997 Carrera s - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Morning folks. I'm contemplating possibly purchasing my boyhood dream and just wanted to get some views about whether the driving experience will warrant the outlay in relation to my current motors. I currently drive a new golf r and have a very nice e36 m3 as my toy. The porsche would replace the m3 and be used for weekends and possibly the odd trackday. Will the porsche seem like a significant step up or as it's going to be a toy would I be better off going for a fast lotus , caterham or Tvr . I'm primarily after a focused fast road car that will complement the golf which I'm really impressed with.Will a 911 feel much more special? I'm well aware of the bore scoring, rms ims issues and will have a budget upto about 30k so won't get into a gen 2 car. Your views would be welcome.

You need to drive one. But from your post, it sounds like you want something a little more raw?

Just one man's opinion I went from a 997 c2S (as a daily driver) to a r32 (September) I thought the r32 was faster, more planted in about 80% of situations - the 997 was manual and the golf DSG. I then bought another 997 c2S (for the spring and summer months) only to change to a boxster s (which was faster and more fun in 95% of situations) 997 s are great cars but if you want true driving experience, I suggest you try and rent one for a week, once the whole I'm driving a 911 wears off they aren't that great (for mere driving mortals like me) I now run a rs4 which is great in a million ways, but equally can be a bit dull, occasionally still drawn to dust down my 130k mile mk5 gti and take it out for a quick blast. Saying all that I'd still ove to have a 997 s (man) for weekend duties Edited by Wilmslowboy on Sunday 7th December 10:49

Wilmslowboy said: Just one man's opinion I went from a 997 c2S (as a daily driver) to a r32 (September) I thought the r32 was faster, more planted in about 80% of situations - the 997 was manual and the golf DSG. I then bought another 997 c2S (for the spring and summer months) only to change to a boxster s (which was faster and more fun in 95% of situations) 997 s are great cars but if you want true driving experience, I suggest you try and rent one for a week, once the whole I'm driving a 911 wears off they aren't that great (for mere driving mortals like me) I now run a rs4 which is great in a million ways, but equally can be a bit dull, occasionally still drawn to dust down my 130k mile mk5 gti and take it out for a quick blast. Saying all that I'd still ove to have a 997 s (man) for weekend duties Edited by Wilmslowboy on Sunday 7th December 10:49 Next time you buy a C2S, have a day down at Bruntingthorpe with Don Palmer (http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/index.html) then come back on here and tell us all how fast, how much fun and how planted it isn't! The day will completely change your perceptions. Enjoy.

Ian_UK1 said: Wilmslowboy said: Just one man's opinion I went from a 997 c2S (as a daily driver) to a r32 (September) I thought the r32 was faster, more planted in about 80% of situations - the 997 was manual and the golf DSG. I then bought another 997 c2S (for the spring and summer months) only to change to a boxster s (which was faster and more fun in 95% of situations) 997 s are great cars but if you want true driving experience, I suggest you try and rent one for a week, once the whole I'm driving a 911 wears off they aren't that great (for mere driving mortals like me) I now run a rs4 which is great in a million ways, but equally can be a bit dull, occasionally still drawn to dust down my 130k mile mk5 gti and take it out for a quick blast. Saying all that I'd still ove to have a 997 s (man) for weekend duties Edited by Wilmslowboy on Sunday 7th December 10:49 Next time you buy a C2S, have a day down at Bruntingthorpe with Don Palmer (http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/index.html) then come back on here and tell us all how fast, how much fun and how planted it isn't! The day will completely change your perceptions. Enjoy. Yes they are planted & great fun but from what he seems to be asking is it that much more fun than his current M3 & in that sense I'm not so sure it will be as someone commented earlier it sounds like he wants something a bit more raw than a polished 3.8s, a 997 is great fun but is it the best weekend toy? That all depends on what you're looking for out of your car. Thought about making your M3 Sharper Coilovers new bushes full system etc.

Always makes me laugh when people say a 911 isn't 'fast'. Unless it's a Turbo then no, they aren't massively fast in a straight line but that's not the whole story is it Not sure if it would be a massive step up from the M3, I've had my 996 for 5.5yrs and love it, drove several M3's, E30, E36 and E46 and never gelled with any of them sadly. Try to go on an extended drive and see if you like it, it's a great car and I'm still learning in mine but that's not to say they're for everybody.

Buy something else. You'd get something more suitable for £30k.

Thanks Chaps. I'll get an extended test drive or find somebody off the forum who'll take me out. My m3 is poly bushed and coilovered. Nice but no 911.

As the replacement car will only have limited use on the track and bearing in mind the potential for mind numbing maintenance bills that can come with the 997.1, you could maybe consider an e46 which as a road car is as quick and as much fun with similar power to the C2S. Whilst your e36 is undeniably a great car (appreciating too), the e46 is on another level and it shouldn't cost much to get into a good one. Probably cost you less in depreciation v the 997 too. The other option bearing in mind your max £30k budget is an e90 or 92, the latter saloon in particular offering great value and more involvement than the coupe....both of course being the last of the pre synthetic M3 screamers with great steering.....try bagging a 11 61 for around £30k trade from BCA Nottingham BMW contract and ex management sale.

jbaddeley said: Thanks Chaps. I'll get an extended test drive or find somebody off the forum who'll take me out. My m3 is poly bushed and coilovered. Nice but no 911. Fair point but a 997 is no 964 it's all relative you could get a great E92 M3 for that money but I think you've got your heart set on a 997 so get the best one you can find & enjoy it.

Ian_UK1 said: Next time you buy a C2S, have a day down at Bruntingthorpe with Don Palmer (http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/index.html) then come back on here and tell us all how fast, how much fun and how planted it isn't! The day will completely change your perceptions. Enjoy. I'm not a good enough driver (or have ambition to go any faster on UK roads) to be worthy of this. No doubt a 997s on a open country roads or sweeping dual carriageway is epic,( with a unique level of early corner exit traction) but on a rainy day like today, on tight country roads with potholes, unsighted corners, other drivers etc - I belive I would make as much progress in my rS4. For pure raw out and out fun, for high days at weekends - I found the 911 too accomplished I guess this why they created the GT3 ??

Wilmslowboy said: I'm not a good enough driver (or have ambition to go any faster on UK roads) to be worthy of this. You've no interested in improving your driving technique? Seem like an odd attitude. SS7

I've had an e46, good car but not that much better in my view than the rawer feel of my e36. Certainly no quicker than my golf r which is great in all weather conditions. What I'm after is that really special feel when you take it out for the occasional welsh hoon. Will a 911 live up to expectations? Suppose I'll only find out by trying one.

jbaddeley said: My m3 is poly bushed and coilovered. Nice but no 911. Is yours a coupe or cabrio? I think you'd be disappointed spending £30k expecting a more of a fun car to be honest. The E36 M3 is great fun. The Porsche will feel more refined, more solid and a much better quality interior but by the sounds of things I think you should look for something else.

That's what is at the back of my mind. Might have to explore TVRs and Caterhams. Did the westfield experience many years ago and ran around in a crap fiat uno.

Wilmslowboy said: I'm not a good enough driver (or have ambition to go any faster on UK roads) to be worthy of this. No doubt a 997s on a open country roads or sweeping dual carriageway is epic,( with a unique level of early corner exit traction) but on a rainy day like today, on tight country roads with potholes, unsighted corners, other drivers etc - I belive I would make as much progress in my rS4. For pure raw out and out fun, for high days at weekends - I found the 911 too accomplished I guess this why they created the GT3 ?? Eh? The 911 is too accomplished... but you make better progress in the RS4.... because it's more accomplished?

The problem with asking this type of question is, everyone will reply that their current car/preferred option is best and try and persuade you. Usually a 996 Turbo or 993 Carrera 2 is the best and you will make money and all women will want you :-). Go and try a few. Main dealers are more likely to let you have a proper test drive than a specialist. I can't understand the reply above stating that an R32 and Boxster are quicker in most conditions than a 997 C2S. It's just not true. I've had several M3's including 2 x E36 and 2 x E46. I have a 997 C2S and am coming into my fourth year of ownership. I didn't own 4 x M3's as long combined. At £30k I would look at 996 Turbo, 997 C2S, Cayman S. I don't think you will find the aircooled cars fast enough if you're used to a 3.2 M3.

It's not going to be a lot (or maybe even at all) faster than the latest generation of turbo hot hatches but I am surprised at the comment about it not feeling as fast as the R32 which is 250BHP. But it's tactility to drive will be in a different league and you don't need to be a driving God or drive it at the limit to appreciate the sound, response, feedback. Also in terms of feel good factor, prestige and appearance I wouldn't put it in the same league either Finally, I love the concept of the Golf R but the 4 exhausts to me spoil what it should be - a very fast very discreet hatch. I think they look silly & overkill for a 2.0 4 cylinder.

I'd take you out but i'm in London and can see you are...not. I guess you must be an old CS.net boy going by Yozzasport being mentioned on your profile. I've had a remapped Mk6 Golf R and then bought the 997 C4S and the Golf would murder it in a straight line in day to day situations. The 911 is a whole different driving experience as it is all about the unique layout; you can't lean on the front like a FWD or (i imagine) a quite pointy, track-focused M3. I imagine as a track car it will have more layers to it than the Beemer but of course is not going to be as cheap to run and you'll have to make a few mods. You would have to budget for IMS issues on a 997.1 as well. Basically i wouldn't suggest one as a weekend/trackday car, unless big positives are a)looks, b)status/sense of achievement, c)marque history or, of course, you have tons of money to make it a rather awesome track wh-re.

Interesting question, as I went through the similar path. I know you state that you're only looking at Gen I, but Im sure there wouldn't be too much difference to my observations between the two. My observation of owning a 911 Carrera 2S Gen II Too competent for most roads in the UK Accelerates too quickly to keep your license if you really open it up Not the cheapest way to have fun in a motor car Thirsty on fuel when heavy with the right foot. When you're doing the run to the shops is could be just about any other car Rear seats bordering on useless for anything over 5 foot Had more fun in an MX5 as a daily driver in day to day traffic-lighter less powerful skinnier tyres. Having said that, when you find "THAT DAY", with right width roads, empty, great visibility, or you get out on the track and you get to experience the last 10% of the car, you wouldn't want to be be any other car. The noise, the pedal layout, seating position, all just right for someone my height (5'10") The way it launches out of a corner would outdo most cars with an extra 100-150bhp up to a reasonable speed. The way it turns in when you get the balance over the front wheels, the brakes.....my word. I do enjoy heavy braking and when you throw the anchors out, your head does rock forward from 3 figures. There is also the feelgood factor. When you pass a row of shops and you catch your reflection and its your head looking back. When kids scream at their parents as you drive past yelling "Dad....a Porsche!!!!!" When you're walking back to your car and you see people looking at it as you both approach it and they see its your car, and there is that change of look that goes from "punter" to "nice work fella". Generally having the best car in the car park was also quite a nice feather in the cap. Each point on their own, is meaningless, but when you combine those little things all into one, it provides the basis of man maths to justifying the car you want. Having recently moved to the UK, I couldn't wait to go car shopping. In my case it was easy man maths as they cost half the price of Australia, so when I compare what I could have bought in Aus for the same money, I couldn't hand my money over fast enough. My only concession to you would be, consider the value propositions carefully between Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars, make an educated decision that meets your requirements, and I'm sure you'll have a belter sitting on your driveway shortly. FZP

Thanks chaps. Much to consider. I'll get out in one. Recently did a run with some tVRs and a gen 2 PDk. He reckoned he was using about 8/10 of the porsche performance to stay in touch with the golf round the welsh roads. I did used to be a clio sport member and had a quick cammed yozza prepped clio cup. Lot of fun that car was if not a little too raw for day to day. The looks of the porsche do seriously tempt me and I might regret it if I never try one. The problems with the lotus cars is getting in/and falling out in my garage which is quite narrow. I've driven several but never a really quick one. I've a few more plans for the bmw, ap brakes and diff ratio change but if any headers with a manual are about in the midlands and fancy a run out let me know. Usually do several welsh hoons over the year when the weather picks up.

A 997.1 C2S is a superb car, owned mine 4 years and love it. I also own an E46 M3 running 380BHP, alcons, KW's and stripped to 1300kg at it's only a little quicker than the 911 at the track and not as awarding to drive. In the wet the 911 millers it and is far more accomplished yet fun road car. Get the 911, you won't regret it!

Cheers gibbo. You are quite near in Cheshire. We could meet at cat n fiddle then have a blast over the snake pass. I'll bring the golf unless the roads dry up a bit and I drag the m3 out. Just doing a deal on a diff to rebuild. Should give it a bit more punch with a 364 or 373 in. Where abouts are you?

jbaddeley said: Cheers gibbo. You are quite near in Cheshire. We could meet at cat n fiddle then have a blast over the snake pass. I'll bring the golf unless the roads dry up a bit and I drag the m3 out. Just doing a deal on a diff to rebuild. Should give it a bit more punch with a 364 or 373 in. Where abouts are you? Congleton area, A34 is far better for a blast now, no cameras, would happily take you out in the 911

Cheers for that. Congletons is only a short hop for me. I like the roads around loggerheads, beech, Eccleshall and Swinnerton. I'm in fulford near stone so often pop over that way and towards nantwich when giving the m3 a run. Send me a pm if you off out for a blast. I'd love to tag along. Few pics from last jaunt in the golf with some nice tVRs. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

jbaddeley said: I did used to be a clio sport member and had a quick cammed yozza prepped clio cup. Lot of fun that car was if not a little too raw for day to day. The looks of the porsche do seriously tempt me and I might regret it if I never try one. Usually do several welsh hoons over the year when the weather picks up. I've had my Clio 172 Cup for over 4yrs, run it alongside my 996 C2 manual which I've had for over 5yrs, sounds like you'd love the 911

Re: BMW maintenance costs being less than a 911, these are my experiences: My E46 M3 (2 of them) cost approx £3k per year on servicing and maintenance only. Tyres are similar size and cost Brakes I found more expensive on the M3 Fuel consumption worse on the M3 Insurance more on the M3 Road tax the same Rear springs snapped twice on 1 x M3 in a year Rear wheel arches started rusting on 2002 M3 cabriolet The above is 4 years ago, prior to my 997 C2S

Having the golf as your daily i'd be having go in an evora as well as a 997 for a 30k budget

hondansx said: I'd take you out but i'm in London and can see you are...not. I guess you must be an old CS.net boy going by Yozzasport being mentioned on your profile. I've had a remapped Mk6 Golf R and then bought the 997 C4S and the Golf would murder it in a straight line in day to day situations. Sorry old thread I know but is this really an accurate description of the difference in performance between the two cars. I know you had the 997 after the golf and the golf was chipped but is a 2 litre turbo golf really that much quicker that it would murder the 3.8 997?