Can anyone share their experiences of their early Panamera - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Having recently realised that early Panameras have dipped to quite affordable prices I'm very tempted to buy one as a daily driver. There seem to be quite a few 3.0 diesels at around 2011/2 for about £30K with low mileages. Even higher mileage ones seem to wear wear very well. One I looked at nearby was a 61 plate with 100K on it and the interior looked virtually new. I didn't drive it as a bad paint repair put me off it but they look amazing value for what seems to be a proper luxury car. I do 20-25K miles a year and am wondering if an early car would be a good buy. Are there any serious maintenance costs I'd need to factor into ownership? How have others got on with these earlier cars. Any advice appreciated.

Have I put this in the wrong section?

I've got a 59 Petrol S. It still looks box fresh inside. Outside the PPF is beginning to look a bit sorry for itself and there are the inevitable stone chips you pick up with derestricted autobahn speeds and driving in the Alps but the paintwork overall is holding up well. It has a varied life - London to Milan and back once a month or so and plenty of local driving in the Italian Lakes area. I drive briskly... Apart from the gearbox oil cooler s tting itself (a 2000 Euro fix), I've had no problems with it at all. They really are very good cars indeed.

I have an 09 Turbo and it still feels (and smells) like new.....yet cost about the same as the diesels you're looking at (both are very good; the car needs lots of torque). Looked at the forums for months beforehand and it seems almost nothing goes wrong with them (yet!). You can warranty them with Porsche up to 15 years old, don't forget, although they insist on all-OEM parts (including tyres and brakes, which the warranty doesn't cover.....), which soon adds up. 2 years is £1900+cost of inspection (£200-ish). I've not bothered as it needed all-news discs, pads and tyres; going non-OEM (doing work myself), non-warranty has saved £4000 already! Fantastic piece of kit and if you're doing that many miles, a great choice. Only draw-back is that it is wide, which can be an issue on narrow roads and in underground/multi-storey car parks.Try to get air suspension if you can (and bigger wheels, which look better), double-glazing is great and I've been really impressed with the rear sun-blind (helps a lot at night). You can get TechArt flappy-paddles for £150 or so, if (like me) you don't like the rocker switches on the steering wheel (which is otherwise fantastic). Trying to resist the huge temptation to re-map....... Yachting blue and RS-Spyder wheels is my favourite combination:

They just seem such a nice place to spend what amounts to about 2 months in a year of driving time and there seem to be many around at 150K miles plus still looking great and little more than routine servicing spent on them. Other cars I'm considering are a 640D or a CLS but the Panamera just looks so much more special both inside and out.

It is, for sure. Go for it!

Had a 4S in Yachting blue, spyder wheels and that interior, for about a year or so. was a lovely car, but the temptation of a full Black sports design pack Turbo won. 4S had an issue with the PASM dampers - there was a light knock from the NSF one, over certain bumps that the OPC just couldn't cure. I dont think it was the damper, as a last resort they replaced it under warranty. Knock still there. I solved it by swapping to the Turbo ! no issues at all on that car - it was a ballistic missile, notching up nearly 190 mph @ brunters. I'd have one again - the warranty certainly helps for piece of mind

Thought about exactly the same car as you, but eventually went sensible; a huge, black car will never look clean!

My business partner is selling his low mileage diesel Panny by sale or return at an independent here in Yorkshire. If you're serious PM me and I'll put you in touch to cut out the middle man. I'd be shocked if it weren't in absolutely perfect order. He's obsessive with his cars.

I had a 2012 GTS, which I bought secondhand through the AUC program and did 20k miles in over 2 years of ownership. I realise the GTS has lower suspension than most Panameras but it had numerous suspension issues, including having all the bushes replaced as well as numerous control arms and other parts - apparently a common problem on early Panameras, so check if they have been replaced. I saw one of the repair bills when I went to pick it up after the replacement of the bushes and the bill was something like £5.5k, so I'd never run one without a warranty. I had some electrical niggles with the PDCC not going into sport mode on occasion (never fixed), the car not starting after a hot run through town (never fixed) and also had to have a replacement air conditioning compressor. I enjoyed the car despite the faults but when it developed a funny knocking noise on full lock that the dealers simply couldn't identify or fix, I traded it in against a 64 plate Panamera Turbo S. The Gen 2 cars apparently had substantial suspension revamps and do ride quite differently in my experience.

BnB said: My business partner is selling his low mileage diesel Panny by sale or return at an independent here in Yorkshire. If you're serious PM me and I'll put you in touch to cut out the middle man. I'd be shocked if it weren't in absolutely perfect order. He's obsessive with his cars. Many thanks PM sent.

I've been running a 2013 Platinum-spec diesel as my daily drive since new. It's a superb car and remains a pleasure to use on every occasion I take it out. I'm firmly of the view that air suspension is a 'must' having driven others with steel springs; the adjustability and sheer comfort make any premium worthwhile. I also agree with an earlier poster that 20" wheels suit the body design and have no discernible impact on ride quality. It's a big car but I've not found that much of a problem. I regularly drive into London and park on the street without difficulty although you may have to dial up the concentration levels a bit ! The back streets of Amsterdam were more challenging. The diesel unit is fine ( mine is 250BHP) for all normal purposes and the 8-speed box ratios are well-matched. It's ridiculously economical , returning 40mpg in general use and up to 50mpg on a trans-continental run largely in cruise mode. I specified a 100litre tank so I'm not often seen at the local garage. Suspension can sound a bit clonky on occasions over bad surfaces at low speed but otherwise ride and roadholding are excellent. There's a lot of carrying capacity and, whilst it's strictly a 4-seater , my passengers invariably compliment the comfort of the car. I wouldn't want to run this car without a Porsche warranty; I suspect repair costs would be eye-watering. The problems I've had have been minor but I think will have covered the premium cost. Tyre wear has been fair at around 15000mls per set. Ultimately, it's an interesting car which differentiates it from most of the alternatives.

Interesting feedback, I've often thought about a Panamera as the next "family car" as I am not so keen on the Cayenne. What are owners' view on carrying capacity? Anyone used to roof racks? Also, any views on the V6 petrol? I don't want /need diesel and also don't fancy another car with in the £500 road tax bracket.

Carrying capacity is good and roof-racks are usable. No idea about the V6 petrol; go try one? Personally I'd prefer a 4.8 V8, but horses and course and all that.

I would like to tow a small trailer for a quad bike. Does it need to have the towing option for this?

Pistom said: I would like to tow a small trailer for a quad bike. Does it need to have the towing option for this? No, bailer twine will suffice.

I have to agree that the Panamera is looking fantastic value for money right now (I’ve got an ‘11 turbo). They are very very spec sensitive though, I’ve been watching the market for a long time - the good ones seem to sell quickly but there are lots of cars out there with odd interior colour combinations / no sports chrono etc which hang around on the market for months.

This thread has just prompted me to check howmanyleft too. Pretty rare cars the turbo, 4s and GTS! https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?page=1&q=Paname... Edited by DangerMonkey on Monday 13th November 08:43

I've had mine for around 4 months now, its a fully loaded 4s and I can safely say for the price it is the best car (of type). The build is fantastic. Grab one with a Bermeister audio option if possible. There are some frustrations with the cost of satnav upgrades etc but so far I've been to the South of France and back, in comfort and returned great mpg. Mine is on 70k and feels like new. The only consideration is just how bloody big it is, but then thats a benefit as I brought home a load of furniture in the back with the seats down. Just had one issue which was a failed coil pack, it is a £50 part to DIY but I'd advise buying from Porsche as the warranty care (Which you pay for in the price) is worth every penny not that you should need it.

Awesome cars. My GTS (.2) has tow bar option. We went for a week in Cornwall October half term. Four of us + 2 dogs with roof box, unfortunately the children didn't want their bikes, so I couldn't have a reason for putting the bike rack on at the same time! Fabulous holiday car.

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Most practical luxobarge!

Just an update today I took a wardrobe down and took to the tip The largest side was 2m 4cm. It fit with the passenger seat pushed forward which was nice It also means that european road trips will now become a lot cheaper

Been looking for a 300 bhp diesel for a few months now....very few around with a light interior, if you dont want a black or white exterior also, quite a rare thing

I own a 2011 Panamera Diesel, i’ve had it for 2 and a bit years, and I do 25k miles a year. It’s just passed the 100k and looks as fresh as when i bought it. It’s dark grey with grey interior. It’s my daily drive, doing a 60 mile round trip daily and then longer runs at least once a week. It’s a superb every day car, comfortable and practical enough, but still feeling special and fun. Like some of the other posts, i have swapped the wheels for a set of 20” which look a lot better than the weedy 18” standard rims. Fuel economy is excellent, mid 40s average, and 50+ on a long run. I’ve had no mechanical issues at all, and servicing has just been usual stuff like dics and pads, tyres, air-con recharge, PCM software update. It has a variable service interval on the OBC, mine seems to require a minor service/oil change once a year, and a major every 2 years. Things i like; The ride, comfort, driving position - perfect for 6hr drives! The handling and (relative) sportiness on twisty B-roads. Switch off the PCM and its a hoot! Engine and 8-speed box work welll together, performance is sufficient for a daily drive, see the Chris Harris video at launch. Radar guided cruise control is delight on M1 traffic. Carries 4 people plus luggage in great comfort. Build quality is excellent, after 100k miles it still feels tight and no rattles. Things I like less; Spec is very important. The base spec is very mean, I wish I had bought a car with a few more options, like Bose sound and memory seats! The car is wide, and whilst i am use to driving it now, it can still be tricky to park and avoid the dreaded trolley dings from other people! The boot isn’t that practical, whilst its deep, you loose a lot of height due the roof line. Overall, i would thorough recommend an early Panamera diesel as a daily drive. I plan to run mine for another 3 years and 200k miles. I’ll keep you posted on how that goes!

Spec is vital as above, the base spec is very poor indeed!

Echo the positives posted already. I bought a basalt 2014 gen 2 diesel with 32k in August (300hp). It’s a fairly good spec as is an ex demo from an OPC. My car has PDLS, comfort memory, soft close, full two tone leather package (black/cream), turbo 2s...it was originally a 73k car. Build quality ie fit and finish is far better than the Cayenne I replaced. It just seems a higher end product. Drivetrain is excellent for a Diesel (Take a look at the Chris Harris and Metcalf reviews at launch) Mine fulfils the daily family driver role accomadating 2 kids under 5 and all that this entails - the pics posted before minus the roof box pretty much sums up the loading every time we go out as a family! MPG is in the 40s with a mixed cycle of school run and longer runs. Computer says due it’s first intermediate under my ownership in 27 days so hopefully all good but as said is an OPC car and have the 2 year Porsche warranty. My advice. Get one bought - great VFM.

Though say a 2012 diesel with approx 60,000 miles for £30K looks good value compared with its price new. It looks expensive against a 2012 A8 or 730 diesel which would be more like £20K or an XJ which would be low £20's or an S class which would be mid £20's. I have studied the adverts on AT quite carefully as considering a replacement for a 2007 Lexus LS460.

A8, 7 and XJ are good cars but neither offer anywhere near the porsche levels of quality or practicality. I certainly could not sit in the back of the A8 or the XJ nor could I fit half as much stuff in the car when required

philipbrown123 said: Though say a 2012 diesel with approx 60,000 miles for £30K looks good value compared with its price new. It looks expensive against a 2012 A8 or 730 diesel which would be more like £20K or an XJ which would be low £20's or an S class which would be mid £20's. I have studied the adverts on AT quite carefully as considering a replacement for a 2007 Lexus LS460. For comparison, mine is a 2014 diesel, with 32k, bought in August for marginally less than 39k from an OPC.... Given mileage and highish spec, Porsche warranty and considering the car as a package, I think I got VFM when compared to the examples above...IMHO

George Smiley said: A8, 7 and XJ are good cars but neither offer anywhere near the porsche levels of quality or practicality. I certainly could not sit in the back of the A8 or the XJ nor could I fit half as much stuff in the car when required These are cars I've considered together with a CLS or a 640D GC. The Panamera seems like much better value for about £10-£15K more.

I have owned 3 Audi A8's. Plenty of room in the back and a huge boot. Only thing against them is bland appearence. A bit like a fat A4/A6.

BJT1Y said: For comparison, mine is a 2014 diesel, with 32k, bought in August for marginally less than 39k from an OPC.... Given mileage and highish spec, Porsche warranty and considering the car as a package, I think I got VFM when compared to the examples above...IMHO That does sound very good value for money. Was the £39K the sticker price or did you manage to negotiate down? I was hoping to find a car for about £30K but a car like yours at that price seems better value so could put the wife out on the streets for a few nights to make up the difference.

Pistom said: BJT1Y said: For comparison, mine is a 2014 diesel, with 32k, bought in August for marginally less than 39k from an OPC.... Given mileage and highish spec, Porsche warranty and considering the car as a package, I think I got VFM when compared to the examples above...IMHO That does sound very good value for money. Was the £39K the sticker price or did you manage to negotiate down? I was hoping to find a car for about £30K but a car like yours at that price seems better value so could put the wife out on the streets for a few nights to make up the difference. It was the sticker price - the OPC had no appetite for any negotiation on the price. I did manage to get a small increase on my part-ex over the initial bid but not much. I had looked at cars in the region of 42k in anticipation of negociating my part-ex value to get the purchase price down to the 39-40k mark but non of the 3 OPCs I viewed other cars at were budging. In the end I feel I got a better spec’d slightly older (ie first year of the gen 2) car by going a bit further afield and accepting the part-ex bid. If you can stretch to the extra I think it’s worth it for the facelift gen 2 cars.

BJT1Y said: If you can stretch to the extra I think it’s worth it for the facelift gen 2 cars. Many thanks. I can see your point. Thankfully I can scrape together enough for a facelifted car. I just need to get my head around spending as much. Luckily my wife is keen for me to get one so it's just a case of finding the right car.

I've been offered a 14 plate 3.0 Diesel S with 41K miles. As a PCP on 15K miles/year 48 months it's £560/month with £7K deposit and £12K GFV. 6 month warranty. That doesn't look a great deal to me. I think I'd rather pay cash at about £33K if they would go down to that. Perhaps the dealer doesn't want to finance and I'm not fussed other than it frees a chunk of cash I could find a home for elsewhere. The car looks immaculate which is what appeals.

No not a great deal at all. Especially considering they've stopped making V8 diesels due to....dieselgate.

Terrible deal! Is that at a Porsche dealer? If it is and it is AUP car, they come with 2 years warranty built into the price

George Smiley said: Terrible deal! Is that at a Porsche dealer? If it is and it is AUP car, they come with 2 years warranty built into the price No it's not. That's what makes it worse. The dealer offered the PCP as they had "interesting numbers" but they just looked like big ones to me. Is there any reason to fear diesels when I'll be doing 15-20K/year? I've not had a petrol daily for about 5 years now. A mate of mine has just gone back to petrol after a similar time and hates the short range petrol gives. A cash purchase might be more attractive if they want to actually sell the car.

They will be prepared to sit though December is a good time to deal. I'd go take a look around at Porsche you will get far better. I cash bought but mines a 4s. I'd looked at the diesels and sorry to say it, the v8 is just in a different league in all but out and out economy (btw on the long trips I am getting over 30 anyway....) If you are looking for a price gauge, look at an AUP price then take around 2k off (price of the warranty). But I would say that warranty is worth it even for something as silly as a coil pack (not an issue on the diesel!) a £45 part resulted in me in a courtesy car for over a week. The pre-delivery checks gave me 4 brand new tyres too, so its worth to look at porsche you may be surprised at their deals too.

I haven't been considering petrol as I would really like a facelifted car and the out and out torque of the diesel appeals. I'd started out thinking I could get a car for £30K, then for a facelifted car I'd need to go to £35K and if I now go to petrol, I'd need to go to over £40K as an AUC. I once had a Boxster as an AUC and yes, the warranty was really very good. They even refurbished the wheels to as new standard after 10 months of ownership and nothing was too much trouble for them. One of the best buying experiences I've ever had of admittedly a lacklustre car but I can blame them for that. I may have to accept that I'm either too poor or too tight to own a Panamera but maybe I just need to get used to the idea of spending more. Edited by Pistom on Tuesday 5th December 02:33

Im still looking.....want a yatching blue with pale interior face lift (300 bhp) diesel ideally.....i think they are holding up well pirie wise....if you dont want black or white they are hard to find

Absolutely cracking cars but very dependant on the type of driving you will be doing. I used to use my as a hack to run to the station every day which is about 15miles a day down very tight country lanes. It was just too big which is why I got rid of it in the end. That said it is the best mile muncher I have ever had and it was a fantastic drive. Would I have another? In a heartbeat but it would probably be a GTS or one of the new ones in diesel 4s guise!

Thank you everybody for your feedback and help. Having looked at a good few cars, I realised my budget wouldn't stretch to a Panamera in the condition I'd want so have shelved the idea of one for now. I appreciate the advise everyone has given. These really are great cars. Thanks again.

I am looking for one now - Want a 4S 4.8 V8 petrol... hoping for an early car around £30k... a couple of private ones available with remainder of warranty on them - but they havent quite ticked the right boxes - will keep on looking!

Sly you have mail

I managed to pick up a 12 plate gts with 58k for £30k last week,I love it!

That's excellent value

That's a steal for a GTS!

George, I did reply, but not sure if you recvd... Have sourced one now - Yachting blue. Collecting in the New year... Merry Christmas!

Very - well done!

DangerMonkey said: That's excellent value Ceramics too

No worries Sly, I missed the mail! Ceramics, GTS, 12 plate, 58k for 30k what category write off was it?

George Smiley said: No worries Sly, I missed the mail! Ceramics, GTS, 12 plate, 58k for 30k what category write off was it? ?

theres no way you got a Panamera GTS for that price spec and mileage

George Smiley said: theres no way you got a Panamera GTS for that price spec and mileage Ok then

darronwall said: George Smiley said: theres no way you got a Panamera GTS for that price spec and mileage Ok then Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true

Reading the comments re the boot depth, would a Labrador fit and be comfortable for a few hours?

No problem, particularly if you remove parcel-shelf/blind unit.

As said, there is no issues with those sized dogs. Porsche really nailed this as the most practical of cars for all situations! The AWD worked fantastic in the recent 2mm of snow

Just driven back in my S from North Italy in the foulest of weather. The car didn't miss a beat over the fairly icy Alps and in the torrential rain from Chambery to Calais (as well as Kent): I arrived home fairly fresh after 13 or so hours at the wheel.

DangerMonkey said: Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true I bet it won't get sold at £42k. When I traded in my 62 plate GTS back in June with nearly 50k miles, I was offered £34k p/x value by two non-Porsche dealers before eventually getting offered £40k p/x value by the two OPCs I called, but that was also against cars they'd had in stock for a while. The spec on mine was quite low other than having Bose and being GT Silver but the condition was good. It was on the market at Porsche Silverstone for ages, first at maybe £48.5k before being reduced to £46k or thereabouts...I've no idea what it sold for but I bet the trade price for the car would be around £30k now, maybe less.

Mosdef said: DangerMonkey said: Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true I bet it won't get sold at £42k. It doesn't need to be. If he picked it up at 30k then there's quite some margin

I thought I would add some thoughts from my Panamera search. I drove a couple of GTS / 4s and Turbo's (2009-2012) in the search for my Panamera. Specification is an absolute minefield with these cars and the poorly loaded ones hang round in the classifieds forever whereas the 'right' ones go very quickly. I've got the original price list here with all the options, it's something like 80 pages long! Check howmanyleft, Porsche didn't sell that many V8's in the UK so in the used market it really is a case of waiting carefully for the right car with the right options, don't rush into it. Get very used to looking at centre consoles in classifieds and working out the buttons.... Controversial this but coming from a powerful diesel saloon I was underwhelmed by the performance of the 4s, it simply wasn't quick enough. The GTS on the other hand is hilarious, it also solves the options list conundrum a little bit as the GTS is basically a well specified 4s as standard, it really engages, wills you to rev it out and the sports exhaust sounds amazing on the overrun. You don't get the hilarious pops etc that the GTS provides with the sports exhaust on the 4s and Turbo. PDK is awesome. The GTS probably shifted the best, it was the newest car though. In the end I went for a Turbo as more of the options become standard. It also has the torque at low revs which I have come to expect as was well the ability to merge the horizon your present position. It really is that quick. Steering is excellent on all of them, it really disguises the mass being lugged around behind you. Check the radiators at the front, like most Porsche's they can pick up road damage and in any case I would get the car inspected ideally before purchase. Ideal options list in my opinion, feel free to disagree Must haves? Sound system - at least Bose (standard on Turbo), Burmester even better Multi function steering wheel (why wasn't this standard?) Insulating Glass Interior carbon pack (must for me, wood trims ) Powerlift rear Sports Chrono Plus (standard on Turbo) Heated Steering Wheel (never had one before, fantastic) Heated seats (standard on Turbo) Sports seats / comfort memory / seat package (you can tell by the different pattern on the seat centres) Keyless go / entry and drive (standard on Turbo) Park assist (absolute must have, pain to maneuver otherwise, standard on Turbo. Later cars have a parking display on the PCM rather than just beeps) Adaptive Air Suspension (again, standard on Turbo. You could argue this is just another big bill waiting to go wrong....) Nice haves? Sports design kit (brings the front up to date on earlier cars) Adaptive lighting (headlights turn with the steering, standard on Turbo) Switchable sports exhaust (it's fun to rev that V8 at a standstill but doesn't make a tremendous difference inside on the move) Rear Seat Entertainment (TV screens) Sunroof (not something I'm fused about) 20" wheels / Turbo II alloys (the Panamera needs big wheels to look acceptable in my opinion) Not haves? Rear wiper (why why why waste money on this, it's completely pointless) Carbon brakes (PCCB's - get a stone caught and the potential bill could be large. As a general rule, 4s => Grey Calipers, Turbo => Red, PCCB's => Yellow ) 4-zone air con (it looks great as an option but reality we rarely use it) Electric sunroof Servicing Actually quite a cheap proposition as it's bi-annual / 20,000 miles although Porsche will probably badger you for 'check-ups' in between. The services alternate between minor and major. The interesting bit is this - lots of cars are temptingly for sale now at, coming up to, or older than the six year mark. Check the service history as at the 6 year mark it will likely be due the following - Service (probably a major) - Brake fluid (bi-annual like the service) - Air filter change (6yr requirement) - Drive Belt (6yr requirement) - PDK oil change and PDCC reservoir replacement (6yrs or 60,000 miles) - Spark plugs (6yrs or 60,000 miles? Can't remember off the top of my head, may be sooner) Tyres Look for the 'N', Porsche rating on the sidewall otherwise you won't be able to take out an OPC warranty without changing them if that's your thing. Otherwise standard fit tends to be continentals. Having said that I'm going to swap to Pilot Super Sports next having had good experiences of them but the Continentals are harder wearing. Warrenty Engine replacement or PDK could be huge bills so a) gamble / self insure as they are pretty reliable, not too many horror stories on the internet b) go comprehensive with OPC and 111 point check (£200 inspection + £1500ish/yr. Inspection is included in premium if it passes, I think you have to take out the warranty on the day) c) warranty direct or similar to cover the big mechanical bits (£70 inspection + £700ish/yr) Hope that helps, they are awesome beasts in which to transport the family Edited by DangerMonkey on Thursday 4th January 10:20

DangerMonkey said: Mosdef said: DangerMonkey said: Cheapest GTS on auto trader today is £42k. I'd be thinking of making a quick flip on that if true I bet it won't get sold at £42k. It doesn't need to be. If he picked it up at 30k then there's quite some margin Absolutely right IF anything like the quoting prices are being achieved but some of those GTSs on Autotrader have been there for 12 months plus and the vendors still haven't changed their prices. That is also ignoring any required expenditure on the car.

DangerMonkey's post sums up my experience of the car really well and having had a poorly specced 2012 GTS for 20k miles followed by a pretty much loaded 2014 Turbo S, the ownership experience is significantly different. The only differences I would add are: - 4 zone climate control is very useful if you have sensitive passengers/family members. I also think the rear console looks too blank without it. - vented seats are excellent and are a nice-to-have. The A/C can be left on a more gentle setting so the driver's hands don't get frozen but back and bum stay cool. - rear seat entertainment is so dated and inferior to an iPad as to be irrelevant in my experience. - PCCBs I'm still quite undecided on. I've never met anyone who has had them replaced and there is barely any mention of it on the web. The only replacements seem to be have been on tracked cars, which isn't really what the Panamera is intended for. I have grown to really enjoy the feel of the PCCBs on mine, the clean wheels are a bonus and I believe they improve the ride quality to some extend (970.2 has much better suspension than the 970). - the sports exhaust on a turbo s makes a big difference in the cabin, when switched on. I didn't find the same in the turbo. - blinds on rear windows and behind rear seats are fantastic if you can find a car with them. Regarding tyres, I had Pirellis on my GTS, which I changed for Yokohamas when they wore out. The Yokohamas were far better in terms of ride and noise. The Pirellis also cracked despite quite frequent (weekly/fortnightly) use. They were N rated and about £850 all in on the GTS. For what it's worth, I would not consider running one without a warranty, my GTS had so many suspension faults, not to mention issues with PDK and electrical gremlins. I saw one bill for something like £5.5k during my ownership, for replacement bushes and other parts, to cure creaking over speed bumps. Luckily it didn't cost me a penny but left me without the car for a week.

Agree with above (and DangerMonkey). No real problems and I'm running a Turbo as well (only a few K more than 4S, for +150BHP and air.). Rear blinds really good at cutting down on glare from following cars at night, plus ignoring hate-stares from those eating your dust :-) Michelin Pilot Sports are my tyre of choice (was actively dissuaded from using PS4S by Camskill/Michelin).

The only things I'd change on that list are: Rear wiper = bloody useful Nice to have = cooled seats (seriously welcomed addition) Yachting pack = lovely light interior and I like wood

The only thing I find an arse are the rear view is quite limited and on full luck under load it seems to want to skip its inside front wheel,I am not looking forward to my first multi story! Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel s te

darronwall said: The only thing I find an arse are the rear view is quite limited and on full luck under load it seems to want to skip its inside front wheel,I am not looking forward to my first multi story! Other than that my gts seems a great tool and the box is fantastic and pccb option is epic,makes the iron ones on my gt3 feel s te The size/blindspots take some getting used to. I had blind spot assist on my first one but not my current car and I do miss it. Ackermann effect is quite pronounced on Panameras in colder temperatures. Avoid multi storey car parks like the plague!

Mosdef said: The size/blindspots take some getting used to. I had blind spot assist on my first one but not my current car and I do miss it. Ackermann effect is quite pronounced on Panameras in colder temperatures. Avoid multi storey car parks like the plague! The sound in sport plus is quite epic tho

I’ve only just started to look into panameras - the cheapest GTS with an OPC at the moment is about 55k, a heavily specced 63 plate. What’s the lowest a slightly older one would go for from an OPC? Just trying to work out if a GTS might be a viable option over a 4.8 V8...

My lightly specified 62 GTS would have been mid £40s back in July, with 50k miles on it. I’m sure others will come to the market.

I'd rather go heavily speced than lightly, it really does make a big difference (no poking at the previous poster just spec makes the car)

George Smiley said: I'd rather go heavily speced than lightly, it really does make a big difference (no poking at the previous poster just spec makes the car) Couldn’t agree more. My lightly speced GTS was a very different car to my current almost fully speced Turbo S. Makes it far more enjoyable and luxurious.

I quite fancy a Panny GTS as a Daily Driver despite the fact we already have a relatively new Cayenne V8 S Diesel which my wife uses. Going to keep an eye on the market and see what comes up. Spec seems to be everything which is certainly the case with the Cayenne too. Info above is very helpful indeed!

Ackermann effect is this the same with all tyres? I have been surprised how noticeable it is on my turbo S. never had that on any previous car even with very low profile tyres.

It’s not so much the profile of the tyres - it’s the huge width of the tyres coupled with the long wheelbase that causes it. My Vantage used to do similar although nowhere near to the same extent... Given the space, I find if I start with full lock and progressively unwind as I go through the turn I can lesson it to a large degree.

I just got my Panamera with 20" wheels at the weekend. I am astounded at how bad the 'Ackerman Affect' is on it. Even turning into my drive at around 10-15mph, you feel the tyres jumping. It has been cold though, and as above, I think it is meant to be worse in the cold. But I have never had a car with such a pronounced amount of tyre skipping. Even my California hardly does it unless on full lock Was going to get it checked out - but by the sounds of it, it is quite normal. Big wheels and wide tyres.

Dr mojo said: Ackermann effect is this the same with all tyres? I have been surprised how noticeable it is on my turbo S. never had that on any previous car even with very low profile tyres. I think if you use winter tyres it makes a big difference...it certainly has on my Cayenne S. I suspect that Porsche specification "NO" tyres are made of a slighly stiffer (maybe that's not the right technical term) compound than other manufacturers tyres. Never had a similar issue on my old X5 for example and that had run flats.

Anyone with experience of winter driving on normal tyres? is the 4wd system any good or negated by wide and stiff tyres?

I'm sure to get corrected but in the UK I've had no need for Winter tyres, we seemingly survived before we became dependent on them for one or two days. I've used the 4s without any issues, the 4wd being great. Just don't spank it and be sensible. 4wd doesnt mean you can drive at normal speeds, well, unless you are in an X5/Q7 in which case you are able to drive at normal speeds and distance from the car in front....

'Ye canna ignore the laws of physics, Captain!'

Bennachie said: 'Ye canna ignore the laws of physics, Captain!' Engage 4wd traction beams Scotty...

Summer tyres don't work too well at stopping the car below freezing, though.

Judge your driving speed and conditions. Maybe I'm the stig, perhaps, but in almost 30 years of driving in all weather I have yet once found myself thinking I need a set of expensive winter tyres. They have become the must have, the go to item for all forums up and down the country. How did we live without them for so long? I am not suggesting Winter tyres are not for consideration but I'm still needing a lot of convincing. As I said, perhaps I'm a motoring God without realising this but I've driven cars half the weight of the panamera with more power than a turbo S through winters and they were on summer tyres. Of course there were times I couldnt take them out, but the AWD system in the Panamera would make it even harder for me to consider winters. The car behaved impeccably in the world ending snow storms we recently had but I still drove it sensibly.

George Smiley said: Judge your driving speed and conditions. Maybe I'm the stig, perhaps, but in almost 30 years of driving in all weather I have yet once found myself thinking I need a set of expensive winter tyres. They have become the must have, the go to item for all forums up and down the country. How did we live without them for so long? I am not suggesting Winter tyres are not for consideration but I'm still needing a lot of convincing. As I said, perhaps I'm a motoring God without realising this but I've driven cars half the weight of the panamera with more power than a turbo S through winters and they were on summer tyres. Of course there were times I couldnt take them out, but the AWD system in the Panamera would make it even harder for me to consider winters. The car behaved impeccably in the world ending snow storms we recently had but I still drove it sensibly. I agree. I've been driving for almost forty years without them. I only have them now because I'm legally required to do so when in my part of Italy between November and May. It does mean I'm a tad brisker on the motorway in wet weather than I would be otherwise and my 20" Spider summer wheels look less careworn than comparable wheels on earlier cars which soaked up salt and grit for the six months of the year that my summer wheels now rest.

My first winter with the GTS and the car behaved brilliantly in the slightly more significant snowfall in Cheltenham before Christmas. Really no problem at all. I’m on the PZeros which I don’t think are necessarily the best tyre but they’re what we’re on the car. I have thought about winters but only because the front crabbing/Ackerman effect is very pronounced in the cold weather until the tyres have warmed up and I had wondered if winters may reduce this. Otherwise, brilliant, like every other aspect of the car (except the fuel consumption!)

Till135 said: Otherwise, brilliant, like every other aspect of the car (except the fuel consumption!) Whats the GTS like for consumption? I bet the problem is that exhaust note encourages you to thrash it My turbo seems to give me about 20mpg pottering about / 25 mixed driving / 30+ on motorway cruises

I’ve done 6000 miles so far, taking it to 9500 total. Around town is 17mpg, 20 if you’re lucky. I think I got 27 on a gentle motorway run but realistically a long run gets about 26. Ironically however of all the cars I’ve had, it gives me the longest range due to the huge fuel tank! Overall I honestly don’t care about the fuel as it seems proportionate to the car and because of having a great range. It’s only slightly worse than my 2013 Defender when I had it though ! But the exhaust..............it does sound so nice 👍🏻

Pretty much the same as the poster above, I regularly got 25mpg+ on longish runs, even just over 30mpg on a very long run through France in the rain with the cruise at 130km/h. London driving was in the teens, depending on traffic conditions. Very impressive economy in my view but as has already been suggested, the real benefit is the long distance between fill ups. The Turbo S is thirstier, as one would expect. London driving figures are probably the same as the GTS and on the open road the car is more likely to average 20-ish mpg with 25mpg on longer runs if I’m not pushing on. So, I still get around 400 miles or so to a tank and there isn’t much difference whether I drive like a vicar or a reasonably well behaved villain. If I put my foot down a few times, the fuel needle can go into relative freefall.

Till135 said: My first winter with the GTS and the car behaved brilliantly in the slightly more significant snowfall in Cheltenham before Christmas. Really no problem at all. I’m on the PZeros which I don’t think are necessarily the best tyre but they’re what we’re on the car. I have thought about winters but only because the front crabbing/Ackerman effect is very pronounced in the cold weather until the tyres have warmed up and I had wondered if winters may reduce this. Otherwise, brilliant, like every other aspect of the car (except the fuel consumption!) Funnily enough, I've just changed over to summer tyres, which I had last year, so not new, and the Ackerman thing is there for the first few minutes. More worryingly, I'm experiencing the odd axle tramp (while doing nothing notably exotic)... The last time, I was accelerating away from a roundabout turnoff over an expansion strip and had a bit of a hop, skip and jump. Anybody else?

Axle tramp in a four wheel drive vehicle should be pretty much impossible I would think. Now that the weather has warmed up the car is spot on again. With such a long cold winter I’m thinking of possibly buying a “winter car” come October so that I don’t have to live with the same again for another winter. I did get some of the worst axle tramp for years recently though ......... in a C63s AMG. Terrible in damp and cool conditions

Till135 said: Axle tramp in a four wheel drive vehicle should be pretty much impossible I would think. Now that the weather has warmed up the car is spot on again. With such a long cold winter I’m thinking of possibly buying a “winter car” come October so that I don’t have to live with the same again for another winter. I did get some of the worst axle tramp for years recently though ......... in a C63s AMG. Terrible in damp and cool conditions Thanks. Mine's only an S, so only RWD. I replicated exactly the same phenomenon this morning at the same spot, so it's not a one off. At the very least, I'll need to show caution leaving that particular roundabout.

Update with thoughts. Don't buy one out of the dealer network or without a solid warranty. I still love mine but its been in and out recently with a spate of faults that it seems to be pointing now to an issue with the loom - somewhere. I'm in talks about rejecting/sending back and normally would not have an issue - trouble is, the car is too good to easily give up on in regards to its total package of luxury/practicality that knowing what would replace it is difficult but I will be following the path of returning for now.

I have heard of one Panamera needing a whole new wiring loom, for info. Bit scary, as mine was a private sale, but it has been faultless.

George Smiley said: Update with thoughts. Don't buy one out of the dealer network or without a solid warranty. I still love mine but its been in and out recently with a spate of faults that it seems to be pointing now to an issue with the loom - somewhere. I'm in talks about rejecting/sending back and normally would not have an issue - trouble is, the car is too good to easily give up on in regards to its total package of luxury/practicality that knowing what would replace it is difficult but I will be following the path of returning for now. Couldn't agree more with this. My previous GTS had all sorts of mechanical and electrical issues and my Turbo S is only marginally better, having just had a PDCC leak and malfunctioning sports exhaust fixed (it was stuck in the quiet setting). I bought both cars through OPCs and all claims were made under the associated warranties with absolutely no hassle, saving me thousands (the suspension replacement alone on my GTS was something like £5k - it solved the creaks!). As George Smiley says, the cars have their faults but are too good to give up. I can't help but wonder whether the QP GTS I looked at would have been more reliable but then again, it doesn't have 4wd and doesn't get a great write up. Regarding the Ackerman effect, both of my cars suffered it with the Pirellis they came with and it got worse with wear. I changed to Yokohamas (fitted by Porsche) on both cars and the effect was far less pronounced. They grip extremely well and are less noisy. Wear wise, they seem to be as good as Pirellis.

Mosdef said: Regarding the Ackerman effect, both of my cars suffered it with the Pirellis they came with and it got worse with wear. I changed to Yokohamas (fitted by Porsche) on both cars and the effect was far less pronounced. They grip extremely well and are less noisy. Wear wise, they seem to be as good as Pirellis. Ackerman effect is definitely tyre and temperature related from my experience with our Cayenne. On winter tyres we don't get it at all and on summer tyres it's more noticeable at the start of winter before winter tyres get put on the car. Mid summer I don't notice it. I remember in the Panny test car I had last Christmas it was really bad at low speeds...I actually thought the car had a fault as I pulled out of the parking space at the OPC. Never experienced it before.

Anyone know the price of a 2 year extended warranty & did you negotiate ?

POORCARDEALER said: Anyone know the price of a 2 year extended warranty & did you negotiate ? From memory so don't quote me... when you buy an AUC car there is a 2k premium included with the mandatory sale of an AUC policy. Be aware though, any after market parts may result in a claim being refused even if it is not related - block restrictions don't apply to these policies.

Cheib said: Mosdef said: Regarding the Ackerman effect, both of my cars suffered it with the Pirellis they came with and it got worse with wear. I changed to Yokohamas (fitted by Porsche) on both cars and the effect was far less pronounced. They grip extremely well and are less noisy. Wear wise, they seem to be as good as Pirellis. Ackerman effect is definitely tyre and temperature related from my experience with our Cayenne. On winter tyres we don't get it at all and on summer tyres it's more noticeable at the start of winter before winter tyres get put on the car. Mid summer I don't notice it. I remember in the Panny test car I had last Christmas it was really bad at low speeds...I actually thought the car had a fault as I pulled out of the parking space at the OPC. Never experienced it before. I've just ditched the N spec continental sport contacts that came with my panny turbo for Michelin PS4S all round and now there is basically no Ackerman effect whatsoever. This time of year it's normally at its most pronounced but suprisingly the juddering pulling out of my estate has now been replaced by smoothness and silence Very happy with the improved grip and noise levels too. N.B. I was planning switching to pilot super sports after previous good experience of these tyres but the PS4S is the now the flagship model / updated version of this tyre. Unfortunately they aren't available in N spec yet (I suspect Porsche will never bother to approve it ) but it seemed pointless putting tyres based on research from 10 years ago on the car. I'll come back to this thread and update when they wear in a bit more and if it returns (and if I remember).

Hi I see that TechArt can swap the steering wheel click gear changer (which I hate) on a Panamera to flappy paddles, their website seems to be in Germany, anyone know of a uk branch? So far I’ve been quoted £1800 by aPorsche specialist to solve the issue by swapping for completely different steering wheel. Thanks

What miles did you end up doing in this before selling? Was it reliable after 150k + miles? matfinch said: I own a 2011 Panamera Diesel, i’ve had it for 2 and a bit years, and I do 25k miles a year. It’s just passed the 100k and looks as fresh as when i bought it. It’s dark grey with grey interior. It’s my daily drive, doing a 60 mile round trip daily and then longer runs at least once a week. It’s a superb every day car, comfortable and practical enough, but still feeling special and fun. Like some of the other posts, i have swapped the wheels for a set of 20” which look a lot better than the weedy 18” standard rims. Fuel economy is excellent, mid 40s average, and 50+ on a long run. I’ve had no mechanical issues at all, and servicing has just been usual stuff like dics and pads, tyres, air-con recharge, PCM software update. It has a variable service interval on the OBC, mine seems to require a minor service/oil change once a year, and a major every 2 years. Things i like; The ride, comfort, driving position - perfect for 6hr drives! The handling and (relative) sportiness on twisty B-roads. Switch off the PCM and its a hoot! Engine and 8-speed box work welll together, performance is sufficient for a daily drive, see the Chris Harris video at launch. Radar guided cruise control is delight on M1 traffic. Carries 4 people plus luggage in great comfort. Build quality is excellent, after 100k miles it still feels tight and no rattles. Things I like less; Spec is very important. The base spec is very mean, I wish I had bought a car with a few more options, like Bose sound and memory seats! The car is wide, and whilst i am use to driving it now, it can still be tricky to park and avoid the dreaded trolley dings from other people! The boot isn’t that practical, whilst its deep, you loose a lot of height due the roof line. Overall, i would thorough recommend an early Panamera diesel as a daily drive. I plan to run mine for another 3 years and 200k miles. I’ll keep you posted on how that goes!