Help me understand: Another thread about deep sumps, aos, and underdrive pulleys

I've spent hours reading numerous threads about what is "needed," but I'm still a little lost. I'm asking these questions because from my experience, forums get people excited about throwing money at their cars. Upgrade this, upgrade that, if you don't upgrade these parts the engine will fail. But in reality, the car is well engineered and perfectly capable stock. Many of the common upgrades aren't actually needed and the engine is at the same level of risk with or without them. I wish to carefully invest my money into the longevity this car and not just throw every part at it. My 2008 987S is going to see track days and autocross, but nothing more than 20 minute un-timed track sessions; I'm out to have fun and not to race. I will usually be running on some fairly sticky tires, so more significant Gs are expected. It seems like the X51 oil pan is an absolute must. I like the idea of the baffles more than just increasing volume with a spacer. What all is actually needed? Just the oil pan? Do I need an oil pump that sits lower too? Is the accusump really necessary for my intended driving? The motorsport AOS... Absolute necessity? Strongly recommended? Or only replace it if the stock part fails? I've read a few posts about running a larger oil filter, is it worth it? Other brands and parts I should consider? I've also read a lot of mixed reviews on underdrive pulleys and what size belt to run with it. I don't care about the performance benefit, but want to save the power steering pump if that's a concern. I found a lot of posts where people had issues after installing an underdrive pulley, so I'm wondering if stock is best. I plan to replace the belt soon and I'll do an underdrive pulley at the same time if it truly is a worthwhile upgrade. Thanks in advance for your knowledge and help!

"I'm asking these questions because from my experience, forums get people excited about throwing money at their cars." You think? lol I could not agree with you more. I'll make one suggestion. You hold off on the "sticky tires" and use the money to get lessons, which I'll bet will be for more useful. Once your hooked, assuming that happens, and you want sticky tires then upgrades to brakes, and lubrication would be next . I've read more than one article about the perils of the new race compound street tires put on non prepped cars with disastrous results. So you might want to upgrade that sump prior to graduating to stickier tires. Good Luck and have fun.

From what I undestand I would ,do the deep dump and udp first and take it from there. It is basic protection. FWIW that’s how I started the slippery slope. I’ve done 15000 track miles since with no issues. It’s about half the mileage on the car. Of course the car has been really track prepped since. Good luck withbthe slippery slope!

Thanks for the suggestion! I always suggest lessons first as well, but I've been racing for years, so I'm already hooked. I'm just starting out on a new journey with a new car. Racing brake fluid has already been flushed through the system and I'll be upgrading the oil with the Deep Sump install. I've done one event to get a feel for this car and the PS4S tires are already at their limit. They're good for a spirited commuter, but they don't like heat cycles. It's also a bit frustrating that my heavy Volvo track car can take corners faster than my Porsche! After the driver mod, fluids, brakes, and tires are best things to upgrade (in my opinion). The fact that the owners manual states a threat of oil starvation when running racing tires, means I'm not taking any risks with the M97 engine. I should probably specify... I'm not doing relaxed 20 minute sessions, I'm usually out there pushing the car to its limits and enjoying myself. What I meant was: I'm willing to pit after 10 or 15 minutes if the car needs it; then I'll know what additional parts to buy to stay out there longer the next time. It's not like I'll be loosing points or positions by not being on the track. I'm not going to go overkill with parts, like I have on past cars. After all, these engines love to rev and seem very much at home on the track. But $800 for a deep sump seems like a cheap better-safe-than-sorry investment. Thanks for all the advice in this thread! After doing additional research and talking on a few other forums, I have made up my mind. I'm going to get the Mantis Deep Sump Kit 2 (the 2.0L one) and probably go with the Mantis Underdrive Pulley and nothing else. I really appreciate that they have real data numbers and a significant amount of track tested proof of reliability. Their prices align well with competitor's products and I have not read a single negative review about their deep sump or pulley. The pulley might not be a necessity yet, but since I'm replacing the belt, it'll be a convenient time to swap it on.

I don't see it mentioned in this thread, however I'd recommend another serious consideration is to add the center radiator. Since the oil is cooled by the coolant for these cars, its important to add that additional cooling capacity. Its probably one of the first mods/upgrades that should be done for any of these cars that are going to spend anytime on the track regardless of what tires will be run. It seems to be a pretty logical upgrade to prevent the oil from reaching higher temperatures and thinning out. Fortunately, its very reasonably priced! I didn't experience any issues with radiator and deep sump upgrades until I started running stickier tires. Once I started running stickier tires(r-comps), power steering fluid leaked/boiled out and started having disturbingly smoky start-ups between sessions. An under-drive pulley should help to prevent power steering fluid from leaking, however it appears to have mixed results across forums. Some need additional ps cooling, while others the pulley alleviated the issue. Another mention is to remove the checkball on the valve on one of the power steering lines, but that doesn't appear to be as well-discussed/popular compared to the pulley. The motorsports AOS or the 996/fabricated motorsports AOS prevents the super smoky start-ups that can occur between sessions. With less oil being ingested/recirc'ed into the intake during the time on the track, this would be a good benefit in terms of engine longevity. Unless its a competition, its probably not worth revving out the motor to its redline, so short-shifting is advisable to prevent rod bolt stretch/spun bearings which has detrimental results aka engine rebuild. TLDR: If the car is getting tracked at all, center radiator + deep sump. If R comps/stickies, additional mods like AOS/PS cooling are likely necessary. Short-shift, on the track, if its a daily/street driven 987.1 .

Thanks for the additional suggestions! I was looking into 3rd radiators, but thinking about waiting on that. I will have an oil temp and pressure gauge in the car before the start of next season, so I can at least keep an eye on things and stop if it gets too hot. But while on the topic, any suggestion for 3rd radiator kits?

ecs, pelican, sun coast all offer a kit. Its surprisingly affordable considering the 'usual porsche tax.' I believe the part # is: 99704410005. Of course do your research. I'd recommend adding it before next season, its a really good value compared to other mods. There is a little extra cost of running to the local dealership for concentrated or premixed coolant. You'll need a little more coolant if you recycle, or a fair amount more if you full flush. Burping the system takes a little bit of time(couple drives) or a good ramp/incline. Its a good time to dremel some additional slots in the radiator exhaust vents on both wheel liners to help the L/R radiators. Curiously, how are you wiring up the oil temp/pressure sensor?

Oh wow, only $200 for most of these kits. I'll definitely toss that on before the Spring. Even if I don't "need" it, that's cheap enough and it can't hurt. Thanks! I haven't looked into where to tap for my oil sensor. But I've had these gauges from past builds, so I'm sure I'll figure something out. If you have any suggestions for that, I'm all ears!

Like the OP on this thread, I've read all I can on several forums regarding oil supply. I understand the desirability of deep sumps, upgraded AOS, underdrive pulleys, etc. The good news is that our cars have many alternative approaches available to us. The bad news is that it's hard to sort out the best and most cost effective solution. I think my case and question will apply to many Boxster and Cayman owners...... I have a 2006 Cayman S with 45,000 miles, regular documented maintenance, and, at the last oil change a month ago, a clean Blackstone report and no bits in the oil filter. So I'm starting from a good place. My intended use for the car is a fun car for the mountains of western NC and possibly one or two PDE's in 2019 for experience with the car. There is enough hard tight cornering that some additional oil system protection seems like good insurance. At the last oil change, I swapped out the standard filter for an LN spin-on adapter and NAPA/Wix 1042 oil filter. This seemed like an easy first step that is also easily reversible. My further thinking is the most cost effective approach is the X51 or maybe better the EBS baffle on the stock oil pan. A 2 quart extension would likely more than needed for my use and also increase potential ground clearance issues. The .5 quart extensions seem like marginal change for the cost although none of the options are prohibitively expensive. Some posts have discussed some install challenges in fitting the EBS baffle. Is this a concern? I did consider buying a used stock pan to clean up and pre-install the baffle. At this point, the EBS baffle on a stock pan looks like a good option although the LN .5 or Mantis 1.2L pans are alternatives. Any thoughts on this. One additional related question not referenced above...there is a lot of discussion about using 996 swirl pots in the sump for better oil circulation. The parts are cheap and apparently easy to swap, but again not a lot of good info on issues with existing parts AND whether all of these parts will work together. The goal of all this is really an extra layer of insurance, not likely to be needed, but a good investment. I suspect there are many with the same thought process. Any comments appreciated.

I posted this same question on a few other forums and the answers have been mostly the same. But there have been a lot of good comments on the ******** post, definitely worth a quick read: https://********.com/forums/987-981...p-me-understand-another-thread-about-deep-sumps-aos-and-underdrive-pulleys.html

The center radiator kit works really well; with 500hp in my 987.1 I stay at 196f on the track

RWP- LN deep sump with windage plate is the way to go to prevent rod bearing scaring from oil starvation. LN suggests to use the 997 down tube rather than 996 swirl pots because the 996 swirl pots restrict free flow of oil to the windage plate. LN says that this is necessary to prevent oil collection in the heads at high RPM, long radius high G turns, being there are only two oil scavenger pumps rathar than 4 in the later 09 engine. The windage plate does a fine job of reducing the air in the oil as it filters down into the lower sump. LN recommends Joe Gibbs Driven XP -9 because it does not cause oil foam in the heads. The down side to a windage plate is that oil is collected there on its way the the deep sump, and is available to slosh up the sump walls into the vacuum hole on the roof of the sump which the AOS accesses. Autocross with large footprint RE71R tires through 6 cone/gate slalom feature can cause severe oil sloshing into the OEM AOS, as I found out. After a couple of these oil events, I changed to the Porsche Motor sports AOS and no problems after. A couple of 996 owners on P9, 911 general category, ( Thread: 996 smoking only on track after 2nd AOS ) complaining about their AOS being oiled down after hard track usage, so I would rethink that idea of using a non water heated 996 AOS to solve this issue. A couple of LN deep sump 10 1/2 Qt owners have reported 242 degree temps during extended track runs and are happy about that result, while not below 200 as joshuaj noted, the oil temp is not in the critical breakdown zone of most race oils like XP-9. Without the oil temp gauge I am in the dark, so thats on my list. LN does make a sump protector plate that I installed under my deep sump to prevent speed bumps from scrapping bottom of the sump. I run lowered 36 mm on Ohlins coilovers. So for a few bucks, I do have good oil starvation protection. But I am going to look at the third radiator, VDO oil pressure and temp gauges.

MNIWT I like your approach and have followed something very similar. I also have 2008 Cayman but 2.7 and just finished my first year of DE with 8 days in total. My car needed a clutch and while they were there I had Numerics installed. Then I did an LN deep sump and baffle after getting some valve tick on a skid pad. Picked the LN mostly because I liked the idea of metal flaps over plastic and caught a good price. My car only measured 209 F after an August session at WGI according to the Torque app but won't compare to your weather in GA. My water pump is holding nicely but when it leaks I will add the third radiator and most likely 160 thermostat. Lower temps=higher oil pressure and these cars are always very low. You can find the 996 third radiator kit for $200 but I think you will need to get the 987 duct which is about $100 dollars. The dedicated 987 kit is usually $400 with this. My goal is 6K shifts to be nice to the rod bolts but on track I have hit the rev limiter a few times. AOS is holding well but tempted to get one as a spare. The 987 motorsport is horribly expensive but many say it is worth it. Many of the Cayman owners I have met this year are on their second or third engine with various upgrades. Some guys can break an anvil with feather so I don't know if it is luck or aggressive driving but I am having a lot of fun and trying not to worry. Luckily, the 2.7 seems to be more durable than the 3.4 so I will keep going. Let us know how you install the gauges

Choose your tires first and that will determine what oil sump protection you need. In my own experience with 10 years and 100+ track days in a 986 running near the pointy end of the time sheet for street cars. This is what I did and never had an oil starvation issue, overheat, or damaged AOS, or PS pump: 1. X51 pan 2. 5w40 Castrol changed every 4k miles or 6 months, make sure the oil is topped off before each session. 3. UD pulley 4. NT-01 tires 5. Stay well off redline while in a long sweeper, 4-6k is plenty of torque. Save redline for those long flat straights where it matters most. 6. When entering the braking zone after a long sweeper, allow the motor to idle under braking and blip the throttle only once to 4k, never bang the rev limiter when the pan is nearly empty. Downshifting through every gear is a waste of energy and puts your motor at risk. These methods worked well for both my brother and I with top times and no motor damage over 10 years of AX/DE/TT. If you run significantly stickier tires, you may need to apply further oiling protection. YMMV

Love this comment! My last instructor encouraged me to brake first then downshift. Much less RPM needed and easier to manage. Sat at the end of the first straight and was surprised by how many were downshifting as soon as they started braking.

Guys, 1) have you modified your gas pedal to be closer to the level of the brake to allow for better heal and toe operation? The way I down shift is using the synchro's more than necessary, not double clutching in neutal in as suggested due to the mismatch of thottle pedal and brake. I have a hard time getting the heal of my foot to depress the throttle to blip as my long leg is usually bracing on the console. 2) I do agree that downshifting on our cars is only necessary to help select the engines torque with mid corner thottle response to help rotation and throttle on out of the corners. Not so much as in trail braking, which could upset the traction circle of the rear tires. 3) Do most of you have Pedro's Technobrace or rear frame brace to prevent the rear wheels from changing their toe in trail braking or threshold braking? 4) Also how many of you have changed your motor mount? Yesterday, I spent most of the day waiting for my car at my install shop doing a Function First Orange motor mount insert install. Well, my OEM motor mount was shot, 44 k miles on a 07 CS. Jeff, the manager of Cantrell Motorsports asked if I routinely drive the crap out of my car as they work on all sorts of high end Porsches, mostly GT3 's, Turbo, older race cars etc, and his thought is more like 80 k to lose the motor mount. So, luckily, their parts supplier had a motor mount and delivered it in an hour. So, now I have a new OEM motor mount and a Function First Orange insert, which does add a little more NVH at idle. My purpose of the insert was to improve turn in, mid corner throttle response by locking down the engine and especially to reduce engine motion in the slalom features of autocross. 5) If the NVH from the engine insert does not bother me in the coming month, I am going to replace my transmission mounts as well with a Function First low density mounts to complete the engine/transmission modifications.

There's no point in double clutching if you heal toe and visa versa. The double clutch matches the shaft to gear speed, which reduces synchronizer wear. However, that process is relying on minimal engine RPM change in order to be effective. I double clutch on the street and I heal toe for both but I don't double clutch on the track..