Is this what the slippery slope looks like?

We've all often warned read the warning from others about the 'slippery slope' with regards starting to mod oncars. Pretty sure I just went head first down the slope! Got a deal on the coilovers two years ago and only now getting the full suspension package gather and ready for install this week! I vacillated for too long trying to decide just do the coilover + swaybars or go all in with the full monoball/spherical ended components. Install + corner weight/balance this week, next track event is June 16/17. JRZ RS Pro + Swift springs Everything else you see there is Tarett.

Yes indeed, you are sliding down hill FAST!!! Enjoy! You only go around once in this life.

How much did you pay for the parts?

That is my thinking as well. I turn 50 this year, not getting any younger, that is certain! Cheers, DJM

I got an excellent deal on the coilovers $4500, built to my specs and included a few extras like Tarret toes links. The rest of the parts are all new Tarret components for the Cayman . DJM

I have to admit that kit looks beautiful. You did not say how many miles are on your Porsche and whether or not it needed new shocks. But my guess is that unless your car needed new shocks, your slippery slope may not result in a better handling car. I've read so many posts over the last few years about tweaking this and adjusting that all in an attempt to get the car to handle better than it did when they started. I am probably wrong but it appears that by the time the car gets settled the owner has forgotten how well the car handled before they even started. lol Anyway good luck and have fun, that is what counts anyway!

I am assuming you do not spend much time of the track. I am not simply 'tweaking this and tweaking that' but rather I have worked with two companies (Tarret and Trackone Motorsports) to design a full suspension *system* intended for my track use case scenarios (DE and time trials). It will 'handle better' than OEM, even brand new OEM. DJM

Just from your springrate of the Swift springs, the Tarett GT adjustable swaybars, JRZ double control shocks with remotes, that you can see through the back window. Wow! You will be in control of your suspension and will love those Tarett CUP LCA's solid thrust pucks and monoballs. I like your preparation going into the install. I am also going down that hill fast to phase two install next Monday including, Motorsports AOS, Numeric short shifter & cables, changing the track wider with more Tarett CUP LCA's spacers, going to -2.7f and -2.5r camber, Elephant f & r toe links/bumpsteer adjustments and an alignment with a little 5 minute toe out in front to help quicker turn in. Phase three, close to the bottom of the hill, will be the roll bar, seats, belts, 3rd radiator to keep the oil cool, Cargraphic headers and a Girodisk brake upgrade. Use, PCA Autocross, DE's, track, Tours, daily with tire and shock setting change. Show us your finished product, please!

I think you run a similar setup Apex1 though you use Ohlins, if I recall? Any suggestions on setup? A lot of variables for sure with so many adjustments, but I am having an experienced shop help me with the initial setup, corner balancing and alignment. I anticipate it will take the rest of the season to get the setup sorted out and my hope is to be ready for more serious time trails next season. I actually would have preferred a non-remote setup, but JRZ will not build such a setup for the Cayman as they claim the engine/exhaust heat is too much for the reservoirs. Remotes will be mounted out of site, if possible. Edit: For me I think this is phase 2. Phase 1 was RSS harness bar + Schroth harnesses (Cayman R, came with a carbon buckets), BGB diff cooler, and LN Engineering deep sump oil pan. I have a modified 3.8l oil heat exchanger with the PS circuit removed and a stand alone PS cooler kit. I'll probably put those on later in the season. Next year will be phase 3: rollbar, Girodisks up front, and possibly headers, but being in Calif headers can be a big hassle. We'll see. I'll take some pics before/after the install and get them posted up! Cheers, DJM P.S.: curious which oil you use for DE?

Have your install shop push out the track with internal LCA shims as far as your wheels will allow now. Then have them use the internal camber adjustments to your final settings. I used lovetoturn's setting as my final: -2.7 f and -2.5r. He claims he can use the throttle better coming out the the corners with this settings. I also am following him with 6 degrees of toe out in front as I am using 9 in wheels f and 255/35/18 RE71R's, so a good amount of tire tread in front. The solid thrust puck in the Tarett LCA's lets you have the accuracy without the mushiness of the rubber bearings, so this toeout setting will work for me in turnin and trail braking. These LCA's solid thrust puck really reduce the rear wheel movement forward and back and also the front wheels as well, so your camber will stay as adjusted, especially when using toe links with bumpsteer adjustments as long as your shop has the tool and does that work. My car with the Ohlins, corner balance, Tarett internal shims to LCA's to add camber which lowers the car slightly, is 36 mm lower than OEM on passenger side and 34 mm lower on drivers side when I am not in the car. I weight about 200 lbs so that is figured into the corner balance. You and your shop will have to figure out the ride height and rake that works for you. I am definitely into the bumpsteer arena with my setup, as my shop could not go above -2.5 camber r without the adjustable toe links and they would not use all the internal shims for the r LCA's either (only 4 mm on each side). So having all the parts available first, is a real good start. I had a AOS issue a week ago, so that's what prompted my visit next week to upgrade to the Motorsports AOS, to finalize my suspension issues as well as install the Numeric short shifter and cables. I am still thinking about Function 1st motor mount insert, but may wait for phase 3 on that issue. LN recommends Driven/Joe Gibbs XP-9 which is what I am using due to not causing foam in the heads

Apex1: Wow, thank you for all the setup information! As I researched the various suspension options, it became clearer that if I firm up one area of the suspension with monoballs/spherical links the other soft areas of the suspension would deflect even more dramatically, hence the need to install a 'system'. As I noted on the RL thread, if Ohlins R+Ts had been available when I was shopping for suspension, I most likely would have selected them vs. JRZ. I do have links with bumpsteer adjustments (F/R) although I am not looking to have the car 'slammed'. Being a Cayman R, my ride height is already 20mm lower than a 'S'; another 15 - 20mm lower would be the max I think I'd want to go, but will discuss these details with the shop this AM. BTW, the shop I am going to is fully equipped for all needed suspension setup: corner balancing, bumpsteer adjustment, etc. I was also running 255/35/18 RE71Rs up front (on 8.5s) and 285/30/18s rear (on 10s), but this was when I was still trying to stay within the SCCA 'SS' rules. As I've moved on to time trials the rules are quite a bit different. For the next few events, I will be on Nitto NT01's, 245/40 + 275/40 on the same 18" wheels I've used previously. I really like the RE71Rs except I've found they get quite slippery (mostly rears) when over heated and seem very sensitive to pressure and they certainly heat cycle out before the tread is gone, at least that has been my experience. I've driven NT01s in the past and found them to be an excellent track tire (durable and forgiving) and streetable enough to drive to events without drama. Currently running Motul Xcess 5W40, but have DT40 and XP9 on the way. Thanks again for all the info, will post my final settings and pics once I get car back. Next event is at Sears Point on June 16/17 so will be able to provide initial impressions soon. Cheers, DJM

@DJM68, and you know it handles better because you have timed your track runs back to back? i.e. does 'handle better' mean that it feels better, performs better, or what. Do you have any quantitative data that would substantiate your claim? I've read that peoples lap times have come down, but those tests were not run back to back on identical cars one with and one without the suspension mods. Look you pays your money and you makes your choice. And obviously the stock Porsche is a compromised suspension tuned for both street and track. My only observation is that Porsche has spent millions of marks and decades refining there suspension tune. Aftermarket houses have spent time and money but no where near the same level. People assume that what they can do it better than OEM. Perhaps, but "butt dyno" and "handle better" subjective results is all I ever hear. As I said: you pays your money and you makes your choice. But the question was is it a slippery slope. I think it is and until shown relevant data I am skeptical of the improvements.

DJM, Your install shop may not want to give you more than 15mm of Tarett Cup shims, although Tarett claims they can accept 20 mm. My guess is somesort of unwritten rule between install shops about these internal spacers, which is exactly why I chose Tarett Cups over Elephant LCA's. Better to be on the safe side of any issue, known or unknown. With my race wheels mounted with RE71R with 35 sidewalls, my car is pretty low. I have LN's skid plate over my deep sump just in case and have scrapped it once so far. When you pick up your car, I would have them set it up for the street first, then you can dial in your race settings at Searspoint. You will see what I mean when you start driving around. I took out as much pressure as I could on both sets of tires, especially when doing back country roads with an aggressive swaybar and shock setup. I really got the wet track setup dialed in, but now must be much more aggressive with my shock set up. My swaybars will be 2 hole from stiff both front and rear as my car is pretty well balanced with the 255 f and 275 r set up. Not sure how your NT01's will balance out, 245/275 depending on the tread width f&B compared to the RE71R's 255/285, but your swaybars are totally different now. The Tarett GT swaybars are easy to change the setting with hand tools. The back ones, you will need to crawl under the rear just a little. I have a red jack point bar in the middle of the rear stability plate, so I can lift it up just a little to gain elbow room for the ratchet on the down links. Fronts, just need to get your arm round the tire to change the settings on the swaybar. Since you will have your car corner balanced with weight in the drivers seat, your downlinks will be different lengths (down links adjusted to the spring compression on that side of car) and should fit the holes on both sides without jacking up the car. You do not want to change the down link settings, as that would preload your sway bar, so if you are not on level ground they maynot fit exactly, but you still can tighten them up with a ratchet. Maybe your shop will run through this procedure with you as the corner balance is important to maintain.

RickH, Its about tires and grip. Once you change to R rated tires, especially RE71R's or better yet Hoosiers, your OEM suspension roll is just not suited for this amount of grip. There really is nothing you can do about the body roll. Cantrell Motor Sports says that the rear wheel will move forward and back 2 1/2 inches on OEM suspension parts. I believe him as I destroyed both of my rear OEM LCA's with Tarett downlinks to the soft setting on the Tarett GT adjustable swaybar. The bolt head for the down link scored the LCA's to a point I felt they were unsafe. Luckily, I had ordered Tarett Cup LCA's to replace them the next week. The solid thrust puck in the Tarett Cup LCA changes this forward and back motion to practially 1/2 inch movement. So far, I have had no touching of my expensive Tarett Cup LCA's with the downlink bolt. The spring rate is what really keeps the body roll in check, and as it goes up, as in DJM case, well above 500 lbs/in, body roll is reduced. Add stiffer swaybars and its reduced more. Yes, daily driveablility is at risk here, but you really are talking two different animals here. Just as you would not want to run around town on R rated tires, you certainly do not want to go too far with 700 lbs/in rated springs rates. The shock just trys to mitigate the springrate on rebound and compression to soften the impact of jarring bumps. Then camber needs to be mentioned, as its is usually the first item that gets the suspension tweaked, to protect the outside shoulders of the front tires. OEM to -1.6f and -2.1r may not be enough to prevent the shoulders from coring. Then comes camber plates or LCA's. After that is adjustable swaybars etc. I hear your position. Lovetoturn, is an excellant example of doing both within the Porsche parts catalog and doing it well. My car was not ordered with PSAM, so I do not have that choice, rather still want to track my car with appropriate r rated tires. I also autocross with r rated tires, and my suspension works very well in that event as well. Sooner or later my times will be better than the stock boys, although they have 15 yrs of experience on me, its now less than 1 second, and with more seat time, I believe I can beat them. I did in the wet a month ago, with adjustable shocks, sway bars and tire pressures, I know I can in the dry as well with the same tire.

I do understand your point, though I simply disagree with you. '"butt dyno" and "handle better" subjective results is all I ever hear'. Can you cite examples? You are aware there is entire thread on P9 dedicated to recording track times, right? Obviously I have no data (yet) as the suspension has not been installed. However, I do indeed track my data, both lap times and engine data (via an AIM SOLO DL, wired into the CAN bus) and do I analyze the results. I've done so with other mods such as when I installed a deep sump pan. I will be at Sear Point again (was there two weeks ago) so I should have very good back-to-back data. Porsche spends a lot of Euros to develop (for the most part) *street* suspensions -- very good street suspension, but still street suspensions. One example: insufficient negative camber on the front axle results in uneven wear and premature tire destruction. My use case is no longer street for 90% of the time, hence moving up to a different suspension setup makes sense. One thing I will point out is that many of the after market suspension companies (JRZ, Ohlin, MCS, Bilstein ) also spend significant time/money developing suspension technology. In fact, the shocks on many Porsches are the result of RnD done by Bilstein , not Porsche . Cheers, DJM

So, what was the outcome from your suspension install? I rode with a fellow autocross competitor who routinely sets top time, has a air cooled 911 RS with JRZ double adjustable external reservoir coilovers and stiff springs. His car is flat in the corners, almost no body roll or front/rear dive. Not sure I would want to go on a PCA tour in that car, but its really setup nicely for the track. Any initial impressions?

Should have the car back on Weds -- thought it would be back sooner. Track event the 16th and 17th! I'll post pics of the car when I pick it up from the shop and initial impressions of the drivability on the street. Stay tuned! Cheers, DJM

I know at the end of my first 3 day DE I was getting as much out of my suspension and tires as possible, can't wait to hear how your upgrades changes your car.

Apex, I was interested to see your comments about the tarrett gt bar and the rubbing on the lca. I have the same issue. I tried looks of various lengths but can't seem to avoid some rubbing. It's starting to get more more serious and I'm questioning if I'll continue with this bar. I just went to stiffer springs so I may go to a softer set of bars and end up at the same roll stiffness. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Your rubbing the LCA with the end of the sway bar has nothing to do with the bar and everything to do with the thrust puck that holds the LCA in place for forward and backward's movement. If you are looking for an inexpensive fix, just replace your current OEM thrust puck with a Tarett red solid thrust puck. You will also gain caster and wheelbase adjustments. I am using Tarett Cup LCA's which completely solved my problem and gave me much more camber, added track width, and improved my turnin and trail braking a lot. The inner and outer monoballs really help control motion of the LCA's along with the solid thrust make this single modification a must have for those who need additional camber as well as reducing forward, back and taking out the rubber feeling. I sawed off the softest hole in my rear swaybar to reduce the risk of damage getting the car to my install shop. With the new Tarett LCA's in place, I have had no marks on the side of the black body of the arm from the swaybar. Even with the full soft swaybar, I am pretty sure there would be no touching under heavy braking. A round allen headed bolt would work better not scrapping the LCA's in the rear. Tarett downlinks do not come with that arrangement, rather a regular bolt head that scrapped a gouge in my OEM rear control arms to a point where I thought they would be unsafe. Luckily I had already ordered the Tarett LCA's and had an appointment to put them in. I blamed the Tarett GT swaybar being too long, but in reality it was the old rubber thrust puck on my OEM LCA's allowing more that 2 1/2 inch movement forward and aft to do this damage, especially during braking thrusting the LCA backwards.

Thanks for the informative response. That's an interesting point on the puck. I have a solid set up front but didn't consider the movement it allowed in the rear. I may go that route but after going through the math I'm going to try the stock rear bar with my adjustable front bar. My rear springs are so stiff that the difference in the rear bar is negligible. I may even try running no rear bar to pick up some traction. If things don't work out this way I'll pick up those pucks. S. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Endlich! I finally got the car back this evening. The 20 mile drive back from the shop was absolutely fine. The ride is nowhere too stiff or harsh for the road. Yes, it is firm but you can feel the dampening when hitting larger irregularities and I dare say, is some instances it is smoother than the OEM Cayman R suspension . Probably helps that I am on 40 series NT01s. Hitting a sharp bump in the road does transmit more noise/vibration to the chassis/cabin, but still fully acceptable for my use case of mostly track + an occasional drive on backroads. Camber settings: -2.8F, -2.4R Interesting and a bit disappointing (thought it would be a bit lighter): total weight of the car is 3163 with 150lbs driver in the seat, a full tank of gas and these mods: - LN Engineering 2.5l deep sump - LW battery, 8 lbs with mounting hardware - BGB Motor sport PDK diff cooler - OZ Allegerita wheels - Nitto NT01 tires - Partial rear trunk strip (trunk carpet still intact, engine cover carpet/pad remove, most plastics removed) That works out to 2970ish with 1/2 tank gas and no driver. I still need to figure out initial damper settings for this coming weekend at Sears Points. Should be an interesting weekend with a steep learning curve, I believe. Cheers, DJM Before: After:

Glad you're happy with it! Where did you end up ride height-wise? It looks pretty low. S. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Looks like your wheels fit nicely under the wheel arch, well done. Was the shop able to give your LCA's 5 -6 mm of spacers to add to your track? Glad the setup is not too stiff for the street as its just fun to cruse around, especially back roads.

I am quite pleased with the results thus far. I am rather excited about this weekend at Sears Point, thought somewhat nervous having an entirely new setup on track that is rather challenging and has very little room for error in many areas. The shop pulled the upper strut mounts *all* the way outboard, as far they they would go, then used shims to achieve the camber settings, so maximum track was achieved. I will start with 6 clicks of compression and 5 clicks of rebound in the front and 6 clicks of compression and 8 clicks of rebound in the rear. These settings are gleaned from TPC racing as good starting points for Caymans on JRZ RS Pros. Best, DJM

Ok, results from this weekend at Sears! Objective: on my very first session on Saturday, I posted a time nearly 1 second better than my previous weekend at Sears (2:05 down to 2:04). By end of the weekend I had reduce my times down to 1:59s, consistently. A full 6 seconds of time reduced. Subjective: I am absolutely stunned by the difference in the car. The entire chassis is so communicative now, I can feel absolutely everything that is happening and turn-in, which was already good, is instantaneous. You can adjust the car mid-corner, easily, and accurately at will. It really does feel like 'dancing' with the car. Epic. I did not mess with the setup during the weekend, set the dampers and left them alone for the duration of the event. FWIW: front 6 compression., 5 rebound; rear 6 compression, 8 rebound. Best, DJM

A Hard core Cayman is a TON OF FUN - do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DJM-Sounds like the new suspension surprised you. You have a well thought out system and the installer gave you his best shot at making all the pieces work together. I would give all the credit to your JRZ pick, but do not short the importance of those Tarett Cup LCA's. They quitely gave you the foundation for performance that you are describing. Great job, well done.

Hi Apex: Yes, I was surprised by how dramatic the change in responsiveness and predictability was. I knew it would be big, but I did not think it would be to totally different. Going with a full 'system' vs just a few parts is certainly more expensive; however, while the car was being 'torn apart' for the coilovers, it made financial sense, from a labor cost perspective, to have the shop do a full install. I am also pleasantly surprised that my base line setup (swaybar and damper settings, ride height, tire pressures) worked so well from the get-go. Kudos to the shop for doing such a great job on the setup. Cheers, DJM BTW: until fairly recently, I lived in Portland, OR. I really miss The Ridge Motorsport park. What a track!

Apex, Just wanted to close out part of the conversation about the rubbing swaybar. While I acknowledge your point about reducing movement with the solid puck, I did confirm that the tarrett bar is longer that the stock bar by almost exactly the length of the last hole. So going back to stock is the equivalent of running the second softest hole. In both cases this gives plenty of clearance. S. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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Nice bunch of parts. If you drive in the rain, the rubber ends for the heim joints will keep them clean and extend their life.] V6

For those that changed springs after installation, were you able to make the change without pulling the control arm or did you still need that clearance with the aftermarket coilovers? Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk