Anyone had a Boxster and a S2000 to compare - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Not reaping looking for what’s quicker etc. S2000 is a car I’ve always fancied owning, for the fun, good gearbox, low maintenance cost, good reliability with a drop top at around £10-15k seems to be able to pick up decent ones Although Boxster with the premium finish, flat six is something else I fancy trying. Even the 986 S has grown on me, being a future classic and actually I like the exterior having aged well. Again base models I see can be £5k, which is great summer motoring I see. 987.1 looked good value pre covid but price rises with potential known issues pushes the boundary for cheaper motoring as 987.2 are much more. Anyone had both? Summer fun. Daily. Weekend use. Ultimately I’ll like a Cayman R

I have a low mileage yellow S2000 sat in my collection and I used it last year to do the Nc500 and tbh its hard work to drive, the F20c motor is gutless low down and even in Vtec nothing to write home about which is a shame as the rest of the car actually isn't bad, gearbox is good and handles ok and they have aged really well, I debated on doing a K24 swap to it which would make it more useable but it would kill the value. Since buying the Boxster the only time i will likely use it now is for car shows. value wise they have crept up, mine has close to doubled in price in the last 18 months,

PS . I always thought an Mx5 does everything that and s2000 can only better, I run a late model 2.0 Sport ND over winter couple of years ago and that was a hoot to drive, downside is they are not that quick, do not make the nicest of noises and you will never look back when you park it up but on a back country lane for the money they really do take a bit of beating.

Had a 2005 S2000 as a weekend car back in 2015, and sold my 987.1 3.2S earlier this year. S2000 - I never gelled with it despite being a huge Honda fanboy ( x2 DC2, DC5, EG6 SiRII, Supercharged EP3). Corrosion was an issue and very common on them, the eccentric alignment bolts seized solid around £1500 to resolve with TGM and is common. Decent tyres and a good wheel alignment a must on these. The steering wheel is fixed position and was too low for me (6’3”), even fitted a lowered seat rail which helped but didn’t totally resolve. Power delivery is typically Honda of that era and you have to work it hard to get any performance. Never inspired confidence on the handling either, and of all my friends that had them over the years of varying driving abilities they all had some kind of ‘moment’ in them. Boxster Great power delivery, with nice linear power and a slight bump around 5k rpm. Fantastic driving position with controls in perfect location. Handling really confidence inspiring and rewarding to push, loads of feedback through wheel. But they are at the age of needing maintenance, common issues - front condensers, corroded coolant pipes, corroded exhaust fixings which will fail, corroded brake pipes, all the talk of IMS bearings (£500 to do once gearbox off). Mine did me for about £5k of “maintenance” through common issues which the specialist said is like an identikit on this gen of Porsches (997/987). I loved the Boxster and now have a newer 981 GTS, sadly I think the S2000 was the last Honda I’ll own and doubt I’ll go back sadly. Try both if you can as they are the same idea executed very differently.

I have owned an s2000 for a few years now, it’s purpose is track + daily. I can’t comment on a comparison with the boxster, but I have previously owned a 996 Turbo and the S2k shares it’s garage space with my beloved 997 GT3. As above the engine can feel gutless in certain scenarios (traffic etc) but this flips entirely when pushing on. On track the car comes alive and fizzes nicely. My major gripe with it is the electric steering, which to me is a little vague. This leads to a sketchy back end. Perhaps it needs a proper geo to add a bit of communication. The cabin is also very cramped so if you are a bigger person you need to sit in one. Chap above has covered most of the common issues to look for, I can’t think of much else I imagine the Boxster will feel a lot more relaxed and grown up, the Honda on the other hand is a darty little thing. Edited by shantybeater on Saturday 30th April 21:51

I have a 2003, 2.7 986, I owned a 1999 S2000 many years ago. To me, the S2000 is not an easy car to daily, it's far too noisy, but that's just me being old. The gear change is superb, the best thing about the car I remember. The engine great too but as stated above is gutless low down, that never bothered me to be honest. The biggest negative thing that I found was at higher speeds the car felt very twitchy. By comparison a Boxster feels very planted and controllable. The Boxster is a way better car to daily, rear boot is bigger than the S2000's and it has a front trunk as well. Obviously more torque from the engine but it certainly is nothing special. The steering feel is far superior to the Honda's. If I had a choice of a second car for the sunnier days, the Honda S2000 I would buy. It isn't the better car overall, but it is more special. That's compared to a 2.7, not sure if I'd say the same with the 3.2. I had my S2000 tuned with some nice n tasty mods, Volk CE28N alloys, Mugen hardtop, Powerhouse Amuse exhaust, J's Racing bonnet and much more. I think that's something Japanese cars have that appeals to some that doesn't the German's don't. Edited by JohnnyMac on Saturday 30th April 23:34

I had an S2000, it’s the shortest time I’ve ever owned a car for. Ticked every box on paper but was extremely disappointing thing to own compared to the old 3.0sc that I had previously and wasn’t a patch on the early Cayman I bought afterwards. It’s hard to describe what the problem was because it was a clean reliable car, it just wasn’t very likeable.

Steve H said: I had an S2000, it’s the shortest time I’ve ever owned a car for. Ticked every box on paper but was extremely disappointing thing to own compared to the old 3.0sc that I had previously and wasn’t a patch on the early Cayman I bought afterwards. It’s hard to describe what the problem was because it was a clean reliable car, it just wasn’t very likeable. and I wonder who you stuck that into lol. think I drove it once and was equally as disappointed and kept it for an even shorter time. Strange a good 10 years or so later they don't feel quite as bad,its just the motor that I dislike, I actually think with a K24 swap they would be a half decent package. my only reservation with getting a Porsche of similar value is the potential of higher running costs with a chance of the motor self grenading. other thing to watch on S2000 is later ones are the higher tax think its late 2006- £500 plus?

Thanks all I’ve driven one about 10 years ago and was left disappointed with the lack of power delivery. Although a decade has gone by and I’m appreciative of things with more character and involvement. I like the statement above , it’s not better but more special. I fully know of the above electric steering, geo bolts and high revving with lack of punch The thought of good reliability, high revving , NA, manual I like, especially having had a DC5 and now understand Type R appreciation Although I’ve always had a Porsche appreciation too. Maybe a 987.2 would be best, but £20k plus for a decent S, surely can have fun for a bit less. If I could I would put money in a Cayman R though. 996 c4s is always a dream looking car for me, but sometimes I know it’s best left a dream for some cars Someone mentioned the mx5 above. If they had a decent engine, wow what a motor it could have been in all generations. Good value top down motoring

JeffC said: and I wonder who you stuck that into lol. You were keen to get rid of that Westfield as I recall

celica88 said: Thanks all I’ve driven one about 10 years ago and was left disappointed with the lack of power delivery. Although a decade has gone by and I’m appreciative of things with more character and involvement. I like the statement above , it’s not better but more special. I fully know of the above electric steering, geo bolts and high revving with lack of punch The thought of good reliability, high revving , NA, manual I like, especially having had a DC5 and now understand Type R appreciation Although I’ve always had a Porsche appreciation too. Maybe a 987.2 would be best, but £20k plus for a decent S, surely can have fun for a bit less. If I could I would put money in a Cayman R though. 996 c4s is always a dream looking car for me, but sometimes I know it’s best left a dream for some cars Someone mentioned the mx5 above. If they had a decent engine, wow what a motor it could have been in all generations. Good value top down motoring I have a Dc5 also and a few other Hondas as I am a big fan, to throw you a curve ball, the best car I own and I would go so far as saying ever owned is a Lotus Elise S1 that I have fitted a K24 Honda into with a supercharger, it never fails to stick a smile on my face, they are out there from £20k with a K20 in or convert a standard car awesome package and have the beauty or going up in value nothing this side of a Caterham gives me anything like the driver engagement I get when I drive it.

I like the curve ball I’ve driven a vx200 so similar to the Elise. I just felt too vulnerable in it on the normal roads Also a bit appreciation for Lotus, as I’ll be selling the Evora NA I have due to personal circumstances and this is me thinking still having a fun car for those days I get time

celica88 said: I like the curve ball I’ve driven a vx200 so similar to the Elise. I just felt too vulnerable in it on the normal roads Also a bit appreciation for Lotus, as I’ll be selling the Evora NA I have due to personal circumstances and this is me thinking still having a fun car for those days I get time I had a Vx220 and as much as I tried to like it I just couldn't. I come from a history of motorbikes and Caterhams so the Elise feels slightly safer in comparison . This is a little video of the S1 doing a launch goes like to give you an idea. https://youtube.com/shorts/X8BCwPtzICA?feature=sha...

What about the 2.9 litre 987.2?

I've had several of each. Very different cars. S2000. I've owned one new and several used. The S2000 needs to be driven with effort - thrashed even - to get the best out of it. If you let someone unused to them drive you will find they change up at 6000rpm, which is where the fun starts. Many will struggle when you tell them to hold it to 9000rpm because it's so unfamilar. Bike owners tend to get it. The gearbox is sublime. They are sensitive to tyres, tyre pressures and geometry and will catch out hamfisted drivers. Age has shown that they have a few quite serious faults - corrosion and sized geometry bolts being the main ones. Of greater concern is engine longevity because spare engines are rare and expensive and rebuilding is not easy. Over revs can set up a potential failure and there are no warning signs. The lack of torque thing means you don't know how to drive it to get the best out of it. It will never be a low down slugger and it's unreasonable to criticise the car for it. If you need sudden acceleration then change down two gears, don't floor it in sixth. The corrosion, seized bolts and concerns over engine longevity mean I'm not interested in another one. I think they're overpriced now, even in the context of the current market. Boxster S. I have several 986 Boxster S models. I think they're massively undervalued and will never be cheaper. I have tried the 2.5 and 2.7 and wouldn't have one over the S model. Unlike the S2000 the larger capacity means they will perform better if you are lazy with your changes. The handling and steering are much better than the S2000. The gearbox is more than adequate and the engine is a peach. I've noticed that it's quite rare to find big bills in the folder for the Honda but fairly common with used 986 Boxsters but they may be a reflection on Porsche's ability to rinse customers than an indicator of reliability. The bearing scare story interests me. Sudden catastrophic failure is rare and warning signs exist. If you want to do it, then combine it with a clutch change. I have never seen a rusty shell on a 986 unless accident repaired but many of the bolts and fixings do corrode badly. Routine servicing isn't as hard as you would think with all routine items accessible with the roof in service position. Overall, its just a better car all round. It was more expensive new so maybe it should be. I'm just offering an opinion on the choice facing the OP. I'm no Porsche fan boy. I also own an RX7 and 350Z.

@unreal Totally agree to those points hence looking at 986 s Think they’ve aged nicely @johnnymac I feel the 2.9 will be too half hearted. Also from a price point, I feel I want more If it was low teens, then sure why not. This is all theoretical and got to pass the other half. I keep coming back to looking at cayman, 996, 997 albeit the .1 all scare me. Whilst I’ve had motors thinking they were a ticking time bomb, ie 4.2 v8 s4 cabriolet, the engine known rattle was always scary. I think some prices will come back down as the market might get flooded over the 18 months with rising cost and day to day costs; so will look out. I’m just not that clued up on the 986, so will enjoy doing some research and reading

JohnnyMac said: What about the 2.9 litre 987.2? I just acquired one after carefully ( I think ? ) studying the boxster mkt . It’s got a 9A1 motor , the new version of F6 without the dreaded IMS bearing , being designed out . A closed deck cooling .The previous motor on the 996 - 911 s and 986 , 987.1 had Toyota collaborated designed open deck water flow .Along with arguably maxed out oil scavenging in the heads = possibly overheating in certain circumstances = bore scoring . The newer 2.9 has quad oil pick ups in the heads to aid cooling . They changed the cylinder lining s too in 2009 upwards with the new motor . The difference between the 2.9 and 3.4 is the latter uses DFi while the 2.9 used simple and more reliable port injection. Exhaust bolts issues were sorted too from 2009 up with the 9A1 . Arguably a improvement in the cabin FWIW . it’s a peach of a motor the base 2.9 mated to the 6 speed box .The 987.2 s both share the same big brakes the base and S .Previous S s had bigger brakes as well as a bored out block .The 987.2 , 2.9 base is as quick as the previous 986 “ S” FWIW ? In fact the current 911 I believe shares this “ base “ block 2.9 with twin turbos strapped on . The later 3.4 , 3.8 and indeed 4.0 are all bored out Vs of this “ base “ 2.9 “ As far a driving I am coming from a F360 M , Testarossa, Renault spider , 911 Carrara 3.2 . 968Club sport - the full fat vs The MID Engine layout , chassis balance trumps all above . As far a power ….it’s 255hp performance envelope match’s my skill set ….if I can add a caveat = on todays congested speed camera , pot holed roads . It’s all about the involvement not necessary the written down stats . Gave up chasing stats years ago . Also hood down is rather nice as well with a boxster. 987.2 s 2.9 s start around £15 K .They can take high miles . Edited by Fiammetta on Monday 2nd May 09:53 Edited by Fiammetta on Monday 2nd May 09:58

Fiammetta said: I just acquired one after carefully ( I think ? ) studying the boxster mkt . It’s got a 9A1 motor , the new version of F6 without the dreaded IMS bearing , being designed out . A closed deck cooling .The previous motor on the 996 - 911 s and 986 , 987.1 had Toyota collaborated designed open deck water flow .Along with arguably maxed out oil scavenging in the heads = possibly overheating in certain circumstances = bore scoring . The newer 2.9 has quad oil pick ups in the heads to aid cooling . They changed the cylinder lining s too in 2009 upwards with the new motor . The difference between the 2.9 and 3.4 is the latter uses DFi while the 2.9 used simple and more reliable port injection. Exhaust bolts issues were sorted too from 2009 up with the 9A1 . Arguably a improvement in the cabin FWIW . it’s a peach of a motor the base 2.9 mated to the 6 speed box .The 987.2 s both share the same big brakes the base and S .Previous S s had bigger brakes as well as a bored out block .The 987.2 , 2.9 base is as quick as the previous 986 “ S” FWIW ? In fact the current 911 I believe shares this “ base “ block 2.9 with twin turbos strapped on . The later 3.4 , 3.8 and indeed 4.0 are all bored out Vs of this “ base “ 2.9 “ As far a driving I am coming from a F360 M , Testarossa, Renault spider , 911 Carrara 3.2 . 968Club sport - the full fat vs The MID Engine layout , chassis balance trumps all above . As far a power ….it’s 255hp performance envelope match’s my skill set ….if I can add a caveat = on todays congested speed camera , pot holed roads . It’s all about the involvement not necessary the written down stats . Gave up chasing stats years ago . Also hood down is rather nice as well with a boxster. 987.2 s 2.9 s start around £15 K .They can take high miles . Edited by Fiammetta on Monday 2nd May 09:53 Edited by Fiammetta on Monday 2nd May 09:58 Doh! Comments like these I value and make me look back at 2.9’s again lol

Ok delving deeper . look @ this . The guy knows his onions and note the comments . I did consider the 981 s after all newer but not necessarily better , it’s larger and the electric PAS killed it .Also don’t need nannies, or the less is more from a involvement pov . Ok it’s Spiders but the similarities transfer into the cooking modals . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlrrM_n_nHk

celica88 said: @unreal Totally agree to those points hence looking at 986 s Think they’ve aged nicely @johnnymac I feel the 2.9 will be too half hearted. Also from a price point, I feel I want more If it was low teens, then sure why not. This is all theoretical and got to pass the other half. I keep coming back to looking at cayman, 996, 997 albeit the .1 all scare me. Whilst I’ve had motors thinking they were a ticking time bomb, ie 4.2 v8 s4 cabriolet, the engine known rattle was always scary. I think some prices will come back down as the market might get flooded over the 18 months with rising cost and day to day costs; so will look out. I’m just not that clued up on the 986, so will enjoy doing some research and reading No need to go into our personal details online but a large part of any buying decision that I make is based on the potential downside if I've bought a bad car. I'd suggest that's limited to 50% of the cost of the car with something like a £7K Boxster S and there are plenty of cars to choose from to minimise that risk. Where I'd disagree with you is whether 986 S prices will come down. I just cannot see it. More expensive fashion cars perhaps, but the 986 Porsches are about as low they will ever go. I'd be interested to hear anyone's view on what else you could buy offering the same experience and performance for £5K-£7K.

Wasn’t clear, I meant the more expensive models of the 987 , 981 I agree 986 prices will hover now and good ones will slowly creep upwards

Like previous posters, i'd had both (1 x S2000, 1 x 986 2.7, 2 x 986S, 3 x 987.2). I've also had 2 x JDM 2.2 Preludes and an EP3. It took me a few weeks to gel with the S2000. The 2.2 Prelude I had just beforehand had a lot more off-cam grunt, and even in VTEC the S2000 didn't seem to pull very hard because the crossover was less 'on/off' than the older H22 engine. Eventually, when it got to summer and I really dialed in to the S2000's characteristics, the penny dropped with me. It's a very rare car in that if you went on a 30 mile hard drive, it would just get better and better with each passing mile. It just took me a while to get used to (and comfortable with) just leaving it in 3rd or 4th when i'd usually be in 5th or 6th. I think most of us are quite mechanically-sympathetic, but that's at odds with how Honda engineered the car to be. Mine had a couple of subtle suspension mods, but even then it tried to spit me off the road a few times in circumstances a Boxster wouldn't even blink at. A couple of years later, I tried my first 986S and within about a mile realised why it won the group tests back in the days that the two were new model rivals. The variocam engine has its own character which I don't think is better nor worse than the K20, it has a lot more shove, a better sound profile more of the rev range even if it doesn't scream at the top like the Honda. The 2.7 is also a terrific road car and in some ways more similar to the S2000. The long gearing means you can do a lot of journeys predominately in 3rd gear without doing daft speeds, and it's a lovely motor when wound up. I personally think the 987.2S DFI is the least-characterful engine of the bunch, but it really does the numbers - particularly low range torque - and the overall package makes for a pretty serious machine. I have one at present and despite being a serial car changer, I just can't think of a better convertible for £20k.

I owned an S2000 for a few years and have driven a Boxster, owned a 911 for 3yrs. The S2000 has the best gear change of any car I’ve driven and the engine is really exciting when driven at ten tenths. However the steering is completely devoid of feedback and it’s not particularly great on roads with standing water. It’s actually a bit deadly as the LSD like to lock when you hit a deep puddle. Chassis wise there is no contest, the feedback and poise on the Boxster is miles better.

I may be looking for a cheap car for the summer in which to do a few trackdays. Quite keen on a convertible. I can't compute why this car is such a huge discount compared to an S2000 (or Boxster) of similar era? https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13322836 Spec on paper looks great

breakfan said: I may be looking for a cheap car for the summer in which to do a few trackdays. Quite keen on a convertible. I can't compute why this car is such a huge discount compared to an S2000 (or Boxster) of similar era? https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13322836 Spec on paper looks great I think it's a terrific little thing but it's still a 21 year old base motor that would normally be worth about £4k. So in effect you're paying £6k on top for £10k's worth of well-used modifications. I don't think it's a bargain but it does look a bucket load of fun. Do these things rust?

JohnnyMac said: What about the 2.9 litre 987.2? A great point. For me they're the sweet spot in terms of value.

nickfrog said: A great point. For me they're the sweet spot in terms of value. What’s a fair value , budget for one in your mind?

KPB1973 said: I think it's a terrific little thing but it's still a 21 year old base motor that would normally be worth about £4k. So in effect you're paying £6k on top for £10k's worth of well-used modifications. I don't think it's a bargain but it does look a bucket load of fun. Do these things rust? oh yes sills and arches fall off them. When I sold my 981 Spyder to fund a house move back in 2016 I bought a 2011 MX5 to get me about in and I drove that harder and had more fun in it than I ever did in the Porsche just shame they dont look and sound as good as they drive.

breakfan said: I may be looking for a cheap car for the summer in which to do a few trackdays. Quite keen on a convertible. I can't compute why this car is such a huge discount compared to an S2000 (or Boxster) of similar era? https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13322836 Spec on paper looks great Not sure how cheap is cheap and how dedicated to track days you are, I've got an S2000 track car advertised on this site (12k). It's great fun. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13261581

breakfan said: I may be looking for a cheap car for the summer in which to do a few trackdays. Quite keen on a convertible. I can't compute why this car is such a huge discount compared to an S2000 (or Boxster) of similar era? https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13322836 Spec on paper looks great Image. However unfair, they're not seen as desirable as either of the cars you mention. A bit like the Z3, however good the car, a sizeable part of the population regard it as a bit girly.