GT3 RS's - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I found these videos really interesting, hope you find them interesting to. In my eyes all the RS's are special and it all comes down to personal taste and driving styles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqa6q95ayk8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSh5XEBf83E Pocty

96RS still the King Makes you realise how great the pressure is for all these journos to always champion the latest and greatest. A regular geezer who can say what he likes tells it how it is.

The 6RS come out this week for a few drives after a bit of a lay off. It is quite subtely different (thinking more from a 996 GT3 comparison than a 997 one) You can really feel the 50kg or so of lightness...I really don't think it is just placebo The car is that much lighter on its toes, so much more engaging ...and my 996 GT3 which I am mentally comparing to is no slouch either - that is a CS model running cup diff and aggressive geo. ...however the weight reduction coupled with the engine tweaks which change the power delivery in mid band (again more subtle delta than explosive delta) make for a much more responsive, angrier, and immediate responding experience. Funnily enough the car does move around a little..too much agressive action with the right foot (e.g. throttle lift followed by power down) and the diff locks and the car suddenly rotates more than expected, etc. Every now and then it reacts to the imperfections in the road - I dont mean random sniffing out of cambers - but actual reaction to the topography of the road, a bump, a dip, a camber, painted surface, etc...I call this feedback and feel, someone not used to it may call it a wayward car...but thats what's so great about them! Then the RS livery adds to the drama and attracts a lot more attention too...once upon a time a 6RS would not attract all that much attention. However, today I've had so many traffic light, parked by, appreciative comments by members of the public...it was as if as the cars are getting older, the general public is recognising a historic classic as opposed to the latest modern sports car iteration. Yes, the real world price delta between a 996 GT3 and 996 RS is probably not directly worth the parts / performance difference...but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art Anyway, I shall stop reveling in my little state of happiness now

boring beige ?

Sounds like a toyota prius will win the day

Got round to looking at the vids while a server loads up Just sounds a whole lot of compromise on any of them on track and on the road understeer seems the order of the day. and PASM sucks. and on the road 2 of them will drive you into a ditch !!! Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 19th November 18:14

mrdemon said: Got round to looking at the vids while a server loads up Just sounds a whole lot of compromise on any of them on track and on the road understeer seems the order of the day. and PASM sucks. and on the road 2 of them will drive you into a ditch !!! Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 19th November 18:14 If ditches scare you and you don't have enough confidence in your own ability may i make a suggestion ? The answer might lie in a Cayman, Porsche's 'finest handling car'. Saying that, every time i've driven one its bored the tits off me. Can't stand the damm things. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY

jackal said: If ditches scare you and you don't have enough confidence in your own ability may i make a suggestion ? The answer might lie in a Cayman, Porsche's 'finest handling car'. Saying that, every time i've driven one its bored the tits off me. Can't stand the damm things. YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY Even a Cayman R Jackal? Genuinely interested in your view here. Did own a 6RS great car but not an everyday one as we all know and not my personal favourite which is why I moved it on. Not a bad experience however for financial reasons :-)

Scooty100 said: Even a Cayman R Jackal? Genuinely interested in your view here. Did own a 6RS great car but not an everyday one as we all know and not my personal favourite which is why I moved it on. Not a bad experience however for financial reasons :-) Yep, even a Cayman R. Here's my summation from another thread : When my Slate grey Gen 1 GT3 went back to Swindon OPC for some warranty work, I requested a Cayman R as a loan car. Swindon were very accommodating and I found myself with the keys to an almost new GT Silver Cayman R for the next five days. Having read all the glowing road tests of the recently launched car, I couldn’t wait to get behind the wheel. Alas, I’m afraid it turned out to be rather a damp squib. If the 964 RS sounds like old tin cans (not sure what you’re referring to specifically ?) the Cayman R sounded like any other car on the road (but hey, at least by pressing a button you could make it sound “sporty”). And what a sporty noise it was. Not. Instead you got a slightly louder and more convoluted/synthesised version of the “basic” non-sport noise. A word in your shell-like, get someone to take you out in a de-catted 964 RS, (preferably one fitted with a Cup pipe fitted) then you’ll know what “sporty” sounds like. But failing that, I’ll take you out for a spin in my Manthey modified GT3. “But what if I don’t want the sporty noise all the time ?” you say. Simple, don’t tread on the loud pedal so heavily. So my summation is thus : Steering ? Lifeless, lacking in weight, feedback and to a lesser degree, feel (not helped by the Bridgestone tyres I suspect). Brakes ? Rather lacking in feel, pathetically small and looked lost behind the rather lovely 19” lightweight wheels. Engine ? Dull, lacking in any real character, top end verve and a decent soundtrack. Internal door pulls ? A joke (see my original post below requoted for posterity) : "Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide" Interior ? Bland and generally lacking any sense of occasion. The drive ? Very accomplished (but wait for it), dull. I had the car five days, but having driven it from Swindon back oop North, it sat forlornly on the drive for the duration, as I couldn’t muster sufficient enthusiasm to take it on a proper cross country hoon across N.Wales. How sad is that ? Conclusion ? Just not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne for my taste. Overly harsh ? Maybe. But anyone that's driven an air-cooled RS or a water-cooled GT car (well certainly the 996 iterations) will be all too aware that the Cayman, irrespective of how efficient it is at getting from A to B, has little in the way of character, limited tactility, and from my perspective is about as engaging as night down the pub with Simon Cowell.

thought some might find this interesting, i assume it was filmed from the same day as the videos OP posted, sorry if repost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOphG8sztfk

Is the Cayman really this poor? Which I find hard to believe given the strength of Porsche as a brand Or is this an (exaggerated) polar opposite reaction to someone else on this thread who has had an open and vociferous opinion that is (some would say irrationally) anti-GT3? (PH threads can get a bit tit/tat which I think has the risk of discouraging further contribution)

I'm no journalist. i had a spyder and a cayman R and now still have my 7.2RS. CR is no RS, but I miss it. They r all good cars.

LaSource said: Is the Cayman really this poor? Which I find hard to believe given the strength of Porsche as a brand Or is this an (exaggerated) polar opposite reaction to someone else on this thread who has had an open and vociferous opinion that is (some would say irrationally) anti-GT3? (PH threads can get a bit tit/tat which I think has the risk of discouraging further contribution) No, it's not an "exaggerated" polar opposite reaction far from it. Which is precisely why I stated it was from a previous thread (perhaps I should have said it was from a non-Porsche forum, non-Demon thread ?) Neither was it a tit for tat post, because it was not intended for Demon's perusal originally. The Cayman R is an accomplished car, but so is a Datsun GTR and a 997/991 Turbo S, neither of which I aspire to own. That doesn't mean they're bad cars (and despite having driven a 997 TS and not particularly been impressed, I didn't then post on here saying they're rubbish because the example I drove didn't "do" it for me) it just means that ultimate speed isn't everything for me, and easily attainable speed even less so. For me the CR is just too easy and lacking in tactility and engagement to make it an event/challenging to drive, hence my use of the words "not special enough, too amorphous and too anodyne". Someone referred to the words in my initial post (I've linked to below) on the 964 RS as eulogising. Could I do the same with the Cayman R ? No. Could I do the same with either of my 996 GT2's ? Certainly. My CSL ? Definitely. All the Mk1 996 GT3's I've owned ? Well I think you know the answer to that one ....... Of course Mr D sees those who eulogise about their GT3's as "fanboys", one assumes that to be a derogatory term ?. But he's also stated in black and white, on this very forum, that GT3 owners discussing their cars in such terms annoy/irritate him immensely.The word hate may have been used iirc. We have to ask ourselves why that is, and the obvious answer is his brief ownership wasn't enjoyable for a host of reasons (reasons few others agree with seemingly) thus he's taken it upon himself to wage a campaign to discredit both the GT3 and it's owners on here. This used to be the go to forum for GT3 owners to garner information about their cars, be they tracking them or using them on the road. But then Mr D appeared on here, he took it upon himself to respond to almost any comments posted by well-intentioned GT3 owners, with snide, sarcastic contrary responses whose sole purpose was/is to create discord, in the process he forced several well intentioned and well regarded contributors to leave this forum. Not content with having done as much (but I assume pleased with his actions) his behaviour continues to this day without showing any sign of abating. Normally in these circumstances, the old adage "don't feed the troll would apply", regrettably Mr Demon's campaign isn't so easily ended it would seem. But I digress ...... My comments on the CR can be found in context within this thread regarding 964 RS values : Specifically my initial post can be found here : http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... The summation of the Cayman is on the final page of the thread : Enjoy .... Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 20th November 01:34

Great post tks. Just wondering about the GT4 and weather if it gets loaded priced at 80k if its worth double what a current cayman R is selling for. More research needed for me :-)

Slippy, I hear you. However, to avoid derailing the original thread I will leave it at that. I am trying to post something about the ownership experience of these cars which does not happen very often anymore on PH....assuming people still like reading about that.

of course the Cayman comments are ""exaggerated" views esp some of the daft things , like the steering is dull !! the steering on a R is better than any GT3, it's more weighted and you have a bit more weight over the front. People who find them dull are just not driving hard enough, prob too use to having to back off in a GT3 when the Cayman will just give you more lol (joke, chill out) I am not anti GT3, I think the car is torn about what it is, these vids prove that yet again, yes you CAN make a good GT3, many do and spend £1000's on them. I won't even talk 964 RS with cup pipes, you can put straight through pipes on any car, and the 964RS is very harsh ride for the road. I was close to buying a nice example when they were in the £40's but boy does that jiggle about, great fun my go in one, but again not a B road car. I would love a GT3, and a 964RS and a few other cars in my garage, but on here the GT3 has a very screwed view on what is great, and most people have cars so modded then pit them up vs a stock Cayman with stock geo and pads on a track like Spa or some thing daft. I always buy the best car in the range , always have right from a MIni (own a JCW) to a GT3, you never look back and think "I just wish" so had a Noble , CSL, M3 V8 comp, exiges, Clio Trophy, JCW, Cayman R's , SPyders, Gt3's you get the drift. the GT3 is the most over hyped car of them all imo, hence you see the same cars up for sale time and time again with 7 or even 10 owners even on 2010 cars. I have always said I have a love/hate with them (that's the only time I used the word hate) as it's not a word I like to use, but love/hate is a well know saying.... The GT3 is a great car on the right road in the right place, sadly in the UK those "RIGHT" roads don't come up that often. I think we would all like a GT3 as a 4th car (with passives) to take to some of these Euro track days, as there is not much any better. But I think my GT3 views are very valid and there are a growing amount of ex GT3 owners now in R's on this forum. the R has it's flaws of course but with a few simple cheap tweaks it's a great car to drive in the UK. All the cars are great, I think people get over protective when I voice what I think a GT3 is like, some say you talk up the cars you own, but I owned a very clean well set up example, and still said what I said, I always put my money where my mouth is and not fussed what people say or think about cars, they are lumps of metal and will be still running when I am long gone, So we really only rent them even if we own them. I liked the Spyder so much which I ran along side the GT3 for 8 months that I did not want the R and bought the M3 but again a very frustrating over hyped car imo. hence ending up in the R which to some seems daft when I own a Spyder, but they are great drivers car imho esp on a summers day when you can have the roof off in the Spyder, you can tell it's light in the drive, in fact the lightest car Porsche have made for many years and that does buck about more than the R (not a ditch finder though on the Fosse way as an example but an exciting bit of movement) may people aspire to own a GT3, and that is when I post and ask what they want to do with the car, as for many the GT3 is the WRONG car to own, and that's where GT3 owners get so upset and cause such a load of hassle it all goes to s t lol even to a point you get GT3 drivers trying to run off unknown Spyders off the track and even post the vids on you tube !!! So the haters will hate and life goes on, as long as we enjoy the cars we own then it's all good, but too many people do argue black is white but that's forums for you. I am sure the GT4 will cause a whole new load of comments esp since it's touted as a drivers car now the new 991 GT3 is all electric and automatic.

Is the GT4 going to be manual and non electric? My 2p worth, the Spyder is a "nice" car, but its engine, grip and steering are not even in the same ball park as a GT3 - of any ilk. I'm sure the Spyder is better suited to some roads, but that doesn't make it better than a GT3.

Alpinestars said: Is the GT4 going to be manual and non electric? My 2p worth, the Spyder is a "nice" car, but its engine, grip and steering are not even in the same ball park as a GT3 - of any ilk. I'm sure the Spyder is better suited to some roads, but that doesn't make it better than a GT3. I am not saying any car is better, people mod them to suit what they want to do with them. It is no good having all the grip in the world if you cannot keep the wheels on the tarmac ! Some say the Cayman and Boxster have too much grip to be fun. others want more grip. every review says the 911 understeers and every new 911 is slighty better in that dept (Chris Harris always said that which was amusing and he must be the biggest GT3 fan) it seems the only way to stop under steer in a 911 is to have rear wheel steering :-) but the track guys run so much neg camber it's ruins the car for the road or the wet. The GT4 is not going to have Rear steer, or PDK( so the rumour is) but I guess we are stuck with electric steering. As I said all great cars but not in all area's

LaSource said: Is the Cayman really this poor? Which I find hard to believe given the strength of Porsche as a brand Think it probably lies somewhere in between the 2 extremes portrayed here, at least for me anyway. Seriously considered one last year but while it was a nice enough well sorted car (particularly for the price), the cayman r is nothing like as special to drive as any gt3 IMO and I would never ever consider swapping a gt3 for the R if financial considerations didn't come into it.

The thing with the Cayman is it's in the middling ground. It's nowhere near as connected, feelsome and VITAL as a GT3 or an older aircooled 911 and dynamically nowhere near as interesting or rewarding either. As a SPECIAL weekend car, a roadtrip car, an EVENT ... it just doesn't hit the spot. But then as a more generalist performance car, someting like an M5 or a Cayenne Turbo is just as much fun yet way way faster and light years better at all the practical stuff like comfort, carrying passengers and luggage, toys and specification etc. Give me the extremes, the ultimates, the reference standard at either end ... I don't want anything from the middle. I don't aspire to the middle. The middle is bad.

So, agree with the fact that this is horses for courses. A GT3 is a track going road car (some tend to say the 6RS is more of a road going track car)...therefore anyone who buys one to take the other half for sunday lunch along a pot holed B road is in for dissaapointment. Imv, you should you should consider a GT3 if you: - intend to use it for a mix of road and track - want a car which can drive with fun on most roads (apart from pot holed ones) and can take proper track stress without much trouble - open to light amounts of modification (just brakes really) if intended for robust track use - likely to be a 2nd or 3rd car (should not be a daily driver, should not be used only for sunday lunches) - you recognise that you will need to put a period of time investing in your driving ability (for a rear engined car). If you want a 'get in and go' experience, or do not have the interest or patience to learn a rear engined craft then other easier options are around - you want to minimise financial depreciation (or perhaps possibly benefit from some appreciation as well) - The RS models then add more drama, heritage, small degrees of performance, and financial protection (usually) If your uses are not the above...not the right car The next level of breakdown would determine which variant is best...ie. 996.1 all the way to 991 That's another set of decisions led by affordability, road/track bias, personal preference, etc. But there is one for everyone there

jackal said: The thing with the Cayman is it's in the middling ground. It's nowhere near as connected, feelsome and VITAL as a GT3 or an older aircooled 911 and dynamically nowhere near as interesting or rewarding either. As a SPECIAL weekend car, a roadtrip car, an EVENT ... it just doesn't hit the spot. But then as a more generalist performance car, someting like an M5 or a Cayenne Turbo is just as much fun yet way way faster and light years better at all the practical stuff like comfort, carrying passengers and luggage, toys and specification etc. Give me the extremes, the ultimates, the reference standard at either end ... I don't want anything from the middle. I don't aspire to the middle. The middle is bad. To me a GT3 is the middle in a bad way, it thinks it's a track car but runs PASM and understeers. A GT3 is crying out for a set of 3 ways out the box from Porsche, it's crazy not to have them on a GT3. so it neither makes a good road car or a good track car out the box !!! Like wise the R makes a bad track car out the box, but a better road car. Both a GT3 and a R can be made to feel as exciting as one wants, I have fitted a few bits to my Spyder, monball rear, adjustable LCA and a nice geo set up, engine mounts etc. People do the same with a GT3's mainly brakes and shocks, but again a few with monball sus. neither is more or less exciting imo if set up right. to start saying "a Cayenne Turbo is just as much fun" is now getting a bit daft.

HokumPokum said: I'm no journalist. i had a spyder and a cayman R and now still have my 7.2RS. CR is no RS, but I miss it. They r all good cars. My Boxster is well setup and a beautiful drive that is as engaging and fun as the first time I drove it 5 years ago. But... It doesn't even come close to an RS. The 7.2 RS is the best road car I have ever driven (not tried 991 GT3 yet) and I don't think the Cayman will ever match what the RS gives the talented driver. One can hope the GT4 will be amazing, but Porsche have never surprised us so it could be a limited upgrade of parts like the Spyder / Cayman R - which is enough for some people, but others want to engage, learn and enjoy something on a superior level. This is why the RS is special. The Cayman is Porsche's worst selling model in the entire range, albeit the best handling one - why? Porsche are not going to invest GT3 levels of money in the GT4 - it would not make business sense for a few die hard enthusiasts percentage wise. PS: I will miss my Boxster when it goes, but it will be replaced with something special next year hopefully

LaSource said: but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art How did she respond?

roygarth said: LaSource said: but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art How did she respond? Hahaha She said 'I couldn't care less, your driving is making me sick ' Plus the car was stiff over the bumps and her texting was full of typing errors

LaSource said: A GT3 is a track going road car (some tend to say the 6RS is more of a road going track car)...therefore anyone who buys one to take the other half for sunday lunch along a pot holed B road is in for dissaapointment. I've never owned a GT3 (yet) but have had the pleasure of many passenger rides on circuits. This includes all generations bar the 4.0RS. Each time I've thought to myself 'race car for the road'. Particularly the 6RS and 7.1RS. Not so much the outright speed. More the sensations they provide when sat in one while being chucked around the corners. However, this all changed when I recently I had my first track ride in a 991GT3. This time my thought was 'very fast road car'. There was no drama or 'race car feel'. I think the new style of cabin had a lot to do with this.

LaSource said: roygarth said: LaSource said: but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art How did she respond? Hahaha She said 'I couldn't care less, your driving is making me sick ' Plus the car was stiff over the bumps and her texting was full of typing errors I thought as much...glad I'm not alone! Took the Challenge Stradale out to dinner...at venue wife struggled to get out in all her finery muttering 'that's the first and last time I go anywhere IN THAT! 'Result!' I muttered under my breath....

roygarth said: LaSource said: roygarth said: LaSource said: but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art How did she respond? Hahaha She said 'I couldn't care less, your driving is making me sick ' Plus the car was stiff over the bumps and her texting was full of typing errors I thought as much...glad I'm not alone! Took the Challenge Stradale out to dinner...at venue wife struggled to get out in all her finery muttering 'that's the first and last time I go anywhere IN THAT! 'Result!' I muttered under my breath.... Heard that many times. Plus, the 'you should not have sold your black GT3 for the multi-coloured RS' ...or the 'what's that fire extinguisher doing in the footwell...' There are situations where a bogo Aston Martin gets you a LOT more points ...so, those that are still single, bear this in mind, those in marriage, get a GT3!

boxsey said: I've never owned a GT3 (yet) but have had the pleasure of many passenger rides on circuits. This includes all generations bar the 4.0RS. Each time I've thought to myself 'race car for the road'. Particularly the 6RS and 7.1RS. Not so much the outright speed. More the sensations they provide when sat in one while being chucked around the corners. However, this all changed when I recently I had my first track ride in a 991GT3. This time my thought was 'very fast road car'. There was no drama or 'race car feel'. I think the new style of cabin had a lot to do with this. Agreed. I find it hard to reconcile the large centre console (and auto stick) with a road racer. Even the 4.0 RS, although more modern compared to a 996 RS, still feels like a well specced racer

Cayman R: music with headphones from your iPOD GT3: music at the front of a live performance Cayman R: sex with condoms and bright lights in a hotel room with a/c GT3: unprotected sex with candle light outdoors

The centre console is a crap idea, the cars are Rear engine rear wheel drive, older 911's did not have a centre console ffs. The Cayman is what it is a road car, the GT3 to me is very lacking for a track car in the sus department, and disk dept and now every one is warranty mad, no one seems to touch them !! SO you are left with a car which does not work as well as it should on the road or track, ffs even Renault put Ohlins on a hot hatch, so cannot see why people stick up for the GT3 so much when it is so lacking. At least the R is set up for the road and works great on one.

SFO said: Cayman R: music with headphones from your iPOD GT3: music at the front of a live performance Cayman R: sex with condoms and bright lights in a hotel room with a/c GT3: unprotected sex with candle light outdoors GT3 is more ride the ripple fat bird till it throws you off !!! the 991 GT3 is more virtual sex. R is shagging the girl next door which you always think you can do better but you don't know how good it is till it's gone.

SFO said: Cayman R: music with headphones from your iPOD GT3: music at the front of a live performance Cayman R: sex with condoms and bright lights in a hotel room with Mr Demons wife GT3: sex with two hookers, porn and a large pile of coke...

Oh hi Sean How's the GT3? Will I be seeing you on tour next year?

Let's get back on topic here. So the OP's linked video opined that the 997.2RS is a bit too much jack of all trades...would anyone agree? I assume he meant for serious track use... I have not track a 997.2 platform car, but on the road they are excelllent.

GT3 - Batard Montrachet Grand Cru Cayman - Blue Nun

pete a said: Oh hi Sean How's the GT3? Will I be seeing you on tour next year? hello excellent edits GT3 is well .. was at Goodwood last Sat sliding all over the place in the damp! yes, paid deposit on Assault have you?

I was about to ask "how does a Cayman come up in a topic about GT3 RSs" then I remembered it would be more unusual if it didn't.

jackal said: GT3 - Batard Montrachet Grand Cru Cayman - Blue Nun 2nd label more like

ArcticGT3 said: I was about to ask "how does a Cayman come up in a topic about GT3 RSs" then I remembered it would be more unusual if it didn't. Ok, ok, you win first prize

LaSource said: Let's get back on topic here. So the OP's linked video opined that the 997.2RS is a bit too much jack of all trades...would anyone agree? I assume he meant for serious track use... I have not track a 997.2 platform car, but on the road they are excelllent. The fella in the video seems to be able to peddle a bit but he doesnt own , hasn't owned any of them. One fella who nobody's heard of prefers a 996 on a biblically wet Silverstone and all of a sudden the rest of the worlds media got it wrong about the .2 RS...a car that is quicker than a 6RS on a track and better on the road is too much a jack of all trades and not enough of what exactly? Add to that if you really dont like pasm or are actually aware of why you dont like pasm then you can change it.

Sorry to go off topic here (as I also don't see much value in comparing those Rs' under such conditions) but I've had my 6.2 GT3 for 6 years and drove the Cayman R on the Silverstone handling circuit. I thought the 'R' was an incredible car, I absolutely loved it, handling was superb, it felt much more chuckable and lighter than the GT3. The only problem was the lack of grunt and auto-box. Other than that it's a world class car. (much much nicer than the Boxster Spyder and current 981S) As you were....

ttdan said: The fella in the video seems to be able to peddle a bit but he doesnt own , hasn't owned any of them. One fella who nobody's heard of prefers a 996 on a biblically wet Silverstone and all of a sudden the rest of the worlds media got it wrong about the .2 RS...a car that is quicker than a 6RS on a track and better on the road is too much a jack of all trades and not enough of what exactly? Add to that if you really dont like pasm or are actually aware of why you dont like pasm then you can change it. I agree the conditions were crap in the vid. I don't think his analysis was based on the his drives of the day but more from his general experience of the cars at other times. Personally I do tend to agree with the gist of his message - ie 996 very analogue and fun on track, less well suited to pure road driving, 997.1 better road suited, and 997.2 tried to take it back a little towards rawness....but not as far as the 996 ...but as you say, all the cars can be altered to change/tune their behaviour - benign/aggressive geo on 996, passive suspension on 997, etc I think the overall gist as stated above probably remains.

Mousem40 said: Sorry to go off topic here (as I also don't see much value in comparing those Rs' under such conditions) but I've had my 6.2 GT3 for 6 years and drove the Cayman R on the Silverstone handling circuit. I thought the 'R' was an incredible car, I absolutely loved it, handling was superb, it felt much more chuckable and lighter than the GT3. The only problem was the lack of grunt and auto-box. Other than that it's a world class car. (much much nicer than the Boxster Spyder and current 981S) As you were.... Although the above is rightly your experience of the drive and sounds quite reasonable and probable, I have found that no two 996 GT3 are quite the same. Differences in geo, suspension, diff, etc really changes their feel. I've done quite a few driver swaps with friends in their GT3s and quite amazed by the differences. Of course I love mine the most

Mousem40 said: Sorry to go off topic here (as I also don't see much value in comparing those Rs' under such conditions) but I've had my 6.2 GT3 for 6 years and drove the Cayman R on the Silverstone handling circuit. I thought the 'R' was an incredible car, I absolutely loved it, handling was superb, it felt much more chuckable and lighter than the GT3. The only problem was the lack of grunt and auto-box. Other than that it's a world class car. (much much nicer than the Boxster Spyder and current 981S) As you were.... not everything is better for me.. loved the steering in the 981. more accurate than the 987

Agreed Totally I sold a 6RS to go back to a 7gt3 as it was better for me and have s LOI for a GT4 but I so love the GT3 Im unlikely to sell it. Get what suits you not what others tell you to buy

Scooty100 said: Agreed Totally I sold a 6RS to go back to a 7gt3 as it was better for me and have s LOI for a GT4 but I so love the GT3 Im unlikely to sell it. Get what suits you not what others tell you to buy How many trackdays did you do in your 6RS?

LaSource said: Mousem40 said: Sorry to go off topic here (as I also don't see much value in comparing those Rs' under such conditions) but I've had my 6.2 GT3 for 6 years and drove the Cayman R on the Silverstone handling circuit. I thought the 'R' was an incredible car, I absolutely loved it, handling was superb, it felt much more chuckable and lighter than the GT3. The only problem was the lack of grunt and auto-box. Other than that it's a world class car. (much much nicer than the Boxster Spyder and current 981S) As you were.... Although the above is rightly your experience of the drive and sounds quite reasonable and probable, I have found that no two 996 GT3 are quite the same. Differences in geo, suspension, diff, etc really changes their feel. I've done quite a few driver swaps with friends in their GT3s and quite amazed by the differences. Of course I love mine the most I was just addressing the balance with respect to previous posts on the Cayman R, it's a great car. Although a great car it may be, the GT3 is on another level altogether. Hokumpokum - I found the 981 brakes to be way over servoed and the car felt just too heavy compared to the Cayman R (or the 986) totally lost the strengths the Boxster once had - it errs too much on the side of LuxoBarge for me now. Edited by Mousem40 on Saturday 22 November 00:25

i think they had the brakes nice and firm on 986, ruined them for 987 (too mushy) and got better again with firmer brakes on 981. nothing that can't be fixed with a master cylinder change, brake fluid and pads though. heavier yes but faster as well.

LaSource said: roygarth said: LaSource said: but at one point today as I stopped at a red light, I did turn to the other half and point out how I felt I was driving a little piece of history...a work of art How did she respond? Hahaha She said 'I couldn't care less, your driving is making me sick ' Plus the car was stiff over the bumps and her texting was full of typing errors Ha ha ha , brilliant. It reminds me of the row I had with my wife when the fire extinguisher was finally installed and I suggested she might want to sit with it between her legs all the way to Nurburg. Pip