C4S / TuscanS / M3 - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Well the tvr will cost the same in the end. Add in tvr's service costs, repair work, hire cars, petrol and general hassles to round things off nicely. The M3 is a fine car, although a touch common and a little 'coffee bean shaker' in image. Save some weight and cash and go for the all time classic and legendary 911 carrera 2.

P.S Then ditch all the other cars while your at it.

You know what Mark, although I'm partial to le pork, I think in your case, since you already have a sort of semi-practical mega ground coverer in the Scoob, I tend to think the C4S would give you a bit of overkill in that department. The Tuscan is simply an event, which nobody can really deny; even out trumping a Diablo, as EVO mag suggested. Your Lotus could be looked at as the track day/ultimate B-road special for motorsport type thrills but the Tuscan will get you up on a Sunday morning like little else. Even if it is just to lick. Ooh, yum. I think a new GT3 might be a different box of strawberries, however and they're not 'that' much more! (He says!) What a lovely quandry, btw.

Pff, whatever I get won't match the Exige for fun. I know that much. I also know that the 911 won't carry as much as the Scoob, and I also know I'd rather do short shopping trips and long term parking in the Smart... I also know that after my wife saw the wide-bodied C4S parked next to a normal Carrera that it's the C4S or not a 911 at all....

Why have the Tuscan? You have the raw thrills and the exploding car already in the Exige. It's a choice between BMW and Pork IMHO. BMW has poorer steering and is less polished overall (as I understand never having driven either) but both will hold their value. And, why keep the Scooby? Unless it has a towbar and you use it to retrieve the Exige when it's popped its clogs on track Suggestion: sell the Scooby and the Exige and buy a new GT3.

C4S. Next question.

ah, BT52 - Chrstine's other half - I'll tell the BBS boys that you plan to dump the Exige ;-)

Tuscan will give you wind in the hair motoring (something your existing fleet doesn't do): none of the others will. Tuscan will get you noticed: drop dead gorgeous looks, fantasic noise - the others are somewhat anonymous. Tuscan is also probably the greatest risk in terms of maintenance costs, reliability and depreciation. As has been said many times: depends what floats your boat - they are actually all very different cars.

Oh and I meant to say - sell the Scooby if it somehow allows you to justify buying the 996 - which looks awesome but dynamically isn't up there with the standard 996 really. In your position I'd buy a Ferrari 355 no contest (ducks head below parapet)

Exploding Exige? Pah, only problem it has given me is when the pads I fitted got too hot for the disks. My fault. If it wasn't for that I'm sure it would have been faster than that pesky yellow thing at Donington The Tuscan I have been in was way more refined than the Exige. Quite soft really. Need the Scoob for carrying stuff around. GT3? Nope, they're all yellow aren't they? And it treads on the Exige's toes too much. We're after a cross-Europe tourer type thing really. Thing is would I be taking a massive depreciation hit if I got a new C4S? Ruby, we wouldn't need to sell the Scoob. And NO we are NOT selling the Exige whatever happens >> Edited by BT52 on Tuesday 1st April 16:41

Sounds like you have already answered your own questions with respect to the C4S....a done deal. I like your analogy of parking next to a regulat 996 in the C4S. when I park next to a C4S I think what a bloater,big body inert 4wd heavy steering feel and why didn't the owner spend a few more quid in a turbo ? Horses for courses. I think you will have much more fun with a C2 in a light weight spec,as the rest of your collection indicate you have good experience of rear wheel drive cars.You always have the Scooby for snow,towing or ram-raids.

Clubsport

If I was buying a 996 I would be considering the Turbo first, then the C4S. Given my budgetary constraints the C4S would be a very strong contender. I think you've already made a wise choice.....

I've got a thing against turbos. Largely thanks to the Scoob and the smart. They're a fine way to get decent power on a sub £20k car, but to spend over 30k I'd insist on it being normally aspirated. Dislike lag of any descrption. Instant throttle response is my thing. C4S has had such good reviews compared to the current (new-lights) Carrera, that's mainly why I focused on it. Don't really want 4WD particularly.

So, Tuscan S it is. NEXT!

I'm sure most people that buy a C4S arn't bothered about 4x4 either. I'm sure it's just popular as it's one model up from the 'basic' 911 c2. Jessies fashion tips; "This season I'll mostly be driving a C4S".

If you are not aching to buy one of these cars on your list ...then go drive them....it's a waste of time giving it the big I don't know,but the reviews are good. If you are looking at reviews then forget these, get a new Mini Cooper S....it would appear to be the best car in the world ever,,,apparently.

Oh, we'll drive them all right! I just wondered if people had any more long term comparisons that I won't notice on a test drive. If I just went by reviews we would have an Elise 190 rather than an Exige, an EvoVI rather than a bugeye Scoob and a Mini instead of a Smart... So do people think the C4S's alledged superiority is less than justified?

Instant throttle response and a reticence for pricey turbo cars? Forgive me but you can't compare the aeons it takes for a typical Japanese turbo car (Scoob/EVO) to spool and shoot with a latter day Porker T & The MGs. Frankly, it's instantino slingshotitus. Not to mention green onions. Ho-ho.

It's not just the lag, it's the non-linear response and I just can't believe there is *no* hesitation at all. I'm unreasonably biased against turbos I'll admit. Mind you, I would have said the same same about having the engine behind the rear axle until I had a ride in an afformentioned yellow machine...

Mmmm...there are flat spots in the delivery with most cars, or you can fluff a change say, even with normal breathers but at the end of the day, even if there is a technical gap before blowers are fully girdled, off-boast urgency would still mean reasonable wallop. In practice, I tend to find the revs constantly high enough so that you're always heading for a badger or three from the off. Still doesn't stop the Tuscan being one helluva rush, though!

Mark, I think I would go for a GT3...You would have to drive one though to see if its was refined enough Steve

Ditch the scooby and get a 996 turbo. Any PHers who've been in my turbo may care to mention this beast doesn't no the meaning of turbo lag. One PHer, who until recently ran both 360 and 456 Ferraris commented that the turbo for him redefined the meaning of "Fcuk me thats quick". DAZ Edited to say, don't do anything until you've driven a turbo. The OPC network seems to have a lot of good low mileage stock so you should be able to hammer down a decent deal. >> Edited by dazren (moderator) on Tuesday 1st April 18:48

Whaaaaaaaaaat. That is the POINT of a C4S or Turbo. [high horse] Lets face it. 911s all have the engine in the wrong place. That isn't necessarily a bad thing - as it gives the cars their incredible character. But its hardly the easiest of all places to put an engine and still achieve balanced handling. Amazingly Porsche have made it work. Astonishing. Part of how they've done it is with 4WD and some amazing electronic trickery. To my mind this is what the 996 "supercars" are all about.... If you want the character thing get a C2 with RWD. [/high horse] Me I'd have a C4 anyday. Going RWD I'll stick withe the Boxster S. But all of that ranting aside...Whichever one you choose you'll be getting a great car. Enjoy!

LOL! Daz.

Strikes me 4wd = turbo=competence 2wd = c2,GT3,GT2=fun(fear!) I have a couple of friends who use C4 (normally aspirated)for business,they would both go 2wd if they did less miles as they are more fun and keep your more involved. tuscan S seems the best choice to compliment the existing steeds in the scuderia.

The alternative is the C2S of course - anyone know whether Porsche have released a 996 C2S? That'd be a good option for BT52 and his unreasonable bias against turboed cars...BTW isn't the Smart turboed too?..I know the Exige isn't as I creamed some on a recent track day

have you considered a 355 spider or gts. they are amazing driving machines with a lot of style and can be had for less then a new c4s and lets face it, there is always a special air about a ferrari which the porsche just doesn't have. and by the sounds of it this is a car which is there to put a smile on you face.

How about a late manual 928GTS? Sounds like the sort of car you'd be looking for and at half the price

The 928 GTS is a truly awesome car - to date the fastest auto car I've ever driven (no one'll let me near an SL55 AMG)...good alternative if one can be found at the right money with the right history and mileage. But does BT52 really need a practical car - he doesn't have any kids, has a noisy 2 seater alredy (Exige) and a small 2 seater runabout (Smart) so if he's replacing the Scooby he may need 4 practical seats...in which case how about....an M3 GT......seems to be a number around now and just a bit different from your run of the mill E36 M3....

I really don't understand all these bolt on body kits and excess weight. It's all a bit gemballa really isn't it.

You have'nt driven a Turbo then (whether a 993 or 996). PLEASE go and try one - you may be supprised you like it *alot*. For me you dcision is really: Do I want open top weekend blasts with loads and loads of character, and manic acceleration? or Do I want very capabale and just as fast machine that I can use for everything but not quite so much character with a tin top? (personally I get a turbo without any hestitation even though I think the Tuscan is fantasic, and I chop the Exige for a Elise R ....! - mmmm dream on..)

Noticed you haven't got wind in your hair with your collection. what about a C2 Cab. or BoxterS, would slot in nicely with the "fleet". Alternatively ditch the lot & get the TURBO ....IT IS THE DADDY, there is no looking back !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't know why, but my old username was suddenly unable to post anything.... Anyway, thanks for the replies. Really really dislike open top cars. The roof hardly ever came off our Elise and if we get a Tuscan it will be in SPITE of it having a removable roof and the roof would stay on almost permanently. I wish they did a fixed roof Tuscan in fact. I'm still not convinced by the idea of turbos, but it might be worth a try. Pretty sure I'd rather have a slower N/A car though. Thinking sensibly, choosing anything other than the M3 would probably be a bit daft. £40k - say, 15k for the Impreza = £25k... as opposed to £50k for a TuscanS or £65k for the C4S and probably needing to keep the Impreza. Didn't mention that we have a 1966 MGB-GT as well did I... Would love to sell it, but no-one seems interested. 4 cars is pretty daft, I'm beginning to think 5 is getting a bit too silly. >> Edited by Mark_BT52 on Wednesday 2nd April 16:55

Err they pretty much do: the T350C. In fact, I'm sure they would build you a 400bhp version if you asked nicely - I know a couple of PHers have them on the way. So, a non-turbo, non-open top, non-4WD T400C it is. >> Edited by jeremyc on Wednesday 2nd April 17:02

I will look into why you couldn't post as BT52. Hope someone hasn't inadvertantly banned you - were you misbehaving on the Tuscan forum? They do a fixed head Tuscan, I believe - the Tuscan R or something. Big metallic maroon thing in Evo a few months back.

TuscanR! Now you're talking. Um, except it isn't really ready yet is it. They have sold at least all of this year's cars already and the car hasn't even been developed for the road yet, they're still working on the track set-up! Going for a TVR is a big enough risk as it is without going for one which is still in delevopment... The T350 just doesn't grab me. Reminds me of the MGB-GT bizarrely with the profile and upright screen. And one thing I like about the Tuscan is the enormous boot. (PS Don't think I managed to offend anyone yet. Except for maybe those with yellow cars..)

Grrrr....

Mark BT52 - if your MGB's a nice one I have a friend in Newgate Steet Village (not a million miles from you) who may be interested in buying it or at least SORing it for you...post here if you're interested and I'll mail you. I'd stick with the Porsches if I were you - one unreliable car is enough isn't it

It's in the Pistonheads cars for sale section. 2 pics and details there. Cheers Mark

One option could be sell the Exige and the Scooby. Get a Nobel (there are those lovely open topped ones as well now) and an M3 (and of course these also can come topless). M3s are great, but I agree with what others have said about the steering, chassis etc of the Porsches is true, although the actual finish of my M3 is better on the interior than the boxster S we have and better than the 996s I have driven, its paint however is poor by comparison. Given the nice cars you already have, I would be tempted to get an open car, 996 Cab, M3 Cab or the Tuscan's got that roof panel and if you got rid of the exige there's the Nobel GTC. The 996 and the M3 lose out a bit to their hard top brethren in outright dynamics and the M3 has got a bit of flex over the worst roads (so does the 996 but not as much), but you get access to a whole host of other sensations, wind in the hair, sound of those engines, better view of the scenery etc.

Not selling the Exige full stop. Noble is no faster round a track, less fun, it's a turbo again and is utterly impractical as it has even less luggage space than the Exige. The trackspec one might be quicker, but then if I'm paying 60k for a track toy which is utterly useless on the road (no luggage) there are far better options, such as an Ultima or a Radical. Really don't want an open top car. That's one thing that puts me off the Tuscan. My preference at the moment is M3 to replace the Scoob, or C4S. I suspect the GT3 would be too noisy to play the GT role.

sold my m3 last week. fabulous car in every respect, but strangely i dont miss it one little bit, wheras when i still badly miss my cerbera despite it costing a fortune to run, and whilst not being unreliable, was often 'trying'. unless you actively need a 4/5 seater i wouldnt bother with an m3, it just dosen't feel 'special'. i'm probably going to get an LHD gt3, as i suspect that if i buy a lesser 911, i'll want to upgrade. a t350 might be another option.

996 TURBO TURBO TURBO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw that Joe Macari has a 996 Turbo in LHD with 19k miles for £59,000. Now that is a bargain, is it not? If not for Mark (bit more than budget?) then for someone else who fancies Dazdom (remember Dazdom means beating Cerbys at Bruntingthorpe at 170+mph and being the toast of Leicestershire )

The budget isn't really important. But for turbo money I'd much rather go for the GT3. If we had no Exige then I'd be getting a GT3 definitely, but since the role we're looking for is for a GT car then C4S looks like the best option of 911.

Cerbera 4.5???

Certainly planning to give it a go. Strangely, the TVR dealers seem very unenthusiastic about it, almost trying to put me off!

LOL, maybe they know something you don't Reminds me of when I went to a TVR dealer to see a Tuscan just after launch. I was cooing over the look of the thing (tyrekicking only you understand) and they advised me to wait a year if I wanted one, so that any teething probs could be addressed. Thought they'd have the cerb 4.5 sorted by now, tho'///

CHeck the latest Evo .. Though the M3 is quick, the Cayenne Turbo was exactly as quick round Bedford Autodrome !!!! A standard 911 was 3 seconds quicker.. A c4s I reckon would cut another second off. though I love it dearly the Tuscan would probably breakdown.

If you go for a Cerbera 4.5, do the right thing and get a Red Rose!!!

Get a Cayenne. In yellow.

Yellow Cayenne ...I still think the VW Twiglet looks "prettier"

Well, there's always the Vel Satis if you want beating with an ugly stick. But, even if yellow isn't the done colour for a Cayenne (bright colours such as pink or mint are great on an RS but less good on humbler vehicles) then it's a real Q-car to own and drive, particularly if Matt is unconcerned about the cost. It handles well, it's just as quick as an M3 around the track (still reeling at that one), it's rare, it stands out. Or, get the VW Touareg with a V10 diesel and 500+ lbft torque. Gosh! There's something about the big 4x4 monsters that's strangely appealing. If you've got a sports car or three already, why not? >> Edited by peter_964rs on Thursday 10th April 09:23

But that was the point of the Cayenne article in Evo. They basically said 'yeah, it does amazing things - but it doesn't make you fall in love with it.' School swot syndrome if you ask me. David Copperfield does amazing things but I wouldn't want to have a beer with him. If I had an unlimited budget for a second car I could 'almost' see myself in the Cayenne. But then when you see it against other cars, you realise it is abso-f**king-lutely ugly and just a 2.4 ton triumph of engineering over physics. A party trick on four wheels. I would probably go out and buy the Audi RS4 they were testing it against instead, or an X5 if I had to do a school run and frighten smaller machinery >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Thursday 10th April 09:44

Nonononono you want a Drew Bowler Land Rover - the best kept secret until bloody Evo Mag outed it...best news is you can find older ones for £6k...or you could before all the Evo readers started looking for one....I had a V8 Lightweight for the station run - used to burn anything of the line up to 30 mph - shame the brakes were so rubbish

Okay people. Convince me that the 996 C4S is what I want over a) a new Tuscan S at some £15-20k less, and b) an M3 at more than 20k less. If it's the 911 or Tuscan then it will sit alongside an Exige, an Impreza WRX '01 and a Smart. If it's the M3 then I guess the Scoob could go. So far I haven't seen any 2nd hand C4S for less than list price, so I'm guessing it would have to be new (must be black with Boxster red interior). Refinement is an issue, if I want raw thrills I'd take the Exige. I'm guessing some people here have experience of all 3 and I'm wondering how they compared. Cheers Mark