Porsche worse than Land Rover for reliability?! - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1...

Ooops!

I blame the active engine mounts

I can believe that when you think of a lot of the faults there have been with new models…can’t remember what the faults were with 992 but remember them being reported on here. Same with Taycan I think. I certainly wouldn’t buy a car in the first year of production unless I really needed it.

Be interested to know how many 3-10 year old Porshe's they actually warranty

My two year old GT4 has been in for warranty work 5 times I think, nothing seriously mechanical, just crap software! Twice for the tracker, three times for the tyre sensors.

It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53

My engine mount has called in sick as well! 4k miles and 14 months old. Bloody slacker…..

GT4P said: It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53 You make a good point.

GT4P said: It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53 If you read the article : "The data represents only cars that are outside their manufacturer warranties, meaning the minimum age for the sample is three years. The maximum age for cars included in the analysis is 10 years."

guyvert1 said: GT4P said: It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53 If you read the article : "The data represents only cars that are outside their manufacturer warranties, meaning the minimum age for the sample is three years. The maximum age for cars included in the analysis is 10 years." Yes, and that will apply to ALL the brands in the survey, so basically Porsche are demonstrably worse than ALL the other brands' cars in this age group. Surprising.

J Chitty said: My engine mount has called in sick as well! 4k miles and 14 months old. Bloody slacker….. Yeah. They are notorious for going.

Rojibo said: J Chitty said: My engine mount has called in sick as well! 4k miles and 14 months old. Bloody slacker….. Yeah. They are notorious for going. Given their renowned unreliability (and cost) you would have thought by now they would have either fixed them or stopped fitting them.

981Boxess said: Rojibo said: J Chitty said: My engine mount has called in sick as well! 4k miles and 14 months old. Bloody slacker….. Yeah. They are notorious for going. Given their renowned unreliability (and cost) you would have thought by now they would have either fixed them or stopped fitting them. Just avoid cars with 'Chrono' ; and also torque vectoring if you want to avoid regular rear pad replacement. Neither are cheap at an OPC...

thompson9745 said: 981Boxess said: Rojibo said: J Chitty said: My engine mount has called in sick as well! 4k miles and 14 months old. Bloody slacker….. Yeah. They are notorious for going. Given their renowned unreliability (and cost) you would have thought by now they would have either fixed them or stopped fitting them. Just avoid cars with 'Chrono' ; and also torque vectoring if you want to avoid regular rear pad replacement. Neither are cheap at an OPC... I did exactly that and delighted I did.

These are cars outside the manufacturers warranty. I will see how many 992s or 991s are still under Porsche warranties so these are likely to be older cars, whereas I’d bet more of the other marques drop out of manufacturers schemes at a younger age. So without seeing the data it’s probably not a fair comparison. Also cost is one of the factors, ‘Porsche costs more to repair than Vauxhall - hold the front page!’ You would only need a few pre DFI engine rebuilds to really skew the data. So k think it’s pretty meaningless really other than don’t expect running an old Porsche to be cheap. Doe nor necessarily mean they break the whole time.

I concur that this is true. I was to go and meet porsche club Germany when they got off the ferry and my 993 wouldn't start but jumped into the Defender and off she went!

Schuey_911 said: GT4P said: It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53 You make a good point. Agree. No excuse though. I'll be extending my pukka Porsche warranty...

My experience was outside of the norm. My Taycan spent 3.5 months of my first 4 months of ownership off the road. In fact I managed 295 miles in the time I owned it. The car was remarkable. The problem being Porsche are such a low volume manufacturer they simply didn't have the capacity to deal with all the cars they were selling if there was a problem. The infrastructure hadn't grown at the same pace as production/sales. Certainly within the UK. My business partners Taycan also threw a major error - red dashboard "return to dealer" warnings. One phone call later "we can see you in 6 weeks if you don't want a courtesy car or three months if you do" and both our cars were sold back to the supplying dealer. It was both our first foray into Porsche ownership, it will be my last. Great cars, lack of infrastructure to back them up.

they simply aren't built like they used to be. A 997 looks rock solid whereas a 922 looks like it is made of plastic. The panels just look cheap these days. They have gone the same way as Apple.....each iPhone release improves on the tech/ability/functions, gets more expensive, gets more shiny, yet the build quality is a step backwards each time.

I believe that kind of experience is fairly commonplace for Taycan owners, sadly.

Hmm M96/7 engine on the 997 wasn’t rock solid though….

Surely “Porsche” means Cayenne and Macan? I’ve seen similar reports in other countries and from memory the 4x4 system is weak in them or some such. Driveshaft maybe? It could be VAG diesel engines on older cars or hybrid drivetrains and that kind of thing as well. I’d be surprised if 911 reliability or unreliability would impact on the results.

Water pipe issues on cayennes were an expensive problem as were the poor quality pipes on the 997 987 etc. You see lots of leaks an awkward to replace.

21ATS said: My experience was outside of the norm. My Taycan spent 3.5 months of my first 4 months of ownership off the road. In fact I managed 295 miles in the time I owned it. The car was remarkable. The problem being Porsche are such a low volume manufacturer they simply didn't have the capacity to deal with all the cars they were selling if there was a problem. The infrastructure hadn't grown at the same pace as production/sales. Certainly within the UK. My business partners Taycan also threw a major error - red dashboard "return to dealer" warnings. One phone call later "we can see you in 6 weeks if you don't want a courtesy car or three months if you do" and both our cars were sold back to the supplying dealer. It was both our first foray into Porsche ownership, it will be my last. Great cars, lack of infrastructure to back them up. I think this is very true…the amount of time it takes to get a car seen at an OPC now is bordering on the ridiculous. My OPC did a total refurb of their dealership a couple of years ago. They’re now building a new service centra down the road and turning the service department into an expanded new car showroom (Porsche have told them they have to do the latter). Also worth noting re Porsche GB that the CEO left the building a in October having only been in the job for a year “for personal reasons”…from what I had heard the changes she was making were not going down well. Apparently they’ve had several CEO’s in the last few years so clearly things are not as good as they might like to pretend. https://www.motortrader.com/motor-trader-news/auto...

Porsche certainly not as reliable as people believe I have found. Our Macan has been in for warranty work maybe 4 times. Transfer box was the biggest issue which is a known issue was replaced at 14k miles, the OPC warranty is great but I dont think I would run the car without it. Others have been trim and connection issues really which were all small.

21ATS said: The car was remarkable. The problem being Porsche are such a low volume manufacturer they simply didn't have the capacity to deal with all the cars they were selling if there was a problem. The infrastructure hadn't grown at the same pace as production/sales. Certainly within the UK. Porsche by any stretch are not low volume. The problems they are having are the same as all current manufacturers - they can pretty much only get hold of enough parts currently to keep the production line going. There is very low availability of parts for warranty work, especially anything electrical.

They can’t see my car till feb as thats the earliest they have a curtesy car. Month earlier if I didn’t need one but cup 2s in jan? Heck it was enough fun out yesterday in the mainly dry conditions!

WonkeyDonkey said: 21ATS said: The car was remarkable. The problem being Porsche are such a low volume manufacturer they simply didn't have the capacity to deal with all the cars they were selling if there was a problem. The infrastructure hadn't grown at the same pace as production/sales. Certainly within the UK. Porsche by any stretch are not low volume. The problems they are having are the same as all current manufacturers - they can pretty much only get hold of enough parts currently to keep the production line going. There is very low availability of parts for warranty work, especially anything electrical. None of the delays to repairs to either of our Taycan's was down to parts availablility. In fact in my case the parts were sat for a full three months before the only tech qualified to work on Taycans was available to repair my car. The problem is capacity, or more specifically lack of capacity in their facilities. Parts supply has undoubtedly hindered new builds, but that's specific to silicon chips. Not body panels, wheels, physical components actually manufactured by Porsche themselves rather than bought in from third party suppliers. Their sales are outstripping their capacity for service and support, in the UK at least and that's with horrendous chip shortages. Imagine how bad it would be if they were able to deliver all the cars on order in a timely manner. Edited by 21ATS on Friday 9th December 18:32

The unreliability is not just old out of warranty cars, it’s across the board. My feeling is that most of the problems are software bugs rather than serious mechanical problems. Porsches cars are very clever and they haven’t got the software right. My own experience was with buying a brand new pricey Panamera. It really was a lovely car, perfect for me, that was beautifully built - only it wasn’t - it had so many bugs with Airbag systems, PCM, TPM sensors, communications with Apps. Out of 200 odd days I had it, it spent the vast majority at Porsche Reading waiting for new bits. Initially the supplying dealer washed their hands of the problem, and other dealers couldn’t see the car for months. Only an existing relationship with Porsche Reading on my other cars got it seen to in time but they couldn’t do a courtesy car. I kicked up a fuss and was rented a Merc CLA220D by Porsche Customer Relations. In the end, I went back to the supplying dealer and rejected the car, he bought it back and reversed the deal… I was warned before I bought, by a friend, that many Porsches have bugs which then work themselves out in later production years.. Comments here about OPCs being beyond capacity are 100% true. It’s ridiculous to wait 6 weeks to have a warranteed car seen to. Totally unacceptable. I pressed on anyway while others have sworn never to touch the brand again. I won’t buy first production year of a new model Porsche ever again. Taycan is mega but clearly they struggled in first few years of production and haven’t sorted it fully even now. I think the lessons from the Taycan are what is delaying the Macan EV - Porsche don’t want another reliability software debacle. Now Despite all this, I’ve gone on to order another even pricier Panamera betting it’ll now be perfect as it’s two years post facelift. and bought a new Macan. It’s utterly stupid reactions from idiots like me which show why the brand is so hot and treats customers with the arrogance they do…

Yup, I'll never own another Porsche. My business partner wants a 911 though. Even after the debacle with his Taycan. Porsche can behave however they like all the time there are more buyers than products. I'm increasingly finding little interest at all with modern vehicles. Something I never thought I'd say being a petrolhead.

It’s not just the first year cars that have problems…we run a Macan and a Cayenne as daily’s….both well established and not just facelifted when we bought. We do a lot of miles….between them we’ve done 155k miles and have owned them for five and four years respectively. Cayenne has had to go to the OPC twice on a low loader…once for a faulty immobiliser and the second time for a fault with the Air PASM. It’s also had a transfer box replaced. Macan had an intermittent engine fault light which wasn’t fully diagnosed first couple of times, can’t remember wha the fault was now but it was 12 hours work to fix it. Macan has just this weekend developed and fault with the shade for the Panoramic Roof. OPC has always been very helpful and the good news is if your car gets recovered on a low loader you jump the queue and automatically get a courtesy car Also own a 991.2 GT3 which apart from an electronic fault that they all had when delivered has been faultless. Also had 997 which I owned for four years until earlier this year which had one fault that the warranty sorted. So none of them have been faultless….the SUV’s have been the worst but they get a lot of use and I think they’re great cars.

21ATS said: My experience was outside of the norm. My business partners Taycan also threw a major error - red dashboard "return to dealer" warnings. One phone call later "we can see you in 6 weeks if you don't want a courtesy car or three months if you do" and both our cars were sold back to the supplying dealer. I had this issues with another brand, the solution was to not call the dealer when I got a fault but call the supplied breakdown assistance. They give you a hire car and take the broken down car away, you keep the hire car until the car is fixed. Doesnt work with minor issues and might not work with Porsche assistance but work a phone call. I had the hire car a few weeks for no cost.

My Taycan has had a couple of warranty issues but they've always been faultless in getting it sorted. Picked up and courtesy car provided. 911 Turbo S had a problem with the exhaust, forget what, same again. Not problems I've had with most other cars but not what you'd expect from them. To be lower than JLR surprises me, but I never had warranties on them so problems wouldn't have been reported despite having a mechanic out every other week to every single one we've had!

Our Land Rovers have been very reliable ... I think we've had one continuously for the last 30 years ... mainly Defender and a 2013 Discovery 4 which has been great. However, my first Defender did have an incompletely welded front diff that spewed oil once in 4wd. I guess that was a GKN issue that clearly passed QC. The solution was just to clean and seal, it never leaved again in our ownership ... Porsche has also been good ... mainly lack of use on older cars ... but I have always erred towards GT type cars with as few gadgets as possible. If their new gadgets are proving unreliable, they may not age well !

skidskid said: I had this issues with another brand, the solution was to not call the dealer when I got a fault but call the supplied breakdown assistance. They give you a hire car and take the broken down car away, you keep the hire car until the car is fixed. Doesnt work with minor issues and might not work with Porsche assistance but work a phone call. I had the hire car a few weeks for no cost. Yes this. I had a persistent problem with a Cayenne. OPC told me if I had further problems to call Porsche assist as they would take car away if not driveable and sort out hire car whilst it was been fixed. All was well for a week then problem came back. Phoned Porsche assist and car was taken away with courtesy car delivered within few hours.

Had a new Cayenne for the weekend whilst my car was in for a service and despite being a lovely car, the radio didn’t work. Well, the volume was stuck at -1 for all media, and sound settings wouldn’t load. VAG group software just seems to be getting worse and worse.

I've had Defenders for 30 years and god have they been awful! Poor driving position,clunky gearboxes,oil seeping into wiring looms corrosion almost everywhere,slow as f**k up to the 2.4 and now 2.2 with 6 speed gearbox is actually fit for the moden world. Why did I keep buying them? Great for off road farm work over rough terrain and great for towing 3.5 tons of prime beef to market! What will I buy next? I think I will just get the Defender re built as find modern pick ups much too big and unweildy for me.

Rojibo said: Had a new Cayenne for the weekend whilst my car was in for a service and despite being a lovely car, the radio didn’t work. Well, the volume was stuck at -1 for all media, and sound settings wouldn’t load. VAG group software just seems to be getting worse and worse. I was watching a Johnny Smith review of a VW group car…can’t remember which. He said whoever was responsible to the infotainment system had left the building….

Cheib said: It’s not just the first year cars that have problems…we run a Macan and a Cayenne as daily’s….both well established and not just facelifted when we bought. We do a lot of miles….between them we’ve done 155k miles and have owned them for five and four years respectively. Cayenne has had to go to the OPC twice on a low loader…once for a faulty immobiliser and the second time for a fault with the Air PASM. It’s also had a transfer box replaced. Macan had an intermittent engine fault light which wasn’t fully diagnosed first couple of times, can’t remember wha the fault was now but it was 12 hours work to fix it. Macan has just this weekend developed and fault with the shade for the Panoramic Roof. OPC has always been very helpful and the good news is if your car gets recovered on a low loader you jump the queue and automatically get a courtesy car Also own a 991.2 GT3 which apart from an electronic fault that they all had when delivered has been faultless. Also had 997 which I owned for four years until earlier this year which had one fault that the warranty sorted. So none of them have been faultless….the SUV’s have been the worst but they get a lot of use and I think they’re great cars. Interesting post Chieb, I am on my 6th Porsche (3 911s- (996C4S, (997Gen1, 997Gen2) and 3 Caymans 981S,981GTS,and since May a 981GT4. I have had very few warranty claims over the years especially with 911s and some random ones like a faulty wiring loom in the door of the 997Gen1, There were no faults with the Cayman S or GTS, and I have had 3 on the GT4 2of which in my opinion were due to lack of use ie stuck exhaust valve on RH silencer and a fault with the electronic handbrake which involved a new rear caliper at approx £400 all fixed in good time by Norwich OPC under warranty, The recent odd one was a dud horn unit which was messing with the central locking and Norwich had one in stock!. Just renew the OPC warranty at £600/ year and no worries.

Cheib said: I was watching a Johnny Smith review of a VW group car…can’t remember which. He said whoever was responsible to the infotainment system had left the building…. A lot of the bugs seem shared across different models, ie you can reproduce the failures the same way in an A3 as you can a Cayenne. Bit of a strange one but the new PCM feels cheap, to me, with the touch sensitive buttons and widescreen. I guess the shared software development is yet another victim of cost cutting measures. PCM 4.0 (991.2/718) feels the best to me but I may be a touch biased

This really has nothing to do with Porsche and everything to do with cars today generally. We had cars that were inefficient, broke down regularly and were not particularly well made. We fixed that, we had reliable efficient cars that were enjoyable to drive and actually got you there without eating you out of house and home. It should have stopped there. But no, we needed seats that could play snooker with our balls and can bus electrics to introduce endless hassle and go back from whence we came. Then just to make sure it wouldn’t be too reliable we introduced software and coding to such a level you cannot even change a battery without coding it in. Cars are too ducking complicate for their own good today, simple as that.

981Boxess said: This really has nothing to do with Porsche and everything to do with cars today generally. We had cars that were inefficient, broke down regularly and were not particularly well made. We fixed that, we had reliable efficient cars that were enjoyable to drive and actually got you there without eating you out of house and home. It should have stopped there. But no, we needed seats that could play snooker with our balls and can bus electrics to introduce endless hassle and go back from whence we came. Then just to make sure it wouldn’t be too reliable we introduced software and coding to such a level you cannot even change a battery without coding it in. Cars are too ducking complicate for their own good today, simple as that. It's the same for all the other car companies (large increase in electrical gizmos) but I assume some must be getting it right? Or do we think all cars are unreliable these days? Dunc.

We have a car park full of newish modern cars and mostly they all have issues on a regular basis mainly due to complexity. Bizarrely the most rliable car on the leader board is an Alfa Stelvio. My 991.2 did head leader board in its time. No major issues.As for the RangeRovers here , well, its not how often they go wrong , its the enormous cost of repairs outside warranty. That being said, our local RangeRover specialist does drive a RangeRover. Not a Porsche.

45,000 miles in my 992, no issues. My advice for a prospective owners is 1) Do no add any options apart from your color. Less to go wrong. Active engine mounts, lithium battery, glass sunroof, 4 wheel steering, super low profile tyres-all mean you will be back at the stealer all the time. 2) Drive it every day. Thats it.

anonymous said: [redacted] They’re out there…I was in local tyre shop the other day. Bloke walked in with a Panamera….had a brand of tyres on it I’d literally e ever heard of (Chinese I think) and literally just wanted the cheapest thing he could put on his car “because all tyres are the same”. He’d be all over Warranty Wise I am sure.

Cheib said: They’re out there…I was in local tyre shop the other day. Bloke walked in with a Panamera….had a brand of tyres on it I’d literally e ever heard of (Chinese I think) and literally just wanted the cheapest thing he could put on his car “because all tyres are the same”. He’d be all over Warranty Wise I am sure. His neighbour will still be able to read the Porsche badge even if he cannot make out the brand of tyres and that is all that matters to him. Make no mistake there are a few of his mates posting on here too, just read some of the servicing costs threads.

john41901 said: guyvert1 said: GT4P said: It’s done by Warranty Wise so most likely older cars out of warranty ie 9x6/7 and not the newer cars or older cars with opc warranty so not really a true outlook especially cars that have been purchased from less than decent indies and not been looked after properly out of official warranty. Edited by GT4P on Thursday 8th December 14:53 If you read the article : "The data represents only cars that are outside their manufacturer warranties, meaning the minimum age for the sample is three years. The maximum age for cars included in the analysis is 10 years." Yes, and that will apply to ALL the brands in the survey, so basically Porsche are demonstrably worse than ALL the other brands' cars in this age group. Surprising. I just did a warranty wise quote for a 5 year old Cayman. £1,173.40 for a year, £2,229.46 for two years. A Porsche extended warranty is £770 for a years extension, or £1,250 for two (£80 more if standalone and not an extension). The Porsche warranty seems to cover more as well. So I am curious who goes for the warantywise warranty on their Porsche and why? Maybe their cars have been denied an extended warranty from Porsche as they aren't up to scratch when 111 point inspected? Just speculating, but if my car was able to pass the Porsche inspection, I can't think why I'd pay significantly more for a less comprehensive warranty. I believe Porsche have some build quality issues, but I am curious if the examples warantywise are covering haven't made the grade for Porsche to be willing to... I think there may be more to this than first meets the eye. Edited by PaulD86 on Thursday 15th December 08:40

Can’t see them keeping warranty prices at these levels for much longer….

PaulD86 said: A Porsche extended warranty is £770 for a years extension, or £1,250 for two (£80 more if standalone and not an extension). The Porsche warranty seems to cover more as well. So I am curious who goes for the warantywise warranty on their Porsche and why? Maybe their cars have been denied an extended warranty from Porsche as they aren't up to scratch when 111 point inspected? Just speculating, but if my car was able to pass the Porsche inspection, I can't think why I'd pay significantly more for a less comprehensive warranty. Because that commits the owner to OPC servicing costs and a lot of people see that as a step too far for their wallets.

981Boxess said: ecause that commits the owner to OPC servicing costs and a lot of people see that as a step too far for their wallets. Fair enough. I wouldn't run a modern Porsche without OPC warranty, which I found to be excellent. The opposite for my 996. I'd be mad to use OPC

981Boxess said: PaulD86 said: A Porsche extended warranty is £770 for a years extension, or £1,250 for two (£80 more if standalone and not an extension). The Porsche warranty seems to cover more as well. So I am curious who goes for the warantywise warranty on their Porsche and why? Maybe their cars have been denied an extended warranty from Porsche as they aren't up to scratch when 111 point inspected? Just speculating, but if my car was able to pass the Porsche inspection, I can't think why I'd pay significantly more for a less comprehensive warranty. Because that commits the owner to OPC servicing costs and a lot of people see that as a step too far for their wallets. Could well be. Although with a 2 years service interval, that's only one service and the extra £1k of the WW warranty would probably pay for that entirely, or come close. But as you say, it could be a/the reason.