996/997 purchase advice - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi, having had lots of sound advice in the past from the pistonheads community, when making previous purchases (jag XJR/TVR Chimera/Merc SL) i thought i would ask a few daft questions of the Porsche crowd. Next purchase is going to be a 911 as its another car ive always wanted to own. im getting a bit older now and the want list is getting shorter so want to keep this for a while. Ive been looking at the 996 Carrera 4S and am aware of the key issues (again via the forum), and the intention is to buy lowish miles, well maintained/cared for example at the top end of the price range. However the budget could stretch to circa £28k which means a decent but lesser spec 997 gen1 model could be considered, again my intention would be lowish miles well maintained etc, i would rather pay a bit extra and get a good example rather than something thats tired. im not hung up on the whole turbo thing as the non turbos are quick enough for me. so would appreciate any advice/experiences as to the relative merits of 996 vs lesser spec but obviously newer more expensive 997 from someone who has maybe owned either and or both. thanks

Hi, having had lots of sound advice in the past from the pistonheads community, when making previous purchases (jag XJR/TVR Chimera/Merc SL) i thought i would ask a few daft questions of the Porsche crowd. Next purchase is going to be a 911 as its another car ive always wanted to own. im getting a bit older now and the want list is getting shorter so want to keep this for a while. Ive been looking at the 996 Carrera 4S and am aware of the key issues (again via the forum), and the intention is to buy lowish miles, well maintained/cared for example at the top end of the price range. However the budget could stretch to circa £28k which means a decent but lesser spec 997 gen1 model could be considered, again my intention would be lowish miles well maintained etc, i would rather pay a bit extra and get a good example rather than something thats tired. im not hung up on the whole turbo thing as the non turbos are quick enough for me. so would appreciate any advice/experiences as to the relative merits of 996 vs lesser spec but obviously newer more expensive 997 from someone who has maybe owned either and or both. thanks

You seriously gonna buy 3 of them ?

Not sure how that happened Not sure how that happened Not sure how that happened.....

What's the key issue? One of mine doesn't work and I was going to fit a new battery next week. Not usually the concern at the top of people's lists for the 996.

Nice one, had been warned about the Germanic sense of humour...

Would definitely not get a 996 C4S for £28k, that's Turbo or very decent 997 money. What's the intended usage for the car? Also low miles doesn't always mean fewer problems and bills, sometimes quite the opposite.

Hi, The intention was to spend low 20's on a 996 the stretch to £28k would be for 997. Usage is weekends really, I have Other stuff for doing the miles in. I intend to buy on condition and service history, rather than just mileage. Thanks

If its for weekends, does it have to be watercooled?

I think so, I've got an XJS so want something a bit more modern and less of a GT

Ok, then its a 996 turbo. I know you say you dont need that much power, but you dont have to use it all if you dont want to.

Of all the cars you've mentioned, I too would choose a 996 Turbo. You'd get a very clean example for mid £20K. The benefits overall for this car is a bullet proof engine, as its totally different to the units in the 996 and 997, both of which have there share of failures. I wish, I had enough money for a 996 Turbo but my budget was only £20K, so I settled for a 997 Gen 1, knowing that I was taking a risk with it fragile engine. Low and behold mine is now going in for a full engine rebuild or replacemnt under warranty from Porsche after only owning it for 6 weeks! Do some research and you'll find out that the 'Mezger' engine, found in the 996 Turbo, is well revered in the industry. Just look at the resdiduals, last year they were fetching £20K and this year the same cars are commanding at least £25K. They are just going up in value!

thanks for that, thats useful

Chowgar, Sorry to hear about your engine troubles. Do you think the previous owner sold it to you know ing what was up? (or did you buy it from a dealer etc?) And in hindsight - was it something you could have spotted at the time of purchase? Ger

My neighbour turned up last weekend in a gorgeous 996 C4S for less than £20k, not so many for sale this time of year but plenty of cars out there. Personally in your budget I'd be looking at a 997 C2 or C2S... but that's just because I've done a 996 already. Superb cars, all of them.

gerlewis said: Chowgar, Sorry to hear about your engine troubles. Do you think the previous owner sold it to you know ing what was up? (or did you buy it from a dealer etc?) And in hindsight - was it something you could have spotted at the time of purchase? Ger It's nigh on impossible to know if a car's suffering from Bore Scoring unless you have a borescope inspection done. I knew this fully before making the purchase and bought the car based on condition and upkeep. Both of which were exceptionally good, having been maintained even better than Porsche's own service plan. So many of these cars are now suffering with this condition, so I kind of expected it, as much as I'd rather not have had to deal with it. My local Porsche specialist told me my car was in very good condition other than this problem and he said that the engines are still very well designed for their purpose. Had this insufficient cooling of the cylinder walls not have plagued these vehicles, they would've been almost perfect. It still puts a huge smile on my face every time I drive it though! It sounds like a jet engine behind you and feels amazing when driving it they way it was intended. The gear changes are nothing like I've ever pysically experienced. I've only ever felt this in a video game! You honestly feel like your driving a race car! Is it worth the expensive initial outlay and possible massive overheads in maintenance. Oh yeah. Once you've tasted a 911, you'll never want to drive anything lesser.

You 'felt' it in a video game? Interesting statement.

Depends whether or not your budget is low 20's or 28. If it's 28 then your looking at a good 996 tt or a decent 997 gen 1. The 996 tt has the extra poke and more engine security but is a bit more old school nowadays, particularly inside. If you do decide to peg yourself at the 20k end of the spectrum then you could do worse than a really well sorted 996 4s. I've had 3 996's spanning 3-4 years ownership without a hitch, I've also had a gen 1 997 4s and that gave me no dramas neither. Earlier this year I was looking to get back into a 911 after a few years without one and faced a similar choice to you, in the end I held my budget at the low 20's and bought another 9964s cab with a great spec and an engine that's already been done. I bought from Portiacraft and had good service, they also mentioned that they don't buy anything in without doing a boroscope and they reject about a 1/3 based on that inspection so in fairness that would suggest buying with your eyes open.

mollytherocker said: You 'felt' it in a video game? Interesting statement. How do you know, I don't have a Race Driving Simulator Machine in my home? Go suck a lemon, and take that out of context! I can't stand people who love to wade through posts to find literal errors. Its a bloody casual forum, not a thesis on a PHD subject! Edited by chowgar on Sunday 30th November 03:44

Thanks for the info Chowgar. Im in a similar position to you, £20k budget, and prefer a 997 to a 996. So I enjoyed your take on things. Ger

If you are considering a relatively simple spec Carrera 997 (not an S spec) the journos reckon it is for the ardent motorist a better car along as it has the right suspension/wheels & exhaust as the car is less fettered by power & driver aids though they will be harder to find & sell unfortunately. The dreaded engine problem still exists in early 997s & I know of x2 '05 cars that had the problem so for many buying a car from an OPC with warranty is appealing although the early 997s are now on the cusp of being too old to renew the normal OPC way. I'm not sure whether people feel they get their monies worth from the extra it costs to buy from an OPC vs a good indie. Try a few of each as you will getter a better idea of how they should drive as even low miles cars can need replacement suspension bushes etc & brakes of that age (especially if the car is washed & then regularly parked up to allow the discs to corrode). A good specialist like 911 Virgin or JZM will have a range of cars to consider & will be very frank about the pitfalls of these cars & buying them as their reputation relies on them buying good cars & also offering good standards of prep & comprehensive warranties. It might be worth joining TIPEC and going to a regional meeting as most enthusiasts will happily speak about their ownership experiences.

I bought my 911 to keep for a long time. These aren't your run of the mill cars, that you look to change when it goes out of fashion every 2 years! The 911 is a timeless classic in every version that Porsche released. So if you're looking at keeping your car for a while, then factor in the cost of an engine rebuild, so that you get a bullet proof engine for many, many years afterwards. The specialists like Hartech are rebuilding the engines better than when they came out of the factory. They rectify all the weak areas from the original build that have caused the cylinder bore damage. These cars don't like to be left to rot in garages! You need to give them a good thrashing every now and then, as its what they were built for. As long as you are careful, with properly warming the engine up and cooling down before switching off, the car will be fine. Edited by chowgar on Sunday 30th November 18:08

Thanks for the help gents really appreciate it. My intention was to buy from a reputable Indy to lessen the risk of major engine issues. Initial thoughts were a well sorted 996C4s with the intention to keep it for a while, which is why I got to thinking should I stretch to a 997, would it be worth the extra expense. It sounds like I can get what I'm after in the low 20's band. I don't mind old school interiors as I have modern as a daily drive. So Portiacraft, Virgin 911 both get a mention, does anyone have any others they would recommend, any experiences with RPM or 911 box?

I find Northway excellent, I would buy a car from a specialist who has a good workshop rather than a showroom only, that way they can fix issues for you without referring to warranties the whole time I would go 997 over 996, the 997 is lightyears ahead in terms of looks & interior in my opinion

4S arse in 996 era takes some beating.................. And for balance one of my old 997

I agree,996 looks fantastic from the back

Steve996 said: 4S arse in 996 era takes some beating.................. And for balance one of my old 997 Nice to see the 4 wheel drive C4S being used properly..... Off road I still think they are beautiful cars! Although at times, I think we all get a little hung up on the 'correct' model and spec as at the end of the day they are all 911s and when we were 'boys' all we wanted was a 911? Ps - although a Turbo is a 911 Turbo!