GT4 SPEC PROBLEMS - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Just been to OPC to spec up my November build car to be told that full buckets and therefore Clubsport are no longer available - at least for the foreseeable future. Anyone been told similar or different?

Just spent this afternoon speccing mine and again same issue. I won't be buying without CS and Buckets. However the response from Porsche GB is major supplier issue and announcement in August!. How can you sell a track orientated car without buckets or harnesses! My concern is that they may be unavailable for a period then return when the supplier issues are resolved however as I understand it you can't delay "your car" so either have to cancel and lose your allocation or take normal seats!!! So from being dead excited on getting a car, to pissed off, any my car broke down on the way to Porsche just to add the cheery..

It's not the end of the world - a lot worse things happening out there. Me - I might cancel if can't have buckets. With 4-500 cars for UK it's not like I'm going to struggle to find one another day (albeit used) and without buckets they should be sensibly priced in the used market (they won't be sought after without the proper seats). Yes it would of been nice to of spec'd it how *I* want it, but tbh I quite fancy a Caterham.

unbelievable......

Mr Demon is not going to like his GT4 without buckets, imagine his face when they tell him. Lucky you kept the R David.

Perhaps Porsche have done this specifically to annoy Mr Demon - that would be funny...

This can't be for real?!

My spec is ok.

miskalachi said: This can't be for real?! Unfortunately, it is!

Phooey said: It's not the end of the world - a lot worse things happening out there. Me - I might cancel if can't have buckets. With 4-500 cars for UK it's not like I'm going to struggle to find one another day (albeit used) and without buckets they should be sensibly priced in the used market (they won't be sought after without the proper seats). Yes it would of been nice to of spec'd it how *I* want it, but tbh I quite fancy a Caterham. Know what you mean. My 'other' car and only car is a caterham R400 so will be using this for the rest of the summer.

PorscheGT4 said: My spec is ok. You not getting buckets ???

Guess what happened there is that they underestimated the demand for the clubsport package/bucket seats. Even the daft prices couldn't keep people from speccing them. Good for the people who are getting an "early" car with these options, bad for the ones who don't. You should still be able to spec the "old" GT2 folding carbon buckets without the clubsport package, no? There's nothing wrong with them and the rollcage only adds weight. Unless you do some *really* serious track work and need it for safety.

For me the clubsport package is just for show, i enquired about it and the cage isn't FIA compliant, you can have a FIA compliant one fitted but it's a special order option.

same buckets in the 991 RS ?

stewy49 said: Know what you mean. My 'other' car and only car is a caterham R400 so will be using this for the rest of the summer. But you were going to using that for the rest of the summer any way as you had a Nov build !

keep it lit said: same buckets in the 991 RS ? yes

PorscheGT4 said: keep it lit said: same buckets in the 991 RS ? yes this could be the problem, not enough supply for both builds at the same time so the lesser car gets kicked in the nuts!?

keep it lit said: PorscheGT4 said: keep it lit said: same buckets in the 991 RS ? yes this could be the problem, not enough supply for both builds at the same time so the lesser car gets kicked in the nuts!?

mad ferret said: For me the clubsport package is just for show, i enquired about it and the cage isn't FIA compliant, you can have a FIA compliant one fitted but it's a special order option. I did too and you have to have the back section fitted and the killswitch prep (both part of clubsport). The front section is the bit you have to spec to make it fully FIA compliant but the clubsport package gets you half way there and works out cheaper if you spec that first and ever want to make it a fully compliant car.

mad ferret said: For me the clubsport package is just for show, i enquired about it and the cage isn't FIA compliant, you can have a FIA compliant one fitted but it's a special order option. But it's the only way to attach harnesses. No way I would track a car without a cage and harnesses any more.

mad ferret said: For me the clubsport package is just for show, i enquired about it and the cage isn't FIA compliant, you can have a FIA compliant one fitted but it's a special order option. What FIA event would be trying to be compliant for?

If it is true clubsport I would expect to be fitted with FIA approved product so you can do clubmans or GT4 racing etc

jackwood said: But it's the only way to attach harnesses. No way I would track a car without a cage and harnesses any more. Good point. Makes me wonder if you can attach a harness to the 981 Spyder's roll bar. I know quite a lot of people in the US track the 987 Spyder with carbon buckets and a Schroth Profi GT3 6-point harness attached to the built in roll bar. Add HANS and that's about as safe as it gets for an open top car.

Just spoke to my OPC - they've spoken to vehicle planning any my car is still all go with the LWB and I've got an Oct build?!

PorscheGT4 said: But you were going to using that for the rest of the summer any way as you had a Nov build ! Yes, very true - and my old folks bus pass of course!

DS240 said: mad ferret said: For me the clubsport package is just for show, i enquired about it and the cage isn't FIA compliant, you can have a FIA compliant one fitted but it's a special order option. What FIA event would be trying to be compliant for? i would hazard a guess that being FIA compliant would give more confidence in the effectiveness of the cage.

J12KJR said: i would hazard a guess that being FIA compliant would give more confidence in the effectiveness of the cage. Not looked at FIA regs for a long time, but they can result in cages which are very heavy or cause serious access issues. So FIA compliance may well give some degree of confidence, but might not be the most sensible solution unless you are actually racing. (987) Caymans are raced in the States, but frankly the changes needed to make a genuinely competitive FIA GT4 car (as opposed to a road car with the same monica) are likely to be so great that the roll cage is down in the noise.

Seriously, who really is ever going to go club racing in a GT4? Who ever went club racing in a GT3? I race regularly and haven't seen one. If you were, you would need a proper cage in it, not a harness bar. You would also bin the seats and every other interior item possible. I've spec'd my GT4 without it. My 997 had CS package and to be honest I never used the harnesses once. I think a lot of people think it's 'cool' but actually it's not that useful unless you are doing regular track days in it. Edited by MB 1 on Tuesday 9th June 03:49

MB 1 said: Seriously, who really is ever going to go club racing in a GT4? Who ever went club racing in a GT3? I race regularly and haven't seen one. If you were, you would need a proper cage in it, not a harness bar. You would also bin the seats and every other interior item possible. I've spec'd my GT4 without it. My 997 had CS package and to be honest I never used the harnesses once. I think a lot of people think it's 'cool' but actually it's not that useful unless you are doing regular track days in it. Edited by MB 1 on Tuesday 9th June 03:49 Agree - the GT3/GT4 handle is about giving the cars Street cred and has little or nothing to do with their race potential. And while I'd certainly want a fixed 4/5/6 point harness if I was tracking a car regularly, I know what a pain they are on a DD. Although it's a bit left field, I personally think a fixed 3 point belt is a possible half way house if you want to be held in better, but don't want the pain of a 4/5/6 point one - or the inconvenience of buckets(particularly if you are short). Won't do your street cred any good - unlike buckets - but will work with any seat option and probably do a better job of holding you in the car than buckets will on their own. Can't see many (any?) going down that route though.

buckets with

I'm sure if you insisted on Buckets you'd get them but it would delay the build? FFS surely they can't sell GT4s with old man seats in...!? Its like buying a front wheel drive Range Rover

OK quick question- Are LWB different seats to the 918 Buckets? Post on FB mentioned from 1st of August LWB's are expected to be allowed on Spec orders

Scooty100 said: OK quick question- Are LWB different seats to the 918 Buckets? Post on FB mentioned from 1st of August LWB's are expected to be allowed on Spec orders Visually I believe they are very similar, but not quite identical. They are more 918 style, than actually 918 seats I believe - but not sure exactly how they differ other than I believe they are a different width.

Adam are you adam2s on rennlist ? Anyway back to topic,obviously I have asked for clarification which I am still waiting for from the dealer re the buckets seats. The May the 10th thing is actually old news ,so I'm not sure if that still applies ,as of at the moment according to my dealer what I was told stands.

PorscheGT4 said: buckets with I've never understood the latest be for these-I've got some and I think they're cack

AdamV12V said: Visually I believe they are very similar, but not quite identical. They are more 918 style, than actually 918 seats I believe - but not sure exactly how they differ other than I believe they are a different width. Tks Adam. Have to really see the visual differences I guess. Roll on launch nights

Beanoir said: I'm sure if you insisted on Buckets you'd get them but it would delay the build? FFS surely they can't sell GT4s with old man seats in...!? Its like buying a front wheel drive Range Rover True - but how many Chelsea Tractor owners need 4WD?

PorscheGT4 said: buckets with You had liposuction since we last met?

don't know if its the same as Spyder but buckets are available but not the 918 style

anonymous said: [redacted] I'm sure for a lot of people normal seats and a 3-point belt will feel fine on a circuit. However there are 2 main reasons for my preference for the harness/bucket combo for me: 1) I've seen my fair share of cars that have rolled on track. I don't like the idea of ragdolling around the cabin during an excursion like that myself. 2) It is much easier to work in the car when you are properly held into the seat. No need for constantly bracing yourself against fore/aft and lateral g-forces. It also gives you a far greater connection with the car. But obviously not everyone feels the same as me, which is not an issue. But I thought it was worth pointing out that there are some tangible benefits to speccing them for some people rather than just having them for posing in. And to clarify, I never use the harnesses on the road. They always get put away behind the seat/down the side of the seat/under the squab cushion when on the road. At which point I just use standard IR seatbelts. Jack

jackwood said: It is much easier to work in the car when you are properly held into the seat. But I tend to find doing my VAT return with harness on a right pitta, what ever turns you on I guess :-) I am with cmoose for once, seems pointless to have a cage esp a full one you can hit your head on if you are NOT wearing a helmet. just adds weight imo. a nice bucket connect you with the car and a seat belt hold you in no problem.

PorscheGT4 said: But I tend to find doing my VAT return with harness on a right pitta, what ever turns you on I guess :-) I am with cmoose for once, seems pointless to have a cage esp a full one you can hit your head on if you are NOT wearing a helmet. just adds weight imo. a nice bucket connect you with the car and a seat belt hold you in no problem. It is one of those things that you don't need right up until the moment that you need it... Then, you are very happy that you have it..... If you are planning to use the car for multiple track days then I cannot see why anyone would not want it. The front part would be a pita on a daily basis but I am not sure many would purchase this or fit it. The rear section is not that obtrusive on a GT4. For me it is similar to having a high quality crash helmet, painful to pay for but reassuring to own.

I am sure the gt4 has been crash tested though and it rolls over fine. !! most rolls kill the front part of the roof and as you say most won't fit the front part of the cage and you would NOT run on the road with the front part as hitting your head on it with no helmet would be fatal ! So not easy to say what's right and wrong really. If you run a cage, you may as well run HANS and full nomex, how far do you go for a track day ?

lsb said: It is one of those things that you don't need right up until the moment that you need it... Then, you are very happy that you have it..... If you are planning to use the car for multiple track days then I cannot see why anyone would not want it. Have to agree, there are generally more nasty things to hit on the road -BUT you are much more likely to hit them (or they you) on the track. How often do you see someone lose it/have an accident on the road? It's generally years between such incidents in my case. On the track it's pretty much every session. And while you may be perfectly safe, it's too easy to get caught up in someone else's accident. And personally I'm rarely doing 120+ (absolutely never officer) on the road but that's likely on most laps on a circuit.

bcr5784 said: Have to agree, there are generally more nasty things to hit on the road -BUT you are much more likely to hit them (or they you) on the track. How often do you see someone lose it/have an accident on the road? It's generally years between such incidents in my case. On the track it's pretty much every session. And while you may be perfectly safe, it's too easy to get caught up in someone else's accident. And personally I'm rarely doing 120+ (absolutely never officer) on the road but that's likely on most laps on a circuit. I tend to see loads of crashed cars on the side of roads ! may be 2 or more a week ! go for a Sunday AM ride and you can see 2 or 3 on the same bit of road !! but again normally front caved in, or if rolled front end of roof. Not sure a 1/2 cage is any thing but look at me factor. Think I would want the front section more than the rear !!! But it's a no go on the road as you would die if you hit your head on it !

On a track, even a half cage is very useful in an accident. Due to the high speed nature of circuit accidents, cars tend to dig in when they reach grass or litter and roll. Also, Wthout harnesses, it's difficult to be delicate with the steering wheel as you are basically bracing yourself against it and you dont need to be in a 911 to trail so you will need harnesses to hold you nice and tight agaist your seat. If you intend to track a car, then i'd definately go for a cage and harnesses. if you are going to fit a harness bar, you may as well fit a cage. If it's road only I agee, no need for either

Having barrel rolled at Spa in a race car with full cage, harnesses and HANS and still ended up in hospital I personally would not drive on track without at least a half cage and some proper harnesses - you would be surprised how far your body and head travel even if you are fully harnessed up (door handle cut my helmet open!)

If you drive on the road like you do on track you are either a knob, or a very slow track driver. But whatever. It's what you feel comfortable with. Personally, on the road buckets and 3pt belt is my preference. On track I'd rather have all the protection that can be afforded in a road-legal, drive-to-track-and-home-again car. IE rear cage with harnesses.

Diary of a GT4 owner on Planet 9... http://www.planet-9.com/981-cayman-gt4-chat/108377... Overall the GT4 has exceeded my expectations. They were very high due to the hype around the car and the excellent reviews. Still, exceeded! The only two things which stick out are the long gearing and the uncomfortable bucket seats. Neither really bother me, nor do they stop me from having fun with the car, they are simply two things which could be improved. The bucket seats are obviously a personal thing, but I have simply not found a comfortable enough driving position in them. I did get back pain initially, but it is gone now. As to the gearing, yes it is long and it would have been preferred with shorter ratios. On the other hand, if that had added much $$$ to the price then the GT4 would no longer be the bargain it is. Don't get me wrong, the gearing is not bad, it is just not perfect. The rest of the car is really perfect!

Phooey said: Diary of a GT4 owner on Planet 9... http://www.planet-9.com/981-cayman-gt4-chat/108377... Overall the GT4 has exceeded my expectations. They were very high due to the hype around the car and the excellent reviews. Still, exceeded! The only two things which stick out are the long gearing and the uncomfortable bucket seats. Neither really bother me, nor do they stop me from having fun with the car, they are simply two things which could be improved. The bucket seats are obviously a personal thing, but I have simply not found a comfortable enough driving position in them. I did get back pain initially, but it is gone now. As to the gearing, yes it is long and it would have been preferred with shorter ratios. On the other hand, if that had added much $$$ to the price then the GT4 would no longer be the bargain it is. Don't get me wrong, the gearing is not bad, it is just not perfect. The rest of the car is really perfect! Interesting Thread Phooey tks for sharing. Super confused with seats options now so I think have to try some out 1st. Colour wise im still torn white/black

Scooty100 said: Interesting Thread Phooey tks for sharing. Super confused with seats options now so I think have to try some out 1st. Colour wise im still torn white/black Inevitably a one size fits all approach isn't going to work for everyone. Even posh arm chair come in different sizes! I have to say the 18 way seats look good value (much cheaper than on other Caymans) and seem to cater for different sizes a lot better. Doubtless a bit heavy, but I think weight considerations are sometimes a bit overstated. As you say suck it and see is the best approach.

anonymous said: [redacted] Unlike GT3, GT4 cage costs £2640 or thereabouts. If it was included as part of the bucket seats option like GT3, then why not have it. But for more ££, the decision is not quite so simple.

bcr5784 said: Inevitably a one size fits all approach isn't going to work for everyone. Even posh arm chair come in different sizes! I have to say the 18 way seats look good value (much cheaper than on other Caymans) and seem to cater for different sizes a lot better. Doubtless a bit heavy, but I think weight considerations are sometimes a bit overstated. As you say suck it and see is the best approach. If all the reviews and comments I've read about the 918-style seats are true then yes, suddenly 18 way sports seats start to look like a very good option, even in a car like the GT4 unless you use it as a pure track toy only 3 hours at a time. I sat in the newer style GT4 buckets for an hour and didn't mind them. The "rake" was not ideal for my preference and if I were to order a GT4 I'd also try to get the folding seats but I have a hard time believing that the back ache problem is as bad as people say.

A quite detailed review from an owner ,taken from rennspeed. Bluelines GT4 - The Little b d (short review) ...ladies and gentlemen, let's start with a teaser ahead of the review. Enjoy! Smiley https://youtu.be/R-KaNvLhLJI Blueline’s GT4 Review Please find below some thoughts, views and random opinions about the GT4 after a few weeks ownership. Please note that I have not taken the car to a track yet, but I will update the review then… 1. The Engine The engine pulls nicely on lower RPM, it really opens up at 4500 RPM and continues to push hard up to the redline. There is a notable additional urge at 6000 RPM. There is plenty of low end torque, which I have been missing until now in the 98x models. The torque curve in the GT4 is also quite flat which gives it a nice wide power band. It feels like the normal 3.8l DFI engine, but with more urge than in the 997.2 and pretty much similar to the 991. The throttle response is direct. 1.1 Should Porsche have added the X51 kit and 430hp? No. The GT4 with 385hp does not lack in power. It is quick as is. Very quick, actually. …but? Well, please note that even if the 991 GT3 has 90hp more, the GT4 has only 20Nm less in maximum torque and that with a much flatter curve. Up to 5200 RPM the GT4 engine delivers more torque than the GT3 engine, in a car which weights 100 kg less. After 5200 RPM the curves are in line, with the GT4 being 20 Nm below. Bluelines Points: 5/5 2. The Exhaust What a sound! Maybe the single biggest surprise. It is simply fantastic! On the low end it has an almost air-cooled note to it. Deep, growling and with a pronounced *flap, flap* character. On the mid and high end it turns more raspy and high pitched similar to the GT3. Overall it is an aggressive sound and it is very different to the 991 PSE. It does sound a lot more race car than sports car. It is is also much louder and I am almost surprised it got approval. If you switch the sports exhaust off the car is quiet and neighbourhood friendly. Bluelines Points: 5/5 3. The Gearbox The gear lever has a short throw with a delightfully direct and precise feel. It feels shorter than the 987/997 short-shifts. The character is mechanical, but without being clunky. You can quickly flick through the gears with a small hand movement and it is a true pleasure doing so. You can feel the lighter flywheel which makes the car very responsive in lower gears. I did not notice any issues with downshifting to, for example, 1st gear before the temperature was up. All previous cars with short-shift had this issue, but it seems to be gone. I remember that I sometimes even had to double clutch to get 1st gear in. 3.1 The Long Gears Maybe the most discussed and criticised point about the car. So, are the gears long? Yes. Does it bother me? No. Does it prevent me from having fun? Absolutely not. The car pulls hard in 2nd gear from 50km/h all the way up to 130km/h. It is a, relatively speaking, light car with, relatively speaking, plenty of low end torque. I can understand why Porsche spent money on other things than changing the gearbox, the torque from the 3.8l engine combined with the low weight works very well. 3.2 The Rev-Match Feature I must admit I was highly sceptical about this gizmo. After about 5 minutes in the car my scepticism had turned into a big grin. It works very well and unless you know how to dance like Walter Röhrl it is a true help for very fast downshifts. The sound it makes on these downshifts is insane! True race car like, with occasional loud bangs. PDK downshift are boring in comparison. This might sounds strange, but it feels like the rev-match feature closes the gap between a traditional manual and PDK, in a positive sense. 3.3 “I am not getting a GT4 because it does not have PDK!” Well, if you were one of those people. Too bad. You have missed out… Being someone who is fully convinced about PDK and who enjoys driving with PDK on the road and on the track, I was curious to see how I reacted to a manual gearbox. Well, I was in for a surprise. A positive one, that is. While the entire business of moving around a lever in an ancient arcane pattern while having to press a redundant pedal in the floor is starting to become silly, the pleasure of doing so far outweighs the silliness. The gearbox in the GT4 has been very well engineered, to provide the driver with the maximum feel, while being as efficient and modern as possible. In my opinion the manual gearbox fits the car perfectly and I think PDK would rob some of that feeling. Bluelines Points: 4.5/5 (no 5 due to the long gearing) 4. The Suspension The suspension is hard, but without being harsh. Even on bad surfaces the car is not bone rattling hard in Normal mode. I would not say it is comfortable though. There is very little roll in the body. Even coming fast and hard into a turn, the car stays amazingly flat. Bluelines Points: 5/5 5. The Brakes The steel brakes offer a stupendous amount of stopping power and there is a good feel to the pedal. Not much more to say, simply great brakes. 5.1 What about PCCB? Get them if you want to show-off your yellow brake callipers or hope that they leave less brake dust. Bluelines Points: 5/5 6. The Steering The steering is pretty light, with a precise and direct feel. There is lots of feedback in the steering wheel and you can feel the surface and the wheels very well. The 918 steering wheel, or Macan steering wheel if you want, is great too. The turn in is very quick. Steer in, hold on, breathe out… Bluelines Points: 5/5 7. The Exterior The exterior design is drop dead gorgeous in my opinion. The GT4 is cleaner and minimalistic compared to the GT3, having less air inlets/outlets, vanes, etc. and a more flowing design. The GT4 front facia is a master piece and maybe the most beautiful part of the car. The three air intakes have a clean design and great proportion. It makes the car look very aggressive and you instantly realise that this is not a “normal” Cayman. The wing also suits the car very very well. It is more subdued than on the GT3, but in my opinion, suits the 981 shape better than the 991. The ground clearance for the front spoiler lip is 11 cm. 8. The Interior Standard Porsche Cayman or 991 quality. I did not spec the leather package and I don’t miss it at all in this car. 8.1 Full Bucket versus Sport Seats Ok, another much discussed topic… The full bucket seats offer great side support and have a race car like feel to them. The seat can be moved forward/backward with a manual lever under the seat. It can also be moved up/down with a button on the side. Please note that the seat is fixed in the front and the up/down movement tilts the seat forwards/backwards. Hence there is quite a lot of freedom to move the seat’s position, height and tilt, at least compared to previous bucket seats. Except for the front edge, which is fixed in height. There is not much padding in the seat and it does get hard after a short time of driving. I have had trouble finding a suitable seating position and I did end up with a sore back after a few days. My suspicion is that the seat base is a tad too long for me and the front is a bit too high. This means I cannot move all the way back to the rear seat wall and the back in slightly curved. I have experimented a lot with the seat configuration, but not found a solution. I think bringing a small pillow behind the lower back should do the trick. It is also bit troublesome to get in to the car with the bucket seats, especially if you cannot open the door more than the first step. The side wall of the bucket seat is high and the steering wheel close. Not a car you wiggle into a narrow parking spot at the shopping center. At least not if you plan to get out and in. The Sport Seats on the other hand are far more comfortable! If you plan to use the car more on the road and less on the track, then think twice before ordering the full buckets. The Sport Seats work on a track too, you just cannot fix a harness. Please don’t start arguing weight difference. This matters little if your back is sore. 9. The Handling Lets add all the features together and look at the full package with respect to the handling. On the various car forums people tend to single out and exaggerate specific features, usually focusing on some random number which is not sufficiently high or low. In real life, things work differently… The full package feels very complete and cohesive. Of course the GT4 could have had more power or different gearing, but it would not have changed the full package. Porsche has put together a great car with the GT4 and I am most pleased that they focused more on driver involvement than raw numbers. You feel this instantly when driving the car. The connection between driver and car is excellent! The handling and feel of the car is simply awesome. It is direct, precise and mechanical. Almost a bit old school GT3 or air cooled. You can throw it around like a go-cart and it never complains or becomes nervous. The turn in must be one of the quickest in any Porsche, or other brand for that matter. Just fixate and steer and the car shoots off like nothing I have ever experienced before. 9.1 Is it as Fun as Everyone Claims? Yes! No further comment needed. 9.2 Is it a Daily Driver? In my view, no. The bucket seats, the cup tires and the low front lip speak against. Of course one could spec the GT4 with Sport Seats and change the tires, but I would think a Cayman GTS does the daily driver job a lot better. The GT4 is a special car for special driving. 9.3 What About the 7:40 Ring Time? I have no longer any doubt this car laps the Nürburgring in 7:40 as claimed by Porsche. 10. 981 GT4 Versus 991 C4S Firstly, these are two completely different cars and comparing them does not make much sense, but for completeness, here we go… 10.1 The Engine The 385hp engine in the GT4 feels pretty much exactly as powerful as the 400hp engine in the C4S. It does feel more powerful than the 385hp engine in the 997.2. 10.2 The Exhaust The exhaust notes for the cars are very different. The GT4 has a lot more aggressive sound and is far louder then the 991. The pops on the overrun are not as prominent in the GT4, but you get the occasional (very) loud bangs. The GT4 is more raspy and high-pitched than the 991. You can hear that one exhaust was more engineered for sound while the other more for performance 10.3 The Gearbox Manual in the GT4 versus PDK in the C4S. Well, I think the type of gearbox fits each car perfectly. I would not want the GT4 with PDK, nor would I want the C4S with manual. 10.4 Suspension The GT4 in Normal mode feels like the C4S with -20mm S-PASM in Sport mode, although the C4S has more roll in the body. 10.5 The Brakes The GT4 has more bite in the pedal. The brakes squeak more too. Other than that, both cars have excellent stopping power. 10.6 The Steering The GT4 offers far a more direct and precise steering feel and feedback than the 991. The GT4 is a tad lighter than the 991, but it does feel like the steering wheel is directly connected to the wheels. You can feel every little bump in road surface and know exactly where the wheels point. The 991 in comparison is more muted and filtered in the steering feel. 10.7 The Exterior I guess a matter of taste. I love the classic 911 shape without a wing. I have also fallen in love with the wing on the GT4 and much prefer this addition to the wing-less models. The wing fits the shape excellent and it is not overdone. 10.8 The Interior Same same, depending on your spec of course. 10.9 The Performance The straight-line performance feels pretty much exactly the same. Both cars pull with similar power and I cannot point at one feeling faster within the gears. Between the gears, the C4S feels quicker due to the violent shifting in Sport Plus mode. 10.10 The Handling Both cars handle very well. The GT4 feels lighter and nimbler. It provides more feedback to the driver and has a better balance. In the GT4 you feel connected to all parts of the car, in the C4S it feels like the connection is fixed to a rubber bushing. It is there, but muted and less prominent. The rear-end nervousness of the 911 is completely absent in the GT4 and replaced by… hm, well, nothing. Simply great balance. 10.11 The Comfort A clear win for the C4S. It is far more comfortable and my definite choice for a longer distance travel. The GT4 does not stand a chance here. 10.12 The Choice If you for some reason are stuck choosing between a C4S and a GT4… get the C4S. You would not be making this choice otherwise. 11. Verdict I am very happy with the GT4! The car is everything I had hoped for and more. Overall 5/5 points! -- 2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono 2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | PTV | PSE | S-PASM (-20mm) | SportDesign Front 2010 Audi S5 Cabrio | Ibis White permalink Display threaded Next Threads

franki68 said: A quite detailed review from an owner ,taken from rennspeed. Bluelines GT4 - The Little b d (short review) ...ladies and gentlemen, let's start with a teaser ahead of the review. Enjoy! Smiley https://youtu.be/R-KaNvLhLJI Blueline’s GT4 Review Please find below some thoughts, views and random opinions about the GT4 after a few weeks ownership. Please note that I have not taken the car to a track yet, but I will update the review then… 1. The Engine The engine pulls nicely on lower RPM, it really opens up at 4500 RPM and continues to push hard up to the redline. There is a notable additional urge at 6000 RPM. There is plenty of low end torque, which I have been missing until now in the 98x models. The torque curve in the GT4 is also quite flat which gives it a nice wide power band. It feels like the normal 3.8l DFI engine, but with more urge than in the 997.2 and pretty much similar to the 991. The throttle response is direct. 1.1 Should Porsche have added the X51 kit and 430hp? No. The GT4 with 385hp does not lack in power. It is quick as is. Very quick, actually. …but? Well, please note that even if the 991 GT3 has 90hp more, the GT4 has only 20Nm less in maximum torque and that with a much flatter curve. Up to 5200 RPM the GT4 engine delivers more torque than the GT3 engine, in a car which weights 100 kg less. After 5200 RPM the curves are in line, with the GT4 being 20 Nm below. Bluelines Points: 5/5 2. The Exhaust What a sound! Maybe the single biggest surprise. It is simply fantastic! On the low end it has an almost air-cooled note to it. Deep, growling and with a pronounced *flap, flap* character. On the mid and high end it turns more raspy and high pitched similar to the GT3. Overall it is an aggressive sound and it is very different to the 991 PSE. It does sound a lot more race car than sports car. It is is also much louder and I am almost surprised it got approval. If you switch the sports exhaust off the car is quiet and neighbourhood friendly. Bluelines Points: 5/5 3. The Gearbox The gear lever has a short throw with a delightfully direct and precise feel. It feels shorter than the 987/997 short-shifts. The character is mechanical, but without being clunky. You can quickly flick through the gears with a small hand movement and it is a true pleasure doing so. You can feel the lighter flywheel which makes the car very responsive in lower gears. I did not notice any issues with downshifting to, for example, 1st gear before the temperature was up. All previous cars with short-shift had this issue, but it seems to be gone. I remember that I sometimes even had to double clutch to get 1st gear in. 3.1 The Long Gears Maybe the most discussed and criticised point about the car. So, are the gears long? Yes. Does it bother me? No. Does it prevent me from having fun? Absolutely not. The car pulls hard in 2nd gear from 50km/h all the way up to 130km/h. It is a, relatively speaking, light car with, relatively speaking, plenty of low end torque. I can understand why Porsche spent money on other things than changing the gearbox, the torque from the 3.8l engine combined with the low weight works very well. 3.2 The Rev-Match Feature I must admit I was highly sceptical about this gizmo. After about 5 minutes in the car my scepticism had turned into a big grin. It works very well and unless you know how to dance like Walter Röhrl it is a true help for very fast downshifts. The sound it makes on these downshifts is insane! True race car like, with occasional loud bangs. PDK downshift are boring in comparison. This might sounds strange, but it feels like the rev-match feature closes the gap between a traditional manual and PDK, in a positive sense. 3.3 “I am not getting a GT4 because it does not have PDK!” Well, if you were one of those people. Too bad. You have missed out… Being someone who is fully convinced about PDK and who enjoys driving with PDK on the road and on the track, I was curious to see how I reacted to a manual gearbox. Well, I was in for a surprise. A positive one, that is. While the entire business of moving around a lever in an ancient arcane pattern while having to press a redundant pedal in the floor is starting to become silly, the pleasure of doing so far outweighs the silliness. The gearbox in the GT4 has been very well engineered, to provide the driver with the maximum feel, while being as efficient and modern as possible. In my opinion the manual gearbox fits the car perfectly and I think PDK would rob some of that feeling. Bluelines Points: 4.5/5 (no 5 due to the long gearing) 4. The Suspension The suspension is hard, but without being harsh. Even on bad surfaces the car is not bone rattling hard in Normal mode. I would not say it is comfortable though. There is very little roll in the body. Even coming fast and hard into a turn, the car stays amazingly flat. Bluelines Points: 5/5 5. The Brakes The steel brakes offer a stupendous amount of stopping power and there is a good feel to the pedal. Not much more to say, simply great brakes. 5.1 What about PCCB? Get them if you want to show-off your yellow brake callipers or hope that they leave less brake dust. Bluelines Points: 5/5 6. The Steering The steering is pretty light, with a precise and direct feel. There is lots of feedback in the steering wheel and you can feel the surface and the wheels very well. The 918 steering wheel, or Macan steering wheel if you want, is great too. The turn in is very quick. Steer in, hold on, breathe out… Bluelines Points: 5/5 7. The Exterior The exterior design is drop dead gorgeous in my opinion. The GT4 is cleaner and minimalistic compared to the GT3, having less air inlets/outlets, vanes, etc. and a more flowing design. The GT4 front facia is a master piece and maybe the most beautiful part of the car. The three air intakes have a clean design and great proportion. It makes the car look very aggressive and you instantly realise that this is not a “normal” Cayman. The wing also suits the car very very well. It is more subdued than on the GT3, but in my opinion, suits the 981 shape better than the 991. The ground clearance for the front spoiler lip is 11 cm. 8. The Interior Standard Porsche Cayman or 991 quality. I did not spec the leather package and I don’t miss it at all in this car. 8.1 Full Bucket versus Sport Seats Ok, another much discussed topic… The full bucket seats offer great side support and have a race car like feel to them. The seat can be moved forward/backward with a manual lever under the seat. It can also be moved up/down with a button on the side. Please note that the seat is fixed in the front and the up/down movement tilts the seat forwards/backwards. Hence there is quite a lot of freedom to move the seat’s position, height and tilt, at least compared to previous bucket seats. Except for the front edge, which is fixed in height. There is not much padding in the seat and it does get hard after a short time of driving. I have had trouble finding a suitable seating position and I did end up with a sore back after a few days. My suspicion is that the seat base is a tad too long for me and the front is a bit too high. This means I cannot move all the way back to the rear seat wall and the back in slightly curved. I have experimented a lot with the seat configuration, but not found a solution. I think bringing a small pillow behind the lower back should do the trick. It is also bit troublesome to get in to the car with the bucket seats, especially if you cannot open the door more than the first step. The side wall of the bucket seat is high and the steering wheel close. Not a car you wiggle into a narrow parking spot at the shopping center. At least not if you plan to get out and in. The Sport Seats on the other hand are far more comfortable! If you plan to use the car more on the road and less on the track, then think twice before ordering the full buckets. The Sport Seats work on a track too, you just cannot fix a harness. Please don’t start arguing weight difference. This matters little if your back is sore. 9. The Handling Lets add all the features together and look at the full package with respect to the handling. On the various car forums people tend to single out and exaggerate specific features, usually focusing on some random number which is not sufficiently high or low. In real life, things work differently… The full package feels very complete and cohesive. Of course the GT4 could have had more power or different gearing, but it would not have changed the full package. Porsche has put together a great car with the GT4 and I am most pleased that they focused more on driver involvement than raw numbers. You feel this instantly when driving the car. The connection between driver and car is excellent! The handling and feel of the car is simply awesome. It is direct, precise and mechanical. Almost a bit old school GT3 or air cooled. You can throw it around like a go-cart and it never complains or becomes nervous. The turn in must be one of the quickest in any Porsche, or other brand for that matter. Just fixate and steer and the car shoots off like nothing I have ever experienced before. 9.1 Is it as Fun as Everyone Claims? Yes! No further comment needed. 9.2 Is it a Daily Driver? In my view, no. The bucket seats, the cup tires and the low front lip speak against. Of course one could spec the GT4 with Sport Seats and change the tires, but I would think a Cayman GTS does the daily driver job a lot better. The GT4 is a special car for special driving. 9.3 What About the 7:40 Ring Time? I have no longer any doubt this car laps the Nürburgring in 7:40 as claimed by Porsche. 10. 981 GT4 Versus 991 C4S Firstly, these are two completely different cars and comparing them does not make much sense, but for completeness, here we go… 10.1 The Engine The 385hp engine in the GT4 feels pretty much exactly as powerful as the 400hp engine in the C4S. It does feel more powerful than the 385hp engine in the 997.2. 10.2 The Exhaust The exhaust notes for the cars are very different. The GT4 has a lot more aggressive sound and is far louder then the 991. The pops on the overrun are not as prominent in the GT4, but you get the occasional (very) loud bangs. The GT4 is more raspy and high-pitched than the 991. You can hear that one exhaust was more engineered for sound while the other more for performance 10.3 The Gearbox Manual in the GT4 versus PDK in the C4S. Well, I think the type of gearbox fits each car perfectly. I would not want the GT4 with PDK, nor would I want the C4S with manual. 10.4 Suspension The GT4 in Normal mode feels like the C4S with -20mm S-PASM in Sport mode, although the C4S has more roll in the body. 10.5 The Brakes The GT4 has more bite in the pedal. The brakes squeak more too. Other than that, both cars have excellent stopping power. 10.6 The Steering The GT4 offers far a more direct and precise steering feel and feedback than the 991. The GT4 is a tad lighter than the 991, but it does feel like the steering wheel is directly connected to the wheels. You can feel every little bump in road surface and know exactly where the wheels point. The 991 in comparison is more muted and filtered in the steering feel. 10.7 The Exterior I guess a matter of taste. I love the classic 911 shape without a wing. I have also fallen in love with the wing on the GT4 and much prefer this addition to the wing-less models. The wing fits the shape excellent and it is not overdone. 10.8 The Interior Same same, depending on your spec of course. 10.9 The Performance The straight-line performance feels pretty much exactly the same. Both cars pull with similar power and I cannot point at one feeling faster within the gears. Between the gears, the C4S feels quicker due to the violent shifting in Sport Plus mode. 10.10 The Handling Both cars handle very well. The GT4 feels lighter and nimbler. It provides more feedback to the driver and has a better balance. In the GT4 you feel connected to all parts of the car, in the C4S it feels like the connection is fixed to a rubber bushing. It is there, but muted and less prominent. The rear-end nervousness of the 911 is completely absent in the GT4 and replaced by… hm, well, nothing. Simply great balance. 10.11 The Comfort A clear win for the C4S. It is far more comfortable and my definite choice for a longer distance travel. The GT4 does not stand a chance here. 10.12 The Choice If you for some reason are stuck choosing between a C4S and a GT4… get the C4S. You would not be making this choice otherwise. 11. Verdict I am very happy with the GT4! The car is everything I had hoped for and more. Overall 5/5 points! -- 2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono 2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | PTV | PSE | S-PASM (-20mm) | SportDesign Front 2010 Audi S5 Cabrio | Ibis White permalink Display threaded Next Threads Great write up tks for sharing

Having been told that P03 seats will shortly be available to spec on the UK cars I get the feeling this will be without the CS package..... I just wish Porsche could make the proper announcement as to what is going to happen. Or say they'll retro the correct seats if ordered?

LaurasOtherHalf said: PorscheGT4 said: buckets with I've never understood the latest be for these-I've got some and I think they're cack I've had them since i had a CSL and think they're great! Do the job on track and keep posture on the road; remember driving to Wales in the CSL and felt fresh as a daisy!

That owner review is a complete joke. What a surprise, he is keen to justify his purchase with a glowing review! Ye, funnily enough he didn't spec PCCBs as that option is for 'show offs' Bell end.

anonymous said: [redacted]

anonymous said: [redacted] To be fair He's not alone. I keep hearing/reading - "long gear ratios", "tall gearing" etc. So out of interest - what's the problem? My old GT3 had 'long' gears and it was never a problem

Phooey said: Of course, untill I've driven it i'll reserve judgment, but considering Porsche marketed and built (to a budget remember!) the GT4 at 'track' performance more over road, i still fail to see where Porsche got the GT4 gearing wrong. Now if it was a road car... I am a bit lost now, as you think it's a track car yet have never tracked a car as far as I know ! Why are you buying a car you think has been made as a track car ? serious question ;-)

Please contact me for my required specification when you all try the gearing for the first time and decide to sell; no point me buying your chosen spec

Scooty100 said: http://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/879467-top-gear-spe... No complaints about gearing here. Looks a favourite for COTY Sorry did anyone actually read the above article ? Demon?

Scooty100 said: Sorry did anyone actually read the above article ? Demon? Why take any interest in reading the opinions of people that have actually driven the car when you can read the endless opinions from people who have never even seen one ?

lsb said: Why take any interest in reading the opinions of people that have actually driven the car when you can read the endless opinions from people who have never even seen one ? There is sometimes an element of that . Contender for COTY I think . Maybe demon was right all along

PorscheGT4 said: Phooey said: Of course, untill I've driven it i'll reserve judgment, but considering Porsche marketed and built (to a budget remember!) the GT4 at 'track' performance more over road, i still fail to see where Porsche got the GT4 gearing wrong. Now if it was a road car... I am a bit lost now, as you think it's a track car yet have never tracked a car as far as I know ! Why are you buying a car you think has been made as a track car ? serious question ;-) A one-legged blind man would be daft not to buy a GT4 given the chance David

PorscheGT4 said: but the Gt3 is unusable as a road car imo :-) ok you can use it but the fun times are 10% of the time you drive it and for me it had to go. A bad workman....

Scooty100 said: Sorry did anyone actually read the above article ? Demon? yep was good, shame about the Elise cup 220 I really fancy one of those.

Phooey said: A bad workman.... blinkered owners.

PorscheGT4 said: but the Gt3 is unusable as a road car imo :-) ok you can use it but the fun times are 10% of the time you drive it and for me it had to go. What makes you think the GT4 will be different. The front splitter is about the same height as a 996 GT3, the suspension is meant to be fairly firm and the gearing is 'long' (apparently) Also, with the RS out at the same time, COTY will go to that and the GT4 will be placed high but not no.1

lemmingjames said: What makes you think the GT4 will be different. The front splitter is about the same height as a 996 GT3, the suspension is meant to be fairly firm and the gearing is 'long' (apparently) Also, with the RS out at the same time, COTY will go to that and the GT4 will be placed high but not no.1 I did not have 996gt3 splitter issues. the gearing is shorter and the peak torque 2k revs lower in the range on a GT4. I might even raise the GT4 10mm and I'll def put the front arb on full soft and up the down force on it.

PorscheGT4 said: I did not have 996gt3 splitter issues. the gearing is shorter and the peak torque 2k revs lower in the range on a GT4. I might even raise the GT4 10mm and I'll def put the front arb on full soft and up the down force on it. No but you said that the GT3 made an unsuitable road car, im just saying that the GT4 wont be that much different - 115mm road to lip height = not very suitable. Stiff suspension = not suitable even if you do soften it (why buy a GT if thats the case?) Why up the down force for primarily a road car and for speeds that will only be obtainable on track. The above is all along the lines of what you have said about previous GT3's... Anyone, enough SunnyD bainting, cant you just install aftermarket buckets if your that desperate for a car and spec the 18 way adjustables?

PorscheGT4 said: lemmingjames said: What makes you think the GT4 will be different. The front splitter is about the same height as a 996 GT3, the suspension is meant to be fairly firm and the gearing is 'long' (apparently) Also, with the RS out at the same time, COTY will go to that and the GT4 will be placed high but not no.1 I did not have 996gt3 splitter issues. the gearing is shorter and the peak torque 2k revs lower in the range on a GT4. I might even raise the GT4 10mm and I'll def put the front arb on full soft and up the down force on it. Asked my dealer about adjusting ride height and despite what might have been indicated at launch the latest info they had was the height is factory set and dealers are not to adjust from factory settings. If done outside of the network then question of warranty as classed as modification

lemmingjames said: No but you said that the GT3 made an unsuitable road car, im just saying that the GT4 wont be that much different - 115mm road to lip height = not very suitable. Stiff suspension = not suitable even if you do soften it (why buy a GT if thats the case?) Why up the down force for primarily a road car and for speeds that will only be obtainable on track. The above is all along the lines of what you have said about previous GT3's... you have to understand why I did not like my GT3, you don't seem to get why (eve nthough I have stated why 30+ times ). has nothing to do with the SUS or splitter height. I don't plan to soften the GT4 sus, and will only raise it 10mm if it's an issue with the bumps where I live. Upping the down force seems a no brainer over losing it's top speed esp for road use as I don't plan to do 184mph on the road !

PorscheGT4 said: you have to understand why I did not like my GT3, you don't seem to get why (eve nthough I have stated why 30+ times ). has nothing to do with the SUS or splitter height. I don't plan to soften the GT4 sus, and will only raise it 10mm if it's an issue with the bumps where I live. Upping the down force seems a no brainer over losing it's top speed esp for road use as I don't plan to do 184mph on the road ! I am intrigued to know how you are going to increase the downforce whilst at the same time increasing the ride height ? Surely you jest ?

lsb said: PorscheGT4 said: you have to understand why I did not like my GT3, you don't seem to get why (eve nthough I have stated why 30+ times ). has nothing to do with the SUS or splitter height. I don't plan to soften the GT4 sus, and will only raise it 10mm if it's an issue with the bumps where I live. Upping the down force seems a no brainer over losing it's top speed esp for road use as I don't plan to do 184mph on the road ! I am intrigued to know how you are going to increase the downforce whilst at the same time increasing the ride height ? Surely you jest ? . Might make F1 more interesting !

cc3 said: . Might make F1 more interesting ! Good point !

lsb said: I am intrigued to know how you are going to increase the downforce whilst at the same time increasing the ride height ? Surely you jest ? ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here !

PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here ! I had hoped that you were joking, but clearly you were not. Good luck with that.

I have to say these forums are not helping the build up to getting this car....for me anyway. It is a bit like a car crash.... Horrific, but you cannot help but look incase you miss something! I look forward to the car arriving so I can spend more time driving and enjoying it rather than reading this! The long gearing issue that seems to be a big talking point.... Every Porsche (modern at least) I have driven has had long gearing, clearly it is their philosophy and they're sticking to it! It was more noticable on my previous 981 Cayman S, but the adddional torque/capacity should remedy this.... Have had the buckets on my spec from the start and am sticking with them however long it takes. I have no reason to be overly concerned after talking to a chap from Reading, despite the various reports/information you see on here. Even now the folding bucket seat is now available (£300 more than the 918 seats) I won't be swayed. A shame everyone isn't a bit more positive to be honest. If the gearing is too long, or the seats too uncomfortable, or it doesn't have enough downforce (!!) then buy something else!! I for one am very grateful I'm in a position and been offered to buy a car that a great number of people would love to. We are the chosen few people! :-) Anyway rant over...

Custard Beast said: I have to say these forums are not helping the build up to getting this car....for me anyway. It is a bit like a car crash.... Horrific, but you cannot help but look incase you miss something! I look forward to the car arriving so I can spend more time driving and enjoying it rather than reading this! The long gearing issue that seems to be a big talking point.... Every Porsche (modern at least) I have driven has had long gearing, clearly it is their philosophy and they're sticking to it! It was more noticable on my previous 981 Cayman S, but the adddional torque/capacity should remedy this.... Have had the buckets on my spec from the start and am sticking with them however long it takes. I have no reason to be overly concerned after talking to a chap from Reading, despite the various reports/information you see on here. Even now the folding bucket seat is now available (£300 more than the 918 seats) I won't be swayed. A shame everyone isn't a bit more positive to be honest. If the gearing is too long, or the seats too uncomfortable, or it doesn't have enough downforce (!!) then buy something else!! I for one am very grateful I'm in a position and been offered to buy a car that a great number of people would love to. We are the chosen few people! :-) Anyway rant over... All fair comment

Custard Beast said: I have to say these forums are not helping the build up to getting this car....for me anyway. It is a bit like a car crash.... Horrific, but you cannot help but look incase you miss something! I look forward to the car arriving so I can spend more time driving and enjoying it rather than reading this! The long gearing issue that seems to be a big talking point.... Every Porsche (modern at least) I have driven has had long gearing, clearly it is their philosophy and they're sticking to it! It was more noticable on my previous 981 Cayman S, but the adddional torque/capacity should remedy this.... Have had the buckets on my spec from the start and am sticking with them however long it takes. I have no reason to be overly concerned after talking to a chap from Reading, despite the various reports/information you see on here. Even now the folding bucket seat is now available (£300 more than the 918 seats) I won't be swayed. A shame everyone isn't a bit more positive to be honest. If the gearing is too long, or the seats too uncomfortable, or it doesn't have enough downforce (!!) then buy something else!! I for one am very grateful I'm in a position and been offered to buy a car that a great number of people would love to. We are the chosen few people! :-) Anyway rant over... agree, but come on this is Pistonheads after all, moaning endlessly like spoilt children, matters.

PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here !

Phooey said: PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here ! Hahahahahaha!

lsb said: I had hoped that you were joking, but clearly you were not. Good luck with that. thanks you clearly cannot read or understand my post :-)

I'm no expert but is anyone going to be able to notice 100kg of downforce in any situation that we may or may not put the car through at any track or road? Assume this figure is at top speed? Understand 981's were prone to a bit of front lift at high speed, and this will eradicate that, but extra grip.....??!! I understand 100kg is better than 0kg but struggle to believe us mere mortals will be able to notice much...

Custard Beast said: I'm no expert but is anyone going to be able to notice 100kg of downforce in any situation that we may or may not put the car through at any track or road? Assume this figure is at top speed? Understand 981's were prone to a bit of front lift at high speed, and this will eradicate that, but extra grip.....??!! I understand 100kg is better than 0kg but struggle to believe us mere mortals will be able to notice much... as most cars have lift, it has to be good imo, never driven a car with real down force so , no idea. be nice if it did help to fight understeer on sweepers on track. AT Spa last year at Pouhon I unsteered right off the track and s t myself lol but a lot of cars do understeer there,

It won't be quite enough downforce to allow you to drive through tunnels upside down. I've just done some fag packet maths, but I think I'm right in saying that.

PorscheGT4 said: as most cars have lift, it has to be good imo, never driven a car with real down force so , no idea. be nice if it did help to fight understeer on sweepers on track. AT Spa last year at Pouhon I unsteered right off the track and s t myself lol but a lot of cars do understeer there, Yes but my point (hypothetical) is that if you could go through Pouhon at 180mph you might notice something... At 60/70/80/90/whatever mph there is no difference when the maximum on offer is 100kg. I don't know how downforce builds in relation to speed, but I should think is it minimal at the speeds a GT4 will achieve.... Anyway, I'm getting drawn into it now!

Unless you are Lewis Hamilton it's pub talk

PorscheGT4 said: as most cars have lift, it has to be good imo, never driven a car with real down force so , no idea. be nice if it did help to fight understeer on sweepers on track. AT Spa last year at Pouhon I unsteered right off the track and s t myself lol but a lot of cars do understeer there, If you lift the car you will reduce downforce at the front significantly, but make little difference at the back. Increasing the back wing angle of attack will increase rear grip and therefore the net effect will be to make (aerodynamic) understeer significantly WORSE. Sure you are increasing mechanical grip at the front by softening the front arb, but I'm not sure the net effect will be a reduction in understeer on fast sweepers, more likely the reverse.

Phooey said: Unless you are Lewis Hamilton it's pub talk Agree and I am sure everyone will be very impressed !

PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here ! Ha ha ha ha.....seriously made me laugh......you live in a dream world, mate!!

Must be my bad English then as what I have written makes perfect sense to me.

The new folding bucket seats (P03) will only be available to customers with cars that will go to build before August and want bucket seats. They will be charged at £2,226. From August onward the original bucket seats (launch seats) will be available and cars specified with bucket seats will be built with the original bucket seats from August onward. They will be charged at £1,907. At that point there will be no delays for waiting for bucket seats. Was sent the above y'day. Apologies if its a repost but thought worth sharing if not

Scooty100 said: The new folding bucket seats (P03) will only be available to customers with cars that will go to build before August and want bucket seats. They will be charged at £2,226. From August onward the original bucket seats (launch seats) will be available and cars specified with bucket seats will be built with the original bucket seats from August onward. They will be charged at £1,907. At that point there will be no delays for waiting for bucket seats. Was sent the above y'day. Apologies if its a repost but thought worth sharing if not surprising that newer seats are cheaper

Scooty100 said: The new folding bucket seats (P03) will only be available to customers with cars that will go to build before August and want bucket seats. They will be charged at £2,226. From August onward the original bucket seats (launch seats) will be available and cars specified with bucket seats will be built with the original bucket seats from August onward. They will be charged at £1,907. At that point there will be no delays for waiting for bucket seats. Was sent the above y'day. Apologies if its a repost but thought worth sharing if not However, the Clubsport Package is not available with the new P03 seats, which will still cause a lot of people problems.

PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here ! So you're going to take weight off the front axle by lifting it 10mm, then increase weight on the rear axle by increasing wing angle...? You're mental...!

IREvans said: PorscheGT4 said: ok you up the ride height 10mm, and that will give you a given number for down force. then you take out the front flaps and increase the rear wing tilt, that will give you more down force than the car had before, height for height !! no rocket science going on here ! So you're going to take weight off the front axle by lifting it 10mm, then increase weight on the rear axle by increasing wing angle...? You're mental...!

IREvans said: So you're going to take weight off the front axle by lifting it 10mm, then increase weight on the rear axle by increasing wing angle...? You're mental...! I am doing no such thing ! ODD

PorscheGT4 said: I am doing no such thing ! ODD If you lift the car by 10mm that is EXACTLY what you are doing to the aerodynamic load,

You do realise sunnyd is trolling you and his lil fella is throbbing with all the attention your giving him do.t you?