Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened?

Two weeks ago, I ordered "OEM" pads for my Cayman S because I was very satisfied with the original stopping, feel, sound and dust performance for my kind of driving. After removing the originals, I learned that they were manufactured by Brembo (logo on the plate) yet the “OEM” pads said Textar. As I had a DE in 4 days, I installed the Textars. During the seat-in period of about 150miles of driving over the weekend, I noticed a greater amount of effort to slow the car down. It is funny how sensitive the car is to this sort of thing. Then, took the car up to Lime Rock for a one day DE and the brakes again felt weaker with regards to the friction or stopping power. I can only attribute the difference to the replacement pads. However, ABS hardly ever kicked in as they had during previous track experiences. I only run 1-4 DEs a year. Around town, the car distinctly feels less Porschesque than before. So here are my questions: 1. As the hydraulic brake pressure in the system is now greater, will the rear brakes take a greater amount of energy than the front and, will the greater rear stopping bias be better, or worse, for the track? 2. Will the loss of braking feel improve after the pads seat with the rotor (it been 400 miles now)? 3. Should both fronts and rear’s be replace at the same time? 4. Should I get Brembo pads to match the rears? Thanks, -Stevie

My first set were Brembo as well but they were replaced with OEM Textar pads and these weren't nearly as good as the originals. Is there a way to specify that you get the Brembo 's vs Textar when ordering? They should be the same or Textar shouldn't be allowed to supply OEM. G.

What leads you to believe you have higher hydraulic pressure?

Brembo Textax, and Pagid make pads for Porsche OEM. Have you flushed and/or bleed the brakes? How old is the fluid currently in your car? Are your brake rotors grooved? I assume you have the original brake lines. A used rotor will take a little longer to mate to new pads since it is not flat. New pads are supposed to be beaded in. Go to Pagid site and they have a beading procedure recommendation. Do you have any brake vibrations?

1. The pressure is the same. Changing pads doesn't change hydraulic pressure. 2. It should as the new pads conform to the wear pattern of the old rotors the contact area will improve. That's why some dealers recommend changing rotors with pads - to avoid customer complaints similar to yours. 3. Not necessary assuming pad material is not significantly different. All the oem pads are compatible. 4. Not necessary. Sure. Specify whichever you want when you order them. I've had good experience with Textar on my Porsches and always specify (and get) Textar oem pads. However, although some here have a different experience, I've not found any oem pad to be well suited to any serious track use. Pagid yellows are my track pad of choice for my daily driver since I can use them on the street between DEs.

That's my initial feeling. The variable is manufacturer. I'd like to stick with the same manufacturer of the calipers, Brembo . Subsituting parts other than the manufactueres is not right. I was satisfied with the brakes before installing the inferior pads. Now I'm not happy, unless the pads need longer to seat. -Stevie

I thought the harder you press the brake pedal the higher the hydraulic pressure in the brake system pressing the pads to the disks. I'm I wrong? -Stevie

These are great points ! It has been a little over a year since they were blead. Fluid is OEM, 3.5 years. Time to flush, indeed. They are grooved. Any idea on how many miles for the grooves to be seated into the pad? All that said, the braking issue that I'm talking about did not become apparent until the pad change, last week. If I took the pad change out of the equation, I would indeed follow your solutions. Thanks, -Stevie PS: Went to the Pagid site and did not find any beading procedure. Do you have a link you can forward?

Pagid make the OEM pads if you opt for PCCB ...

If you feel vibratiion when you apply the brakes, similar to a warped rotor . Clean the rotor disks with Windex . This info is not mine. Craig commented on Windex to clean pad deposition on the disk. This can happen to some pad material especially while tracking the car. It might be worth a shot, before beading the pads. beez good link!

Ok, since its fluid talk, it got me thinking about this... I've changed my pads about 3 months ago and now the car is about 2 years old. Should I bleed the fluid or should I wait for the next pad change? Which will probably be in no less than another 6 months

Porsche recommends you change/flush the brake fluid every two years - not just bleed the system. It does not have to be done at the same time as a pad change. Bleeding and flushing are two different things... bleeding, you're taking any air out of the lines, then adding more fluid to take the place of what was lost in the process. Flushing is a complete fluid change. This is what should be done every two years. No, it doesn't have to be done right on the day of two years, but you should do it within a reasonable time of the two year mark. I know you're in Egypt, and it's hot there.... is it humid or dry? If it's dry, like it is here in Las Vegas USA, you'll have a little more leeway in terms of time. I change mine about every 6 months, but only because I track the car a lot. brad

Thanks for your response Brad, I do know bleeding and flushing are different things. It was just a typo as I was rather sleepy at the time. Around here the weather mostly pleasant, not that dry and not that humid either. However, we spent the last 2 months in a beach house which is far more humid and has more sea salt than here in Cairo. Is there a way to check the fluid?? Are there any signs of humidity that I should look for?? Otherwise I'll just flush it at the nearest scheduled service!

Six that is the best reminder since my long ago very gruff mechanic (a Porsche mechanic at Le Mans several times) told me "You go to da toilet you flush, you go to da track you flush. Remember dat".

Love the analogy, by the way I am a plumbing contractor. That is a very wise mechanic. I have never had a problem with brakes, but I flush and bleed my brakes. As others have said if the car does not go, you call a tow truck. If the car does not stop you call the wreck yard.

A very high moisture content will gradually turn light amber/gold fluid darker, all the way to a dark brown after a bunch of years. However, by the time most people can see the difference, it's long overdue for any kind of serious driving. There are meters and test strips that provide an objective way to determine when it's time to flush. However, since a quality Dot 4 fluid is relatively inexpensive and it's an easy DIY, why take a chance? An extra brake flush won't put you into a wall, but skipping it might.

Nitro: If you have a 2 year old car and you are just driving on the street, you can wait 6 months, but if you are going through pads in 6 months, it sounds like you are tracking the car or using the brakes heavily in the mountains etc. That means you should change the fluid. The key is how hot the brakes are getting. The factory recommendation is for street use and to protect against corrosion from moisture that leeches into the system over time. Most every manufacturer has similar requirements but most people ignore them then complain when they need a new master cylinder or caliper. -Six

UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? Thanks for all the opinions regarding the lack of performance I am experiencing after replacing the Brembo pads with “OEM” Textars. Here is a summary of the recommendations I have received: 1. Bleed the brakes 2. Replace the fluid every 6 months or you will be a danger to everyone on the track 3. Replace the fluid before each time you go to the track 4. Replace the disk when you replace the pad 5. Replace all the brake lines with steel 6. Use high performance track pads 7. Seat the brake pads with rotors 8. Clean the disks with Windex 9. Remove excess brake fluid from the surfaces Here is what has not been mentioned: 1. Replace the rear pads to match the friction level of the fronts (this will keep the front/back bias in factory spec) 2. Blow out all the hole in the disk 3. Inspect the disk for minimum thickness wear/cracks 4. Bevel the pads on a grinder to prevent the rotor shelf (caused by wear) from touching the pad Here is my report to date: 1. Replaced the fluid and bleed 2. Removed and sanded the pads and disk 3. Ran 1 day DE at NJ Motorsport’s Lightning circuit 4. The disk has been inspected and exceeds the minimum wear and have no craks My conclusions: 1. All my disks are in good condition and does not need to be replaced. 2. The beautiful red paint on my calipers have been cosmeticaly damaged by inept shop repair staff! 3. The performance of the Textar pads is less effective than the original Brembo pads that came with the car. 4. Brembo replacement pads are not sold in the US. 5. Textar pads, though sold as “OEM Porsche” pads are, in fact, not OEM Porsche parts but, a substitute part that are not the same as the original pads that came with my car. 6. The bias between the fronts and rears has been changed due to the less effective Textar pads. 7. I am surprised that mine are the first findings that have come up on this forum. 8. Perhaps many owners replace their pads with the higher friction Hawks or Pagid and not the inferior Textar pads. I plan to see if I can source the Brembo pads from an associate in Italy where they are manufactured. If not then, I’ll start a new thread on which non-track pads offer similar stopping characteristics as that of the Brembos. Thanks to everyone for your creative solutions, -Stevie

Re: UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? If you require longer/more effort to come to complete stop after you've "bedded" the pads, you may not have bedded them properly. Once bedded in, the pads should grab. If you feel the car now takes longer and more effort, you may want to check the pads to see if they're glazed. You can take a metal file and file away the top layer of the pads and rebed them. For bedding procedure, personally I prefer to bed with fast/quick method - bring car up to 65 - 70mph, threshold brake to 20 - 30mph. Do that continuously 5 or 6 times. Obviously, find a safe place so not to get into any trouble. I've changed and beded brand new pads with the above procedure on my A4 (3200lbs car running Boxster calipers) without touching rotors or fluid. Then within an hour, hopped on to Watkins Glen for a day of DE.

Re: UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? After reading all this and reading responses saying there is little or no difference between Textar and Brembo pads, I stronly suspect that ... the pads are either glazed or are not seating flat on the rotors. If the rotors are used and you just replaced pads only, the rotors aren't flat on their surface. Sometimes, there is an edge on the rotors where the old pad didn't touch and sometimes the surface where the old pads touched has become grooved. The flat pad surface then only mates with these high spots. If you bed the pad in too fast, you'll burn the pad and rotor on the high spots and the low spots still don't touch. ... or these inept mechanics that mucked up your red calipers also contaminated the new pads with brake fluid, grease or some other automotive liquid lying around their shop. Having done brakes myself, I can tell you for sure that pads soaked in brake fluid will never work right. I'm thinking that Porsche would not call Textars "OEM pads" if they didn't work well. -Six

Re: UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? I agree with "Six" above. Something is wrong wtih the bedding, mating with the rotor, or installation. I use the Textar pads - they are OEM, and my car came equipped with them. Many cars come from the factory with them, and I prefer them to the other OEM offerings. I realize this is heresy, but I use them on the track, too - even though I drive in the advanced/instructor groups, I find them to be just fine. I know a lot of people say they go through the OEM pads in one or two track days, but mine last a long time... 7-8 track days, easily - sometimes more - but then I don't use my brakes that much, I guess. I get plenty of bite and stopping power, no fade, they're easy on the rotors, and my lap times are as good or better than comparable cars with track pads. brad

Re: UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? Just my .02 cents...paid my way through college and then some as a professional mechanic. Rule of thumb is to never replace pads without turning the rotors. If the rotors cannot be turned (due to damage or inadequate thickness) they need to be replaced. A lot of DIY's skip the rotors and can often get away with it. But believe me, if you're doing at least a couple of sets a day, six days a week, it's foolish to short-cut the job. Just results in a lot of unhappy customers. spm,cpa

Re: UPDATE: Replaced Brembo with Textar. What Happened? I'm not saying you're wrong, since you did pay your way through school as a mechanic and I didn't. Though I wonder if shops "require" these added service to increase their profit margin - corporate greed at its best . A modern day example is tire shops selling "nitrogen fill", claiming better tire life and less "blow out". Seriously?

After lots of calls and dealer visits my braking feel has improved a little but still not as good as before replacing the Brembos with the Textars. It is interesting that all dealers insist on replacing the rotors with the pads. So here is my latest theory: Due to the long mileage before pad replacement (and tons of confirmations that the Textars compounds are virtually the same as the Brembos ), I now suspect that the rotor has, not only worn grooves but, has gone out of parallel. Let me explain… At first, I thought the bedding process was needed to mate the grooved rotor surface with the un-grooved surface of the new pad. Now I believe that, after 40k miles, the surface of the rotor has worn unevenly (i.e. the middle surface is more worn than the outer surface) and has gone out of parallel in relationship with the parallel surface of the pad. This has prevented the pad from properly bedding with the surface of the disk, resulting in a greater pedal pressure required to overcome the uneven rotor . I think that cutting the rotor back to true vertical (or replacement altogether) will resolve my issue. The only thing is, several hundred miles have bedded the pad toward (but not completely) matching the uneven rotor , and thus may require replacement as well. Thanks, -Stevie

Fresh fluid for track use - Motul 600 Pads appropriate for track use - Yellows

Re: Replaced Brembo with Textar. RESOLVED? After several long phone discussions with dealers who advised changing the rotors at the end of the pad life, I decided to replace my rotors with a used set of Performance Frictions that I picked up on this sites classifieds and.. my word what a difference! When I placed the PF rotor back to back with the OEM rotor, you can SEE the wear on the outer surface area was out of parallel with the inner surface. Apparently, the old pads had worn after 40K miles to match the rotor surface. The new replacement pads were true and parallel and, under braking exerted most of it surface only against the inner portion of the rotor. I did not get full friction until I overcame the initial inner surface (thus feeling the mush) before the entire rotor surface came in contact with the new pad. New rotors after 40k miles made a world of difference in this case. Relieved, -Stevie

Thanks for the follow up. Interesting solution to the problem. I'll definitely file this tidbit away for future reference.

Re: Replaced Brembo with Textar. RESOLVED? Stevie: This is why they tell you to go easy on braking with new pads...especially with old rotors. Because so little of the pad makes contact with the rotors, it's easy to burn the pads or get one part of the rotor too hot and cause warping when stopping the car from even moderately high speeds. So the best thing is to stop firmly from lower speeds and avoid high speed stops until the pedal starts to feel firm, then gradually increase speed letting the rotor cool a little between stops. New rotors and new pads are best and much easier to break in because the contact area is bigger.