nice board!

wow, so many message boards...so little time

Ok so this is a member board for all of us to share our experiences and the worker bees that make our cars more fun or sell us our drugs right? that being said, this has to be of attraction to many of us. I for one have had the GIAC stage 2 with the race on 100 and the ipd plenum and the EP and have noticed what many of u guys have up top and down low. .... Now comes COBB.... its not like its THAT costly a difference what 2K or so to run both programs.... for the other one and then to pay the authorized GIAC shop to reflash if one wants the giac back...?seems like a few of us give that a try with the BIG boy bolt ons....should be interesting.. i for one have an opportunity to do it all again...but 80 real TQ and 40-50 more HP and look at the graph....im not very technical but this the FORUM to discuss this in , right? not about stepping on toes and hurting peoples feelings very interested in all the real world results and those that have run both tunes...seems the hardware is somewhat similar when we stick to the proven bolt on and vendors ...

Yeah, TX, but you're going to want to spend most of your time on this one!

that's comparing apples and oranges. you can't compare 2 different types of dynos with different cars at different times, etc. the mustang dyno and dynojet are completely different. we're not going to know how they really compare until people get out there with these setups and show some slips.

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Quote: Agreed and we should have some of those soon enough. I already have slips and data from COTA with my FVD setup and I am getting a Cobb Tune in the next week or so and will go get some slips with that setup. I also plan to use the Cobb tune at my next track event at COTA on Nov. 1. Definitely where the rubber meets the road is how we judge the tunes and the packages. For me, this is fun, I like tuning and testing with no axe to grind. I would have tried GIAC first but there is no installer in Austin so I went with FVD and haven't been unhappy. However, when I saw Cobb who is located here in Austin and has several partners here was coming out with the AP, I began to salivate. Now I am looking forward to some results on my car.

After seen what GIAC can offer like a tune tool I decide to stick with COBB, I saw with my own eyes the R&D of the 997.2 OTS develop in my car... Then on one of my friends 991 Turbo S. There is no tune that offer what COBB do... Just been able to do custom tune in a numerous COBB dealers, putting back the stock tune in minutes and sell it if you want, or just using the OTS tunes wich put the most gains that any other OTS tune, etc., etc. No wonder a few GIAC clients are little **** off LOL

Quote: I definitely understand the pros and cons of the various tunes. And Cobb produces a product that allows a lot of flexibility for the end-user in terms of data logging and custom tuning on the spot. If your Number one priority is tweaking your tune a lot the Cobb AP is the product to do it with. It makes it easy. To me, tweaking my tune a lot is not a priority. To me, the most important things are power repeatability, reliability and smoothness. On the smoothness ground, my GIAC tune has OEM levels of smoothness which is a big deal to me. The throttle tip in is not affected in any way and neither is the smooth Idle. The only difference is that the rush of power is much stronger when the turbos come on. In terms of reliability, in the 9000 miles I have on had my car, virtually all of them with the GIAC Stage 2, I have experienced no mechanical issues or problems. Engine and drivetrain have been perfect. As far as power and repeatability I'm looking forward to testing those aspects against some Cobb tuned cars with intercoolers at upcoming events in October. Obviously if anyone has put water meth or a nitrous system in their car or is using leaded C16 which destroys these cars they'll be more powerful than me. But if they have similar mods (tune/upgraded ICs/catless exhaust/plenum) we will have a real comparison. Tuners' Dyno ratings are one thing but the real test of how powerful tunes are is how they do at these events in terms of ET's and trap speeds. It's good for we owners that there is competition in the tuning world for our cars as competition pushes each of the leading manufacturers to do better and better. That explains why I reported extensively and with dyno data and actual times at events on the heat soak issues I was experiencing at events. It's my hope that these problems have been solved with the intercooling upgrade. The proof will be when I take it out to compete. I will tell you one thing though. I got to hold the stock intercoolers for my car just now and I had previously held the champion ones. The stock ones are so paperweight light I couldn't believe it. The champion ones are much heavier -- there's just so much more core material in there. Hopefully that's the solution to the problem I was having. The car's performance events will tell us. Champion and Tom spent a massive amount of time on my car over the last several weeks and I appreciate all the hard work they did. The car was literally on the Dyno for days as they worked with different mods I wanted trying to make it more powerful. As far as pissed off GIAC 991 TTS customers honestly I haven't spoken to any. But I'm sure if there were they be reporting it on the boards.

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Quote: Dude, did you ever drove a Cobb car??? They are flawless in terms of power repeatability , reliability and OEM levels of smoothness. My 997.2TT have more than 10k right now problem free... I drove both tunes in 991 and 997.2 plataforms and both are like stock when you drive it on DD basics, the difference is when you go WOT The tunes perse in OTS form are very similar but COBB step it up when you can do all the things GIAC won't do, period If you want to talk performance I did 7.2 sec on 60-130mph (look my thread about it) with only Fabspeed, COBB and 100oct fuel... What GIAC car ever did that with same mods??? Oh and not everybody with modded 991's enter the forums

Quote: I haven't driven a Cobb tuned car nor have I said anything negative about Cobb although you do seem quite enthusiastic when it comes to bashing GIAC. In my post, I was explaining my experience in detail that i have had with my GIAC tune. It could very well be that owners of Cobb tuned cars experience the same very positive qualities. At this point, I make no boasts or claims as to how my GIAC tuned car will perform against Cobb tuned cars at events. But we will find out shortly. And I will post the results win or lose. I recently did that with the performance of my Renntech tuned E63 S at Racewarz at Pocono International Speedway last Sunday where I won some races but lost others.

I'm not bashing GIAC, you post that with GIAC your car is flawless in terms of power repeatability , reliability and OEM levels of smoothness like COBB didn't have that and that's why you choose GIAC, if I misunderstood your comment I'm sorry, I don't want to start a discussion... Just sharing my experience with both, and both are excellent products no doubt about it but I preffer COBB for what they give and better "bang for the buck"

Quote: Perhaps you did misunderstand What I was saying. I wasn't saying Cobb tuned cars don't have those attributes. I don't know either way as I don't have a Cobb tuned car. I was just stating that my GIAC car does have those attributes. The one thing I didn't like was the heat soak power loss from repeated runs at speed events which the intercooler upgrade is addressing in all of our cars. If I were some mindless fanboy I would never mention that. But I talked about it extensively and with data because above all else on these forms I value my integrity. The bottom line is that both the GIAC/Champion team and and the Cobb/ByDesign team have come up with these new intercooler upgrades and stronger tunes which I expect will take performance on our cars to the next level. Can't wait to see which package makes our cars faster.

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Quote: Me too

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Quote: I don't think there's any pissed off GIAC clients LOL. I think you might be the only pissed off one here LOL. There are also many GIAC dealers that can offer custom tunes. We just custom tuned SDG's car, and we have custom tuned dozens of 997.2 Turbos....you know the 997.2 Turbos that NO ONE has beaten yet.

Quote: I know of no stock Turbo 991 or 997 that has ever beaten Longboarder's GIAC tuned 997 at an event for example.

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Quote: Oh yeah you guys are the only ones that sell GIAC Oh and Long's .2 is fast no doubt about it... his so lucky that I move up to 991 TT LOL

I used to be a GIAC customer and had zero complaints. I am now a COBB customer because timing wise it made more sense for me to try them. I drove in SDG's GIAC car and it was a monster at Stage 2, I have no doubt his stage 2+ would be even more so. Speaking of SDG he is very unbias in all his product reviews, he was the one who brought up the heatsoak issue as well as loss of power in his newly purchased FVD headers. I would say he's a great contributor to all of us as customers and vendors. My experience with COBB is the following - their customer service surpasses anyone I have dealt with, even compared to institutional standards. Emails were responded within minutes and all concerns were addressed. I am however still getting used to the surge of power around 3k RPM, this aggressive tune combined with my catless exhaust makes the car feel very" raw" - vibrations and crazy noises. I will swap cars with SDG very soon to report back on daily driving and performance.

Quote: Thanks. I just want the fastest car while still retaining OEM level driveability and smoothness as 99 percent of my driving of this car is daily driving and not events. I am open to any vendor's mods if they work the best. For example if the Cobb tuned/ByDesign IC cars crush mine at the upcoming speed events that would be a very big deal to me. Yes Cobb was extremely responsive to your smoothness concern. Terrific customer service on their part. They responded immediately to try to diagnose and fix the concern. This was right after the Cobb Stage 2 and AP came out for our cars and right after you got your TTS. So it could've been a teething issue with the brand new AP/tune or to simply a very new experience in terms of the car that you bought being different from your prior cars. Either way Cobb was all over it to take care of you which speaks well for them. Similarly with my heat soak concerned, Tom from champion was all over that and worked super hard with me and my car to fix it and optimize it for the future. The surge of power you feel at 3k could just be the fact that you are in a super powerful turbo car. That is where the turbo power hits. Or not. We will switch cars and drive and we can compare. With respect to your concern about noises, with a soft top cab you may not have the same level of noise isolation as my hard top coupe. I don't think I would've done catless if I had a soft top. I do not hear crazy noises or big vibrations with the Tubi catless so far. You have Fabspeed catless so some of the noises could be the different exhaust's noise characteristics , the mounting of the exhaust or the fact that you have a soft top. We will see in person. Maybe they are there in my car but I just ignore them because my exhaust even catless is still quieter than my exhaust on my E63S with the renntech sport mufflers.

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Quote: Excellent and informative post! Just saying....

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Quote: Yes I hope so, although the sound inside is louder with the top up than down. The vibration and sound around 3k makes it feel like the engine is being pushed to the limit, more so than its at much higher RPMs.

Quote: That is really bizarre. I simply do not hear sounds like that or any other RPM that would sound like my engine is being pushed to it's limits.

Sdg how do u like your Tubi Race? Obvi u t making more power but in your words how would u describe it to the EP?

Sdg how do u like the Tubi race? How would u, in your words, describe it compared to EP

How Would u describe Tubi race to the EP? U like it?

Quote: I now have my car back from Champion (picked it up from the transporter at 630 am this morning) and got to drive it a little. My impressions of the Tubi catless vs Europipe soundwise: 1. Cold start up sounds a lot louder with Tubi catless. 2. The Tubi catless exhaust noise in normal is only a bit louder than EP. 3. There is very little popping/backfiring noise when you let off a heavy throttle in normal with Tubi catless. 95 percent of my driving is in normal. 4. With Tubi catless the popping/backfiring noise when you let off a heavy throttle in sport and sport plus is a good bit louder than with EPs. 5. The turbo and wastegate noise is a little louder with Tubi catless than with EP but not dramatically so. My initial impression is that the Tubi catless is not as loud in the cabin as I feared. It is not louder than the exhaust noise in my E63 S with Renntech sport mufflers. There is no question that the car is more refined sounding with Europipe (while still producing some excellent noises) and more aggressive sounding with Tubi catless. My biggest and really only concern is that on cold start up the noise from outside the car will cause a problem with my neighbors. I wish there was a way to tune away the cold start up mode. One of my racing friends who is a tuner did that for his catless downpipes F10 M5 due to his neighbors. Really didn't have an opportunity to do any killer pulls this morning. Staten Island during rush hour is crawling with traffic and police so going wild with my new beast at that time of day is not an option. Did one WOT pull from about 10 mph on sport plus and my Pilot Super Sports did not slip.

Thanks for the intensive review Soooo Understanding you only did 1 pull I'm very curious to hear your review of the stage 2 on race fuel to say your current set up on 93👍🏻 Seat of the butt meter!! Thanks in advance

Quote: I need to do more pulls to give you an accurate review. One is not enough. The car felt very strong. The Dyno results on Stage 2 plus on 93 show greater gains than I would have on race gas on Stage 2. And when I compete on Stage 2 plus I will be using MS109 which adds about 25-30 wheel hp on the race gas tune subfile.

Fun fun!!

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Quote: I hope its because of certain frequency of the exhaust that causes the vibration...

Quote: Sounds right. Either the natural frequency of the exhaust or an issue with the installation not being tight enough. There's no way that wonderful engine is being pushed who is limited only 3000 RPMs. Has to be something else.

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Quote: Haha hello my friend and congratulations on picking up a 991. I may do that but after two long test drives of a 991 Turbo S I could not find a reason to part with my 997.2. My car is at BBI right now losing about 100 pounds. Ditching the stock adaptive sport seats in favor of the lighter and much more comfortable recaros. May do some other weight reduction mods and of course the fuel system Love this car and I hope you enjoy your 991

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Quote: Whay's up my friend... The 997.2 is a terrefic plattaform and have nothing to envy the 991, I just bought mine because it was a very good deal, gonna miss the long discussion about (more famous now) "giac vs cobb battle" in the 997 section hehehe I'm gonna test a few things in this plattaform knowing now a few good tricks that I learn on the 997.2 Keep up the good work on your car, it's a very solid project See you around!!!

Ok,I produce these times, with GIAC Stage 2, tubi catless, 100OCT. Nobody has produced faster times yet, except 1 guy blasting nitrious! bring it on Cobb!