Well, that didn't go to plan, 981 engine failed? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

After being almost idle for 2 years due to Covid I decided to pop over to Germany last weekend in my 981 GTS. I've owned the car for almost four years and have done about 13k miles, serviced regularly and never had any issues. Coming back after a very spirited drive on a quiet Autobahn I started to hear a faint ticking noise. Something in a tyre, leaf stuck in the fan? Hmm, noise not there when coasting in neutral but is when revving. I pulled into a small town, only to hear the noise getting steadily louder. It's now a loud knocking noise, changes frequency with revs, this isn't sounding good. Called Porsche Assistance, ADAC arrive - the verdict - something mechanical, take it to Porsche Cologne. Next day, two mechanics listen, verdict - maybe bearing damage or a broken piston !!!! So, I returned home via Eurostar - still waiting for the verdict. Could this be a failure of the reliable 981 engine at 29k miles?. I've searched the web and they seem few and far between.

Had the car been idle for 2 years?

bosshog said: Had the car been idle for 2 years? Not idle, it had been driven every few weeks - but maybe only a few thousand miles in two years. I'm also quite careful about letting the engine warm up before using high revs and generally keep an eye on temps when driving. Edited by cay on Wednesday 4th May 15:24

Even the world's most reliable engines sometimes let go. If you called PA I am assuming under warranty... If so, phew!

Discombobulate said: Even the world's most reliable engines sometimes let go. If you called PA I am assuming under warranty... If so, phew! Yep, fingers crossed! Just waiting to hear from Cologne, and who knows how long it will take to get parts and fix.

That doesn't sound at all good, hopefully it will have a decent ending somehow. Do you have OPC extended warranty and Porsche assist, I assume yes from what you have posted. Can I ask how they are responding to your issues, I have always wondered how they react to this sort of situation and your circumstances are pretty much as bad as it gets as far as breakdowns go? Assuming all was well with the car I think statistically your engine failure seems very unusual.

Just heard back from Porsche Koln, they have found damage to cylinder 4 - no details of what exactly yet. And the good news, Porsche has authorised an engine replacement. Car should be ready next week. No questions asked. I am feeling very, very, happy that I have warranty now. Porsche assist also paid ( or at least said they will - waiting for claim to go through ) for me to return to UK, and will pay for me to go back to collect car. I dread to think what the total cost will be. Quite funny that I spent many years worrying about the engine in my 987.1, which never had an issue to 80k miles when I sold it. Now the new unbreakable 981 engine has let go, funny how things go.

Silver lining you now get a nice new engine instead of rebuild with 2 year warranty! When I got a new engine it came with all the ancillaries ie alternator, water pump etc

GT4P said: Silver lining you now get a nice new engine instead of rebuild with 2 year warranty! When I got a new engine it came with all the ancillaries ie alternator, water pump etc Good point, I assume new - or do they use refurbished?

Also use it more they don’t like sitting around and if you do leave it take it out often and for more than a few miles to get the engine well and truly lubricated

cay said: Just heard back from Porsche Koln, they have found damage to cylinder 4 - no details of what exactly yet. And the good news, Porsche has authorised an engine replacement. Car should be ready next week. No questions asked. I am feeling very, very, happy that I have warranty now. Porsche assist also paid ( or at least said they will - waiting for claim to go through ) for me to return to UK, and will pay for me to go back to collect car. I dread to think what the total cost will be. Quite funny that I spent many years worrying about the engine in my 987.1, which never had an issue to 80k miles when I sold it. Now the new unbreakable 981 engine has let go, funny how things go. That is as good as it gets, delighted for you. I would be very interested to know what the cause was if you ever find out and how the story ends.

Great outcome and seemingly service . Which engine is it in your car ? The CC and Hp ?

Fiammetta said: Great outcome and seemingly service . Which engine is it in your car ? The CC and Hp ? 981 GTS so 3.4 and 340hp I believe.

...and the year? Great outcome. Well done Porsche... well, the insurers. Allianz?

GT4P said: Also use it more they don’t like sitting around and if you do leave it take it out often and for more than a few miles to get the engine well and truly lubricated I think this is an internet myth

High pressure injectors in todays DFI motors are susceptible to poor fuel and if left standing corrosion from damp inlet air seeping in from a open valve . The cannuli are so tiny they soon block or crap sticks them open and the cylinders are hosed with fuel = extreme heat = holed piston. I would say modern DFI s don’t like standing or crap fuel . All this E 10 or what ever is not helping longevity of the injectors tips either .Holds water in it more than old fashioned unleaded .Water vaporisation = excess heat source as well = tip damage. How many tank fulls did you go through in lockdown? Damage done then ?

I think around 5k miles in two years, so some use, and tended to be longer trips or drives for fun. I've always used Shell or Esso super which should be lower Ethanol. Who knows what happened. When I purchased the car the brake discs had small cracks, also later discovered the pad wear sensors were disconnected ( Porsche didn't notice for two years ! ). Maybe it had a track life before I got it? Did see one article about the fuel injectors leaking, causing excess fuelling which washes the oil from the cylinders. It was a very loud noise where previously the engine was quiet, does bore scoring really happen that quickly?

https://jzmporsche.com/news/gen-2-bore-scoring-smo... And a Rennlist “all nighter” thread (62 pages) in the topic here : https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1120276-997-... The DFi engine reliability is a quantum leap forward over the M96/97 units, but it’s prone to issues, as are all DFi engines. LSPi explained here : https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017/10/solving-g...

BertBert said: GT4P said: Also use it more they don’t like sitting around and if you do leave it take it out often and for more than a few miles to get the engine well and truly lubricated I think this is an internet myth I agree Total rubbish How can you define the ideal usage? If you leave a car undriven for say 2 days then are all the lubricants drained? So then does this mean you need to drive your car without ever leaving it for 2 days? A modern vehicle is designed to cope with periods of inactivity otherwise what would happen, there would be a lot of claims for failed engines.

Blimey, after a few years of not having a porsche, me planning to buy a standard 981 S, this unfortunate thread totally left me uninspired. I see a few engine issue on porsche forums here again, shame really seeing on special units like GTS or GT3.

There will always be failures in anything that is manufactured. Failures in the way that it is manufactured. Failures in the way that it is used. And failures that people worry about that will never happen. When we were a national service centre my engineers believed that the product which a "father" company manufactured and we serviced, was unreliable. When we compared the value of the product that we were seeing for repair against the value of the product in use in the market, we were seeing an item (in professional hard use) on average once every nine years. Clearly not unreliable ... but it didn't stop the perception amongst those who saw nothing but the repairs which kept them employed ! So we had to rationalise our view. The DFI engines have been manufactured since 2009 ... 13 years. Yes there will be some repairs caused by the limitations of DFI. But my read is that cars that are regularly used as intended (on track?) are less likely to see characteristic DFI issues which can in any event be repaired. Contrast this to the M96/M97 issues, and there are many reasons to be cheerful. As an aside, the Mezger engines also suffered front and rear main seal issues if not used ... and it has been suggested to me that a car that does 500miles or more per annum is likely to be more reliable than a car that does zero miles ... because ALL seals require lubrication at some level. ??

ooid said: Blimey, after a few years of not having a porsche, me planning to buy a standard 981 S, this unfortunate thread totally left me uninspired. I see a few engine issue on porsche forums here again, shame really seeing on special units like GTS or GT3. Good to hear there have never been any mechanical failures on any Golf or Lexus. Reading more broadly than a single thread, the 981 seems fairly reliable.

ATM said: BertBert said: GT4P said: Also use it more they don’t like sitting around and if you do leave it take it out often and for more than a few miles to get the engine well and truly lubricated I think this is an internet myth I agree Total rubbish How can you define the ideal usage? If you leave a car undriven for say 2 days then are all the lubricants drained? So then does this mean you need to drive your car without ever leaving it for 2 days? A modern vehicle is designed to cope with periods of inactivity otherwise what would happen, there would be a lot of claims for failed engines. Well put it this way I much prefer to buy a car that has done 10k miles over 3 years as opposed to a garage queen that has done 1k. Any car needs to be used and after 40 years of driving the most reliable cars I have owned have been used every day! My 986s failed at 13k it was a garage queen and left for long periods, I firmly believe if it was used every day it would not have prematurely failed.

Also that car was properly warmed etc before use taken for predominately long journeys and correctly run in!

ChrisW. said: As an aside, the Mezger engines also suffered front and rear main seal issues if not used ... and it has been suggested to me that a car that does 500miles or more per annum is likely to be more reliable than a car that does zero miles ... because ALL seals require lubrication at some level. ?? But what does 500 miles mean - it is too arbitrary. It could mean one trip of 10 miles per week. Or it could mean 1 trip per month of 40. Or it could mean a single run of 500 miles annually. I do agree that seals like some lubrication - it would be hard to argue against this. But can a seal wet with oil rally start to deteriorate after say 12 months of not seeing any fresh oil splashing around? I honestly dont know the answer. I think it might still feel oily to the touch. I know modern oils have additives to help the rubber seals. My BMW has a problem with tired seals on the valve stems. This results in some oil getting past them and into the engine which then burns it off. Normally you would not know but if you catch it with a longer idle when it is nice and hot then it smokes a bit from the exhaust. Apparently on the BMW engines these go hard and brittle over time - so nothing to do with low usage but probably the opposite. This can be prevented with additives and some oils are now marketed for older cars with extra additives in them. But once the seals themselves have started to go off then no amount of additives or chemicals will save them. So this isn't the same as discussed from low usage, this is just a rubbish type of rubber used which perishes but it can be prevented from perishing with extra additives in the oil. Some internet warriors - is that Me - believe this problem is due to the extended oil change intervals going from 12 months to 24. So I guess my point is if you have a fear about rubber seals - assuming the seals mentioned are rubber - then you could try some of these additives to keep them ship shape. Do these work - I have no idea. My BMW still smokes more than Deirdre Barlow.... This is the first snake oil I tried And then later I found some which Millers produce and Millers seem to have a good reputation so does this make it any less snake oil

Very useful ... I always had in mind journeys of around 50 miles (or more) ... the 500 miles is a starting figure that makes some sense based on 50 miles trips ! Dampers etc also have seals and these are lubricated in use. I don't think most seals are rubber anymore ... but ?? A good Classic fuel additive is also supposed to avoid fuel gelling and lacquering ... as an over-winterer ...

randlemarcus said: Reading more broadly than a single thread, the 981 seems fairly reliable. I geniunely hope that’s the case. You never see/hear such major engine issues on other sport cars though such as F-Type, Evora, Z4 or SLK.

Agreed, it's worth mentioning that the extended warranties are all insurance policies. The real risk is less insurance costs and commissions, and profit !

Just to let everyone know how this ended ( well so far ! ). I collected my car on Saturday, seems to be running fine after a 450 mile trip home from Cologne. From the invoice looks like they fitted a replacement block with pistons, camchain, oil pump, a/c compressor included. Zero cost to me so I'm pretty happy. Not happy it failed and had to be replaced but such is life. I think I treated the car fairly well ( oil changes, warming up etc ), but also do drive it hard when given the chance. I also don't know the history before I purchased it which may have contributed to the issue. At least it gives some confidence that Porsche will stand behind the cars with warranty up to 15 years - albeit with restrictions on modification, servicing etc.

Plenty of buyers threads whereby sensible advice nowadays is avoid chrono cars and get them checked for over revs . You said ^^^ it needed fresh disks early as there were spider cracking in the vent holes ? That’s a clue of tracking too . How much track time effects reliability is a how longs a piece of string and where folks sit ,which side of the track culture of let’s face it street cars they sit . As an aside I ran a Ferrari 360 F1 for 10 yrs .FFSH .It had 18 K on it when I became the 2 nd owner .3 rd car so had to work hard with two toddlers to find reasons to use it . Annual milage was low varied from 800 to 1500 Pa between mots . The dealers down load data with telematics to Marenello. One day at its annual at the franchised dealer who knew it from new ( 12 yrs old by now ) on 28 K I asked about the clutch life .Tinterneting as one does threw up horror stories, of fried clutches £3 K inc F wheel etc etc . Lambos destroying clutches after 5 launch control set off s etc = the usual PH crap one reads etc l The Ferrari service guy in his office got it up on the screen and said “ you look after it “ “ Don’t you bother with the 5000 to 9000 rev range “:? They could see how much time and what revs in each gear and the T+P s , everything like the guys on the pit walls at F1 .It’s all stored and downloaded every time the car hits a franchised Ferrari dealer for service .Everything time stamped fir day dot . It’s 37 % worn the clutch BTW . So it’s good for another 10 yrs at the way you drive it . I said well I comes out for a 20-30 miler Sunday drive in traffic camered roads, busy traffic congested dual carriageway s until it’s up to correct T+ P s then it garaged away again . On the forecourts prepped up fresh booted they all look the same .Pity you can’t see what the dealers the franchise dealers can find out running the VIN on there system . Always be suspicious of a nearly new one ( maybe Porsche inc ) that’s dropped out of the dealer network.There’s a reason .Sure HPI clear .I think they run the VIN or with Porsche plug a reader in and they can see what rev range etc it’s been operated in . Wether in todays stock shortage market they ( Porsche and Ferrari ) have lowered there acceptance criteria to what they put on sale at there premises is another question . They might take in a “ trashed /abused “ one from a regular customer but then offload it into the trade .That’s my point . Edited by Fiammetta on Monday 16th May 17:22

cay said: At least it gives some confidence that Porsche will stand behind the cars with warranty up to 15 years - albeit with restrictions on modification, servicing etc. To be fair to Porsche given that their cars are probably driven hard it is not unreasonable for them to want them to be maintained to the spec and standard intended. Presumably you have done just that and it has paid off. A strong case for the pro OPC warranty people, glad it all ended well for you, enjoy your refreshed back up to spec engine.

ooid said: randlemarcus said: Reading more broadly than a single thread, the 981 seems fairly reliable. I geniunely hope that’s the case. You never see/hear such major engine issues on other sport cars though such as F-Type, Evora, Z4 or SLK. If I worried about breakdowns and failures… I wouldn’t buy anything. I’ve read about TVs with dead pixels, washing machines DOA etc. neither have happened to me. I bought my previous 981 CS PDK with 45k miles, sold recently at 82k. My only worry was a possible PDK issue/failure. I had the extended warranty but in 6yrs of ownership no engine or PDK problems. No matter how good or well engineered a product is, there will always be someone who suffers a failure. I worry more now about cup 2’s in the rain than my GT4 engine going t!ts up. Edited by HighwayStar on Tuesday 17th May 11:38