3) that I had 18" turbo look alloys on the car which make things even worse. I drove into a 40mph right hander, turned into the apex with balanced throttle then progressively applied the throttle(ok I nailed it, but nothing I hadn't done in 911s a thousand times). The car accelerated then hit a patch of light mud which some workmen had generously spilt onto the road. The steering went light and I immediately piled on armfuls of opposite lock. I knew what was coming, but couldn't believe how quickly it went sideways. The car skidded along the road and I remember thinking "this is too fast". The mud ended and the read end gripped. The polar moment of intertia was MASSIVE and the car swung out the opposite way, more lock stopped it from spinning, but the car was too sideways and was heading towards a ditch. First the bushes scratched the bumper and I thought "s**t, the paintwork", then the bumper hit the ditch and I thought "s**t, the bodywork", then the car turned over through the ditch and flew through the air upside down, and I thought (honest) "996 next I think". It landed hard on it's roof then rolled and rolled for eternity before I eventually climbed out of the side window. The strength of the car was simply amazing. The roof took the entire initial impact, but the a-pillars were so strong the windscreen didn't even crack. A good friend, ex-racing driver, and 911 expert analysed the situation and said "You haven't got the skill to cope with an out of shape 911 at that speed. You should've taken your hands and feet off all the controls and let it do whatever it wanted until it straightend and then mashed the brakes.". I asked "What about panic?". He looked blank. Fecking racing drivers.

Hello, brandnew in this forum, calling you from good old germany. First at all sorry for my poor english. Presently I`m on the way to buy a 993 4 S from a guy in spain, but if I take a look to the prices for a 997, I`m not sure the 993 will be best choice. Be advised the car would be my first porsche at all, and of course its basic presentatation gives the 993 an amazing factor of good old german technology, last air cooled, cockpit like the 964 and so on. It seem`s there are some specialist among you, so could you give some facts 993 vers. 997. Good old air cooled vers. newest technique / garage queen vers. high tech car.... or even choosing a Cayman S ? So cayman S vers. 993 ? A further question: buying the car in foreign eu country (France, spain, italy etc.) - are there any things to be noticed? Thanks a lot, vielen Dank, looking forward to hearing any opinions and ideas Heinrich

shed17 said: You could of course save money and go for a good C4! I'd suggest a good C2 on 17" cups is the best drive. The 993 C4 on 18" turbo twists I had tramlined on any camber ( and it was perfectly aligned).

IMO standard C2 on 17 inch wheels does feel more agile, lighter and ride is better than the 4-wheel drive 993s and particularly the wide-bodied versions. Depends if handling or looks are higher on your priority list (and whether you want to pay the premium for a 2S/4S). I tried the 993tt as an alternative to a straight C2 but although the straight-line speed was fun it seemed more of a GT/smooth A-road type of car. At least, I had a decent test-drive in one (completely standard) and took it to some nice back roads close to the dealer. The roads were a bit bumpy but I don't think it would have been a problem in my C2. However, the turbo needed constant corrections and seemed to be sniffing out change of camber. Put me off.

Heinrich said: Hello, brandnew in this forum, calling you from good old germany. First at all sorry for my poor english. Presently I`m on the way to buy a 993 4 S from a guy in spain, but if I take a look to the prices for a 997, I`m not sure the 993 will be best choice. Be advised the car would be my first porsche at all, and of course its basic presentatation gives the 993 an amazing factor of good old german technology, last air cooled, cockpit like the 964 and so on. It seem`s there are some specialist among you, so could you give some facts 993 vers. 997. Good old air cooled vers. newest technique / garage queen vers. high tech car.... or even choosing a Cayman S ? So cayman S vers. 993 ? A further question: buying the car in foreign eu country (France, spain, italy etc.) - are there any things to be noticed? Thanks a lot, vielen Dank, looking forward to hearing any opinions and ideas Heinrich Willkommen zum Forum! It would be useful if you added some detail as to how you will use the car: i.e. will it be your only car, used every day (if so 997 / Cayman might be more appropriate), or is it a second car, just for the weekend (where I would recommend 993 or other air-cooled 911)? How much do you have to spend? How much are you prepared to lose (997s and Caymans going to lose more value than 993)? I don't know the markets in Spain and France but not sure whether they have the same approach to maintenance and upkeep of cars as in Germany. Of course, that could reflect that I've spent too long in the German-speaking of Switzerland, where the people here even look suspiciously at cars from the French or Italian regions of Switzerland! I'm not saying that there aren't good cars in Spain but I'd be even more cautious if buying one there and would only do so after a full inspection (and preferably by someone I could trust). Buena suerte!

993_2s said: The 2S has lowered suspension (over a normal Carrera 2) but not to Turbo spec, which is what the 4S has. I think AC was standard on the 2S - all the ones I've seen have it. Big reds are the Turbo brakes. They have bigger calipers painted red and slightly larger discs. Carrera 2S has normal Carrera calipers (black). These are 4 piston, and the discs, like all 993s are vented and drilled all round. 4S also got full leather - dash and door trim as well as the seats in leather. Standard wheels on the 2S were 17" Cups, however most had the 18" turbo wheels fitted. As has been mentioned the 2S 18" wheels are the hollow "technology" versions - same as the Turbo. The 4S had 18" wheels as standard but strangely these are solid spoke. Its not just the big reds that differ,the 4s uses a fully pumped hydraulic brake system with an acumulator sphere as does the turbo which also drives a "power assisted clutch", hence the brakes have more power and are more durable as not powered by a conventional servo however some say there isnt as much feel through the pedal,Im not sure if the 4s has a power assist to the clutch.

Love it when folk dig up 7 year old threads and folk don't notice

Gary11 said: Im not sure if the 4s has a power assist to the clutch. Nope, clutch is not assisted on the 4S. Felt much lighter on the 993TT. .

Go for either. I only went 4S due to the condition of the car. On reflection, I'm not the best of drivers and it rains a lot in the peak district. I get the feeling I'd have crashed a 2S by now Good hunting

OlberJ said: Love it when folk dig up 7 year old threads and folk don't notice Good spot! But I must say I found it quite informative seeing as I'm looking at 993's at the moment

Cedric's Dad said: Go for either. I only went 4S due to the condition of the car. On reflection, I'm not the best of drivers and it rains a lot in the peak district. I get the feeling I'd have crashed a 2S by now Good hunting Knowing of someone who lost control and wrote off a C2S exiting a roundabout where there was a diesel spill the above could be sound advice. In the dry either model is fantastic with the limit beyond most drivers abilities but in the wet with a lack of modern aids its a whole new ball-game and once the back-end kicks out it is advisable to have some spare undies to hand.

Stunning C4S listed https://www.joemacari.com/stock/porsche-993-carrer... Black Pearl Metallic over a stunning special order Nephrite Green leather interior

....but why resurrect a ten year old thread which compares two-wheel drive with four-wheel drive versions?

julian987R said: Stunning C4S listed https://www.joemacari.com/stock/porsche-993-carrer... Black Pearl Metallic over a stunning special order Nephrite Green leather interior looks like it has sold. Not very keen on the interior

Those fat arse 993 C4S’s don’t drive as good as they look. That’s apparently - as I’ve never tried one, but just saying, as well discussed elsewhere here. Re this one. Great looking exterior. Really not sure about that ‘individual’ interior. Don’t think I’d have specced that way if I had the money in the 90s, but some people’s poison etc…

Orangecurry said: ....but why resurrect a ten year old thread which compares two-wheel drive with four-wheel drive versions? and there I was trying to help by sharing a nice 993 C4S listing in a C4S and C2S thread. You are welcome. Blimey, some people.

SRT Hellcat said: looks like it has sold. Not very keen on the interior Wow that went within a day of coming available. I bet in real life that interior is amazing.

First Sea Lord said: Those fat arse 993 C4S’s don’t drive as good as they look. That’s apparently - as I’ve never tried one, but just saying, as well discussed elsewhere here. Re this one. Great looking exterior. Really not sure about that ‘individual’ interior. Don’t think I’d have specced that way if I had the money in the 90s, but some people’s poison etc… One of the most underwhelming cars I have owned from a driving pov. Stunning to look at and sounded epic but that was it.

moonigan said: First Sea Lord said: Those fat arse 993 C4S’s don’t drive as good as they look. That’s apparently - as I’ve never tried one, but just saying, as well discussed elsewhere here. Re this one. Great looking exterior. Really not sure about that ‘individual’ interior. Don’t think I’d have specced that way if I had the money in the 90s, but some people’s poison etc… One of the most underwhelming cars I have owned from a driving pov. Stunning to look at and sounded epic but that was it. Ah but not as underwhelming as a 718Gt4 I bet.

julian987R said: Orangecurry said: ....but why resurrect a ten year old thread which compares two-wheel drive with four-wheel drive versions? and there I was trying to help by sharing a nice 993 C4S listing in a C4S and C2S thread. You are welcome. Blimey, some people. But why? Why not just 'start' a thread about a car for sale, which has nothing to do with the original thread. You seem to be on a mission to make other people into the bad guys. I just asked why, and you chuck in the teenage sarcasm. And Nephrite is hideous in real life. I even saw a Forest green 996 with Nephrite interior. Golly.

Orangecurry said: But why? Why not just 'start' a thread about a car for sale, which has nothing to do with the original thread. You seem to be on a mission to make other people into the bad guys. I just asked why, and you chuck in the teenage sarcasm. And Nephrite is hideous in real life. I even saw a Forest green 996 with Nephrite interior. Golly. Well I don't know. I was looking for a 993 thread and figured this is as good as any, rather than start over. You know very well if I'd started a new thread someone would have said, plenty of 993 threads already to use. No hard feelings

moonigan said: One of the most underwhelming cars I have owned from a driving pov. That's quite a statement when looking at your previously owned. Care to elaborate?

993 C4S King of Porsche

stuttgartmetal said: 993 C4S King of Porsche What happened to yours, exactly?

browngt3 said: That's quite a statement when looking at your previously owned. Care to elaborate? It was the steering I had the biggest issue with. It felt numb and slow to respond which I have always attributed to the 4WD. I perhaps came into it with my expectations too high.

Of the four Porsches I've been fortunate to own (928 S4, 993 C4S, 996.2 GT3 and 997.2 C2S) the 993 was my favourite, notwithstanding the offset pedals which gave me back ache in prolonged stop-start traffic. I did run it as my daily driver, though, so that probably wouldn't be so much of an issue now. To my eyes, it's still the prettiest 911. I'd love to get another, but just can't wrap my head around spending £100k on one sadly.

moonigan said: browngt3 said: That's quite a statement when looking at your previously owned. Care to elaborate? It was the steering I had the biggest issue with. It felt numb and slow to respond which I have always attributed to the 4WD. I perhaps came into it with my expectations too high. Interesting. I think it has lovely steering with loads of feel. Sure it's heavy for PAS but I don't find it slow to respond. Maybe it's down to set up and worn bushes, shocks etc. Mine was transformed by fitting bilsteins. Also had a new steering rack which can fail on 993s. Compared to modern Porsches with electric steering I think the 993 is night and day better. I'd even put it ahead of my Dad's 997GTS for steering feel

993C4S boring as f**k. Fast, hangs on very well, nice and quiet inside but just boring. I sold a 964 Celebration for one and it was the worst mistake - including financially - I made with Porsches. The second worst was selling the 996GT3....

julian987R said: Stunning C4S listed https://www.joemacari.com/stock/porsche-993-carrer... Black Pearl Metallic over a stunning special order Nephrite Green leather interior Another nice one listed. Claims to be the best one available https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14150046

The best one... for sale. And it's not a WB. But apart from that ETA ...actually I remember someone on here sourcing that about a year ago? Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 10th February 22:38

Orangecurry said: The best one... for sale. And it's not a WB. But apart from that ETA ...actually I remember someone on here sourcing that about a year ago? Edited by Orangecurry on Friday 10th February 22:38 it does look rather special though

Prefer NB, but not sure about black on 993s. And, think it looks a bit ‘blingy’ in the Topaz pics. Far better a little dirty and on the correct wheels - for a 993.

Koln-RS said: Prefer NB, but not sure about black on 993s. And, think it looks a bit ‘blingy’ in the Topaz pics. Far better a little dirty and on the correct wheels - for a 993. its a little dirty in this pic of it https://img.pistonheads.com/LargeSize/porsche/911-...

I was looking for ages at buying a 993, in the end I bought a standard Carrera 2, manual coupe. I couldn’t see the point in paying so much extra for a wide body version when the engine / performance was identical, I just preferred buying a lighter car with a sleeker shape. That was a decade ago, in the meantime I’ve had 9 other Porsches come and go yet the 993 is still in the garage. I will never sell it. I will say though that initially I found the steering feel a bit numb and boring, the car felt more of a GT cruiser rather than a sports car. I took it to Centre Gravity and asked them to make the steering more ‘Go Kart’ and direct in feel like a 964- which they did, and a decade later I still love driving it, from doing the school run to road trips to Portugal. Certainly not a cheap car to keep on the road in good order but well worth it imho and more interesting than a bland new car. You don’t tend to see many 993’s out and about. So personally I think finding a decent manual coupe is more important than finding a wide body