RE: AJLintern's Porsche 944 S2 - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

This is indeed a lovely car. I know Andy was getting it properly sorted, so some of the running expenses are unlikely to be repeated next year. Having said that, anyone buying a car like this should probably budget something to fix any outstanding problems.

I have almost exactly the same car as Andy I can highly recommend them, but as always you have to be careful what you buy. I had a "specialist" do an inspection on mine before I bought it and I still had some horrendous bills in the first year. The garage in question did the inspection for free on the premise that they did the 96k service that it was due, the service included all the belts and rollers which is expensive in itself but mine also need a new clutch. The bill was huge but I got the car for the right money so I figured it was worth it. Shortly after I got speaking to Barry Hart from Hartech whilst at the Porsche Club event in Lancs and he convinced me that I should get the cam chain tensioner assembly checked. I was certain it was OK as I had specifically asked for this to be check at the inspection, but nagging doubts convinced me to re-check it. Needless to say the tensioner pad was knackered and the cam sprockets were undersize, so I needed 2 new cams. Cue horrendous bill no.2. I've had the car for 3years now and the second 2years have been quite cheap, I change the oil every 3000miles and it goes to Hartech once a year for a service ( £230 ) so when you average it out it's not to bad. Tyres last around 7000miles on the rear and 11000miles on the front, and even when driven hard it will still do around 22-23mpg. Things to look out for:- 1. Cam chain tensioner assembly 2. Brakes can need a lot of TLC. See 911 & Porsche world last month 3. Gearbox pinion bearings , listern for whining. 4. Water pump at around 90-100K Apart from tha they are bullet proof and the handling is SUPERB. Andy P.S. I also recommend the AMD re-chip. More power, hardly noticable, but vastly improved throttle responce and it does BETTER MPG. P.P.S. Hartech are highly recommended, mine going in on Saturday for it's annual service, I'll let you know how it goes. www.hartech.u-net.com/

Thanks for the comments chaps No I haven't spent £4k on maintenance, I think it adds all the tax and insurance together to get that figure! The main expense was the cam chain work but it's really worth doing for the peace of mind. The other thing was a knackered handbrake which caused an intermittent heavy juddering - basically required a completely new system including rear discs. I was lucky to find the car - it was the first one I looked at. I bought it from a private ad on PH from a nice chap (also called Andy!) It had a full service history and had been looked after well and even had brand new tyres! The colour was certainly brighter than I'd expected, but it does look great on the car. I really am very pleased with it - my pride and joy - recommend one to anyone! AndyS2 - sounds like you had fun in that 9M supercharged 944 - very tempting, isn't it

My S has cost about £1500 a year to run over the last 3 years, but it has done a fair few miles so parts will wear out. I can second the recommendation for Hartech. Top people.

I picked my car up from Hartech on Saturday after is annual service. Price was £289, this is £230 for the service and the following extra jobs:- 1. Fix a slight coolant leak on radiator hose 2. Replace temp sender due to ECU logging an error code on it. I was supplied with a full written report with all the other things that they found, from which I can tell they have been over the car with a fine tooth comb e.g. they found that one of the bolts on the door arrestor was stripped, and that the interior light only works from the drivers side door!! Apart from that the car is good for another 12months/12000 miles. Andy

Glad to hear it! How do you find out about the faulty temp sender? My gauge appears to read low, though from what I've been told the actual temperature is normal. The gauge hardly seems to get above the first line, though the heater works ok. I have to send the car in to check out a funny rattling noise from the engine

There are two temperature sender son the engine, one for the DME and one for the gauge, they work independently of each other. The later S2's are equipped with OBD (on board diagnostics) that can be read using the Bosch "Hammer", hence the fault being logged by the OBD, read during the service and the offending sender duly changed, 10/10 for Barry & the team.

Colin is right, the fault was with the sender for the ECU, apparently it was not sending the correct signal to the ECU. I must admit I hadn't noticed any problems with how it was running but it did feel better after the service, then again it always does, how much of this is phsycological(?) and how much is down to actual changes is hard to tell. I'm just happy that I can tell a difference. I did a 200miles drive to Litchfield and back yesterday, I went down the motorway as I was late but I came back up the A515 to Ashbourne, cut across a B road to Matlock, went up the Via gellia to Bakewell, out of Bakewell on the 13 bends and onto Baslow and back to Sheffield. It's on roads like these that I remember why I don't want to sell this car, it was absolutley PERFECT, and despite me wanting to modify it ( Supercharger , QTB convertion etc etc ) there was not a single time when I actually needed more power, there was nothing I coulden't overtake and it gets to 120mph quick enough to get you into trouble on public roads. Not that i was doing 120mph, just what I've been told....Officer Anybody thinking of getting a 944S2 should definatly go for it. Andy Andy

Too right Andy They really inspire confidence and are a joy to drive - performance car bargain of the century The power is certainly adequate (as Bentley would put it) and very smooth, but I'm sure the car would just get even better with more. I'm aiming for 300bhp/300lbs.ft if possible I bought a couple of books from Amazon today: - Original Porsche 924/944/968 by Peter Morgan - Porsche 924/944/968 A Collectors Guide by Michael Cotton You can save a few pennies if you buy them together Lots of interesting reading

Don't take Morgan's words with a grain of salt though, there are some stupid mistakes in it such as "the 1989 S2 and the Turbo S had the same brakes, derived from these of the 928 S4" and "the 944 turbo cabriolet had the same 16 valve engine as the coupé" >> Edited by Thom on Tuesday 15th April 09:47

I do not think I could have put it a better way than this.

Can I just quietly beg to differ? The 9m commandment clearly states: "Thou shalt not accept all that is given by the maker, as it is only in the eyes of the maker that you have sufficient power to control. For those who seek more, ye should choose the other way forward offered by the true creators of power, for they alone offer the most gratisfying journey." I rest my case.

Just because I don't need it doesn't mean I don't want it!! Colin , How is the QTB conversion going? you've not posted recently and I thought the car should have been on the dyno by now. Andy

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He's incorrigible isnt he

So what sort of performance do you think would be possible with 300bhp? Has anyone reached maximum speed in their car? I thought it was set up to reach 150ish mph on the redline, in which case a higher ratio final drive would be required to go faster. So maybe 0-60 in 5 seconds and top speed of 170ish? I know 0-60 means nothing in normal driving and 50-70 a much more useful indication of performance - I'm always very impressed by the 3rd gear accelaration when overtaking

Andy I have clocked that 3100 rpm in 5th is 80 mph in an S2 so theoretically with a red line at 6400 the gear ratio should be good for 165 mph I've seen 150mph on my speedo (which was probably 140) but of course that was in Germany as it is not allowed here It's the acceleration and midrange on track that I would be looking for with a 9M conversion, but the top speed is always nice in the bar room bragging stakes. B.T.W your history page has inspired me to start posting some of mine, makes for scary reading when you add it all up

I saw 272 kph on mine (169 mph) on the German Autobahn between Paris and Le Mans (see this pic taken in another car; not even in the red line yet)

Andrew currently your S2 is a fine example of the marque.The idea of 300bhp is gonna cost you quite a bit,not only in terms of application cost,extra insurance and no benefit maybe a deficit if ever re-sale is a consideration. Would it not be easier to buy a 944 Turbo SE,for the cost of a good night out you could get the ECU re mapped to nigh on 300bhp.I would have thought insurance wouldn't be that much more and if you want to sell,just put the old chip back in/ Is this a stupid idea?

2.5 turbo engines chipped to 300 bhp are prone to head gasket failures if the prep does not include an "stronger" head gasket being fitted (e.g. Cup head gasket). >> Edited by Thom on Wednesday 16th April 17:25

fair enough,but a HG is no big deal or likely to break the bank....I know they can get this kind of bhp as I have seen them performing very,very well on UK track days.

I agree with what you're saying CS, and I want to keep my car basically original. Having said that I doubt it's that difficult to put back the original manifold and resale value isn't much of an issue for me as I can't see myself selling the car for a long time. I chose the S2 because I prefer larger capacity normally aspirated engines with even power and torque. The 2.5 turbo engine is already putting out 250bhp so putting it upto 300+ though easily done would, I feel, be cheating a bit - anyone can turn the boost up to get silly outputs but to the detriment of drivability. If the new manifold and any tuning were to affect the smoothness of the power delivery or reliability then I would think again, but I suspect if anything the engine will be more reliable through greater efficiency and smoother flow causing less wear of components.

I hear you Andrew.it sounds like you have given it a lot of thought,it is always good to have a plan.I get the feeling that you have the bit between your teeth and will see it through. Good luck!

I have a 250 Turbo and an S2. I bought the Turbo to replace the S2 because it is so easily tuned to 300 bhp (and beyond) plus it already has beefier brakes and suspension (M030 option) and I had become hooked on trackdays. The Turbo is superb on track but even with a shimmed wastegate and a boost enhancer it is still sooo laggy and does not compare to the crispness of the S2 engine. On the road the S2 is much much the nicer car to drive, but at the track the Turbo is ultimateley quicker. My wife now won't let me sell the S2 she hates the Turbo My plan when buying the Turbo is to replace the wastegate with a dual port design which reduces the lag infinitley and then to have it remapped properly paying attention to the fueling (not just upping the boost). Now that the Supercharger is a realistic option I have been placed into a huge dilemna, I would love the smooth power delivery of a supercharged 3 litre. Selling the Turbo to finance this has been praying on my mind, and it would clear up my driveway, but ultimately it does need to be reliable - I do 20,000 miles a year. Decisions, decisions

Paul, from what I've read the supercharger is a low pressure system which basically reduces the resistance of the intake system to nothing - this is what gives the high bhp/litre. I'm sure this would be more reliable than any turbo system. I would certainly go for this if I could convince myself to spend that sort of money, though I'm quite happy to settle for 300bhp for less than £3k I wonder what the quad throttle manifold with supercharger would develop...

Nice car andy, In fact, with the exception of baltic blue narrowly preferred to cobalt, exactly the car i'm looking to buy this summer. Any words of warning or things to look for? Is that maintenance figure of nearly 4k typical? if it is i surrender now! kind regards, Mike