992 Gen 2 - 4.0 NA? - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Looking at the latest spy photos and speculation there is chatter about the 4.0 power plant being dropped into the Gen 2 GTS. If this is true then it would need to develop more than the current GTS so let’s say 500BHP. Two points spring to mind: Is this realistic as an option do we think and How desireable V the existing Turbo 3.0 GTS?

My opinion: 1. Completely unrealistic regarding the power 2. But completely desirable regarding the delivery and noise

wider power band but lower power than a gt3 engine would make a great road car, s type suspension would be ideal too

Now if they could just make it narrower, smaller and lighter that would be something desirable as along as it was actually buyable. They could do it old fashioned speedster style, make it much cut down and cheaper. Would be a winner.

Depends how brave Porsche is feeling. What manufacturer will launch a car that's slower than it's predecessor? Current GTS has 420 lbs/ft between 2 and 5K, impossible with 4.0 NA.

The 991.1 GTS had 430bhp from an NA 3.8, so something around 450bhp seems reasonable from the NA 4.0. Turbo power changes the game, so in terms of straight line pace, it won't hold a candle to the 992.1 GTS, and I doubt it will even be quicker than the 992.1 S. However, outright pace isn't the appeal of this car is it. If they could find some way to lighten it by a meaningful amount, not put in stupidly long gearing (in either PDK or MT form) and drop a 450bhp NA engine in the back, it could be a real peach. However, it's still Porsche though innit? So nobody will be able to get an allocation and we'll have the overs nonsense, killing the excitement for all but a select few.

I saw some speculation that it might be the 4L NA combined with hybrid to boost performance and/or offer reduced emissions depending on driving mode. Wouldn't necessarily be the GTS could even be the standard Carrera. Whatever they decide would have to be Euro 7 compliant.

I suppose it’s possible, but most owners don’t have any issue with the turbo engines. Whatever happens I suspect it will be incrementally heavier, more power, bigger brakes and perhaps a bit less good looking.

andywalton said: I saw some speculation that it might be the 4L NA combined with hybrid to boost performance and/or offer reduced emissions depending on driving mode. Wouldn't necessarily be the GTS could even be the standard Carrera. Whatever they decide would have to be Euro 7 compliant. Hybrid means PDK box doesn’t it ? That means no manual gearbox…so unlikely to be across the rnage. Personally I think it’s unlikely. There was lots of speculation about I think the 991.2 GTS being naturally aspirated….think more than one magazine ran it as a story. Obviously it wasn’t.

No manual in the 992.1 Carrera ...

992.2 will be a hybrid. As such, I assume the N/A engine being banded around would work absolutely fine with the hybrid technology to ensure it quicker than the 992.1. I have a 992.1 GTS and its rapid. Not sure why for road use you'd need anything quicker. I suspect a GT3 would struggle to keep up (obviously on track it would be a whole different ball game). I also have a 992.2 GTS on order (well, I am officially on the waiting list for a replacement GTS, but will be holding out for a gen.2 if offered one before), and think the hybrid combination will be epic. Yes, it would be PDK only I suspect, but to me personally thats fine as preferable anyway.

Hobo said: 992.2 will be a hybrid. As such, I assume the N/A engine being banded around would work absolutely fine with the hybrid technology to ensure it quicker than the 992.1. I have a 992.1 GTS and its rapid. Not sure why for road use you'd need anything quicker. I suspect a GT3 would struggle to keep up (obviously on track it would be a whole different ball game). I also have a 992.2 GTS on order (well, I am officially on the waiting list for a replacement GTS, but will be holding out for a gen.2 if offered one before), and think the hybrid combination will be epic. Yes, it would be PDK only I suspect, but to me personally thats fine as preferable anyway. I have a bit of a dilemma in that have a new 992T coming in a few weeks but also have a 992 GTS Cab on order, that was meant to be a gen 2 but I suspect will actually be offered a Gen 1 by summer time. So, do I take the Gen 1 or hang back for The Gen 2? definitely a first world problem but I’ve not decided which way to jump!

I assumed the rumoured 4.0 NA in the 992.2 would of been for the Carrera T and therefore would only need ~ 420 BHP Edited by diffstar on Thursday 9th February 20:38

It's all speculation this is. My understanding is that only the Turbo/Turbo S will be given the hybrid treatment first in the 992.2 generation, to compete with the offerings from Ferrari and McLaren in terms of overall performance. And that all Carrera models will still be ICE - non hybrid. With regards to a 4.0 NA, no thanks! Why would I want something slower? As Hobo has alluded to above, the current 992 GTS is a weapon and quicker than a 992 GT3 in the real world. And I know sound is a subjective topic, but the 992 GTS sounds great IMHO, with the less sound deadening it's really got a nice howl the higher up the rev range you go. I've had some great high revving NA cars in the past, cars with award winning engines such as the EP3 Type R and E92 M3 4.0 V8. As good as they were, there was always a lack of torque and you really had to rev the nuts off to experience the fun, wrong gear and you could be embarrassed by the lesser car. Once I experienced the Turbo kick of the M4 Comp, there was no going back. And the 992 GTS engine is on another level compared to the M4 in that it pulls much stronger from lower down, I honestly can't feel any lag and it pulls very hard all the way to the redline. I bloody love it! So I for one will not be getting excited by any 4.0 NA engine, heavier on fuel and slower, no thanks!

I've been thinking about this, and one left field idea would be that they are all hybrid, with only the Turbo having, you know, turbos. A hybrid system would boost the NA engine too. Simpler to manufacture if the only change is the engine, rather than the full configuration.

stuckmojo said: I've been thinking about this, and one left field idea would be that they are all hybrid, with only the Turbo having, you know, turbos. A hybrid system would boost the NA engine too. Simpler to manufacture if the only change is the engine, rather than the full configuration. I can't think of any manufacturer that is currently offering this. All Hybrid cars I can think of are Petrol Turbos with a Hybrid add on. I don't think the car would be fuel efficient enough or have the performance levels they desire without the addition of some turbos.

The latest spyshots from testing in Cape Town show a car with centrally placed exhausts. Could point towards NA engine or could just be a new design similar to the 991T?!

rkwm1 said: The latest spyshots from testing in Cape Town show a car with centrally placed exhausts. Could point towards NA engine or could just be a new design similar to the 991T?! Yeah I saw this yesterday. My initial thoughts were that perhaps they've just relocated the exhausts and following a similar design to what they had with the 991.2. But I don't like the look of those front intakes, much prefer the current design, clearly they are active intakes that will open and close as required.

rkwm1 said: The latest spyshots from testing in Cape Town show a car with centrally placed exhausts. Could point towards NA engine or could just be a new design similar to the 991T?! I've seen the winter testing / ring testing photos, but these are much clearer. The exhausts look odd. The left hand side looks like a traditional exit, the right hand side looks completely fake. Different shape and looking inside it looks like it is not actually an exhaust.

You cracked it ..... its a 4 , not a 4.0 , normally aspirated inline 4 cylinder

andywalton said: I've seen the winter testing / ring testing photos, but these are much clearer. The exhausts look odd. The left hand side looks like a traditional exit, the right hand side looks completely fake. Different shape and looking inside it looks like it is not actually an exhaust. It definitely is different but if you look at the bodywork closely you can see there is loads of plastic camouflage on the back of the car so who knows what is real and what bear any relation to the finished product. My guess is that whole rear piece that surrounds the exhausts and continues to the corners of the car is fake.

Cheib said: andywalton said: I've seen the winter testing / ring testing photos, but these are much clearer. The exhausts look odd. The left hand side looks like a traditional exit, the right hand side looks completely fake. Different shape and looking inside it looks like it is not actually an exhaust. It definitely is different but if you look at the bodywork closely you can see there is loads of plastic camouflage on the back of the car so who knows what is real and what bear any relation to the finished product. My guess is that whole rear piece that surrounds the exhausts and continues to the corners of the car is fake. On closer inspection of the pics, I agree with your observations.

My dealer’s (guildford) input on the matter… “ We are estimating around 18 months for the release of the 992.2 and a further 6 months or so for the 992.2 GTS.”

R33FAL said: My dealer’s (guildford) input on the matter… “ We are estimating around 18 months for the release of the 992.2 and a further 6 months or so for the 992.2 GTS.” Spoke to my OPC on Saturday and he said very similar.

Wow, potential 2 years for Gen 2 GTS - that seems a very long way off!

finmac said: Wow, potential 2 years for Gen 2 GTS - that seems a very long way off! I'd say two years for a GTS is very optimistic / unrealistic. Historically, the GTS variant has never been released within a year of the new generation or a gen2 release. 992.1 launched in the UK ~March 2019, GTS launched ~June 2021. The 997.2 and 991.1 GTS releases were at least as long into the cycle. The shortest gap of ~15 months was with the 991.2 (October 2015 / January 2017) The GTS release is timed to prop up sales when the generation is in the latter half of the lifecycle and the next generation or update on the horizon. Quite a successful strategy IMO, so I find it very unlikely they will start producing them 6 months after 992.2 release.

Nuttcase said: I'd say two years for a GTS is very optimistic / unrealistic. Historically, the GTS variant has never been released within a year of the new generation or a gen2 release. 992.1 launched in the UK ~March 2019, GTS launched ~June 2021. The 997.2 and 991.1 GTS releases were at least as long into the cycle. The shortest gap of ~15 months was with the 991.2 (October 2015 / January 2017) The GTS release is timed to prop up sales when the generation is in the latter half of the lifecycle and the next generation or update on the horizon. Quite a successful strategy IMO, so I find it very unlikely they will start producing them 6 months after 992.2 release. Also the case for the Carrera T I feel

Yup. When 992 comes out it will almost certainly be Carrera/S only available so….then six months in Turbo S. Then six to twelve months later GTS. They don’t make enough 911’s to be able to make all of them at the same time in any numbers…..and this way the OPC’s favoured customers all buy an early Carrera S to sell it a couple of months later to buy a Turbo S to sell that six months later to buy a GTS, It also supports residuals as once production has been has changed from Carrera/S to GTS they barely make any of the former so it keeps residuals firm and similarly whilst they are now making loads of 992.1 GTS’s the two year gap in availability before the 992.2 GTS supports residuals. They’re not stupid…..

They’re also shifting serious of metal into China which is where their interest lies!

Schuey_911 said: R33FAL said: My dealer’s (guildford) input on the matter… “ We are estimating around 18 months for the release of the 992.2 and a further 6 months or so for the 992.2 GTS.” Spoke to my OPC on Saturday and he said very similar. This was discussed on the T thread. Launch will be circa March/April 2024 atm.

rkwm1 said: Schuey_911 said: R33FAL said: My dealer’s (guildford) input on the matter… “ We are estimating around 18 months for the release of the 992.2 and a further 6 months or so for the 992.2 GTS.” Spoke to my OPC on Saturday and he said very similar. This was discussed on the T thread. Launch will be circa March/April 2024 atm. Good to know, thank you. Means my 992 GTS will be the latest version of the model for some time yet, therefore no complaints from me.

rkwm1 said: This was discussed on the T thread. Launch will be circa March/April 2024 atm. Time will tell ... the other view is that Porsche will follow their norrnal lifecycle, so .2 will be launched this year for build from the new MY24. First UK cars may well be Q1 2024 as the usual allocation process which gives the US and Germany first build batches. I don't think SEs know either way at this stage. They just want people to keep the faith and hang on to those deposits.

Joscal said: They’re also shifting serious of metal into China which is where their interest lies! Soon to come to an end. Gucci sales down 15% in last quarter and a big portion of that in China. Other luxury brands will follow then cars!

We’re in for a bumpy ride for sure but China is now a bigger market than Europe. It’s is almost unbelievable to me as a visitor in the late 80’s! Everyone wore the same blue suits and there were very few cars, just bikes! It’s a phenomenal success story and the desire for Western Brands is enormous. Who knows what the future holds though!

So it should be. Its population is more than Europe, North and South America combined! Everywhere has progressed. I remember in the 80's if you saw somebody driving around in a Merc or BMW you used to think they had made it. Now they are parked up everywhere and supercars on every road in central London!

rkwm1 said: So it should be. Its population is more than Europe, North and South America combined! Everywhere has progressed. I remember in the 80's if you saw somebody driving around in a Merc or BMW you used to think they had made it. Now they are parked up everywhere and supercars on every road in central London! Back in 1985 myself and a group of Uni mates spent a week driving around West Germany in a coupe of Caterham type sports cars. It was an eye opener in that Germany was in my eyes the cleanest, most modern and most prosperous country I'd ever been to. The autobahns were crammed full of BMWs and Mercs cruising at 100+ MPH. What a letdown it was returning to the UK which even back then felt like a third world country in comparison. Got the same impression when returning across the Eurotunnel last year on the way home from LeMans.

Revised FAKE Press Release: Porsche Introduces the 992.2 Model with Exciting New Derivatives and a Revolutionary Financing Scheme Stuttgart, Germany - Porsche is proud to announce the latest addition to its 911 family - the 992.2 model, featuring an array of impressive performance upgrades and technologies that offer the ultimate driving experience. The 992.2 model introduces four new derivatives that are sure to satisfy the most demanding car enthusiasts. The base 911 Carrera model now features a new flat-six boxer 4.0L motor that delivers 400PS with an 8-speed PDK transmission, providing an exhilarating driving experience. For those seeking even more power, the 911 Carrera S now inherits the 992.1 GTS motor with 485PS and a choice of 6-speed manual transmission or 8-speed PDK. This model promises an unparalleled driving experience, with impressive handling and acceleration. The 911 Carrera GTS is a game-changer, boasting a naturally aspirated motor that delivers 500PS and a 150PS KERS hybrid system, producing a total of 650PS. This remarkable combination of power and efficiency offers the perfect balance between speed and fuel economy. Last but not least, the 911 Targa 4S features the 400PS motor with a 100PS KERS system, producing 500PS in total. This innovation eliminates the turbo lag when starting at lower RPM, ensuring an effortless driving experience. In addition to these exciting new derivatives, Porsche is also introducing a revolutionary financing scheme for its customers. Shareholders of P911 preference shares, listed on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange (XETRA), will receive a price reduction on the new 992.2 cars. For every 100 of P911 shares held for a year, customers will get 1% price reduction. The 992.2 model is a true testament to Porsche's commitment to innovation and performance. With these impressive new derivatives and financing scheme, Porsche continues to push the boundaries of what is possible in the world of high-performance sports cars. The 992.2 model is now available for order at Porsche dealerships worldwide. To learn more about these new models and financing scheme, visit the Porsche website or contact your local dealer. About Porsche: Porsche is a German sports car manufacturer known for producing some of the world's most iconic and high-performance sports cars. Founded in 1931, Porsche has a rich history of engineering excellence, innovation, and design, with a focus on delivering an unparalleled driving experience to its customers.

R33FAL said: My dealer’s (guildford) input on the matter… “ We are estimating around 18 months for the release of the 992.2 and a further 6 months or so for the 992.2 GTS.” I also deal with Guildford, and I was told 992.2 in S/base is imminent in 2023 with GTS 12-18 months later

Taffy66 said: Back in 1985 myself and a group of Uni mates spent a week driving around West Germany in a coupe of Caterham type sports cars. It was an eye opener in that Germany was in my eyes the cleanest, most modern and most prosperous country I'd ever been to. The autobahns were crammed full of BMWs and Mercs cruising at 100+ MPH. What a letdown it was returning to the UK which even back then felt like a third world country in comparison. Got the same impression when returning across the Eurotunnel last year on the way home from LeMans. You know what, I had this exact same impression driving back from the Alps last week. England really is going down the pan.

bosshog said: Taffy66 said: Back in 1985 myself and a group of Uni mates spent a week driving around West Germany in a coupe of Caterham type sports cars. It was an eye opener in that Germany was in my eyes the cleanest, most modern and most prosperous country I'd ever been to. The autobahns were crammed full of BMWs and Mercs cruising at 100+ MPH. What a letdown it was returning to the UK which even back then felt like a third world country in comparison. Got the same impression when returning across the Eurotunnel last year on the way home from LeMans. You know what, I had this exact same impression driving back from the Alps last week. England really is going down the pan. Do you think 992 Dakar will become a regular production vehicle... it seems well suited for our roads :-)

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rkwm1 said: Nice mule rear bumper... wonder what's it hiding.

Pivo said: Nice mule rear bumper... wonder what's it hiding. Twin centre pipes hopefully!

Joscal said: Twin centre pipes hopefully! More likely an aggressive new diffuser.

Taffy66 said: Joscal said: Twin centre pipes hopefully! More likely an aggressive new diffuser. Would be cool if we got both.

Interesting speculation on 992.2: