Michael Fassbender: Road to Le Mans - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Anyone else watching this? First episode was 11th October on Porsche's YouTube channel. The films track the progress of Michael Fassbender, as he learns to race the 991 RSR in a bid to race in the 2020 Le Mans 24 hour. Interesting to watch. I remember him being pretty handy in the Top Gear Kia C'eed (third overall behind Rowan Atkinson and Matt LeBlanc). It seems a pretty honest account of how a (reasonably good) rookie might try to find their feet in racing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBbAfDyC8f8

Thanks for posting. He looks to be a reasonable rookie, fun to watch & feel for him in that first 'd' oh' moment, must have wanted the ground to swallow him up!

Yes, it's quite brutal at times. Fair play to him for allowing it to be shot like this. Zero 'Hollywood' bulls t. I posted because even though I was looking out for this, I missed its release.

Thanks for the link. Not a massive fan of Fassbender, but this is very watchable.

thats great. thanks for sharing.

Thats great, I like him!

bunchofkeys said: very watchable. It's interesting; you see the difference between being someon who can drive pretty well on a track and being a racer - the difficulty of learning racecraft. There's quite a refreshing degree of humility and honesty, on behalf of both the driver and also the team. (and, I guess, Porsche too).

Interesting, will have to go find this later

The Elephant in the room is that not everyone has several million pounds in their back pocket or means to raise it as a complete novice to get there. It’s an interesting watch but bear in mind it’s the easiest possible golden ticket route. Guys with far more talent never get there. That’s motor racing I suppose.

Steve Rance said: The Elephant in the room is that not everyone has several million pounds in their back pocket or means to raise it as a complete novice to get there. It’s an interesting watch but bear in mind it’s the easiest possible golden ticket route. Guys with far more talent never get there. That’s motor racing I suppose. Yes, this is true. There is no doubt he's starting from the ground up, but just to get there requires a degree of luck and privilege. But then access to money and knowing the right people has always been part of motorsport. It still makes for an interesting watch.

Steve Rance said: The Elephant in the room is that not everyone has several million pounds in their back pocket or means to raise it as a complete novice to get there. It’s an interesting watch but bear in mind it’s the easiest possible golden ticket route. Guys with far more talent never get there. That’s motor racing I suppose. Thus it ever was! He isn't the first "celeb" to do this either. Its not really the elephant in the room more of a hard reality of racing, anyone who does it, if they were honest would do the exact same thing given the budget, I would start tomorrow if I had the money as I know I don't have what it takes on talent alone (I can considered to be average at best!) Back to the video, nice watch, was impressed with his work in the wet!

Episode 2 is on there as well if people weren't aware

geeks said: Thus it ever was! He isn't the first "celeb" to do this either. Its not really the elephant in the room more of a hard reality of racing, anyone who does it, if they were honest would do the exact same thing given the budget, I would start tomorrow if I had the money as I know I don't have what it takes on talent alone (I can considered to be average at best!) Back to the video, nice watch, was impressed with his work in the wet! Yep, it’s the way of the world.

bunchofkeys said: Thanks for the link. Not a massive fan of Fassbender, but this is very watchable. Thanks from me too. Is there a film genre with actors making films about them racing their own cars (Steve McQueen must feature in this list somehow, Paul Newman too)? I really liked Eric Bana's film about him racing his Ford Falcon. Patrick Dempsey seems to have done pretty well racing in various series with a Porsche too, though I don't think that's been made into a film.

130R said: Episode 2 is on there as well if people weren't aware Without giving anything away, the incident in that race reminded me, exactly, of trying to learn to race on Gran Turismo years ago.

Looks rather expensive, but good fun

Don't see how this is an elephant in the room. Watching someone self made spend their own money to do something they enjoy vs Watching someone's parents spend their own money to live vicariously through their kids If I'm lucky enough to put away enough cash over the next few years, i'll do this too.

There will be drivers on the grid that have neither. I have a little more respect for them. Not all racing drivers are or were fortunate enough to be in that position but many have their careers ended by being driven into by drivers with huge budgets fast tracking in formulae that they do not have the experience to race in. I’m not deriding Mr Fassbender at all, but for many drivers with more talent struggling to find their way to a drive at Lemans his circumstances are very much an Elephant in the room.

Steve Rance said: There will be drivers on the grid that have neither. I have a little more respect for them. Not all racing drivers are or were fortunate enough to be in that position but many have their careers ended by being driven into by drivers with huge budgets fast tracking in formulae that they do not have the experience to race in. I’m not deriding Mr Fassbender at all, but for many drivers with more talent struggling to find their way to a drive at Lemans his circumstances are very much an Elephant in the room. I appreciate your point, but he is an actor and that is not the easiest job in the world at which to become successful - there are plenty of hard knocks. We don't yet really know how much talent he actually has. He may not make it to LM at all. It's only an elephant in the room if it's not acknowledged, and I don't think this is the case in this instance.

I’m interested in how competitive a ‘normal’ person can be with the right amount of training and support. (And time / money obviously) It may or may not have anything to do with me dreaming about how I’d have spent that £170m lottery win a couple of weeks ago... Could somebody like me, who’s done a few track days (but is certainly no racing driver) have ended up racing in a GT series and not actually be driving round at the back 5 seconds a lap off the pace.

Steve Rance said: There will be drivers on the grid that have neither. I have a little more respect for them. Not all racing drivers are or were fortunate enough to be in that position but many have their careers ended by being driven into by drivers with huge budgets fast tracking in formulae that they do not have the experience to race in. Very very well said Steve. Happens a lot in Blancpain. I’d certainly be pretty hacked off if some rich bloke ended my season on the first weekend because he made a stupid mistake that he can easily afford to make.

I thought was very honest. I liked that mistakes were there, admitted and described. I have driven this and the track in Ep2 and am no brilliant driver. It gives a proper perspective on the challenges for a new driver.

anonymous said: [redacted] But the question PaulM3 raises is kind of the crux of why it's so watchable - this could be many of us on here taking this journey. it's very interesting to see it pan out. Sometimes, age is an advantage. I've always been good at taking advice and coaching, but somehow, the older I get, the faster and better it 'clicks'. In a way, I've also got more fearless, because I've simply done more (daft & dangerous) stuff. It's probably also because I've been through that mid-life consciousness (no, not crisis!) of realising you are closer to death than birth, that life is not a rehearsal, and you'd best JFDI. There's also the complex issue of how other skills compliment driving. I mountain bike, a lot, so fitness, stamina and also seat-of-the-pants handling have some beneficial cross-over. I can see how an actor might be able to key into an innate and highly developed ability to memorise scripts, in order to learn circuits and strategies that a good team and coach provide.

anonymous said: [redacted] It depends at what level one is going to be trying to compete too and type of car. Paul_M3 stated 'gt series' - could be GT-AM which one could presumably with a fair chunk of budget and dedication get competitive, or Pro-Am by hiring a very good pro as the co driver.....even if that person probably wouldn't be anywhere close in trying to comparison to GT-Pro. And GT race cars are pretty heavily assisted with traction control and ABS so it very much helps to narrow the gap compared to say something like a high powered single seater.

You could make an argument that younger guys have an edge because they throw all caution to the wind, whereas someone getting on in years may well have a wife, kids, etc that may, not always, be in the back of their mind. At this level even the slightest hesitation will end up costing seconds. I found the linked video a great watch and am keen to binge watch the rest when I get chance, and to be frank I wouldn't bother watching if it it was an unknown guy (to me) there on merit. The fact it is Fassbender, an actor, doing this which one presumes he has little experience to call on is what makes it appealing to a layperson like me.

I know the German Sports Cup quite well - whilst it is not uber-competitive, qualifying in the top ten is not that easy there. Given that he does not know the track I think he's done quite well!! Also, one car damaged per Weekend seems to be the par for the series Good watch!

anonymous said: [redacted] ‘Seat time’. If you have enough of it, then you will be better. Rowing, cycling, running and swimming for example require a small amount of skill and a huge amount of ‘seat time’, dedication and application. Ball sports require a certain amount of natural ability, then this can be coached, nurtured to the next level. Take tennis as above. Some are coached and play like they have been. Djokovic being one. Federer on the other hand has phenomenal natural timing and ability. McEnroe too. Seat time is the dividing factor in motor racing driven by money, dedicated parents, luck, a lack of fear and utter selfishness in the pursuit of your goal. You give 10 random guys a tennis racquet and very few will be able to bang a topspin backhand down the line consistently within 3 months of intensive coaching. Give the same 10 a Caterham, with the same intensive training on track, and 90% will be right up there in the Academy Championship, within half that time IMV, and pushing to the next level.

Robbo66 said: ‘Seat time’. If you have enough of it, then you will be better. Rowing, cycling, running and swimming for example require a small amount of skill and a huge amount of ‘seat time’, dedication and application. And it is even more complex than that (s per commercial pilot's regulations) in terms of how much seat time, time since last seat time, variety and quality of seat time. A very brief and easy to explain example; all the dry track time in the world is not necessarily going to give you the edge in a wet race, over a (perhaps not as proficient, on paper) driver who'd had the luck to run there the week before in the wet.

Digga said: A very brief and easy to explain example; all the dry track time in the world is not necessarily going to give you the edge in a wet race, over a (perhaps not as proficient, on paper) driver who'd had the luck to run there the week before in the wet. That's a good point. Having been a passenger with a young racing driver around a wet Spa made me realize that no amount of seat time would give me his natural ability for car control that's needed to drive fast in the wet. That's when natural talent takes over.

boxsey said: That's a good point. Having been a passenger with a young racing driver around a wet Spa made me realize that no amount of seat time would give me his natural ability for car control that's needed to drive fast in the wet. That's when natural talent takes over. I don't think so. He'll know the track, driven in the wet countless times and be confident there. All about seat time, and with enough of it, you'll be right up there.

I think to a point you can take a driver to reasonable Club level with some tuition but going up through the formuale the gaps open up very quickly and by the time you are at Semi pro/pro level there is a big void between that and Club level and that is usually down to ability and talent. I spent 2 years instructing at Brands Hatch and 20+ trying to help team mates find time in Racing Cars. Even with modern data logging equipment most drivers couldnt find extra time. The only driver that I worked with that kind of ability was Glen Geddy. You can get a novice driver going pretty well with seat time and good instruction but the last second or two is down to Darwin. I had a team mate in Formula Ford who's father gave him a £2million budget to get to F1. He spent days testing and hiring days with the best instructors of the time - never got in the top half of grid and his Dad pulled the plug before he squandered the lot. I think to be a quick driver you need exceptional balance, hand eye co-ordination, peripheral vision and the ability to 'get in front of the car'. In other words to drive to threashold subconsciously so that the conscious mind is freed up to strategise on adapting your driving style to suit changes in all vaiables (optimising tyre resource, weather, mechanical changes etc..) and planning attack and defence. Driving at 10/10ths and being able to recover from 11/10th is just the begining. Some of these will come with seat time but some wont.

Steve, I think that the costs of making it in circuit racing are so high that if you've a lot of motorsport talent but don't have access to the required funding, you've probably got a better shot of progressing in rallying or if on two wheels, Road Racing. In those disciplines I think talent can carry you a good bit further before the limitations of finances become a serious issue. Circuit racing has always been expensive. Remember that Stirling Moss' father bought him a Maserati 250F in 1954 - not exactly a shoestring enterprise. My personal all-time favourite F1 driver, and statistically the most successful, Juan Manuel Fangio, was funded throughout his F1 career by the Argentine Government of Juan Peron. I think the Michael Fassbender videos are really informative & unvarnished as to the challenges facing a rookie. When you think about, making it as a headline feature film actor in Hollywood is virtually as precarious as making it on o the grid in F1. I recall an interviewer many years ago asking Steve Guttenberg why he hadn't been in many films recently. He replied that he was being selective as he was fortunate enough to be able to do so. As a counterpoint he said that there are 100,000 actors in the U.S. with an Equity Card and only 3000 of them earned $60,000 pa or more!

Steve Rance said: You can get a novice driver going pretty well with seat time and good instruction but the last second or two is down to Darwin. Love this quote! Watching this thread with interest. (As someone with zero talent but who managed to not disgrace himself - for an amateur - after a LOT of seat time, and is now back to being embarrassingly awful having had almost no seat time for some years).

Thanks for posting OP, really interesting and MF seems very normal and likeable.

Also interesting to note the points above about maturity and state of mind. When I do the occasional track day these days, I leave a fair bit in reserve - not just because I know my skills are not what they used to be, but also because I'd like to go home at the end of the day to the wife and kids with a big smile and minor rather than major wallet surgery. 10 years ago in club racing I would happily take my brain out before a race. A couple of crashes had enough of a financial and psychological impact to make me quit.

'If you want to be good at it, 10,000 hours'...speaks volumes

Robbo66 said: 'If you want to be good at it, 10,000 hours'...speaks volumes Exactly. While it's true that you need some basic "ability" (rather than talent) such as hand, foot, eye co-ordination, the high performance only comes from those thousands of hours of quality practice.

Steve Rance said: The Elephant in the room is that not everyone has several million pounds in their back pocket or means to raise it as a complete novice to get there. It’s an interesting watch but bear in mind it’s the easiest possible golden ticket route. Guys with far more talent never get there. That’s motor racing I suppose. I've only watched the first episode but, yes, that was the overriding feeling I couldn't shake. Especially as the chap giving him instruction almost looked a bit uncomfortable to be there. Kelvin Fletcher pointed that out when he was on The One Show last week sat next to Jenson Button. Seemed to fully appreciate that he'd only got a drive in the first place because of his profile. But then, having said all that, if I suddenly became famous tomorrow, I'm sure I'd engineer/jump at a similar opportunity.

Penguinracer said: Steve, I think that the costs of making it in circuit racing are so high that if you've a lot of motorsport talent but don't have access to the required funding, you've probably got a better shot of progressing in rallying or if on two wheels, Road Racing. In those disciplines I think talent can carry you a good bit further before the limitations of finances become a serious issue. Circuit racing has always been expensive. Remember that Stirling Moss' father bought him a Maserati 250F in 1954 - not exactly a shoestring enterprise. My personal all-time favourite F1 driver, and statistically the most successful, Juan Manuel Fangio, was funded throughout his F1 career by the Argentine Government of Juan Peron. I think the Michael Fassbender videos are really informative & unvarnished as to the challenges facing a rookie. When you think about, making it as a headline feature film actor in Hollywood is virtually as precarious as making it on o the grid in F1. I recall an interviewer many years ago asking Steve Guttenberg why he hadn't been in many films recently. He replied that he was being selective as he was fortunate enough to be able to do so. As a counterpoint he said that there are 100,000 actors in the U.S. with an Equity Card and only 3000 of them earned $60,000 pa or more! Yes, I agree To race in the Formula Ford junior championship in the mid 80's was £1000 per race plus accident damage - if you were run by a propper team. Probably twice that or more now. A Carrera cup car is around £5k per hour to run at top level. Supercup will be more because of the ceramics. As said earlier, to apply the 10,000 hour rule to those figures is absurdly expensive.

garyhun said: Exactly. While it's true that you need some basic "ability" (rather than talent) such as hand, foot, eye co-ordination, the high performance only comes from those thousands of hours of quality practice. Thats the key. Some drivers (very few) are able to go quickly with very little seat time. But I would not agree that only some basic ability is needed. There is a high degree of natural talent needed to be successful. As in almost all sports, there is a lot more to it that first appears and the best exponents of it just make it look easy by making essential imputs and decisions at precisely the correct moment again and again. The vast majority of drivers will simply never be capable of achieving that.

Steve Rance said: garyhun said: Exactly. While it's true that you need some basic "ability" (rather than talent) such as hand, foot, eye co-ordination, the high performance only comes from those thousands of hours of quality practice. Thats the key. Some drivers (very few) are able to go quickly with very little seat time. But I would not agree that only some basic ability is needed. There is a high degree of natural talent needed to be successful. As in almost all sports, there is a lot more to it that first appears and the best exponents of it just make it look easy by making essential imputs and decisions at precisely the correct moment again and again. The vast majority of drivers will simply never be capable of achieving that. There’s actually a fair bit of research that’s gone into elite performance in multiple disciplines, from music, the arts, sport and many others, and there’s no proof of any underlying innate talent. There is proof of certain characteristics giving an advantage, such as reflex speed or spatial awareness for example, but nothing that you could describe as talent. But I digress and don’t want to get into a PH argument

I’m guessing we’re all probably in violent agreement

anonymous said: [redacted] I had similar thoughts. I did make me think that any other mere mortal might not have been dumped in at that level. But, we don’t get any insight to his previous experience. It’s a marketing exercise at the end of the day, I’d be surprised if he was paying the bills personally, could be wrong ? And talking of bills, the one after the Massive rear ender under yellow would have been eye watering. It’s a great watch non the less and he’s hanging in there mostly.

when the Too Gear team entered the Silverstone 24 hour race in a BMW it made great viewing but they were completely out of their depth and quickly became a danger to everyone. During the night Richard Hammond pulled across Michael Vergers in the lead Car as he was lapping him. The Mosler limped back to the pits but retired later. We finished 4th after lapping the Top Gear car 221 times. Lapping a car driven by incapable and in experienced drivers in the dark with closing speeds of close to 100mph is a risk to the driver and the car. When you are strapped into the driving seat bearing down on a car like that you are taking an unnecessary risk for not only you but also the team and sponsors. I’m not trying to drag this thread down, just trying to add some insight from a driver’s perspective.

anonymous said: [redacted] I was thinking somewhat along these lines. But I guess there would be little PR if he were competing in low level club racing. He looks physically very fit. But in a Cup car with aero and huge mechanical grip. Powered steering, traction control, abs braking system and air conditioning. The car setup by a works team. Most of the hard work has already been done for him. Just learning stuff parrot fashion does not make you a good racer. It will make you faster. To ultimately be very fast you have to have the gift of being able to race in slow motion. This is the pure natural ability part that no one can teach you. Mr Rance will know exactly what I mean. To carry more speed into a corner than you should be carrying and to be able to sort it all out in the corner. You can only do this if your brain has the ability process this in slow motion and not real time.

anonymous said: [redacted] As you say it’s probably typical at almost every level, the buy in price just gets bigger. Very erudite posts by the way, an interesting take on things. Also Steve’s perspective on the Silverstone race is illuminating. Just goes to show really how damaging it can be for people to just buy their way in, it’s not only the legitimacy of it that is a problem, they’re mixing it with pros at significant speeds.

Regardless of whether he should be there or not, what a great production! YT content has certainly come along some. I'm looking forward to the next one. Best thing I've watched in ages.

SRT Hellcat said: He looks physically very fit. But in a Cup car with aero and huge mechanical grip. Yes, up close, the thing that always strikes you most is quite how strong [o]and[/i] lean most of these young guys and girls are who drive professionally. SRT Hellcat said: To ultimately be very fast you have to have the gift of being able to race in slow motion. This is the pure natural ability part that no one can teach you. Mr Rance will know exactly what I mean. To carry more speed into a corner than you should be carrying and to be able to sort it all out in the corner. You can only do this if your brain has the ability process this in slow motion and not real time. This was something Schumacher used to talk about. Easy when your resting heart rate is 30 something beats per minute, which comes back to your point above. It also dials into the experience thing too. I'm not much cop on track, but I've had the privilege of being driven by some very handy drivers and sometimes you get a glimpse of that sixth sense at work. Racing just ups the number of parameters though. I keep plugging away with the MTB, because I think it keeps my reactions sharp and my head cool. I figure if can sort out the bike getting sideways in mud on the take-off ramp of a 10 foot gap jump, at night (don't ask), without crashing then it might just translate in some way.

anonymous said: [redacted] Agreed. But if you are a novice driving at that level it’s easy to quickly run out of mental capacity as things change or go wrong. Then you are a potential liability to other cars around you. Actually I think that Michael did quite a good job and I’m not deriding his efforts at all.

Robbo66 said: boxsey said: That's a good point. Having been a passenger with a young racing driver around a wet Spa made me realize that no amount of seat time would give me his natural ability for car control that's needed to drive fast in the wet. That's when natural talent takes over. I don't think so. He'll know the track, driven in the wet countless times and be confident there. All about seat time, and with enough of it, you'll be right up there. 50/50 imo I have seen people back in my Lotus days do 20 track days a year , year on year and have training every one, they are still not fast !! You need a bit of natural talent. you also need seat time they go hand in hand.

The highs and lows of racing! Need to follow the female side of multi tasking. Racing is far from just being able to drive fast,youth gives you reaction time that can be instinctive. Age gives you experience to anticipate before you need to react. That famous question about how old to learn to race, a friend answered this for me,if 18 year olds could fly and fight in a spitfire,to teach them to race should be a doddle

I've just watched all 3 episodes. So I guess his new nickname is Michael Crashbender....

Harris_I said: I've just watched all 3 episodes. So I guess his new nickname is Michael Crashbender.... Yes. As soon as he lost that thing through the flat corner, I instinctively knew what'd happened. Done similar myself.

Rick101 said: Regardless of whether he should be there or not, what a great production! YT content has certainly come along some. I'm looking forward to the next one. Best thing I've watched in ages. Just found these, agreed, the production is very good. Seems pretty out of his depth, I assume that's to be expected to a large extent. I wonder how much he's done before this.

It looks as though Fassbender has a fair bit of track experience, 120 hours in a Ferrari Challenge car as of mid 2018 including a win https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michael-fas...

...and just when he thought it was all over...his instructor pulls out a "spare" 991 Carrera Cup...he didn't know he had! Nice problem to have!

Maybe I didn't follow the timeline right, but I thought they surprised him with a spare car... twice?!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yeah, you’re right, but also I think you have to just bury those thoughts because otherwise you pretty much can’t watch any “reality” TV. Like how on The Apprentice they do pick up shots of the recently fired contestant leaving with their suitcase, etc.

Just watched the first 3 episodes. Compulsive viewing actually. Are they really intending to give him a full works drive alongside the likes of Kevin Estre?

browngt3 said: Just watched the first 3 episodes. Compulsive viewing actually. Are they really intending to give him a full works drive alongside the likes of Kevin Estre? Probably not in the same car, I guess. Talking of privilege, Estre, born in 1988 (that fact alone makes me feel very old!) began karting in 2001. I've seen him driving a 991 GT3 RS around Nurburgring on the Manthey track day and his pace and style are stunning., but even being that good, you need a bit of help and a bit of luck I guess.

Been waiting for this

I’ve been waiting an age for this to appear. Watched episode 1 and 2 so far, utterly brilliant as usual.

But has he got his camping tickets sorted with the ACO yet?!

I'm still pretty enthralled with the production quality of these, has anyone seen anything on the cameras, lenses, editing, etc?

pete said: But has he got his camping tickets sorted with the ACO yet?! And bought his beer paddling pool?

Highly recommended Great stuff - really enjoyable

Felt conflicted for Felipe Laser; must be a real feather in a driver’s cap to graduate from silver to gold classification, but gutted that it’s broken up the team. Him and Leitz (stunningly talented driver) we’re a great support for Fassbender. It looked like Felipe is racing a prototype class car in the colours of the late Sabine Schmit’s husband, Claus Abelene’s team.

Digga said: Felt conflicted for Felipe Laser; must be a real feather in a driver’s cap to graduate from silver to gold classification, but gutted that it’s broken up the team. Him and Leitz (stunningly talented driver) we’re a great support for Fassbender. It looked like Felipe is racing a prototype class car in the colours of the late Sabine Schmit’s husband, Claus Abelene’s team. I don’t really know the details and what’s required to get rankings, and these documentaries always try to dramatisise and tell a story, but Leitz always came across a step above. Felipe, nice guy, but seemed a gulf in maturity, pace, temperament and leadership compared to Leitz. I hope Filipe does well and continues to grow, but for him I feel more time with Leitz would improve him, was he promoted before he was ready? I’m a big Leitz fan. I don’t see Felipe as close to Leitz (gold-plat). Super happy Felipe got a good drive though. Definitely like the guy and seeing how he’s grown through the seasons, but not convinced he’s the capability to ever match a Leitz. It was, I think, in season 2 when fassbender was in a strop about not enough seat time, but then bottled wanting to qualy. Filipe with seat time then had a melt down about not wanting to qualy and, “fassbender can frikkin’ do it himself” ”. A lack of maturity and a bit of petulance showed from Felipe. I like think his concern was that in his position as a silver looking for gold, that a weak qualy performance was worse for his career than letting fassbender qualy poorly, that would make sense. But he should have said that, rather than being a dick to an overloaded and scared fassbender…. …Then the big dog. Leitz hopped in with no seat time at all, first Lap of the weekend in quali. P1. Hold my beer, kids. Heroic episode that and really interesting team dynamics and interpersonal pressures. Filipe did show his limitations there, and Leitz his class. A natural leader. /random punditary based of watching a fun documentary. Edited by stuthe on Sunday 4th December 10:10

Yes, but we should remember, Leitz is probably one of the current best Porsche ‘factory’ drivers. Up with the likes of Estre.

Digga said: Yes, but we should remember, Leitz is probably one of the current best Porsche ‘factory’ drivers. Up with the likes of Estre. Makes me think why is he not driving for the factory team and put another factory driver in with Fassbender?

Digga said: Yes, but we should remember, Leitz is probably one of the current best Porsche ‘factory’ drivers. Up with the likes of Estre. Leitz surely is up there with the very best. It's a joy seeing his calm, focus and determination - that's what separates the merely very good from the great IMO

Fascinating latest episode. Really shows what happens when a team gets pushed out of it's planned schedule with car problems and the knock on effects.

Illustrates well the difference between a great driver and a good one. ( BTW no question Fassbender is a vastly better driver than I am), but the sense of his being often struggling despite lots of coaching is quite honest. The level at which these guys operate is just amazing, and when you think of (say) F1 it is unrecognizable. I have driven lots of tracks as a basic keep-out-of-the way amateur, but the series is a great illustration of just how difficult competitive motorsport is. Well worth the view.

Fassbender lacks the inner psychopath that is many great driver’s mentor. Sometimes, all you are missing is self belief. He needs the team to pick him up. I could not do half of what he’s done, but looking at it purely from a racing POV, I think the best can out doubt to the back of their minds. The very, very best can remain calm and calculated, at all times.

Digga said: Fassbender lacks the inner psychopath that is many great driver’s mentor. Sometimes, all you are missing is self belief. He needs the team to pick him up. I could not do half of what he’s done, but looking at it purely from a racing POV, I think the best can out doubt to the back of their minds. The very, very best can remain calm and calculated, at all times. I agree. I once made the foolish mistake of asking a racing driver which of the several cars he had raced was his favourite to drive. "Whichever one I was able to win in on the day" was the reply. It was all about winning, nothing else.

I used to do sprints and hill limbs. I guy I knew who’d started racing told me I should join him, saying “you’ll never be quick your own car”. You have to have that attitude.

I must say it’s been a tremendously enjoyable series and my hat’s off to Michael Fassbender. He’s gone for it 100 per cent. I can’t help thinking he seems to be not enjoying himself quite as much in this latest series though. I wonder if it’s the sudden realisation of being slightly out of one’s depth, which happens to the vast majority of us who play sport at a decent level. There comes a time when the stress of knowing you’re not quite good enough somewhat taints the enjoyment of what you’re doing. I speak from experience, though not in racing. It’s an uncomfortable feeling.

Yes, it’s common in many sports and disciplines; your ambition and love for it will invariably drive you to places where you are out of your depth. The moment a challenge is met and conquered, human nature pushes on to the next.

Digga said: Yes, it’s common in many sports and disciplines; your ambition and love for it will invariably drive you to places where you are out of your depth. The moment a challenge is met and conquered, human nature pushes on to the next. So very true digga,some folk thrive on the feeling,the difference though with most sports ,if you get to uncomfortable you can simply stop or back off,unlike some adventure sports where if you commit and not quite good enough death is the potential outcome, thats the real adrenaline pumper

Yellow491 said: Digga said: Yes, it’s common in many sports and disciplines; your ambition and love for it will invariably drive you to places where you are out of your depth. The moment a challenge is met and conquered, human nature pushes on to the next. So very true digga,some folk thrive on the feeling,the difference though with most sports ,if you get to uncomfortable you can simply stop or back off,unlike some adventure sports where if you commit and not quite good enough death is the potential outcome, thats the real adrenaline pumper Yes, I discovered a bit about that, aged 18, the wrong way up the second pitch of a four pitch climb. Downclimbing when you know you have no gear in and the belay is crap. I thought I was dead, possibly my mate too, and knew I was the only one who could do anything about it. Turns out I don’t panic, but I never want to test that out again.

Digga said: Yellow491 said: Digga said: Yes, it’s common in many sports and disciplines; your ambition and love for it will invariably drive you to places where you are out of your depth. The moment a challenge is met and conquered, human nature pushes on to the next. So very true digga,some folk thrive on the feeling,the difference though with most sports ,if you get to uncomfortable you can simply stop or back off,unlike some adventure sports where if you commit and not quite good enough death is the potential outcome, thats the real adrenaline pumper Yes, I discovered a bit about that, aged 18, the wrong way up the second pitch of a four pitch climb. Downclimbing when you know you have no gear in and the belay is crap. I thought I was dead, possibly my mate too, and knew I was the only one who could do anything about it. Turns out I don’t panic, but I never want to test that out again. One thing i have learnt over the years,there are clearly two types,those that panic like headless chickens and create a worse situation,and those that stay cool,think about it and make sound decisions. At least you could climb down,think about those who are truly solo 4 pitches up

Yellow491 said: One thing i have learnt over the years,there are clearly two types,those that panic like headless chickens and create a worse situation,and those that stay cool,think about it and make sound decisions. At least you could climb down,think about those who are truly solo 4 pitches up If you've gone the wrong way on a solo four pitch climb and your legs turn to jelly and start quivering uncontrollably best to just give up and let go to save all the stress. At least you've died with your boots on and not in some care home bed drenched in your own piss an faeces. Alternatively find a safer hobby such as pub quizzes or tiddlywinks etc When I was 22 and touring New Zealand I went on a solo climb up Mount Cook in the Southern Alps and got caught in a blizzard. Nobody knew I was there as I was travelling solo and pre mobile phone times. Lucky for me being a natural coward I didn't have the balls to let go and instead gritted down and got out of there in one piece to tell the tale.

Yellow491 said: At least you could climb down,think about those who are truly solo 4 pitches up The Alex Honnold ‘Free Solo’ film is insane. Only ever solo’d twice. Easy stuff, VDiff, 70 or 80ft, no more. Solo climbers are another level. I see even AH has given it up free soloing for sport climbing.

Digga said: Yellow491 said: At least you could climb down,think about those who are truly solo 4 pitches up The Alex Honnold ‘Free Solo’ film is insane. Only ever solo’d twice. Easy stuff, VDiff, 70 or 80ft, no more. Solo climbers are another level. I see even AH has given it up free soloing for sport climbing. You can still die at 70 feet digga! I suppose taffy would need a walking stick now to go up mount cook Solo is as nuts as squirrel suit flying at the top end,my kayaking expeditions were not much different,once you commit you cant stop and get off at the extreme end.Great doc on Netflix, aftershock,about the exped to everest and Langtang valley etc with the Nepali earthquakes,a place close to my heart.

Yellow491 said: Digga said: Yellow491 said: At least you could climb down,think about those who are truly solo 4 pitches up The Alex Honnold ‘Free Solo’ film is insane. Only ever solo’d twice. Easy stuff, VDiff, 70 or 80ft, no more. Solo climbers are another level. I see even AH has given it up free soloing for sport climbing. You can still die at 70 feet digga! I suppose taffy would need a walking stick now to go up mount cook Solo is as nuts as squirrel suit flying at the top end,my kayaking expeditions were not much different,once you commit you cant stop and get off at the extreme end.Great doc on Netflix, aftershock,about the exped to everest and Langtang valley etc with the Nepali earthquakes,a place close to my heart. I was leading a climb at about 80ft, when my protection fell out. It was a strange experience. I knew that my life was literally in my own hands. Panic was not an option. Climb was HVS, so it was almost a narrow staircase.

Pretty surprised this series only has 7 pages. I`m thoroughly enjoying Series 4, but the previous 3 have all been very high quality productions. The endings can be a bit annoying, they don`t need to leave a cliffhanger, I`ll watch the next episode anyway ! I can understand Leitz driving for the factory team, he`s a talent isn`t he. Although have Matt Campbell jump in as the Pro isn`t a bad replacement. A window into a world I`ll never experience but hat`s off to Fassbender for having a go. I think most of us would relish the chance of anything like that if we had the money behind us to afford it.

Wh00sher said: Pretty surprised this series only has 7 pages. I`m thoroughly enjoying Series 4, but the previous 3 have all been very high quality productions. The endings can be a bit annoying, they don`t need to leave a cliffhanger, I`ll watch the next episode anyway ! I can understand Leitz driving for the factory team, he`s a talent isn`t he. Although have Matt Campbell jump in as the Pro isn`t a bad replacement. A window into a world I`ll never experience but hat`s off to Fassbender for having a go. I think most of us would relish the chance of anything like that if we had the money behind us to afford it. Yes Campbell seems a very steady pair of hands. Old head on young shoulders. I’d love to have a go but would really not think I’m up to the responsibility, let alone the task.

Yellow491 said: You can still die at 70 feet digga! I suppose taffy would need a walking stick now to go up mount cook Solo is as nuts as squirrel suit flying at the top end,my kayaking expeditions were not much different,once you commit you cant stop and get off at the extreme end.Great doc on Netflix, aftershock,about the exped to everest and Langtang valley etc with the Nepali earthquakes,a place close to my heart. You don’t die at 70ft, it’s the last foot of falling that is the most dangerous. I’d love to go to the Himalayas. I’ve traveled a fair bit (enough) and have a very short bucket list, that and Terres del Paines are at the top. Get kicks from mtb now. Eight of us out in Lakes last weekend in the snow and ice. All very experienced riders. Three came off on Saturday’s 19 miler. Was a real mission. No one badly hurt.

Digga said: Yellow491 said: You can still die at 70 feet digga! I suppose taffy would need a walking stick now to go up mount cook Solo is as nuts as squirrel suit flying at the top end,my kayaking expeditions were not much different,once you commit you cant stop and get off at the extreme end.Great doc on Netflix, aftershock,about the exped to everest and Langtang valley etc with the Nepali earthquakes,a place close to my heart. You don’t die at 70ft, it’s the last foot of falling that is the most dangerous. I’d love to go to the Himalayas. I’ve traveled a fair bit (enough) and have a very short bucket list, that and Terres del Paines are at the top. Get kicks from mtb now. Eight of us out in Lakes last weekend in the snow and ice. All very experienced riders. Three came off on Saturday’s 19 miler. Was a real mission. No one badly hurt. Himalayas are fantastic been going off and on since 1988,indian himal possibly the best in terms of remoteness and little tourism unlike the Everest trail etc,great mountain biking out there.If you look up mount kailash in tibet,the 4 main rivers of asia start from it,tried to kayak all 4 of them,managed two of them over the years,a very special spooky place,considered the centre of earth, all 4 faces like a pyramid facing north,east,south and west. Left my electric mountain bike in the shed this snowy period,did not fancy a broken limb for xmas a big deviation from fassbender sorry.

Fassbender vs Dempsey; who is the better driver? Both actors, both Porsche fanatics.

It would interesting to know the business model around Fassbender's participation. Rather than being 100% sponsored by Porsche or a full pay-to-drive arrangement - I suspect it's a hybrid - a subsidised seat in return for the PR involvement.

Ken Sington said: Fassbender vs Dempsey; who is the better driver? Both actors, both Porsche fanatics. isnt the team he's driving for Dempseys?

I agree that Leitz is the real deal...the consummate professional...

Nurburgsingh said: Ken Sington said: Fassbender vs Dempsey; who is the better driver? Both actors, both Porsche fanatics. isnt the team he's driving for Dempseys? It’s quite the trick to be actor, racer and then successful team leader.

Excellent as always, i know he’s a good actor but that mental torture looks genuine for him.

Anyone who thinks they can drive should watch this sort’s the men from the boys.

Skin981 said: Anyone who thinks they can drive should watch this sort’s the men from the boys. Yes indeed...I learned many years ago the difference between an OK amateur and a proper racing driver. Have had the experience of some passenger laps with good racing drivers in the my own car. There is simply no comparison.

Couldn’t believe how mentally exhausted he was after that crash

Penguinracer said: It would interesting to know the business model around Fassbender's participation. Rather than being 100% sponsored by Porsche or a full pay-to-drive arrangement - I suspect it's a hybrid - a subsidised seat in return for the PR involvement. Yeah I reckon that’s it. He started off doing the Porsche Racing Experience in at GT3 Cup car and I’d guess he showed enough competence (combined with the stardom) to get Porsche to support it as a marketing effort. https://www.porsche.com/specials/en/international/...

RDMcG said: Skin981 said: Anyone who thinks they can drive should watch this sort’s the men from the boys. Yes indeed...I learned many years ago the difference between an OK amateur and a proper racing driver. Have had the experience of some passenger laps with good racing drivers in the my own car. There is simply no comparison. Tim Harvey was kind enough to give me and handful of pax laps around Donington in his 991.2 GT3 RS MR. It was staggering, visceral, but just a road car. Can’t really fully picture how it must feel in a full race car on slicks.

Looks like he’s coming back for more in 2023. :-)

I was a bit disappointed by series 4. The overriding feeling I got from it is that Michael Fassbender is just not quite cut out to be a racing driver. Don't get me wrong he is bloody impressive and can put in some great lap times. However there is just something missing in the psyche. Having the team radio out to you what is coming up behind you in the dark is not a good place to be. For starters it is placing an unreasonable responsibility on other people in the team plus it is a distraction. As the driver you have to be 100% totally focussed on the job in hand and that includes managing the traffic. Yes its bloody scary when an LMP1 car blows past you about 3MM away but its up to you to manage the situation not the team. I was reminded of an earlier race, Monza I think, when it started raining on the warming up lap. He was straight on the radio asking the pro driver how to drive the car in the conditions. Christ man the only person who can do that is you, just feel for the grip, feel how the car reacts and drive accordingly. When he got shoved into the barrier during the LeMans race he just sat there for god knows how long cogitating the inequities of life. Real racing drivers hit the start button and drag the car back to the pits, on willpower alone if necessary. The team actually had to tell him to give it a go. I think there is quite a bit of over analysis going on and not enough relying on just how it feels. I suppose that is Hollywood for you.

Richard Lietz is a legend, what a driver and humble too.

bigmowley said: I was a bit disappointed by series 4. The overriding feeling I got from it is that Michael Fassbender is just not quite cut out to be a racing driver. Don't get me wrong he is bloody impressive and can put in some great lap times. However there is just something missing in the psyche. Having the team radio out to you what is coming up behind you in the dark is not a good place to be. For starters it is placing an unreasonable responsibility on other people in the team plus it is a distraction. As the driver you have to be 100% totally focussed on the job in hand and that includes managing the traffic. Yes its bloody scary when an LMP1 car blows past you about 3MM away but its up to you to manage the situation not the team. I was reminded of an earlier race, Monza I think, when it started raining on the warming up lap. He was straight on the radio asking the pro driver how to drive the car in the conditions. Christ man the only person who can do that is you, just feel for the grip, feel how the car reacts and drive accordingly. When he got shoved into the barrier during the LeMans race he just sat there for god knows how long cogitating the inequities of life. Real racing drivers hit the start button and drag the car back to the pits, on willpower alone if necessary. The team actually had to tell him to give it a go. I think there is quite a bit of over analysis going on and not enough relying on just how it feels. I suppose that is Hollywood for you. Its easy to criticise but I can see it would be very easy to get overwhelmed. He’s been on a pretty fast track. Okay, guys like Chris Hoy did very similar, but the gap, from Olympian to endurance racer is much less, IMHO, than from Hollywood. I’d agree Fasbender had needed an awful lot of moral and emotional support, but I can fully appreciate how easy it would be for self doubt to take over. Schuey_911 said: Richard Lietz is a legend, what a driver and humble too. Only other guys I see this in is professional cyclists. Saw my mate earlier today; was a world champ and Olympic athlete and I’d say at least half the people who know him have no idea. Modesty is a gift. Lietz is a hero.

Speculation that Fassbender will be alongside Harry Ticknell this year in the #88 Proton Competition Porsche. https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/01/11/fia-wec-...

Leithen said: Speculation that Fassbender will be alongside Harry Ticknell this year in the #88 Proton Competition Porsche. https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/01/11/fia-wec-... I understand that the amount of talent and experience at this level is very elevated. I recognize that compared to an average street driver Fassbender is at another level and would like to have the same ability. However, I do wonder if he would be there if he were not a celebrity. He is clearly a sincere hardworking guy but he appears to be the weak link in any team, and I would be surprised if he survived if he had been more obscure.

RDMcG said: I understand that the amount of talent and experience at this level is very elevated. I recognize that compared to an average street driver Fassbender is at another level and would like to have the same ability. However, I do wonder if he would be there if he were not a celebrity. He is clearly a sincere hardworking guy but he appears to be the weak link in any team, and I would be surprised if he survived if he had been more obscure. Where do other Am drivers come from? Do they buy their way in?

I think whatever you are doing, the art is to keep it fun. I know very fast drivers who are at their happiest when the car is on the edge of slip ... I know others who are terrified the moment it rains ... I'm not sure that Fassbender is now finding this fun ???

To be honest, the only reason I watch it, is because it's Porsche Motorsport and love seeing the stuff that happens in the background that we normally wouldn't see watching the racing on Eurosport. But as far as Fassbender is concerned, I just find him a bit of a whinger and find that quite annoying. Clearly he's a physically fit guy but don't believe he has the racer mindset.

Respect for him giving it a good go , stepping in with good pros in any sport is tough

I agree, it must be a nett plus to him ... some people thrive on fear ! I thrive on a challenge and pushing the envelope, but fear, no thanks.

Schuey_911 said: To be honest, the only reason I watch it, is because it's Porsche Motorsport and love seeing the stuff that happens in the background that we normally wouldn't see watching the racing on Eurosport. But as far as Fassbender is concerned, I just find him a bit of a whinger and find that quite annoying. Clearly he's a physically fit guy but don't believe he has the racer mindset. I think, given his celebrity status, it’s perhaps been easy for him to suffer acute imposter syndrome. The fact the whole team have his back seems to suggest they believe he has what it takes, if only he believed it too. What he’s done so far is no mean feat.

Well it was a nice project for both sides… - Porsche get loads of marketing, and new A-list brand ambassador that is actually accomplished and has a proven track record in their field (which IMO can’t be said for Raducanu, I’m sick to the back teeth of seeing her everywhere and pushed so hard by Porsche… Flash in the pan!) - Michael pays his money and gets to try his hand at something pretty special with motorsport royalty, Porsche @ Lemans?… it doesn’t get higher… only maybe Ferrari @ Monza is comparable. My interest in his journey waned quite significantly as I actually feel like he WAS acting and over-dramatic this season tbh, to the point where I was fed up of his whining and whinging, as he was pulling himself downwards with self flagellation. Now, of course this can happen…I’m pretty hard on myself when I don’t think I’m running very well on a track day… but then I have a cup of tea, and decide to go out, drive slow, pick a couple of corners to work on and build back up. But that’s because I want to enjoy and maximise the very few days of circuit time I have per year, because tomorrow or the day after, I have to go back to regular work, with bills to pay. The imposter syndrome affected him, because he lost perspective IMO, and really that’s what you were hearing from all of those around him, including the Pro drivers; He just started to take himself too seriously as ‘a racing driver’, and then found himself short. What I’ve loved this series for, is the behind the scenes of Porsche gong endurance racing, how they operate, how they work on the cars etc etc. It was a great follow up to the original…

Top athletes: (1) Are strong analysts of their own technique; (2 ) Are open to constructive criticism /. feedback; (3) Are constantly seeking self improvement; (4) Do the analysis; (5) Decide on the appropriate actions or technical changes; (6) Practise the refined technique; (7) Then through visualisation encode the new approach into their mindset so that it becomes instinctive / automatic. My feeling is that Michael is struggling with step (7).