Are we on the verge of a big price crash on GT cars? - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars?

Yes

Supply and Demand - the more there are available for sale the lower the selling price will be. Some will be wanting to get out now given increasing costs in most other areas of domestic expenditure and the need to rid themselves of monthly payments on a car that is likely to be an indulgence rather than a necessity; I would suggest most are not an only car and if they are, there are cheaper alternatives.

Every year, every winter, without fail

Yes

But not just winter this year. We have an economic winter combined with an overheated market and a lot of non-performing stock ... and rapidly increased borrowing cost. The market for these cars has just gone into reverse, so where does it hit the wall ... and how hard ?

I read the papers and follow the financial news but despite very gloomy projections ( especially for the UK) I still can’t see that reflected in car prices - at least at the (very) premium end. At this weeks-end RM Auction in Munich top money was being paid and 80% of the lots on offer found new owners. I wouldn’t have thought so. I think the mid-market segment is in for a correction as this is mostly on finance. But top end stuff which is not so much on finance deals is probably still positively influenced by the fact that you can’t get any new ICE powered V8 / V12 any longer or at least the waiting times are up to 2 years on some models.

I think the GT4 has become a victim of it's own success. Ever since GT cars became harder to get than a Steel Rolex Daytona the masses complained that Porsche were only selling to speculators and the true supporters of the Marque were being largely ignored. So Porsche management took this on board and made the 718 GT4 more widely available than any previous GT car to the point where anyone prepared to do a little leg work could likely land a build slot. Even I got offered one when I swapped my Boxster GTS order to a B25 which I politely turned down and I certainly don't think I'm one of my local OPCs best customers. Having said that I'm pretty sure that a few of these were bought by speculators hoping to make a quick buck and know of at least one person who bought one and promptly parked in his garage in the hope that it would increase in value and is now quite disappointed that the opposite has happened. Conversely I know several others that were pleased as punch to be able to get one, are using them as intended and have no intention of selling as things stand. Reducing prices will certainly be good news for those that were unable to buy one new and they will get to enjoy one of the best cars that Porsche has ever produced for a reasonable outlay. Will values decrease further or will they stabilise and over time increase again? Who knows, who cares, just enjoy them while you can

I agree ...

I will be able to buy a 'spare' and tell myself it makes sense.

bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? Long way to go yet. 981 GT4's will be in the £50K's next year and we'll start to see the CR costing more than its big brother.

Maybe ... or maybe not But the CR is still a wonderful car ... (I've kept my 2015 GT4 which has been developed in a way that I could not have considered with the CR ... so I am biased ...)

ChrisW. said: Maybe ... or maybe not But the CR is still a wonderful car ... (I've kept my 2015 GT4 which has been developed in a way that I could not have considered with the CR ... so I am biased ...)

Hardly a blood bath, as yet. If anything, remarkable how prices are holding up. I suppose if you account for inflation, anything in the mid £60ks or below is in the £50ks compared to a few years ago in real terms. We must have at least 15%'s worth of overall inflation in the last two years. But still pretty solid residuals by any san standard. When you think about how ugly it got in the early 90s with orders of magnitude lower supply of this type of car, it's amazing how well prices are holding up, if you ask me.

The key advantage the CR and 981 GT4 have is the number available is finite where as the 718 GT4 could in theory be in production for another 2 years. This combined with the current economic situation will likely put pressure on secondhand prices if new car slots become easier to find. What's interesting is that 4.0 Boxsters appear to be depreciating in line with the 4.0 Caymans even though it seems these are much harder to order new and there are only 20 Spyders for sale on AT versus 90 GT4s at a not too dissimilar starting price (without comparing spec's) so if that continues it would clearly be a wider phenomenon than just GT4s. In my lifetime I've never known a time until recently where a Porsche didn't depreciate as soon as you drove it out of the showroom and if those days are returning then I'm pleased for the genuine enthusiast even though I know its probably going to cost me a few quid more in the future.

I think you throw in winter, plus uncertainty then you'll always have some people desperate to bail out of their cars.....but when the spring returns in 4 months time and we have a bit more stablility in the air then these cars will still be massively attractive to car people like us. Across the price range, what else can you buy that really competes with a GT product?

Yes. May be an almighty mess for OPCs. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch!

julian987R said: Long way to go yet. 981 GT4's will be in the £50K's next year and we'll start to see the CR costing more than its big brother. Personally that would be great news, but you are banging a drum that appears to have no basis in fact

hornbaek said: I read the papers and follow the financial news but despite very gloomy projections ( especially for the UK) I still can’t see that reflected in car prices - at least at the (very) premium end. At this weeks-end RM Auction in Munich top money was being paid and 80% of the lots on offer found new owners. I wouldn’t have thought so. I think the mid-market segment is in for a correction as this is mostly on finance. But top end stuff which is not so much on finance deals is probably still positively influenced by the fact that you can’t get any new ICE powered V8 / V12 any longer or at least the waiting times are up to 2 years on some models. Have a look at 992 GT3 cars advertised. 6 Months ago, the cheapest were £240K. Now they are £200k and they are still not selling. GT3 market is probably more speculator driven than GT4, and those speculators will be keen to get some profit.

Desert Dragon said: Yes. May be an almighty mess for OPCs. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch!

freedman said: julian987R said: Long way to go yet. 981 GT4's will be in the £50K's next year and we'll start to see the CR costing more than its big brother. Personally that would be great news, but you are banging a drum that appears to have no basis in fact R's going for more than GT4s is not going to happen. Just the fantasy of a fanboy. No doubt will buy a GT4 one day and then explain why the R is a complete piece of crap and can never be worth as much as a GT4!

cabbalisticar said: R's going for more than GT4s is not going to happen. Just the fantasy of a fanboy. No doubt will buy a GT4 one day and then explain why the R is a complete piece of crap and can never be worth as much as a GT4! Gonna happen

The R is a great car ... though we may disagree on relative values. Fan boys ? Bring it on. It's the grumpy people that I don't like ...

911hope said: Have a look at 992 GT3 cars advertised. 6 Months ago, the cheapest were £240K. Now they are £200k and they are still not selling. GT3 market is probably more speculator driven than GT4, and those speculators will be keen to get some profit. You cant use 992 prices as a gauge, we always knew they where going to fall even if the market was strong. 992s will come down now naturally as the market went wild for the first batch - now we are seeing more available it will always adjust. As pointed out above i think come spring next year we will see price sure up, might be a dead cat bounce might not be - time will tell i guess. One things for sure these cars still arnt getting any cheaper unless your buying outright with cash.

cabbalisticar said: freedman said: julian987R said: Long way to go yet. 981 GT4's will be in the £50K's next year and we'll start to see the CR costing more than its big brother. Personally that would be great news, but you are banging a drum that appears to have no basis in fact R's going for more than GT4s is not going to happen. Just the fantasy of a fanboy. No doubt will buy a GT4 one day and then explain why the R is a complete piece of crap and can never be worth as much as a GT4! You seem a little on edge. One word of advice, decaf.

I'd have Cayman R in right spec over a GT4 in a heart beat. Mainly road use and the Cayman R is a hidden gem. Super looking Porsche pocket rocket.

I think if any car is safe against any big price crashes is the GT3. Although that is not to say it won’t fall back to list or just below just look at what happened to prices of 996/997 in a normal market. As for the “lesser” Porsche cars imo it will be somewhat different.

I believe GT4 residuals will remain rock solid against the dearer GT cars. Its far more useable and totally different price point so will always be liquid and in demand IMO. The amount of Porsche friends I have who own a GT4 or want them is unbelievable. Many of the other GT cars i.e. 991 GT3, 991 GT3 RS, 991 GT2 RS, and 992 GT3 way over priced if you compare bid to buy spreads I saw a 718 GT4 in Gentian Blue with ceramics, buckets etc at a Porsche meet full works belongs to one of the PCGB officials. I'd put it at top 3 cars at meet for road presence. I also know a few owners of 981 GT4 who can really pedal saying they'll never sell

braddo said: cabbalisticar said: R's going for more than GT4s is not going to happen. Just the fantasy of a fanboy. No doubt will buy a GT4 one day and then explain why the R is a complete piece of crap and can never be worth as much as a GT4! Gonna happen Never going to happen. Only model that would tempt me out of my R is a 930Turbo. I am sure the GT4 is a joy to own, but it’s just not me. The R is the most modern car I have ever owned and to be honest it’s a modern as I’d ever want, perhaps too modern for my liking. I prefer cars where I have to be constantly thinking about taking evasive action, and a flask of tea is the main source of heating. The GT4 would irritate the hell out of me, especially the blank buttons, I just can’t see past that for starters. But! I am sure it’s amazing and would never question anyones desire to own one.

GT4P said: I think if any car is safe against any big price crashes is the GT3. Although that is not to say it won’t fall back to list or just below just look at what happened to prices of 996/997 in a normal market. As for the “lesser” Porsche cars imo it will be somewhat different. GT3s look acutely vulnerable to me. They built zillions of them from 991.1 onwards. Probably easier to find good spec a GT3 than equivalent age Carrera with a good spec and a manual box. If you're using 996/7 as a guide, GT3s of that era built in a very small fraction of the numbers of the 991.1 onwards and in a normal market, they didn't do terribly well. If that's any sort of sign post, it doesn't bode well. Of course, the craziness may continue. it all depends if the market goes truly sour. It might not be that bad, certainly things do look that terrible for now. But if the market in general really does turn, personally can't see how the hugely inflated supply side re GT3s doesn't position them pretty poorly.

julian987R said: bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? Long way to go yet. 981 GT4's will be in the £50K's next year and we'll start to see the CR costing more than its big brother. Not this rubbish again, you won’t as the GT4 is a better can than your namesake. The 911R is quite different again as it had the full rs engine.

GT4P said: I think if any car is safe against any big price crashes is the GT3. Although that is not to say it won’t fall back to list or just below just look at what happened to prices of 996/997 in a normal market. As for the “lesser” Porsche cars imo it will be somewhat different. Only one 991.1 GT3 for sale on opc site £100k for one of these is looking like superb value compared to 991.2 at £45k more and 992 at Twice the price!

Deansfield said: GT4P said: I think if any car is safe against any big price crashes is the GT3. Although that is not to say it won’t fall back to list or just below just look at what happened to prices of 996/997 in a normal market. As for the “lesser” Porsche cars imo it will be somewhat different. Only one 991.1 GT3 for sale on opc site £100k for one of these is looking like superb value compared to 991.2 at £45k more and 992 at Twice the price! Yeah, but they’re coming to the end of their 10 year engine warranty from Porsche. If the engine hasn’t exploded in 10 years I mean, will it? But it would play on the back of my mind. Would I be as comfortable taking it to the red line constantly, hammering it around a track? Probably not. Still great machines to sit in and drive though, very pleasant place to be, still feels quite modern apart from the PCM.

Rojibo said: Yeah, but they’re coming to the end of their 10 year engine warranty from Porsche. If the engine hasn’t exploded in 10 years I mean, will it? But it would play on the back of my mind. Would I be as comfortable taking it to the red line constantly, hammering it around a track? Probably not. The 10 year free engine warranty might be coming to an end, but you can still take out a Porsche extended warranty for less than 1k per year (same price as any other 991) that covers the engine for a good few years more. It's ridiculously good value compared to Ferrari and McLaren warranties, for example. Of course you need to keep the car unmodified and in the Porsche service network, but I'm not worried about blowing up my engine while the Porsche extended warranty is such good value. Not to say 991.1 GT3 values won't take a hammering like any performance car with compromised usability and fairly large build numbers, but I think the engine warranty is something we tend to be much more aware of than even most GT3 buyers outside forums like PH or Rennlist, so not expecting a value cliff-edge in 2024 due to the engine.

I get it, I know that the third iteration of the engine is sound, it has to be. Problem is when your mate has two of them explode on two separate track days it plays on your mind a bit. Anyway, threads not about engine reliability. I guess there may be a bit of a blip at the 15 year mark when you can’t get an OPC warranty anymore but if it’s still fine then… how bad can it be? The thing about these cars, at fair value ie around list, what actually comes close? I think the reason residuals have always been so strong is that they’ve been so competitively priced to begin with.

My tuppence worth for what it's worth. Price fluctuations are cyclic on an annual basis. Sports cars, or perceived sports cars, are more desirable during the warmer, brighter summer months and less desirable during the wet colder months. Thrown into the mix is the basic supply and demand of components for new cars. It's basically a first-world problem and beyond the control of us mere mortals.

Good grief - there are already a few threads going where the same thing is being discussed, Do we really need another?

Deansfield said: GT4P said: I think if any car is safe against any big price crashes is the GT3. Although that is not to say it won’t fall back to list or just below just look at what happened to prices of 996/997 in a normal market. As for the “lesser” Porsche cars imo it will be somewhat different. Only one 991.1 GT3 for sale on opc site £100k for one of these is looking like superb value compared to 991.2 at £45k more and 992 at Twice the price! OPCs don't really want to touch the 991.1 due to the putty engine. Personally I don't think that car at nearly ten years old is good value at £100k considering the engine troubles, some of these cars are on their 4th engine. Just my opinion, there will be loads of people who disagree. It makes a £130k 991.2 seem good value.

Yep, it's happening and to the 992 GT3 too. So far I managed to negate a far amount off a 1000 mile car with fantastic spec. Ultimately I decided against it due to the very high cost of borrowing, I had a really large deposit too. I think this will be the main reason all cars are going to fall in price next year...

bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? I always tend to look at the bigger picture with these type of things. While 90 newer GT4 sounds like a lot of cars for sale, if this is observed against the UK population it maybe gives a different perspective. At 67M people it means there are 1.3 GT4s for sale per 1M people. Hardly sounds like a massive number in that context - to me anyway! As many have said, Seasonal factors at play as much as anything here, I’d be very surprised if things don’t pick up by end March as spring and new track season etc approaches.

finmac said: I always tend to look at the bigger picture with these type of things. While 90 newer GT4 sounds like a lot of cars for sale, if this is observed against the UK population it maybe gives a different perspective. At 67M people it means there are 1.3 GT4s for sale per 1M people. Hardly sounds like a massive number in that context - to me anyway! As many have said, Seasonal factors at play as much as anything here, I’d be very surprised if things don’t pick up by end March as spring and new track season etc approaches. Need to consider it against the number of GT4s in the UK. If that is a large proportion, then it is significant.

I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.* Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times. A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching. Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much. Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09

911hope said: Need to consider it against the number of GT4s in the UK. If that is a large proportion, then it is significant. 498 according to how many left....so that'd be 18%

Murph7355 said: 911hope said: Need to consider it against the number of GT4s in the UK. If that is a large proportion, then it is significant. 498 according to how many left....so that'd be 18% 498 ! May want to check again

718 gt4 currently stands at 874 Uk cars plus whatever else has landed since the sites been updated. Apparently it runs 3 months behind.

findtomdotcom said: Yep, it's happening and to the 992 GT3 too. So far I managed to negate a far amount off a 1000 mile car with fantastic spec. Ultimately I decided against it due to the very high cost of borrowing, I had a really large deposit too. I think this will be the main reason all cars are going to fall in price next year... Interesting, another person openly saying they are not progressing with a porsche porsche due cost of borrow and fear of values dropping. A work colleague did the same thing this week with a new car order he’s had a deposit down since last year and this chap is a proper car but and porsche fan. The farther inlaw has also just sold his Macan T this week as he can see prices falling and it’s a second car he doesn’t really need at the moment.

Seems that this discussion and the GT3 Prices going up discussions are going in the same direction. In summary: would seem that prices / overs are going down due to increasingly expensive finance and people's ability to pay via finance / cash. Plus Porsche building more GT cars than ever. As in other sectors of the market, those who're very leveraged are really feeling it vs those who're cash buyers and long term enthusiasts. So - if you want a GT3 to actually drive this may be a good time to buy, or if you want to risk it wait for 12 months until winter next year you may or may not get a better deal. Otherwise if you're an owner then keep your car and enjoy it or sell now / wait until Spring if you really have to unload it.

Yes they are cars , meant to lose money and be driven , this is not breakthrough news . Done over 20 k miles in my .2 3RS , the joy is what it is all about .

Indeed. I'm not planning on selling it any time so resale is irrelevant to me and I'm hoping the drop in prices will make my 718 GT4 easier to insure on both road and track. I have a right nightmare getting cover, so bring it on.

Nice looking white 992 GT3 (21 plate, 3k miles) only got bid to £181,500 tonight on Collecting cars so was unsold. Even at £187,500 including CC fee it would be the cheapest for sale by a good chunk. Not the time of year to put your car in to an auction though, surely?!

bencollins4 said: Nice looking white 992 GT3 (21 plate, 3k miles) only got bid to £181,500 tonight on Collecting cars so was unsold. Even at £187,500 including CC fee it would be the cheapest for sale by a good chunk. Not the time of year to put your car in to an auction though, surely?! Not the right time of the World Cup fixtures to put your car in to an auction that ends during a big game. Any other night it would have sold.

julian987R said: Not the right time of the World Cup fixtures to put your car in to an auction that ends during a big game. Any other night it would have sold. No it wouldn't. The market speaks volumes. Impossible to relist that car now as a 'story car'....deal will have been done behind scenes probably.

LucasA said: I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.* Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times. A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching. Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much. Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09 Despite demand falling by some degree I would not be too worried about 911 sales as they are increasingly less relevant and people will always want to have a last of line ICE sports car. As a manufacturer or dealer I would be more worried about shifting mainstream but special ICE cars such as the Type R as Kia, Tesla etc BEVs are making them look slow and then the battery SUVs which are meant to replace medium/top end family cars. The price premium being asked by Audi, Merc, Volvo etc might be justified by input costs but it is not justified by buyers’ ability to fund. It’s going to be a fun few years and, frankly, it is about time automotive margins reversed. The Porsche IPO might be a visionary thing but with the amount of Macans sold on PCP I’m not sure. Edited by EC2 on Monday 5th December 13:58

EC2 said: Despite demand falling by some degree I would not be too worried about 911 sales as they are increasingly less relevant and people will always want to have a last of line ICE sports car. As a manufacturer or dealer I would be more worried about shifting mainstream but special ICE cars such as the Type R as Kia, Tesla etc BEVs are making them look slow and then the battery SUVs which are meant to replace medium/top end family cars. The price premium being asked by Audi, Merc, Volvo etc might be justified by input costs but it is not justified by buyers’ ability to fund. It’s going to be a fun few years and, frankly, it is about time automotive margins reversed. The Porsche IPO might be a visionary thing but with the amount of Macans sold on PCP I’m not sure. Edited by EC2 on Monday 5th December 13:58 We definitely have an interesting few years ahead of us. Lets put it this way, if you'd asked people in 2019 to predict the future of car prices they'd all have been wrong. Yes, a major event happened during that time but that's actually what normally happens when people make predictions they think are dead certainties. They generally get it wrong...

LucasA said: I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.* Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times. A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching. Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much. Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09 I love the way you said looks great value against the Civic.

GT4RS said: Interesting, another person openly saying they are not progressing with a porsche porsche due cost of borrow and fear of values dropping. A work colleague did the same thing this week with a new car order he’s had a deposit down since last year and this chap is a proper car but and porsche fan. The farther inlaw has also just sold his Macan T this week as he can see prices falling and it’s a second car he doesn’t really need at the moment. Yeah ive done that too with my Macan gts on order, ok it third quarter of 2023 , but had a few signs that i could be affected over the next couple of years so decided to hold fire .

Andyoz said: We definitely have an interesting few years ahead of us. Lets put it this way, if you'd asked people in 2019 to predict the future of car prices they'd all have been wrong. Yes, a major event happened during that time but that's actually what normally happens when people make predictions they think are dead certainties. They generally get it wrong... This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets. This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc . The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle.

And the government have no bullets left in the gun to help . It was all spent on Covid .

tedblog said: This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets. This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc . The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle. Yes, I know. That's my point. I called this over a year ago... I still don't think some here realise what this abrupt end to the post 2008 credit cycle can do to asset values. Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 6th December 14:11

Andyoz said: tedblog said: This is very different, covid made people very cash rich , not be able to spend on anything and mostly being paid full salary when not going to work left them.with huge amounts of spare cash in their pockets. This is money being taken out , interest rates , energy etc etc . The biggest fear is interest rates, whilst people ask for bigger pay rises , inflation rises , then interest rates rise to stabalise it , its a horrible viscous circle. Yes, I know. That's my point. I called this over a year ago... I still don't think some here realise what this abrupt end to the post 2008 credit cycle can do to asset values. Edited by Andyoz on Tuesday 6th December 14:11 It's called denial, and that's not the big river in Egypt

The best trade offer I got in 2019 when I sold my 981 GT4 was 63k. High spec Clubsport, PCCB etc. 3 closest OPC wouldn't even give a trade bid. The same car now/previous 18 months would be 10-15k more. Prices just need to realign to pre covid.

993rsr said: It's called denial, and that's not the big river in Egypt The thing is, everyone's looking for immediate evidence of price collapses. It is already softening but these things don't just fall off a cliff. It takes a while for the changes to the cost of credit to flow thru.

tedblog said: LucasA said: I was surprised at the price of the new Civic Type R that was revealed today - 48 grand *edited, sorry 47 grand, 50+ with options.* Surely if this is the new normal for a hot hatch, a GT4 at 80/90k looks relatively good value, even in harder times. A 992 GT3 at 200k considering how good they are and what they rival also doesn't seem like a stupid buy. I'd rather have one over a similar age Lambo Huracan or Ferrari F8. They are also cheaper to run which may appeal in times of penny pinching. Overall the market may correct, but Porsche GT in particular more than other things, not so much. Edited by LucasA on Wednesday 30th November 17:09 I love the way you said looks great value against the Civic. That just shows how crazy the price is!

Far fewer hot hatches will be sold compared to years gone by. It’s a segment that seems to have disappeared in favour of these sophisticated, but expensive offerings.

Grantstown said: Far fewer hot hatches will be sold compared to years gone by. It’s a segment that seems to have disappeared in favour of these sophisticated, but expensive offerings. Yes, I don't consider them hot hatches anymore. They were cars purely aimed at the cheap PCP 'monthly' brigade...were....

Andyoz said: Yes, I know. That's my point. I called this over a year ago... I still don't think some here realise what this abrupt end to the post 2008 credit cycle can do to asset values. To be fair though, quite a few, including on here have also been predicting the end of the GT/collector car market literally for years since 2015. Finally being right now doesn't mean they 'called it right long ago'....

Too new and too many of them. They’re bound to come down first (out of the GT stuff). Older stuff will be affected too but will go down later/less and not as far.

Curv3hunter said: The best trade offer I got in 2019 when I sold my 981 GT4 was 63k. High spec Clubsport, PCCB etc. 3 closest OPC wouldn't even give a trade bid. The same car now/previous 18 months would be 10-15k more. Prices just need to realign to pre covid. There is surely no chance of getting a trade bid at £73-£78k, when there are cars being retailed at under £70k

freedman said: There is surely no chance of getting a trade bid at £73-£78k, when there are cars being retailed at under £70k No chance. Try it, punch the details into WBAC to get an idea. The market has already started to soften. I for one welcome the end to this crazy period.

bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? Here’s a couple of interesting questions. Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market and are comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market, comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% and happy to have a guarantee future value set far lower than they ever expected? My guess is there’s plenty of dreamers and window shoppers, but there are very few serious/ genuine buyers. Supply increases, people see the price of what they thought was a safe place to leave their money become risky and more come to the market. The ones who are sensible and need to sell will pitch there car slightly lower than others, the ones who don’t are rolling the dice…..

Andyoz said: The thing is, everyone's looking for immediate evidence of price collapses. It is already softening but these things don't just fall off a cliff. It takes a while for the changes to the cost of credit to flow thru. Looking for evidence?? Its there for everyone to see. They fell off the cliff a while back......now are well on the way down!!

GT4RS said: bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? Here’s a couple of interesting questions. Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market and are comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market, comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% and happy to have a guarantee future value set far lower than they ever expected? My guess is there’s plenty of dreamers and window shoppers, but there are very few serious/ genuine buyers. Supply increases, people see the price of what they thought was a safe place to leave their money become risky and more come to the market. The ones who are sensible and need to sell will pitch there car slightly lower than others, the ones who don’t are rolling the dice….. This applies only to driver / purchasers .... but a lot of the cars advertised are with dealers who themselves are seeing many of the same reasons not to hold stock. Hence the argument applies also to them ... that the best value cars will sell and the others will be a roll of the die. What happens when dealers NEED cash flow ?

ChrisW. said: This applies only to driver / purchasers .... but a lot of the cars advertised are with dealers who themselves are seeing many of the same reasons not to hold stock. Hence the argument applies also to them ... that the best value cars will sell and the others will be a roll of the die. What happens when dealers NEED cash flow ? This happened to a friend in 2008. He was substantially under water on almost all good stock. Took a bath and lost a huge amount of money.

rkwm1 said: Looking for evidence?? Its there for everyone to see. They fell off the cliff a while back......now are well on the way down!! Yes, I definitely saw some decent price chops around Truss budget and now it's a steady decline...There's now 5 x 992 GT3's at sub £200k on OPC site. 991.2 GT3 prices getting the chop too as the price compression happens (as predicted). Sure they are 'overs' but the thing is that's evaporating fast and it's a feedback loop. Lads will just sit on their hands until next year unless they really need one and no one really needs a Porsche.

freedman said: Curv3hunter said: The best trade offer I got in 2019 when I sold my 981 GT4 was 63k. High spec Clubsport, PCCB etc. 3 closest OPC wouldn't even give a trade bid. The same car now/previous 18 months would be 10-15k more. Prices just need to realign to pre covid. There is surely no chance of getting a trade bid at £73-£78k, when there are cars being retailed at under £70k You wouldnt now but 6-12 months ago it was possible.

ChrisW. said: GT4RS said: bus_ter said: Window shopping on Autotrader (as you do) and noticed there are now 90 718 GT4's and 30 981 GT4's for Sale. Prices down to the £60K's That's quite a remarkable change from just 6 months ago. Is the current financial climate about to crash the price of GT cars? Here’s a couple of interesting questions. Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market? Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market and are comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% Or Is there 120 genuine buyers currently in the Uk seriously looking to buy a used gt4 at an inflated price over or just under list, in a falling market, comfortable borrowing at a high interest rate between 11 and 14% and happy to have a guarantee future value set far lower than they ever expected? My guess is there’s plenty of dreamers and window shoppers, but there are very few serious/ genuine buyers. Supply increases, people see the price of what they thought was a safe place to leave their money become risky and more come to the market. The ones who are sensible and need to sell will pitch there car slightly lower than others, the ones who don’t are rolling the dice….. This applies only to driver / purchasers .... but a lot of the cars advertised are with dealers who themselves are seeing many of the same reasons not to hold stock. Hence the argument applies also to them ... that the best value cars will sell and the others will be a roll of the die. What happens when dealers NEED cash flow ? Very good point, I would imagine many of the GT cars we see for sale in independents are SOR, but yes some will have stock on stocking loans which wouldn’t be good for them. From my understanding many porsche centres are now unwilling to buy gt cars or 992 turbo s cars unless they are well below market prices as there far to many for sale and not enough buyers. As someone else mentioned many who don’t need to buy now and don’t fancy loosing their shirt will sit and wait. What’s surprising is Ashgood have a 991.2 gt3 for 127k and it hasn’t sold yet. This car is a good 10k cheaper than others! What hope do the £145k 991.2 gt3 cars have !

I am also hearing that the OPC's are starting to see a lot of order cancellations ... in the short term this reduces waiting times and releases a few fixed build cars for potential customers who could not place orders, so more reason to phone around if anybody is looking for a car ? But beyond a certain point, I wonder what the outcome of this may be ?

ChrisW. said: I am also hearing that the OPC's are starting to see a lot of order cancellations ... in the short term this reduces waiting times and releases a few fixed build cars for potential customers who could not place orders, so more reason to phone around if anybody is looking for a car ? But beyond a certain point, I wonder what the outcome of this may be ? Yes, people here on PH have stated they have cancelled orders and I personally know people that have cancelled orders. Suddenly, their current car looks just fine in the face of PCP monthly that would increase by up to 50%... The supply/demand shocks that were predicted at the start of Covid have years to play out yet. One things for sure, manufacturers need to keep pumping out cars so they won't let up and they don't give a fook what it does to used prices. Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 7th December 15:12