Cayman Advice - Looking to buy possibly - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hello. I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot. Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring? So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc.. As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w e also. http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c... My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it. Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR. Alan

Hi, I have had a few TVRs (chimeara and T350T) but the last two cars have been Caymans. I only read the bad bits about the cars after purchase but as with TVR's problems are amplified by forums. During my TVR ownership I was prepared for an engine rebuild, clutch failure, big bill at service time etc. But I do see more Porsche threads now complaining about the cost of the 2 year (£500) service so the expectation from owners is different. The car you have linked to has 'achieved' 106k miles in its life! You could be unlucky, but there are people on here better than me who can advise on the basics to look for and what preventive measures can be taken. It does seem a shame when a cars value stops it being used for what it was intended, maybe one day I will want and buy a car that subsequently increases in value. But until then the Cayman is a great all round usable car.

Agreed. Had a few sessions in it around F1 SPA at SPA classics month or so ago, it was great. But rarity of it now and I just cant take the risk of someone else punting me off. Rare I know, but a chance. I also find I don't push it as hard cos of that reason, which is a shame. So just looking for something I can chuck around a bit more freely and properly push it. But I am worried it will break....

T4NGO said: Agreed. Had a few sessions in it around F1 SPA at SPA classics month or so ago, it was great. But rarity of it now and I just cant take the risk of someone else punting me off. Rare I know, but a chance. I also find I don't push it as hard cos of that reason, which is a shame. So just looking for something I can chuck around a bit more freely and properly push it. But I am worried it will break.... Why is this an issue if you have insurance? The risk is the same.

Insurance on a track is usually has a 10% value of car excess. Big difference between a 55k and a 14k car. Plus ease of replacement / parts. I do not want a cat d Sag, I am not worried about a cat d cayman / chimaera

T4NGO said: Hello. I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot. Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring? So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc.. As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w e also. http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c... My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it. Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR. Alan Slightly off beam, personally I would take a lot of convincing about the sense of tracking a car that I owned - unless it really was a track day car and I was doing a lot of days on track. I have a Cayman, but have decided to use Bookatrack R300 Caterhams for track days (absolutely no connection with them). Off season it is very cheap - you can't possibly track your own car comparably cheaply - and an R300 simply is a better track car than a Cayman by some margin. Regarding the reliability issues - trawl this forum and you will have plenty of pointers.

T4NGO said: Insurance on a track is usually has a 10% value of car excess. Big difference between a 55k and a 14k car. Plus ease of replacement / parts. I do not want a cat d Sag, I am not worried about a cat d cayman / chimaera I get that, but the rising value of the sag will offset that wont it? Even if it is used hard. As long as you maintain it properly. It seems a shame to sell a Sag, they are massive fun and you would probably struggle to ever get another!

That's the problem I have looked through here and I am more worried about failures than I was before I read all this. I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense. Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners?

T4NGO said: That's the problem I have looked through here and I am more worried about failures than I was before I read all this. I see no real problem tracking a car. Surely they were designed to be driven fast and you cannot do this properly on the road. But tracking a car that hasn't been made for 10 years and is losing numbers (think around 100-150 left) makes less sense. Besides all I really need to know, are the IMS / RMS / scoring issues real issues or exaggerated by non owners? They are certainly 'real issues', its just the level of risk of one of these failures happening that people dont agree on. I am not sure that anybody really knows apart from Porsche themselves.

mollytherocker said: I get that, but the rising value of the sag will offset that wont it? Even if it is used hard. As long as you maintain it properly. It seems a shame to sell a Sag, they are massive fun and you would probably struggle to ever get another! No panic, the Sag is going no where at all. The Cayman / Chimaera track wh0re is an addon, not a replacement

mollytherocker said: They are certainly 'real issues', its just the level of risk of one of these failures happening that people dont agree on. I am not sure that anybody really knows apart from Porsche themselves. Yeah. I am trying to gauge that. As non TVR people believe the engine is made of chocolate and will die the second you open a door, but in reality they are great and maintained, very reliable. I am just trying to figure out if the same applies here. People love to pull things apart and scare monger all too easily nowadays

T4NGO said: Yeah. I am trying to gauge that. As non TVR people believe the engine is made of chocolate and will die the second you open a door, but in reality they are great and maintained, very reliable. I am just trying to figure out if the same applies here. People love to pull things apart and scare monger all too easily nowadays The problem is that its a binary issue, it either happens to you during the time you own the car or it doesnt. The longer you keep the car, the higher the risk. The typical view tends to depend on whether its happened to you or not!

Is there a way to detect or pre-empt failure though? I did see a place advertising to do the RMS & IMS for about 1k. How on target is this or is it a possible DIY job. Looks like it is possible but requires some special tools in which case buying them and parts is going to be not a lot less. Especially if doing once and the problem is cured?

T4NGO said: Is there a way to detect or pre-empt failure though? I did see a place advertising to do the RMS & IMS for about 1k. How on target is this or is it a possible DIY job. Looks like it is possible but requires some special tools in which case buying them and parts is going to be not a lot less. Especially if doing once and the problem is cured? I am no expert, you should talk to Hartech about what can be done to reduce the risks. However, in basic terms; RMS - not an issue. Its just a seal that eventually leaks and can be done when the clutch is replaced. IMS - if it disintegrates it will trash the engine. You can get an uprated one fitted for approx £1k but it depends on the specific engine, some cant be done without splitting the engine, and then you might aswell do everything. Bore Scoring - caused by overheating in the area of pistons 5 and 6. You can fit a low temp thermostat an extra radiator and adjust your driving style. Most agree that its worth borescoping the engine of any potential purchase to see how scored they are. Theres loads of advice on Hartechs website which is well worth reading, but it might scare you!

T4NGO said: Hello. I currently have C220 Merc for mundane stuff and a TVR Sagaris as the 'nice' car/toy. Problem is the Sag is getting too valuable to track nowadays. So I was looking initially at an mx5 and turbo kit etc.. But over the years I've learned that instead of making a slow car fast, better to get a fast car to start with. So on that basis I'm looking at a Cayman. I know it won't be balls out Sag style but should still be a hoot. Problem I am having is the more I read about them, it seems they are more prone to breaking than TVR's?? What with RMS / IMS problems. I thought OK, skip the 2.7 and go for a 3.4 then they seem to suffer bore scoring? So, putting aside loyalties to your particular brand, this is a serious question. Are those issues real repeating issues? Or is it like the whole unreliable TVR myth just put out by non TVR owners. Are they able to be spotted and repaired properly before something big happens? As TVR's generally had failed engines, but that has all been fixed now and you can get rebuilds with 100k mile warranties etc.. As an example is this one any good? What are the options I should be looking at. As it will be a toy and track w e also. http://www.mastercarsales.co.uk/used-car-porsche-c... My budget is around 14k so I understand 06 / 07 Cayman. I'm not particularly keen on the Boxter, but (hard top) right price and options I might consider it. Failing all this I might just go get a Chimaera and stick to TVR. Alan In all honesty you are not really going to get much of a balanced answer to this although lots of posters on here have very strong views and will try to sway you one way or the other. I have spoken to various porsche specialist workshops who laugh when they hear of all the doom mongers on the net and told me they rarely see any failures in proportion to their many customers who have them. I tend to go with their knowledge considering they work on them all day every day, rather than listening to the many keyboard warriors on here and you can easily do that yourself including hartech. The only problem is they cannot give you the answer to the question you are looking for which is will YOUR car go pop. You could have it boroscoped and it might go pop 3 months later, its the luck of the draw. The only thing that does seem well established is that the gen1 cayman engine requires a lot of modifications if you are going to track it hard and regularly, including oiling modifications, a motorsport aos and they can suffer with overheating steering pumps. The Gen 2 car is far better suited to track work but obviously is going to push your budget.

ok, thanks I will speak to a few stealers. But to be honest I didnt think they would need modding to track them? That seems a bit odd as the Sag is ready to go and a lot of fun, none needed.

I saw this car the other day in the window as i drove past, but noticed it wasn't there this morning on the way to the station. Have you bought it?

T4NGO said: ok, thanks I will speak to a few stealers. But to be honest I didnt think they would need modding to track them? That seems a bit odd as the Sag is ready to go and a lot of fun, none needed. I am not referring to Porsche dealers, I am referring to Porsche specialist independent workshops, places like nine excellence, parr, hartech, etc. There are many gen 1 owners who 'occasionally' track their cars in totally standard form, but if you are tracking regularly and considering track specific mods like sticky tyres, lowered suspension etc then you have to start to think about engine specific mods, they can suffer oil starvation at high g, also they can blow smoke out the exhaust under high g due to the flimsy stock aos. You can read all about the suitability (or not..) of the gen 1 car for track work and the list of required mods on the planet 9 forum. It doesn't make for great reading, most will say if you are serious about a cayman track car it really makes more sense in the long run just to pay the extra to buy a gen 2 car.

PR36 said: I am not referring to Porsche dealers, I am referring to Porsche specialist independent workshops, places like nine excellence, parr, hartech, etc. There are many gen 1 owners who 'occasionally' track their cars in totally standard form, but if you are tracking regularly and considering track specific mods like sticky tyres, lowered suspension etc then you have to start to think about engine specific mods, they can suffer oil starvation at high g, also they can blow smoke out the exhaust under high g due to the flimsy stock aos. You can read all about the suitability (or not..) of the gen 1 car for track work and the list of required mods on the planet 9 forum. It doesn't make for great reading, most will say if you are serious about a cayman track car it really makes more sense in the long run just to pay the extra to buy a gen 2 car. I am confused on gen 2? I have seen one for sale on an 09, but seems gen 2 started in 2012? I will research more but what is the main difference gen 1 to gen 2?

987.1 is the gen 1 car from 06-08, the gen 2 car 987.2 starts from 09. The latest model is then called the 981. You have to be careful that many dealers advertise later 987 caymans as an 09 model but 'forget' to mention it is still a gen 1 - the gen 2 car has a totally different dfi engine design.

bcr5784 said: Slightly off beam, personally I would take a lot of convincing about the sense of tracking a car that I owned - unless it really was a track day car and I was doing a lot of days on track. I'm basically the opposite It's a no brainer for me to track each of my cars a few times a year, it eases my frustration of not being able to use them on the road to anywhere near their full potential. They may not be optimised for the track in the way a Caterham is, but they're mine and getting to explore them and learn them is very satisfying.

Mario149 said: I'm basically the opposite It's a no brainer for me to track each of my cars a few times a year, it eases my frustration of not being able to use them on the road to anywhere near their full potential. They may not be optimised for the track in the way a Caterham is, but they're mine and getting to explore them and learn them is very satisfying. Totally agree! A track is the only place you can REALLY push your car, even an older one!

Mario149 said: I'm basically the opposite It's a no brainer for me to track each of my cars a few times a year, it eases my frustration of not being able to use them on the road to anywhere near their full potential. They may not be optimised for the track in the way a Caterham is, but they're mine and getting to explore them and learn them is very satisfying. While you undoubtedly learn things about your car on the track that you are most unlikely to do on the road, having tried a similar car to mine at the PEC (a bit limited I accept), I know I will have more fun in a Caterham or an Elise without the risks to my P&J. I wouldn't push hard enough to risk gravel rash, for instance. But each to his own.

Bit off also, but is a Cayman R rare?

T4NGO said: Bit off also, but is a Cayman R rare? Not on this forum they're not, but our in the real world they're not particularly common, c.230 odd UK cars.

Ah, ok. Was at a stealer yesterday and was trying to tell me a Caymen R was rare. Was a nice one but think I prefer the manual to a PDK. Maybe is rare, but sometimes rare doesn't mean good. Just means never sold many!

T4NGO said: Ah, ok. Was at a stealer yesterday and was trying to tell me a Caymen R was rare. Was a nice one but think I prefer the manual to a PDK. Maybe is rare, but sometimes rare doesn't mean good. Just means never sold many! I never said they weren't good... Depends what you want, Cayman S is a great car, loved mine. The Cayman R is realtively rare, it's also quite unique as a factory produced car, but the R isn't just about rarity value. After owning my Cayman R for 8 months and just having done 2,500 miles through the alps last week, I can safely say that it's an incredible car and eclipses the S as a drivers car, but it doesn't mean the S isn't great. Plenty will argue you can make an R from S, and you can probably get 95% of the way there, but at what cost etc, if you want an R you may as well buy one, or mod an S to your own spec and have an equally good car. There is no right or wrong on that debate. As a daily driver or depending on your driving tendancies, you may not really benefit from the R and an S would be perfectly suited, each to there own. Drive one and decide for yourself what suits you best.

Thanks. OK. PDK. Yes or no? I undertand its a personal choice, but are there any inherent issues with either? Weak spots or is going one way a complete nobrainer as opposed to other? I think I've decided on an R. Only thing I dont really like is the garish sticker down the side they all seem to have ala US muscle car stylee that they all seem to have. Thanks for all the advice everyone and apologies for any dumbass q's

There aren't any reaccuring issues with either manual or PDK transmissions that I'm aware of, so a purely personal choice. You can always remove the decals with a heat gun.

T4NGO said: I think I've decided on an R. Only thing I dont really like is the garish sticker down the side they all seem to have ala US muscle car stylee that they all seem to have. Ii's not about muscle cars, it's about tradition.

loughran said: Ii's not about muscle cars, it's about tradition. True, but not one I like either. One of the things I've always liked about Porsche's is that they are NOT "flash". And then they, to my eyes, spoil their special editions by signwriting the sides. Can't put that many people off though if the second hand prices of 2.7RSs a are anything to go by.

Sorry. Not having a pop at tradition. It's just a 'feature' I'm not happy with and should I get one will remove. As I would have if my tvr had them. Sags don't do subtle, so I'm not worried about that, just never been a fan of stripes. Regarding PDK, does it have to come with the 'chrono' option to release more power or something? Am I reading this info right? Is it pointless to find one without both options?

Bargain track prepped Elise here: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/... Stick some lightweight carpet on the tub and roof and it will be a lot more civilised on the road.

It all depends on what kind of track days you do, the Cayman R would be fine for most people out of the box as a casual track day car, far better in many regards than a Gen1 cayman S would be in terms of 1) reliability and 2) capability. You can always better prepare a car for track though, it just depends how serious you are. My money would be on a cheap 996 Carrera 2 and spend 10k on suspension, wheels, tyres and couple of other bits and it would be a really enjoyable track car. However going back to your original post, the Cayman R is not anywhere near within a £14k budget and I would probably suggest it would bring you closer to your original conundrum of being a bit too valuable to track if this is how you already feel about the Sag. I'm not convinced by the idea of a Chimera as a track car, plenty of other better suited options at that kind of price IMO. Lovely cars though.

Hi, Yeah the more I looked the more I fancied the 'R' but also the more confused I get. Even to the point of sticking to what I know and getting a tamora. As for extending the budget I was goint to use on the road also and the R seemed a good allrounder. Elises are nice, but they just seem underpowered (I'm not the stig so can't make up for my lack of abilities lol) and have never floated my boat. Although that one with the hardtop looks better. Its all so darn confusing.....

Just sold my 2008 MY08 Cayman S. It was tracked heavily for the first two years and driven spiritedly all the time. Apart from usual wear and tear it never missed a beat other than the gear selector cables breaking which is a well known fault.

Well, thanks for all the help and advice. I test drove a few fri-sunday. Listened to what you guys said and the majority seems to believe I can't just get a gen 1 and track it with out mods, I cant be arsed with that. And the failure possibilites also? Seems worse than TVR. I did get a bit carried away and liked the look of the R, but the budget was getting a bit silly... I have to admit even though I like the look of a Caymen and quite wanted one, the drive didn't inspire me. Didn't feel like what I had hoped a Porsche should. To be honest didn't feel much different to the Merc. Which I guess can be a good thing as its a classed as a sports car and rides comfy. So I went and bought a Tamora instead. Kinda sticking with what I know, but easier to work on at home. The more I looked at Caymens, the more un homeworkshop friendly they seemed. This could be wrong, but I know what to do on TVR's. So again, thanks for input and sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. I genuinely was looking at a Caymen, but just didn't have the spark TVR's have, maybe all I drove were bad ones? But 3 I feel are enough to figure out they weren't for me. Alan

T4NGO said: Well, thanks for all the help and advice. I test drove a few fri-sunday. Listened to what you guys said and the majority seems to believe I can't just get a gen 1 and track it with out mods, I cant be arsed with that. And the failure possibilites also? Seems worse than TVR. I did get a bit carried away and liked the look of the R, but the budget was getting a bit silly... I have to admit even though I like the look of a Caymen and quite wanted one, the drive didn't inspire me. Didn't feel like what I had hoped a Porsche should. To be honest didn't feel much different to the Merc. Which I guess can be a good thing as its a classed as a sports car and rides comfy. So I went and bought a Tamora instead. Kinda sticking with what I know, but easier to work on at home. The more I looked at Caymens, the more un homeworkshop friendly they seemed. This could be wrong, but I know what to do on TVR's. So again, thanks for input and sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. I genuinely was looking at a Caymen, but just didn't have the spark TVR's have, maybe all I drove were bad ones? But 3 I feel are enough to figure out they weren't for me. Alan "Didn't feel much different to the Merc [C220]"

Yeah C220 coup, I know. Weird isn't it. I was honestly expecting different and more from them.

T4NGO said: ...... So I went and bought a Tamora instead. Kinda sticking with what I know, but easier to work on at home. The more I looked at Caymens, the more un homeworkshop friendly they seemed. This could be wrong, but I know what to do on TVR's. So again, thanks for input and sorry if anyone feels I wasted their time. I genuinely was looking at a Caymen, but just didn't have the spark TVR's have, maybe all I drove were bad ones?.... I know what you mean. I did all of the maintenance on my TVR Griffith but over my 8+ years of ownership I found that for the majority of journeys my driving enjoyment reduced. Having bought a Gen 2 Cayman 2.9 my driving enjoyment is now high again but having already paid a specialist to have an oil/filter change and new pads/disks I can't see me doing as much maintenance as on the TVR. As you say there are lots of internet scare stories about potential problems with Porsches which make even TVR Speed 6 engine problems seem insignificant.

anonymous said: [redacted] You realise there's an 'Edit' button for when you accidentally wrote a load of bulls t right? I might as well sell the R, keep the 'more involving' 986 as my daily and get a Merc C220 for the fun weekend car then....

anonymous said: [redacted] Haha, I don't really care what you say about my car, I just thought the bulls t was amusing, it's beyond opinion and running into the realms of fantasy fiction, I think you've been on the Mills and Boon lately because it's about as believable.

anonymous said: [redacted] Sorry yes you're right, I actually own the car in question therefore my comments hold far less conviction than yours....what was I thinking.

Try being a Yorkshireman, everything is s t, especially if you own it. You just measure it in degrees of s tness. Occasionally, very occasionally, something might come along that's not s t. But that's very unlikely and it'll almost certainly break at some point anyhow.

Beanoir said: I might as well sell the R, keep the 'more involving' 986 as my daily and get a Merc C220 for the fun weekend car then.... Oh dear. I tried to be careful with wording to not upset the fanboys. Guess I failed lol No one suggests you get a c220 for a 'fun' car, muppet. Life's too short to take things like this so serious. From your messages I think you need a lie down and a beer or 6 to chill out....

anonymous said: [redacted] deluded NO one wants a monoball kitted out race car on the road lol Most people would hate the R ride for a daily. My Dad hates it as an example. Has nothing to DO with cars WE own, we buys the cars which feel nice to drive, it's that simple. To say an R rides like a Merc 220 is just daft ! The reason I keep my R is because it feels tight and has feel, NOT GT3 unusable feel, it has perfect road feel imo, I have not kept a car so long for years. The last Cayman with passive dampers, a real diff and hydraulic steering, it's just a nice thing. I have stated the 981 is now like an Audi, which goes some of the way you talk about, but again a reason I still own my R and not a 981. I hate the "you own it comments" I owned a GT3 and people did not say "you own it" if you say bad things, but people jump on the "you own it" if you say good things ! Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 5th August 10:19

PorscheGT4 said: deluded NO one wants a monoball kitted out race car on the road lol Most people would hate the R ride for a daily. My Dad hates it as an example. Has nothing to DO with cars WE own, we buys the cars which feel nice to drive, it's that simple. To say an R rides like a Merc 220 is just daft ! The reason I keep my R is because it feels tight and has feel, NOT GT3 unusable feel, it has perfect road feel imo, I have not kept a car so long for years. The last Cayman with passive dampers, a real diff and hydraulic steering, it's just a nice thing. I have stated the 981 is now like an Audi, which goes some of the way you talk about, but again a reason I still own my R and not a 981. I hate the "you own it comments" I owned a GT3 and people did not say "you own it" if you say bad things, but people jump on the "you own it" if you say good things ! Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 5th August 10:19 To clarify, I drove older gen 1 caymans, not the newer R.