981 GT4s no longer PCP eligible - - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I had a lovely 981 GT4 last year but I got rid of it as I want one with 918 buckets, carbon interior pack, PCCBs but no club sport - so the wait continues. One close to perfect spec came up recently on AT and after a couple of calls, I was surprised to learn that the 981 GT4 is no longer eligible for PCP deals - e.g. no lenders (from the brokers I spoke to at least) are willing to guarantee a future value. HP with Balloon options do exist. The specific car in question has a ticket price just over £70k but a book value of c£55k (which I appreciate doesn't mean huge amounts in this segment). Once that car has another c20-30k miles on it and there's no PCP deals available - are we going to see the GT4s finally enter into the mid-late 50's or below? Seems like only option will be cash buyers or to chop it in - which could be painful for someone buying one now?

There was always talk of 981 GT4 dropping into the 50s before the pandemic and car prices all went up. We never saw it and I doubt we will for a long time. The car was underpriced when it was sold new, it's the first generation GT4. To some it's flawed but even the 718GT4 didn't exactly make it perfect.

hiccup said: I had a lovely 981 GT4 last year but I got rid of it as I want one with 918 buckets, carbon interior pack, PCCBs but no club sport - so the wait continues. One close to perfect spec came up recently on AT and after a couple of calls, I was surprised to learn that the 981 GT4 is no longer eligible for PCP deals - e.g. no lenders (from the brokers I spoke to at least) are willing to guarantee a future value. HP with Balloon options do exist. The specific car in question has a ticket price just over £70k but a book value of c£55k (which I appreciate doesn't mean huge amounts in this segment). Once that car has another c20-30k miles on it and there's no PCP deals available - are we going to see the GT4s finally enter into the mid-late 50's or below? Seems like only option will be cash buyers or to chop it in - which could be painful for someone buying one now? Interesting… I picked mine up in March. 918 buckets, carbon pack, ppf in the vulnerable areas, Sport Chrono, 19.6k miles for £72k. Prestige dealer selling it sorted the £47k finance through Alphera (BMW Finance). Only needed for 3 months and no penalties for early settlement. As good as gets for what I needed. It’s a keeper. Renting and balloon payments aren’t for me… let’s see what others are find as they attempt to find their perfect car.

Am I correct in thinking PCP is the reason car prices generally are so high? PCP buyers don't care what the list price is, just the monthly payments. I look at some of the Korean "boring" cars at £40-45k and think... "really?"

DJMC said: Am I correct in thinking PCP is the reason car prices generally are so high? PCP buyers don't care what the list price is, just the monthly payments. I look at some of the Korean "boring" cars at £40-45k and think... "really?" The car buying in this country is built on pcp deals now. No one cares what the list price is just what the monthly cost is . Hence you get people pay £400-500 for normal cars. If you ring a dealer up and want to buy outright they lose interest quickly because they want you to finance the car and come back to them in 3 -4 years to pcp your next one. Hence why list prices for normal cars are so high and no one is interested in discounting cars . In the middle of covid a dealer buying a friends 3 year old A3 said I know we are paying to much for your car but we need stock to sell or we will go out of business. He listed at £500 more than he paid for it but said he would make his money on the finance deal.

ClubsportStr said: DJMC said: Am I correct in thinking PCP is the reason car prices generally are so high? PCP buyers don't care what the list price is, just the monthly payments. I look at some of the Korean "boring" cars at £40-45k and think... "really?" The car buying in this country is built on pcp deals now. No one cares what the list price is just what the monthly cost is . Hence you get people pay £400-500 for normal cars. If you ring a dealer up and want to buy outright they lose interest quickly because they want you to finance the car and come back to them in 3 -4 years to pcp your next one. Hence why list prices for normal cars are so high and no one is interested in discounting cars . In the middle of covid a dealer buying a friends 3 year old A3 said I know we are paying to much for your car but we need stock to sell or we will go out of business. He listed at £500 more than he paid for it but said he would make his money on the finance deal. It's been like this for over a decade. Once the money men of the world collapsed the house mortgage market in 2008, they just moved onto a person's next biggest asset purchase....their car. Interesting that it coincided with the rise of the 'options pricing gone mad' era....sure it's only another £20 to your monthly....

DJMC said: Am I correct in thinking PCP is the reason car prices generally are so high? PCP buyers don't care what the list price is, just the monthly payments. I look at some of the Korean "boring" cars at £40-45k and think... "really?" Could very well be the case… Ford invented PCP back in the 90’s giving customers an opportunity to ‘own’ a new car and do so every 3 years. Really, as we know, know it’s just a week to keep producing cars and getting them sold. As you say, if they can make the monthlies and move onto whatever takes their fancy in 3 years why not… it’s the depreciation they’re covering. If a GT4 gets down to mid to low £50’s they’d be a big correction on certainly everything below it, and stuff above.

HighwayStar said: If a GT4 gets down to mid to low £50’s.... They won't any time soon. No chance.

Twinfan said: HighwayStar said: If a GT4 gets down to mid to low £50’s.... They won't any time soon. No chance. I agree but

PCPing is a very expensive way to own or rent a car for sure. But it was free motoring for the last 5 if not 7 years on gt4 which made it easy to fund. My guess is all that stuff now might be headed south as people only capable of.putting down 10% cannot play the game. Less people able to play means less buyers ... I haven't looked at the figures but it probably means that a 718gt4 is "cheaper" to carry for 18 months "rent" than the 981

Twinfan said: HighwayStar said: If a GT4 gets down to mid to low £50’s.... They won't any time soon. No chance. Agreed… wasn’t backing the OP’s musing on future GT4 values.

Question is what are rising interest/mortgage rates and the squeeze on peoples incomes going to have on the PCP market or the car market in general?

anonymous said: [redacted] Depends… there’ll be buyers out there with cash to buy whatever car for £75k with cash, cash plus finance… my mate bought his Cayman R with money from his flexible Mortgage. That’s cheap money… Others will keep there cash for investments, use finance rather than tie there wedge up in depreciating vehicle. Me, I prefer to own everything around me and haven’t had a loan for a car since the 90’s. With nice redundancy payout at the end of June and retirement I’ve allowed 3 or so months PCP for the GT4. No way I’d have gone down the PCP route otherwise. At the end of the day it’s down to one’s personal circumstances and outlook.

hiccup said: I had a lovely 981 GT4 last year but I got rid of it as I want one with 918 buckets, carbon interior pack, PCCBs but no club sport - so the wait continues. One close to perfect spec came up recently on AT and after a couple of calls, I was surprised to learn that the 981 GT4 is no longer eligible for PCP deals - e.g. no lenders (from the brokers I spoke to at least) are willing to guarantee a future value. HP with Balloon options do exist. The specific car in question has a ticket price just over £70k but a book value of c£55k (which I appreciate doesn't mean huge amounts in this segment). Once that car has another c20-30k miles on it and there's no PCP deals available - are we going to see the GT4s finally enter into the mid-late 50's or below? Seems like only option will be cash buyers or to chop it in - which could be painful for someone buying one now? A number of finance providers have a max age at the end of the agreement where they are prepared to guarantee a residual value so I suspect the issue is an age thing rather than being model specific. You can always go lease purchase to get lower monthly payments than HP but you are on the hook for the terminal value.

Most finance companies will not do a PCP on a vehicle that will be over 10 years old at the end of the agreement - Some will only do 8 years old. With 981's being 2016 getting a 4 year PCP will not happen on a 48 month. Ask the finance provider to look at a 42 month.

It was a 24 month quote - went to 36 out of interest and both were not eligible.

Speak to Oracle Finance - ask for Scott - they are doing one for me on a 2015 GT4 as we speak.

ClubsportStr said: The car buying in this country is built on pcp deals now. No one cares what the list price is just what the monthly cost is . Hence you get people pay £400-500 for normal cars. If you ring a dealer up and want to buy outright they lose interest quickly because they want you to finance the car and come back to them in 3 -4 years to pcp your next one. Hence why list prices for normal cars are so high and no one is interested in discounting cars . In the middle of covid a dealer buying a friends 3 year old A3 said I know we are paying to much for your car but we need stock to sell or we will go out of business. He listed at £500 more than he paid for it but said he would make his money on the finance deal. Kinda think that’s most major car dealers business model judging by the price they paid us last year for a 19 plate Mini. (6 months later they value the same car 25% lower so a great example of mean reversion/prices have calmed down) Car dealers are now finance houses where the commodity just happens to be a car.

DJMC said: Am I correct in thinking PCP is the reason car prices generally are so high? PCP buyers don't care what the list price is, just the monthly payments. I look at some of the Korean "boring" cars at £40-45k and think... "really?" Increasing the pool of buyers making otherwise unaffordable cars more obtainable must inflate prices to a degree…. Unfortunate for people in their 20’s as if tempted with having a £30-40k shinny car on their parents drive for £500 a month it probably increases their chances of not owning a property.

When I advertised my TTS in 2015 on AT for a reasonable £25k I didn't get one call, for weeks. Had to sell to Audi in the end. I put this down to nobody having £25k cash and preferring to buy the same car from Audi on PCP. Other, cheaper, cars I'd sold in the past for £4-8k went very quickly. Perhaps £15-20k is the threshold over which most buyers need dealer finance facilities?

DJMC said: When I advertised my TTS in 2015 on AT for a reasonable £25k I didn't get one call, for weeks. Had to sell to Audi in the end. I put this down to nobody having £25k cash and preferring to buy the same car from Audi on PCP. Other, cheaper, cars I'd sold in the past for £4-8k went very quickly. Perhaps £15-20k is the threshold over which most buyers need dealer finance facilities? I bought my Merc last April ‘21 from a main dealer for £22k in cash - no way would l want to take the risk buying privately should anything go south… Mercedes also provided an extended warranty, service and MOT as part of the deal.

I bought my Merc from Merc UK... So many problems they bought it back 5 months later, for what I paid. So I get what you're saying!

I advertised my 981 CS in AT in Feb… with 82k miles I thought I’d struggle to sell it to be honest but got a call an hour after the ad went live. He viewed the next day, sold, local doctor who had been looking for months… spent his 2yrs of covid overtime money. £3k more than was offered px. He was the only call I got! I was just lucky.

HighwayStar said: I advertised my 981 CS in AT in Feb… with 82k miles I thought I’d struggle to sell it to be honest but got a call an hour after the ad went live. He viewed the next day, sold, local doctor who had been looking for months… spent his 2yrs of covid overtime money. £3k more than was offered px. He was the only call I got! I was just lucky. There's a classic case of the 'marginal buyer'. If they start leaving the building, then things get interesting fast...

DJMC said: I bought my Merc from Merc UK... So many problems they bought it back 5 months later, for what I paid. So I get what you're saying! Maybe that's saying don't buy a more modern Merc I bought my fully optioned 2011 e350 estate in 2016/17 privately for £11.5k....when dealers wanted £17k. It's been the best car I've every owned.

Mine was a 2010 E350 Cab, bought in 2014. Merc "forgot" to do the pre-sale check, then the paint started falling off. The did a perfect respray, guaranteed 30 years and found 13 other faults which they fixed. But when rain then started dripping on me, roof up, that was it. I'd had a leaking car before and the leak could never be fixed. That went back too - Aston.

hiccup said: I had a lovely 981 GT4 last year but I got rid of it as I want one with 918 buckets, carbon interior pack, PCCBs but no club sport - so the wait continues. One close to perfect spec came up recently on AT and after a couple of calls, I was surprised to learn that the 981 GT4 is no longer eligible for PCP deals - e.g. no lenders (from the brokers I spoke to at least) are willing to guarantee a future value. HP with Balloon options do exist. The specific car in question has a ticket price just over £70k but a book value of c£55k (which I appreciate doesn't mean huge amounts in this segment). Once that car has another c20-30k miles on it and there's no PCP deals available - are we going to see the GT4s finally enter into the mid-late 50's or below? Seems like only option will be cash buyers or to chop it in - which could be painful for someone buying one now? Daft question, but with HP with balloon, is the only major difference to PCP that it’s the buyer taking on the residual value risk as there’s no option just to hand it back?

Jawls said: Daft question, but with HP with balloon, is the only major difference to PCP that it’s the buyer taking on the residual value risk as there’s no option just to hand it back? PCP you buy the car at c£75k with a GFV of c£50-£55k on a 981 GT4 (I'm sure others will quote more recent figures) and it's guaranteed that the car is worth that at the expiry (regardless of what it's market value is). You therefore 'hand it back' to the lender and they take the risk of it being less / more. HP with balloon - if you spend £75k on the car now with no guaranteed future value, at the end of the term, you settle the balloon regardless which will be similar to the GFV (£50-£55k) in 2024/2025 at deal end. In both scenarios, you could at any point SOR the car with a dealer or sell privately but per conversation the market is shrinking, especially for higher miles / non top-spec cars or SOR and receive more than GFV (or balloon), settle the finance and pocket the diff. So basically - it's who takes the risk and given conditions I hope I'm proved wrong but I cant see a high miles (40-50k miles) GT4 in 2025 being worth anything above what would be the GFV on the open market. Will set a calendar reminder to jump back and relight the post in 3 years.

Seems to confuse the OPC that I only ever pay cash at full value when I buy from them. They still make me sit through a meeting with a "finance manager" that tries to convince me I'm better off not owning my next car outright every time. Porsches have really low depreciation compared to most marques. If you can afford it, it's low risk just to buy the car. My 2016 981 GT4 looks like about £13k depreciation over 3 1/2 years, which is low compared to most cars of similar value. It's all pretty immaterial given that I'm unlikely to sell it before it's 20 years old. If PCP eligibility is suffering, I bet it's more to do with the need for the financiers to make money than anything real. I feel pretty fortunate in not needing to deal with them. If anyone can find a way of grabbing a good 981 GT4 for around £70k, It's probably going to pay dividends to still own it in 3 years' time. if it doesn't, meh, my one is not for sale anyway. Liam Edited by LiamH66 on Friday 3rd June 01:11