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YOUR RESEARCH987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
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Adjust camber setup pr tech made a while back
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The tyres are wearing well with the adjusted camber setup PR Tech made a while back with this being the 5th day on the A050 Mediums (2 wet days) and they look like they have 4+ days left in them without being rotated yet.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
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Leading evidence: 'Adjust camber setup pr tech made a while back' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'coolest thing' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust camber setup pr tech made a while back' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I’ve already installed the FVD tune on the car which went well.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Install on the
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987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Install using this guide (
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The Diff is now in and a PSM disable switch installed using this guide (
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Replace clutch and flywheel
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987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
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Adjust camber setup pr tech made a while back
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The tyres are wearing well with the adjusted camber setup PR Tech made a while back with this being the 5th day on the A050 Mediums (2 wet days) and they look like they have 4+ days left in them without being rotated yet.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Adjust rear bar
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Suggestion · Original poster
I’m not advanced enough to do an accurate Front Roll Couple calculation including spring rates and I really just wanted to maximise adjustability relative to a stock Cayman S sway bar setup which this setup seems to achieve along with the ability to adjust the rear bar for tracks like SMSP South where I want more oversteer.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Adjust sub strap
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Suggestion · Original poster
The harness it is a 6 point, on previous cars I used eye bolts and clips but as I had a 996 GT3 seat I just purchased a 986/987 Porsche specific HANS belt which allowed us to use the seat mounting locations for the crotch straps and the sub strap mounting to the seat using the Porsche harness sub mount bar they sell for the GT3 sliders (996.521.933.90) which moves up and down when you slide the seat so you don't have to adjust the sub strap when you slide the seat or have it too loose/tight.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Clean car rather than something
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Suggestion · Original poster
PR Tech looked at the car and said it was basically too nice to be modified as they could only find one mechanical issue which will cost ~$300 to fix so that made me very happy as I want to start with a clean car rather than something that has been thrashed.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Inspect wheels
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Suggestion · Original poster
I am one of those people that removes wheels after every track day to inspect the wheels for cracks as I have had issues in the past with track wheels cracking and I’m a bit of a safety freak.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
Recommend a lot of people say
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Suggestion · Original poster
Definitely would recommend, a lot of people say to get an 80/20 style rig for the unlimited configuration choices but to me they are a bit too much of an eyesore for my home office.
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
obvious statement
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Suspected cause · Original poster
At a minimum though It’s pretty clear that front & rear GT3 LCA’s are basically mandatory if youwant decent R-Spec Tyre life and maybe even front camber plates in addition (probably an obvious statement to many)
987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could
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64 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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Generation: 20261027T061840Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
On the MX5 forums I had a 16 page thread on the build of my previous track car so I thought I’d start a thread here to document the build and running of the 987.2 Base Boxster I purchased about 2 months ago. It was sort of on impulse as the price was right (very motivated seller!) and while I would of preferred a Manual base Cayman they seem to go for 20k more than I paid for this car so for my purposes I compromised.
I’m not sure if many people know it but on the base 987.2 you get the same size brakes as the S (in black instead of red), it has a 6 speed unlike the 987.1 base cars which had a 5 speed and the base car also has a shorter 1
st
, 2
nd
, 5
th
and 6
th
than the S which makes it a great track candidate compared to previous base models which weren’t as good. Combine that with the 9A1 engine with multiple oil pickups and no IMS for track reliability and I think it makes a good track candidate if you don’t care about the extra power.
Here is what it looked like on pickup day next to my NC2 MX5 street car (lightly modded - Ohlins, 4.1 Final Drive, sway bars)
PR Tech looked at the car and said it was basically too nice to be modified as they could only find one mechanical issue which will cost ~$300 to fix so that made me very happy as I want to start with a clean car rather than something that has been thrashed.
Since pickup I did some minor changes like changing the side intakes to black, changing to coloured crests on the wheels, putting the 981 version Boxster badge on the back and fixing up the paint so it looks nice, here’s how it stands today
I previously owned a 981 Boxster S with PDK which was an incredible car but honestly the chassis of the 981 is almost too good (much more refined than the 987) and the PDK makes it less involving. The price of the 981 was also something I was conscious of because for me it would be an expensive car to bin on the track.
In terms of motorsport I’m coming primarily from the MX5 world so HP isn’t really something I need much of but this car having around 65% more power than the MX5 is a definite plus! Before I got into the MX5 I had a 300kw Evo 10 and I learnt after I got the MX5 that I don’t need all of the HP to have fun.
My previous 2006 NC1 MX5 (Exhaust, Tune + tons of suspension/safety mods)which I built over 5 years was the best thing I ever had as I really learnt to drive on the track in it doing >50 track days in it. It did good times around circuits for what it is but nothing that is competitive with you Porsche guys.
Previous MX5 times (104kw of fury!):
SMSP GP - 1:50.94
SMSP South - 1:03.58
Wakefield Park - 1:09.87
Here’s a picture of my old NC1 MX5 out on track and a picture of the interior (very street car with it’s weld in cage).
The plans for the Boxster is to just sort out the suspension, chuck on some Z221’s and probably put a tune on it to increase the rev limiter by 200RPM (7300>7500RPM) which will be very helpful to boost it up above the base Cayman power (just over 200kw) given the Boxster got a bit gimped by Porsche on the software side.
Unfortunately the car has already seen a tilt tray on a recent drive with some guys from this forum when the shifter cable broke but that was all sorted, let’s hope that’s the last tilt tray it sees for a while…
I already have a few parts ready to go on:
- Apex SM-10 Wheels (Porsche specific fitment) - 18x8.5 +50 & 18x10 +36
- Porsche Short Shift Kit
- GT3 Brake Master Cylinder
- Aim Solo 2 DL Datalogger (need to buy a CAN adaptor as I only have OBDII currently)
The list of other mods I have planned are:
- GT3 LCA’s
- Ohlins Coilovers (or similar)
- Front & Rear Sway bars (likely GT3 Front, Tarett rear)
- Brake pads (probably Pagid RS29's)
- LSD (undecided on brand - Quaife, Guard, OS-Giken etc..)
- Safety mods (seat & HANS harness)
I’m just waiting to get a quote for the extra parts + labour for everything to go on so I can get started.
The total cost for this build is going to be over half of what I paid for the car but I’m of the ‘do it once, do it right’ train of thought rather than doing things over time.
Hope to get this completed and see some of you guys out on the track soon!
Thought this also might be interesting for anyone contemplating a base 987.2 as one thing I really liked about the 987.2 base is the shorter gearing of 1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th but the thing that concerned me was that 2nd might be too short for the tracks so I did some calculations of gears based on vmin/vmax for the 3 tracks I most commonly go on which are Wakefield, SMSP South and SMSP GP Circuits.
I got most of the vmin the data from my Aim Data in my MX5 and cross referenced it with videos I found on Youtube (mainly iamcharliekay), surprisingly a lot of the vmins on corners in my MX5 seemed close and on the odd occasion faster but obviously the Vmax data was way off.
I did these calculations before I purchased the car by getting gear ratio and Final Drive ratio data but since purchasing the car I verified that it seems to be correct based on speed/RPM calculations.
It took me a couple of hours to do this but it will save me a ton of track time by taking the guess work out of which gear I should be in (if I don’t have enough revs I’m not going fast enough).
The thing that seems to be good about this car is for the most part I should be able to stay above 4k RPM with a very small amount of shifts on most of the tracks and even the corners, third just seems like it's perfectly geared.
Calculations:
Wakefield
Wakefield
SMSP GP
Looks like you are building up a good track car, you might also like to consider adding a Mantis Racing extended 2ltr sump and If you a removing the gear box to fit a LSD, you could also fit a static crankshaft bearing that fits behind the rear main oil seal.
Thanks for the tip!
To be honest I have considered mods like an extended sump or other mods like a sump baffle that one shop suggested but I think I'm going to leave it as-is and log the data (I can get Oil Temp and Oil Pressure logged onto my AIM Datalogger via CAN) to see if I've got an issue that needs to be addressed before I fork out the money especially since it doesn't seem to be a big issue on the 987.2.
Got my first track day done in the Boxster today at a very wet Wakefield park. The car is still completely stock and on the Michelin PS3 road tyres but I figured given the rain the stock tyres and brake pads would be ok and I can just take it pretty easy while learning how the car goes.
Managed to keep it on the black stuff all day with no major slides or skids so I was happy to go home with a straight car, the BMW guys were much more enthusiastic and I got to see a lot of power sliding!
I have to say I am very impressed with the handling of the car and it’s feel is way better than the 981’s electric steering. I only had one slight slide when I messed up a blip before turn 2 where the back of the car got a bit squirrelly and I could feel the weight transfer, definitely made me realise I still have to learn how to drive a mid-rear car.
The only negatives were the stock brake pedal which has way too much travel on the track but this should get fixed by the GT3 Brake Master Cylinder which will go on with the other mods along with uprated pads, it wasn't the end of the world but it did force me to use my full heel to blip rather than just doing a slight roll off the brake pedal which I'm used to. The only other negative is the shift mechanism having too much side to side play making it hard to easily find second for the slower corners but the short shift kit should fix that too.
I was 6 seconds off the pace of the top guy so I wasn't that quick, nor was it a race but I managed to bet 5th out of the 62 people there which I thought goes to show how good these things handle out of the box (unfortunately they put my car down as an MX5 given I registered with that car)
Well it’s a very real build now after ordering all of the parts around a week ago. The only thing I haven’t ordered is a diff for the car as I’m still waiting on a quote for that.
After looking at the spreadsheet of costs I have, I’ve already gone slightly over what I thought this build was going to cost when I add in the assumed costs for labour + small things like fluids but as usual I went ‘why not’ on a few things like rear LCA’s which I didn’t really need and extra safety things like a GT3 bucket seat and Porsche specific Schroth Harness rather than using existing safety gear.
Here is the final part list which I’ve purchased.
Suspension:
Ohlins Road & Track Coilovers
Swift 9kg Coilover springs (for rear)
Tarett GT3 Front LCA with OEM Rubber Bushings
Tarett GT3 Rear LCA with OEM Rubber Bushings
Tarett Rear GT Series Sway Bar (19.1mm, 4 Pos Adjustable)
Tarett Rear Drop Links
Porsche Cayman S Front Sway bar
Tarett Rear Toe Control Arm
Tarett Locking Plate Kit, For Adjustable Toe Link
Brakes:
TRW GT3 Brake Master Cylinder (same as Porsche OEM)
PAGID RS29 Pads
Software:
FVD Tune
AIM Solo 2
DL + CAN Connector
Safety:
996 GT3 Bucket Seat with Harness Cross bar
Porsche 996/997 Schroth HANS Harness
Tyres:
Apex SM-10 Wheels (Porsche specific fitment) - 18x8.5 +50 & 18x10 +36
Hankook Z221 235/40/18 & 265/35/18
I’ve already installed the FVD tune on the car which went well. The rev limiter is now 200RPM higher at 7500RPM and the throttle is now more responsive plus the dip as the car comes on cam seems
to be gone. I wouldn’t normally bother with
a tune on an N/A car but
with the Boxster being gimped by 7kw under the Cayman and the tune making a claimed 10kw over that it didn’t seem like a ton of money for 17kw. That is the last modification for the car though engine wise as I don’t need more power. The only issue I have is the throttle might be too responsive but I’ll see how it goes at the track.
Got the tyres fitted on the
wheels as well which I think look pretty good, I settled on 235/265 tyres to start with due to the current shortage in stock but I will move up to 245/285 for the next set.
The big decision is black centre caps or silver, will have to look at it when it’s on the car to decide.
Here’s the GT3 seat I picked up, wouldn’t have normally purchased a Porsche seat but for $1500 with the sliders it was too good to pass up
The only thing I had a hard time deciding on was sway bars as I want to minimise the amount of sway bar I run (I’d rather use springs to control roll). I ended
up deciding to uprate the springs by ~1kg on each end on the Ohlins which should still be ok on the stock valving (put the 8kg rears on the front and put a new set of 9kg rears on the car), upgrade to the Cayman S front sway on the front bar which is the same as what the Cayman R runs and put on an Tarett adjustable rear bar that maximises the range of understeer/oversteer I can dial into the car relative to stock Cayman S bars.
I found it really fascinating the number of bars that Porsche has for different configurations of the car. If you have PDK you get a softer rear bar, if you have PDK + LSD you get a stiffer rear bar, if you have manual + LSD you get stiffer again etc.. with differing rates between base and S models.
I have a big spreadsheet comparing a large range of bars but ended up deciding that the Tarrett small 19.1 bar was near perfect for the rear of the car as I should be able to get plenty of adjustability out of it. I’m not advanced enough to do an accurate Front Roll Couple calculation including spring rates and I really just wanted to maximise adjustability relative to a stock Cayman S sway bar setup which this setup seems to achieve along with the ability to adjust the rear bar for tracks like SMSP South where I want more oversteer.
If I end up needing the highest setting of rear bar then I'll either put on even stiffer rear springs or put the fronts back to the stock spring and if I need more stiffness from the bars then I will upgrade to a 997.2 GT3 front bar which will add in additional stiffness at both ends plus adjustability but I’d prefer the simplicity of a single adjustable rear bar if I can as I hate having too many variables.
Here’s the comparison I did (not perfect as it's hard to find exact wall thickness etc.. for sway bars, but good enough for me):
Nice shot from a couple of weeks ago too at the cars first track day, shows how small it is!
Jeez you're going for it. Nice work mate
👍
First rule when building a car: Don't have a spreadsheet. Second rule: Double your expenditure expectations
😅
Sage advice
😂
Luckily the better half is understanding of my sickness.
Thanks, yeh I'm leaning towards the black centres too, less OEM looking and I think will match the black car + calipers
Picked my Boxster up from PR Tech today ready for its first track day at SMSP GP tomorrow and all I can say is wow! The quality of the PR Tech workshop really impressed me along with the professionalism and knowledge of all of the guys there who worked on the car over the last couple of weeks.
It just feels amazing to drive with it being far more responsive to steering inputs while still feeling relatively comfortable despite it now having springs 3x stiffer than stock which is what I should have expected out of the Ohlins dampers but wasn’t sure (I went even stiffer than originally planned with 475lb Front and 550lb rear + Tender springs ) I guess the compromise of sticking with the GT3 rubber bushings rather than going to monoball helps that as well.
The Brake master cylinder and RSL1 brake pads makes the brake pedal very firm when driving around town but I did a couple of hard braking tests and as everyone said the pedal goes down much less than stock making it much easier to heel and toe (this will be even more pronounced on the track in the big braking zones).
I’d never seen a 987 Boxster with a welded in harness bar before but PR Tech had done one before and I was very happy with the work their fabricator in making one which doesn’t inhibit the seat movement on the passenger side and which also should not really alter the stock look if I ever put the stock seat back in for a trip somewhere like Tasmania.
All of the datalogging gear is in the car also with the harness bar creating the perfect place to mount
the SmartyCam, I still need to get the PR tech to guys to get it setup to from CAN rather than OBDII next time I go back so I can get steering angle/Oil Pressure/Oil Temp, wheel speed etc.. which don’t come out of OBDII.
[/img]
I’ve got 7 track days coming up over the next two months including 4x SMSP GP days, 2x Wakefield days and 1x SMSP South day so I should have a good feel for the car soon. The
only
downside is
that the data to guide setup will
be a bit flawed because we are still waiting on the Drexler LSD to
come in which will change the setup but I already purchased the next set of tyres which are A050's with a slightly wider front tyre to offset the LSD's push a little bit
Boxster is looking great
@rego
.
+1. The guys at PR have helped me out several times (and I have read several others on PFA too), so good work relying on their expertise.
I'm very jealous of the fun you're going to have with it at the upcoming 7 trackdays - Dayyumm that sound good.
Thanks guys for that, absolutely loving it!
Got back from the track earlier (it was just a morning event,) the car was turned 1:48's in every session from the second and felt very composed.
Today was more about acquiring data so I tried a bunch of different lines in the corners, plus different gears like second at Turn 2/Turn 9 etc.. which I'll analyse before Wednesday when I'm back out there to implement what seems to be the fastest way around.
Looks like the best rolling lap was a 1:46.6 and the theoretical is in the 1:45's so there is plenty for me to understand about the fastest lines from the data I already have.
The PSM light was flashing on all of the tight bends to tell me it was braking the inside tyre despite it being off which tells me the diff will be a very welcome addition when I get it in a few weeks time to lay the power down out of the corners. I've read that some people put a switch on the yaw sensor to disable it completely which is something I'll consider if it keeps doing this following the diff going in.
Here's the 1:48.34 lap I did in the second session, I had some problem with the Aim overlay so excuse the lack of brake/RPM data. You can also see me putting my hand down to shift gears where I'm used to shifting in other cars
😂
Thanks mate, lots of learning to do in this car!
Also had this video of my brown undies moment at T1. After 30-40 track days at SMSP I have never touched the dirt so this was a good reminder of me needing to respect the track and not do dumb stuff like picking up the throttle before the Apex (bad line) and then lifting off too quickly!
Luckily I didn't end up on the inside wall like so many have done.
Nice work!
I like the detail in your build, 1:48's with potential for 1:45/6's is very impressive!
PR Tech have been very good to me over the years too, especially with their focus on motorsport.
Got out again on Wednesday and had a good time but couldn't break out of the 1:48's. Both a combination of me not being consistent enough and a few laps when the tyres were right but I ran into traffic.
There were a couple of instructors there I trusted to do a reference lap but unfortunately they aren't able to get out in customers cars at the moment. Boz said he'd do a lap next weekend at Wakefield so I guess I'll see then where the pace is and get a professional opinion on the setup.
I'm really in love with the car, it's the perfect step up from the MX5 as a track car in that it's fast
enough to allow me to turn slightly faster times and actually overtake people but not enough power that it compensates for
poor corner exits.
Oh and word of warning for anyone considering PagID RSL1 pads, they are insanely loud! I normally don't mind sound and I've run a lot of aggressive 'track only' pads over the years but these things are on another level for sound, even more so than the 29's!
Couple of cool pics from the day:
Thanks mate. Yeh, I actually live really close to Autohaus so they would be the natural option but PR Tech to me seem to have that extra edge on Motorsport knowledge like you say.
Good stuff!
I found SMP GP circuit needs you to be super invested into it, I never quite spent the same amount of time finessing it there like I did at Wakefield with my 7.1 GT3, so I didn’t get the results, the guys who did, did it a lot and saw the gains... next time (car) round I will... but I am really tempted to follow in your footsteps and get another Boxster or cayman to beat on track.
Also, I think the
fear factor
is a bit higher there, more speed and more concrete to keep you honest and in check
😂
Agreed, SMSP GP is a confidence track which takes a lot of skill to drive well and demands respect. Have rarely seen a cheap crash there.
Yeh, get one! Prices are up a little at the moment due to COVID but I reckon these 987.2 cars are great value as a track car especially the Boxster S manual models at ~50k if you can do the soft top thing. I guess the main downside though is it would be a bitch to sell if you mod it and don’t part it out as no-one wants a track Boxster
😂
I definitely am not opposed to the soft top life!!
😎
It’s crazy with Covid and all, literally the reverse has occurred to what the speculation was early on.... people are getting busy living, that’s for sure!
Ill see you at the track one of these days soon no doubt.
👍
Went out to a Trackschool day at Wakefield today and managed to turn a 1:09.36 which was a but slower than expected but I had a ton of fun driving the car, the extra weight compared to the MX5 is far more noticable at Wakefield than SMSP which is something I need to get used to.
I had one of the instructors go out and turn a lap for me to get some reference data plus feedback on the car, he took it pretty easy and managed a 1:08.56 (after doing a 1:08.63 the previous lap) and said that if he pushed it (using kerbs, driving more aggressively) the car could pretty easily go into the 7's.
His feedback was that the car was well balanced but really needed the traction control completely disabled as it is interfering very badly in accelerating out of the tight corners causing a ton of lost lap time which was my thought as well but I wasn't 100% sure that it wasn't just me taking shitty lines causing the PSM to intervene despite it being 'off' so it was validating to get that feedback.
I think I'm going to leave traction control as-is for the moment and when the diff comes in a few weeks I'll also put a switch on the yaw sensor to allow me to completely disable traction control as I won't have any use for it anymore (it's currently braking the inside tyre on tight corners to make up for the lack of diff).
I'm absolutely loving the new Race Studio 3 beta that allows side by side video analysis, it definitely makes it easy to compare laps and visualise where I'm going wrong, I uploaded a video showing it working comparing my lap with the instructors (it cuts off the video just before the end as you can see which is a bit annoying but the last half second isn't that important anyway).
I still think the Racelogic is superior at the moment in video analysis but I've been an AIM user for a long time so I'm much more comfortable using the software which is a big thing for me as I can break laps down in a few minutes these days and figure out where I'm losing time.
There are a bunch of mistakes in my driving like braking too early and double pumping the throttle on occasion but It's pretty clear looking at the data and GPS traces that the biggest loss was on turn 5 where I'm turning in a bit too early which is a mistake that carries all the way to the fish hook so that is something that I am working on addressing.
Heading out again next Monday so hopefully can sort some issues out and get the time down.
Rego
i am late to the party on this thread. Doesn’t seem that long ago you were referring 987.2s for me before accidentally buying this one.
can you post some decent photos on the harness bar interface to the std hoops. Is it a clean job or hard to disguise it has been welded?
assume bottom harness are off bolt in eyelets into the std mount points or have you drilled new eyelet mount holes with the screw in underside backplate. Are you running a crotch strap or just 4 point?
what was the cost of the harness bar fitted?
Dude I got one of these in NZ. I've lowered it, adjustable suspension, louder pipe, wheels / tyres. I've tracked the crap out of it back in March. 4 tracks in the South Island and about 3,000 klms of FAST road driving in 10 days. Done a few track days at Hampton Downs too. Can't say enough good things about them. An absolute blast and frankly I was looking for a Cayman too but I reckon the Boxster is better. It's a ragtop-first chassis and it's more than good enough and you get all the benefits of roof down motoring which is a gas. In fact I've done every track day with the roof down including in the rain. They absolutely rock and I'm so glad to see someone else who's onto them. Cheers.
Yeh, has been a quick process to get to here!
Here is a zoomed in photo of where it was welded on, unfortunately the seat belt is in the way of the top part in this photo but I can take a better photo later in the week if you want one.
I think they did a great job of it and PR Tech had an in-house fabricator do the work. It's obvious that it's been added as that small black section is on the bar but I don't think it will stand out too much when the stock seat goes back inside the car and it doesn't restrict movement of the seat because it sits flush with the carpet just above the 'hump'.
The harness it is a 6 point, on previous cars I used eye bolts and clips but as I had a 996 GT3 seat I just purchased a 986/987 Porsche specific HANS belt which allowed us to use the seat mounting locations for the crotch straps and the sub strap mounting to the seat using the Porsche harness sub mount bar they sell for the GT3 sliders (996.521.933.90) which moves up and down when you slide the seat so you don't have to adjust the sub strap when you slide the seat or have it too loose/tight.
Not sure on the cost exactly as it was in with all of the rest of the work.
That's awesome, likewise I'm loving seeing someone else enjoying one of these things!
Agree they are definitely a good combination car. I think an Elise would probably be a better track car for the $ but as a car you can drive long distances comfortably and still have a ball on the track I don't think you can beat one of these for the money.
Got out to SMSP South circuit today with the BMW club, managed a 1:03.99 so I just eeked into the 1:03’s getting me to 10th on the day out of 62.
This is the first track I have been slower than my MX5 but it was also the track where the lack of an LSD showed up the most, PSM was intervening everywhere despite being 'off' which was sort of disappointing but somewhat expected due to how much you need to load the car in corners to do times at South Circuit and the tight nature of it.
Unfortunately the video corrupted on the SD card so my video is not to be either. Next week is the week
as the Drexler diff goes in and I get a fresh set of A050’s put on the car ready for the BMW/Porsche GP circuit day on the 31st!!
After 5 track days post some info on a couple of things I’ve got some opinions on in my short life with this car
Titanium lug bolts:
I am one of those people that removes wheels after every track day to inspect the wheels for cracks as I have had issues in the past with track wheels cracking and I’m a bit of a safety freak.
I changed to titanium lug bolts mainly for the looks (no rust) but something I have noticed is a lot of thread galling on the bolts so I’m going to go back to the OEM Porsche bolts and just use the titanium bolts when I’m using street wheels where I want the car to look pretty. Not sure I would really recommend titanium bolts to anyone with a track car based on what I’ve seen.
Camber on with R-Specs & Tyre wear:
I think I can give my initial thoughts on camber and tyre wear with R-Spec tyres given I've just gone through my first set of tyres, I’m currently running Hankook Z221’s which are due for replacement with uneven wear on the rear being the primary reason.
At the front with GT3 LCA’s max camber was -2.7degrees which appears to be slightly insufficient as the outside of the tyre is wearing a bit more than the inside. The difference isn’t massive and it can be evened out by flipping the tyre halfway through its life, but the car could still use another -0.3 degrees or so which will necessitate front camber plates which is my next step.
At the rear the car currently has needs a LOT more camber, probably .5 degrees or more to extend beyond the -2.5 it’s currently running as the outside edge is blistering pretty badly. I flipped the tyre after 2 track days but even after flipping it the other outside edge has just been destroyed.
I know my MX5 needed over 3 degrees of camber on Z221 and A050’s so I’m expecting to be well into the 3’s when I get this car dialled in, I’ll update this thread with the final settings I end up with. At a minimum though It’s pretty clear that front & rear GT3 LCA’s are basically mandatory if youwant decent R-Spec Tyre life and maybe even front camber plates in addition (probably an obvious statement to many)
Here is a photo of the outside edge blistering I saw on just the first day at SMSP GP:
I am not such a fan of South Circuit... not in a big heavy late model 911 anyway.
On the tyre wear, its interesting, as I was in the opposite boat, I started with aggressive camber settings but found ourselves dialling it out to approximately mid 2's which seemed optimal...
haha I'm the opposite, I LOVE South Circuit! I think that's because I come from the MX5 world though and it was the only place I could beat some Porsche's on
😁
I like it so much that I even made a tutorial 4 years ago for South Circuit which has over 3,000 views, a couple of people yesterday said they'd seen that and it helped them.
Your feedback on camber seems consistent with what some other people have said too with Porsche's but I was deep into the -3 range both front and rear on my MX5 which was a considerably lighter car and I'm normally easier on tyres than most people (I'd often get 8 or 9 days out of a set of Z221's or A050's).
I have inner, middle and outer pyrometer readings from every session I've done so far with the Boxster other than south circuit yesterday and the temps seemed to be relatively even on the front, but on the rear it was usually hotter on the outside and to an increased degree on the rear right at SMSP GP and rear left at Wakefield which is to be expected based on track direction. The maximum temperature I recorded was 81c on the outside rear right after a session on SMSP GP (I usually only do 1 warm up and 2-3 hot laps before pitting with no cooldown lap so I get correct temps). I also know on the MX5 I used to get even tyre wear with slightly less temp on the outside of the tyre than the inside/middle which is the opposite of what I'm seeing here.
The blistering may be caused by the car running Z221 softs which in my experience are somewhere between an A050 Soft and Medium in hardness (I wanted mediums but they were out of stock when purchasing due to Covid) and exceeding the tyres operating temperature range, however based on the fact that the tyres exhibited the same wear pattern after just being flipped on a day at Wakefield that had an 8 to 11 degree ambient temperature (I should take ground temps but don't) and the tyres exhibiting a normal wear pattern across the rest of the tyre, I am still of the opinion that it's a lack of camber that is the root cause but the compound is probably somewhat responsible for the degree at which it's worn on the edge.
Here's the video I made on South Circuit I mentioned:
MX5 + South Circuit makes sense! That would be fun..
Personally, I'd hold off on the camber changes prior to GP circuit and see how you go with the LSD & A050 mediums, I definitely got the blistering like you when I ran A050 'soft'
If it is not too late (and assuming you're not already doing it) a nice tyre wear management strategy that worked well for me was to have the tyres pre-scrubbed... they were more consistent and wore better, I found.
PS - What are your sway bar settings?
The Porsche/BMW Sprint is always a fun one...
Thanks mate. The car went into PR Tech today to have the Diff fitted, PSM disabled, service, A050's etc.. and they are going to do a minor change to camber but not too much. Interesting to hear that you saw similar blistering!!
I was never sure about that service they do to wear the tyres in, I didn't get it done this time but I might get the guys at Gordn Leven to do it next time I get a set.
For the sway bar setting I'm just using a normal Boxster/Cayman non-adjustable front sway bar (same bar is used up to the R I think) but the rear is a Tarett one and the setting I'm currently on is the second hole from soft (4 holes), I'm anticipating needing it to be a bit stiffer when the diff is in.
The Diff is now in and a PSM disable switch installed using this guide (
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-forum/1186935-psm-disable-switch-install-987-2-a.html
)
As usual PR Tech did a great job of finding a creative solution and they put the switch in the cigarette lighter area in the middle of the car to disable the PSM, good thing also is that I verified there is no light that stays on after I re-enable the PSM and it seems to just work as normal with a simple 'PSM Failure' message when it's off.
I had the opportunity to go and do some 'testing' of the car both in the dry(ish) as well as wet over the weekend and I have to say that the diff and PSM disable have transformed the car which I'm sure will be very noticeable on a dry track but was extremely striking on a wet road as the car no longer mutes inputs on the throttle when it detects wheelspin or performs brake vectoring when the back end starts coming out.
I was also impressed that there doesn't appear to be 'clunking' of the Drexler diff at low speed cornering like I've experienced with other clutch based differentials which required some friction modifier or specific oil to reduce.
ABS also is functioning when 'off' which was something I wanted to verify before I took the car to the track.
Will give my thoughts after I get a chance to track the car this weekend (hopefully in the dry) but for anyone looking to get rid of Porsche's electronic nannies this is the solution (also will save your rear brakes
😂
)
Nice snap from last weekend as well.
Thought I'd post some data around oil pressure as a shop that I considered going to were saying that I still need to put a sump baffle in a 987.2 due to oil pressure issues persisting in the 987.2 in high G corners.
From the data I can see, I am pulling up to 1.47g and there appears to be no correlation between high g's and pressure drops with the changes appearing to be correlated to RPM or throttle position where I can see a drop when I get off the throttle for extended periods and consistent spikes to around 60 psi/4.1 bar when I blip down to second for turn 2 which spikes the car to over 7k RPM and has a high amount of load on the engine.
The oil pressure on the car doesn't seem as high as the DFI cars but from what I found on the internet of other peoples data with the base 2.9 cars this seemed similar to the pressures they are getting.
Managed a 1:48.78 at the BMW/Porsche supersprint on Saturday which wasn't a PB but appears to be almost a second faster than the benchmark time for the Porsche Club of NSW where the previous benchmark time was a 1:49.71. It definitely wasn't the fastest day after all of the rain (speaking to others they were a couple of seconds off their usual pace) so hopefully next time with better track conditions and a change I've made to the rear sway bar I can put down a better time using this diff which made the car much easier to drive.
Nice one, the annual PCNSW + BMW might have been the last GP circuit event I ran (2018) I found it can be frustrating, what length sessions did they run?
I'd say that Lotus cost you at least a second there on T11
😛
Looking at the data, I think you can get full throttle a little earlier on T1, and the T2 line out hold the shoulder on exit to give you straighter shot
@ 3 apex,
Some nice driving, and I am thoroughly enjoying following this journey!
PS - I saw what Alex ran in his 718 s... its no longer a laughing matter taking a Boxster to the track is it now?
They said 10 minute sessions. To be honest I think it was run pretty well and grouped accurately, I enjoyed some good chats with
@donR
who I organised to share a garage with.
The only frustrating thing is I'm probably 50kw-150kw+ down on most people in my group so I got overtaken on every outlap except the last so my second lap was pretty much always compromised and if I try to leave space in front later in the session I'm susceptible to the same thing happening to me on the third lap.
You are 100% right about T1 and T2. I've been experimenting with a wider double apex at T2 vs a tighter line which is the fastest way round in the MX5. I think I need to maybe not be so tight so that I can stay further left on exit or just wait a bit longer so I can hug it like you say.
You can see in this data, compared to the previous 1:48.34 I did last time that I gave up about 0.8 of a second in T1 and entry of T2, as well as around 0.6 of a second due to my throttle lift just after corporate hill causing me to correct. There is much more time in the car, I just need to be more consistent.
Hope to see you out on the track sometime soon!
I thought the sessions were a bit short for beginnners. I was getting 3 to 5 laps which after warming up and a bit of traffic was really only 2 good laps at the most which isn't great if you don't know the track well and maybe 1 hour between sessions, but the timed categories did work pretty good and nice the mix of BMWs and Porsches made a great car show to look at.
Alex did a 1:47.39 in his boxster which is very impressive for a base car on a slow day! I had a quick chat to him and the only mods appeared to be semi-slick tyres. I notice he also drives a 3RS so I assume he is a good operator.
Really impressive time from Dan as well in his 987 Boxter.
Yeh I can see what you mean about the short sessions.
718's are super impressive and I think they are the future. In a few years time when they've started hitting the straps in terms of depreciation I think I'll have a 718 S track car.
Just a base 718 with just a tune is bolt on 981 Cayman S power with all of the benefits of turbo vs N/A and an S/GTS with a tune is 718 GT4 power.
Saw your other thread looking for GT3 Buckets. Not sure on the situation for 718's but I'd look into just disabling the seat airbags and running normal race seats, I know in my 987 once the seat airbag was disabled I can swap my race seat with the stock seat and plug it in to still get full electric seat functions with the only drawback being that the seat airbag is disabled and the airbag light flashes 8 times every time I turn the car on before it turns off.
You can also just buy Audi sliders which are identical to the 996 sliders which I believe still fit the 718 and are far cheaper than the Porsche ones along with some Brey Krause mounts to mount on top of OEM porsche sliders. The part numbers for the sliders are Driver (RHD) 8N0881184 Passenger (RHD) 8N0881183. If you just wanted a drivers seat you could swap in and out you could buy a Velo seat, slider and mount for probably 1.5k (far cheaper than GT3 buckets).
I'll be offloading my GT3 seat soon as I don't really see the need to be wearing it out when I can just put a generic seat in.
I agree a generic race seat is the way to go and a lot cheaper! My problem is I've been told legally I'm not meant to reduce the safety features on the car by installing a seat without a side airbag as it already comes with one. So it is a bit of a delema!
Yeh fair enough. For me it's a risk decision and I'm happy to compromise with just having door and steering wheel airbags.
To keep to the letter of the law you should also replace your Cup 2's after 1 or 2 track days given legal tread depths
😉
Yup, it's bloody impressive... yes on the 3RS, although I cant keep up with him, he changes GT cars like underwear! But a lovely down to earth guy, and good company, a good ambassador for the PCNSW motorsport fraternity IMO.
Got out for my first day of the year last weekend at a Trackschool event.
Great to be out on track but it was really hot at 36 degrees! So with no good times to be had I figured I'd take the opportunity to learn how to left foot brake in a real car after honing my skills in the virtual world over the past couple of months as well as try to fix up my trail braking.
Reviewing the data I seem to be slightly faster through T9 and T5 with left foot braking but through T3 I appear to be slower than right foot braking. In T10 I seem to have made a bunch of time with trail braking (surprisingly I was consistently faster by 0.2 seconds than my prior speeds on a cool day!)
I built a proper sim rig in November and invested a ton of time into racing on iRacing, any one on the fence looking to improve their driving should definitely get one.
Currently hovering around 1500 - 1650 irating, pretty much exclusively racing the MX5's as I still don't feel solid enough to need a faster car and am still a fair way off the truly fast guys (have been in top split a few times and consistently have my ass kicked!)
The only issue is that I am now hankering to buy a car to race wheel to wheel.
Probably the coolest thing that has happened is Fernando Alonso being put into the MX5 race I was in this week. He didn't bother qualifying and still came second with times nearly a second faster than the nearest competition!
It takes a while, but once you get used to left foot braking 100%, you'll never go back.
Works a treat in the wet, as you can modulate the transition from braking to accelerating by getting on the gas with a little brake pressure and less wheelspin.
I’ve got the perfect spot in my new post-COVID home office for one of these, or an exercise bike...I know which one I need, but torn on which I want...
😂
Yeh, it seems like a really great skill to learn. I found it hard to get the same feeling in the feet though.
Do it! Definitely would recommend, a lot of people say to get an 80/20 style rig for the unlimited configuration choices but to me they are a bit too much of an eyesore for my home office.
This TR8 rig seems to be able to handle basically anything you want wheel and pedal wise with no shake at all.
Also went for these Fanatec V3 Inverted pedals which match the Porsche pedal configuration.
Got out to a Trackschool day at Wakefield yesterday and cracked a PB, getting down to a 1:08.48 (1:08.49 on Natsoft).
I managed a ton of 1:08's and even in the last session of the day I managed 2 1:08 laps making me feel good about consistency.
John Boston drove the car and gave me some setup feedback, I need to get an upgraded front sway bar in the car to balance it out which I'll have PR Tech action.
The tyres are wearing well with the adjusted camber setup PR Tech made a while back with this being the 5th day on the A050 Mediums (2 wet days) and they look like they have 4+ days left in them without being rotated yet.
Looking forward to the Porsche Club days later in the year on the South and Brabham circuits. I feel like this car is going to suit them well.
Bit of a thread resurrect, been a good read thank you.
@rego
How is the car going lately?
Good info on the specs and mods etc (I didn't know the 987.2 had the S brakes - does anyone know if this is the case for Cayman as well? Also heard rumours the base cars had the lower gearing but haven't been able to substantiate
Would the addition of factory Sport chrono (minus the clock of course) provide the PSM interference fix instead of having to place a yaw sensor switch and LSD? Dont hear of such noticeable interference on the S cars
Happy with the power still and any plans to extract a few more horses?
Loving the car. I came close to selling it but installed some spacers, had the height raised and camber reduced by PR Tech to make it more usable on the street, installed a Lithium battery and have put nearly 10,000km onto the car since the last update.
It's the same as the Cayman for the bigger brakes and it has the shorter second gear than the S. Not the best for the track as it is probably too short, but for the road having a 2nd that tops out at just over 100km makes the car much more involving to drive as you use both 2nd and 3rd.
I understand the Sports Chrono reduces interruption as it lets it go a little further but it doesn't eliminate the interruption. I'll be honest I don't think most people would notice the interruption too much and I think the lack of complaint is most people aren't aware it's working, I think the difference in lap time is well under half a second on a typical track and for bad drivers it possibly improves the time. I just hate the feeling myself and would rather a car that has no nannies to save me.
The LSD is so great though even on the street, I think that is the best mod I've done to the car outside of the coilovers, I think that would be worth some time on the track over braking the wheels which PSM does particularly with semi slicks.
No real plans to get more hp, I've considered headers for a bit more sound and hp but to be honest the car already has plenty of power for the street. It keeps up with the M and GT cars my mates have just fine due to the corner speed it can keep.
Here's a couple of pictures of the car in Dorrigo with the spacers:
Yeah awesome to read its working well as both street and track day car. My only hesitation with Cayman ownership has been the fact I want a manual shift, but thought the S was the only variant with enough grunt to satisfy. I've not drive a base model at all, but a good couple of drives in a PDK S, which I enjoyed (but still long gearing) and therefore concerned a base may be lacking in power and not much can be done to extract a bit more.
Manual S just don't seem to exist post 2009 and I wouldn't want an earlier model
Dilemma then became PDK S or Manual Base? (For similar use as you have, not a daily but fun weekender in the hills, and occasional track days)
Good thread bump
@Boxer
I really enjoyed this thread, and glad to hear you held onto it
@rego
was hoping I'd see you out at the PCNSW super-sprints this year, have you retired it from track, or just taking some time off?
I think you have to try one for yourself and make a decision, many people wouldn't be satisfied with the power of a base car but I think it's plenty to have fun and you get to ring it out.
I had a PDK 981 S before this car and I have way more fun in this car on the street.
Thanks
@edgy
, it will be back on the track next year. Just busy travelling with work and going on holidays this year so I decided to change it to a street spec.
I'm looking around for a 996 C4S Cab right now to use as a daily so the Boxster can stay in track mode.
Bumping this up to say that this car will be sold in Mid-February as I'm about to pull the trigger on a 991 GTS this month and I don't have enough garage space for both long term.
Currently the car is ~105,000km and while the car was tracked by me in the past it hasn't been for over 2 years (>15,000km) and everything you could want replaced has basically been replaced since the last time it saw a track.
All work done by PR Technology and they could vouch that the car has never had a dollar saved on it and I've never stopped them replacing anything even if slightly preventative:
Services in the last 2 years alone exceed $10,000 (have receipts from PR Tech) and there is nothing to spend on it - in the last 2 years significant items done include:
- Replaced Clutch and flywheel
- Reconditioned steering rack
- Replaced F/R castor arms
- Replaced tie rods
- Changed spark plugs
- Replaced drive belt
- RMS Replaced
For those that don't want to go back through this thread the car has some modifications, top notch parts and if you look them up, this is ~20k in parts alone and I'll supply the stock parts with the car:
-
Ohlins Road & Track Coilovers
- Drexler Mechanical LSD
- Tarett GT3 Front LCA's with OEM Rubber Bushings (now discontinued OEM 996 GT3 parts)
- Tarett GT3 Rear LCA's with OEM Rubber Bushings(now discontinued OEM 996 GT3 parts)
- Tarett Rear GT Series Sway Bar (19.1mm, 4 Pos Adjustable)
- Tarett Rear Drop Links
- Porsche Cayman S Front Sway bar
- Tarett Rear Toe Control Arm
- Tarett Locking Plate Kit, For Adjustable Toe Link
- TRW GT3 Brake Master Cylinder (same as Porsche OEM)
- FVD Tune
- Custom
Harness Cross bar
Also have some track parts:
- Apex SM-10 Wheels (Porsche specific fitment) - 18x8.5 +50 & 18x10 +36
- Porsche 996 GT3 Bucket Seat
- Porsche 996/997 Schroth HANS Harness
- Full set of
PAGID RS29 Pads
- Set of 4x new brake rotors
I'm going on holidays week after next, until mid-Feb when I'll officially post the ad on here, marketplace and CarSales. But if someone on the forum is interested in it sooner I'm happy to work on a deal.
After nearly 5 years of ownership this car is gone.
First to see it did buy it, car is now sold to
@wenta
. Was a sad day to see it go but it's gone to a good home and he's already been on a road trip enjoying the car.
Here is the last shot of it leaving.
Not all sad as I ended up with a Cayman GTS 4.0 to replace it.
A very different experience, but the car is amazing and I love the sound!
I'm heading off skiing for a couple of weeks, but when I'm back in mid-Feb there will be all the spare parts from the car up for sale.