Seeking Brake Bleeding Tips

I purchased a hand held vacuum pump to try, helped a little. The brakes are spongy, bled them a lot but cannot seem to get the system bled of all air to my satisfaction. So, what are the tricks you guys use? I bled the inner bleeder first then outer. How much pressure are you using in the motive? Are you using an empty motive that just pressures the system and then adding to the master as needed? Thanks.

Have you tryed gravity bleeding? Just open a bleeder and let gravity remove the air. Crack a bleeder and when you see fluid start to flow tighten the bleeder. Start at the furthest point from your master cylinder just make sure you master cylinder is full. I have used this for years when there is no one around to help me bleed the brakes.

You need the Motive to do the job right. Porsche says to use 2 bar (29 PSI) pressure, I assume to push fluid though stuff like the ABS system. You can use the Motive dry, but you need to be very careful not to run out of fluid in the master cylinder . I always put fluid the Motive tank, that helps prevent the MC going dry. If you put fluid in the Motive tank just be sure when you're done to depressurize the tank by unscrewing the hand pump (not the fitting at the MC reservoir) or you'll make a real mess. If you get air in the system (e.g., by running out of fluid in the MC and pushing air into the lines) the service manual states you need to fully rebleed the system, and then do a second bleed while actuating the ABS pump. This requires something like Durametric. I've never had to do that.

Thanks guys, the master never went dry, I fill it back up with regularity. I have a Durametric and know nothing about how to use it in conjunction with bleeding. They were much better today and I only went to get gas. I'll evaluate them tomorrow, Wednesday is supposed to be bad weather so if need be I'll bleed everything again Thursday and if someone knows the procedure with the Durametic by all means please let me know.

Hi Boris, You need to bleed the ABS/PSM modulator. There is a specific routine to bleed this and you need a diagnostics tool that will activate it. I can't recall if the Durametric does this on the 987, but I know the Foxwell NT530 did on my '09, and it even has a specific trigger for the ABS used for bleeding it. There are 4 circuits in the modulator, each has to be done separately as you're bleeding that wheel circuit. I did this with my mechanic friend, I ran the NT530 , he opened wheel circuits, we had a pressure bleeder hooked to the brake reservoir. He was surprised at the amount of air that was trapped in each ABS circuit, and when we were done the pedal was MUCH firmer - and has remained that way. I think you'll have to hookup the Durametric and see if they have the ABS bleed function. If so - Foxwell made note of not operating any one circuit for more than about 20 seconds (which is plenty of time to get the air out) so the modulator isn't overheated. You really need two people to do this - one to turn the modulator on and off, and one to open the bleed nipple..

Where's the modulator? Are the bleeders right on said modulator or are the the normal bleeders opened for the modulator to push fluid through? Or is it just a computer prompt you follow actuate the modulator and to bleed each corner? Both bleeders? So many questions about it. I don't have two people nor do I know if the durametric will do it I'll have to look there first. In the meantime I'm considering one more bleed procedure with the Motive pushing fluid this time. If there's no love from that last attempt then it's going to an indy for that work. Durametric claims it can help with brake bleeding but does not describe the process any further, I can get a neighbor to assist if I can knowledge out the process.

Regard to methods, for a quick bleed and not a flush, you can do it the old-fashioned way of getting a helper to pump the brake pedal for you while you work the bleed nipples. I have used that method for 35+ years of brake bleeding and flushing. I finally purchased a motive bleeder a year ago and what an improvement in time savings! My helper/wife was in disbelief when she learned that 30 years of brake pumping could have been avoided had I invested $60 in the bleeder. For flushes definitely go the bleeder route with fluid in the bleeder combined w/ use of the diagnostic tool.

I have a motive, I'm a little more clear on module bleeding from doing some internet searching although all those examples show one bleeder per caliper. It's not clear to me whether my enthusiast version of durametric can do the job. I'm not against buying a new scanning tool and getting a talented neighbor to help as long as I understand the process, especially with the two bleeder nipples.

Enthusiast Durameteric is supposed to have that functionality, yes, but some folks have reported it doesn't work right. I've never tried it. Did you get air into the system (from the master running dry) or replace ABS components? If not, you should not have to bleed the ABS module : that is not required for regular bleeding.

Gubi I don't think I allowed air into the system, however there is still air in the system. Thursday I'll try once more with fluid in the Motive this time, never done it that way. If that doesn't work I might as well buy a Foxwell for what it's going to cost to have it done then I have a new tool as well. I read what you read about the durametric and frankly I find their system of tabs archaic the Foxwell looks dare I say it intuitive.

You might try going out as spirited-a-run as you feel comfortable with going heavy on the braking to get some heat in the system. Push all those air bubbles out toward the calipers or up through the master. Then let the system cool down and re-bleed. I use a Motive, maybe 25-30psi, fill the reservoir as you go, not in the bleeder. I do RR 300ml, LR 250ml, RF 150ml, LF 100ml. Of that amount, all but about 25ml on the outside bleeder, then 25ml inside bleeder. As long as I've had the car, I've never bled the ABS nor used the auto bleed function. Also, if you have a manual, make sure to bleed the clutch. I prefer doing it first.

I will report back Thursday night, here's the next plan as related to me by a gilded master mechanic: Put some fluid in the catch can bottom to prevent air escaping back up the drain tube. I already made a custom catch out of an old soup container and have a larger catch to dump that into. Tube the bleeder, open it, pump the brake pedal ten to fifteen times, go back to the caliper and snug the bleeder. Keep the master full and complete the cycle. I trust this guy, everywhere he has gone he has been the messiah so his method goes next , he doesn't like pressurizing the MC.

I mean, the old way of bleeding can't hurt. But that said, the Motive power bleeder is the bees knees, and it's what Porsche specifies. I've bled brakes every which way over the years and the Motive is the absolute fastest and easiest way I've found to do it.

Been using the motive since the 986 . I'll type this: It's not coming back off the jacks till it's right this time. If that means a Foxwell to purge the ABS module then so be it.

Enthusiast Durametric will do what you need. I can plug it in this weekend if you need me to find it in the menus. Currently the boxster is on the top spot on the lift and there is an immobile 356 under it

OK here's my synopsis. From here on out for me: Flush with Motive dry, use low pressure but enough to keep flow. Top off master as needed, likely every two bleeders. Then do a finish bleed with the pedal, open the bleeder, inner first, pump the brake slowly ten times, tighten, do the outer the same way. All I did was re bleed the backs and the pedal is ridiculously high and hard, perfect ! Did the fronts too because I watched too much Formula one on Netflix and I don't want the Leclerk disappointments from poor prep, anyhow this method is really great IMO.

This is not recommended. You don't want to release the pedal while bleeder is open. Bleeder should only be open while brake pedal is under pressure. Release of pedal while bleeder is open will allow air into caliper either via the tube or leak around threads. This is the method with the helper....... say "push" (on the pedal) as you open the bleeder and then you close it as the pedal nears the floor, say "release" to have helper release the pedal (bleeder is closed). Watch for bubbles/air if bleeding. Do this until no air bubbles. If flushing, do this until you extract fluid amounts as referenced above. If this is for flushing it is a fair amount of pedal pumping .

Bleeder drain line was submerged in brake fluid, to prevent air backwash. It worked perfect after four motive bleeds before it so I'm good with it. I understand what you're saying this is the first time I ever did this, if I had a helper I would have done the pump, hold, bleed, pump, hold, bleed routine of my youth. But the guy is a absolute crackerjack of a wrench I trust him and he has used this method for a long while. I can't argue with the outcome the pedal is better than it was when I began the flush. Have to shout out to Joe Biker because it sounds like the concept he offered early on.

Boris - don't panic! (Do you know where that saying came from?) 1 - There are no bleeders on the ABS/PSM modulator. You bleed it by passing fluid THROUGH it while bleeding the rest of the wheel circuit. There are piston type pumps in it that can trap air. Fluid only flows through the active mechanism when the pumps are activated. That's what the Foxwell does. 2 - When we did it - my mechanic cracked the caliper nipple and said - GO - I activated that wheel circuit in the modulator using the Foxwell . Fluid flowed through it and air came out. One circuit quite a bit of air came out. 3 - Using a pressure bleeder is a wonderful thing. Especially one that can have brake fluid in it so you don't have to refill the reservoir between wheel circuits. That will cost more in brake fluid since I won't pour fluid back into the bottle once it's been exposed to air, but fluid is cheap compared to brake parts.

Ha thanks for the data, I didn't panic I was just misinformed by technology passing me by. I would have gladly bought the Foxwell but I don't need it now and the Durametric faithfully resets oil codes which is good enough for now. After my experience I think actuating the pedal to bleed within the bleeding process (preferably with a buddy in the car) is something I will always do going forward, especially after a Motive pressure flush.

Get a Motion Pro one-way check valve. Connect it to your bleed nipple. Now you don't have to worry about air or old fluid getting sucked back into your caliper. I've learned that quite a few of the bubbles that we see in the bleeder hose comes in from around the bleed nipple. Have a friend slowly depress and release the brake pedal while you monitor the bleed nipple. You will open and close it for the first few pumps, but once fluid reaches the check valve you don't need to do a thing but make sure that the bleed nipple is still fairly tight to the caliper and you aren't overfilling your drain bottle. I've done motorcycles, the Cayman , winged sprint cars, everything with this method and it gives you a solid pedal with minimum effort and mess.

The first time I flushed the brake fluid, I had the same problem - a very soft pedal after flushing the fluid with my Motive bleeder. Like you, I had to pressure bleed (two person method) the rears to get a firm pedal. I was pretty surprised at how much air was in the system after the Motive flush. I recently replaced the fluid (after upgrading to a GT3 master cylinder , well worth doing!) and again had to pressure bled the rears, so I guess it's SOP!

Boris, The big reason I stopped doing the wife in the driver's seat pressing the brake pedal and me yelling down/up - it's hard to control how FAR down the wife pushed the pedal. I have only had master cylinders fail on me after bleeding a hydraulic system using that technique. Unless you put a block down so they can't put it to the floor - it will go to the floor - and that's now a new area of the cylinder bore that's exposed to the cup seal on the piston. Unfortunately - that part of the bore often has some corrosion or roughness to it that can cause damage to the seal(s).. the damage never showed up right away - it usually was around a month later that the cylinder started leaking due to seal failure. If you have someone who knows not to press it all the way to the floor when the bleeder is open you'll do OK, but those sorts of people are really quite rare and not easy to drag to the garage late at night. Easier to use a pressure bleeder, and it also makes it easier to do the ABS/PSM modulator. You activate the modulator for 20 seconds while the fluid is flowing, then after the modulator shuts off - leave the fluid flowing until no bubbles appear. The added velocity of the power bleed helps sweep air bubbles out of nooks and crannies in the brake hydraulics. I'm much more confident doing it this way.. and I end up with a nice firm factory feeling pedal. Answer to the question - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Douglas Adams)..

I track with about 15 or more guys who all do their own maintenance (myself included) and it is a wealth of experience levels from instructors to PCA Club racers to intermediate folks. Not one of us has ever used the DuraMetric during the bleeding process to . I once asked my indy mechanic about it and his perspective was that this was not needed either. Most of us use the Motive bleeders with fluid added into the bleeder rather than the reservoir. If you do use a Durametric, be careful drawing the conclusion that its use in opening the ABS modules was the solution to a soft pedal; it may have been that all it needed was a bit more attention when bleeding alone.

Funny thing is - Porsche seems to feel it's necessary. In this case, I'll believe the engineers vs an indy mechanic (with what level of training?) Plus - I felt the difference. Perhaps if you've never done it and felt the difference it can make, doing it the other (incomplete IMHO) way seems adequate. BTW- I'd have to look - can Durametric activate the ABS/PSM modulators? I did it with a Foxwell NT530 with Porsche software, which has a specific brake bleed section.

The service manual is pretty clear that triggering the ABS pump is not needed for routine bleeding for fluid replacement. You only need to do that if you replace the ABS pump module, or probably if you get air into the system by lettting the MC run dry during bleeding. Not sure why people don't just use the Motive as designed and fill the tank with fluid. If you do it that way there's no risk of running the MC reservoir dry, and you can do all four wheels and the clutch slave in one go without having to refill anything. Only trick is when you're done, depressurize the tank by unscrewing the pump, not the fitting at the MC or you'll make a mess.

I'm not disputing what Porsche service writers or techs recommend. I can only say that they also recommend brand new rotors for every brake job among other completely unnecessary things which pushed me to an Indy shop. I've found the advice and info offered by my Indy mech is not as clouded by the overhead concerns of running a dealership.