advice please--987 vs 986--value for money & reliability--ot - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I currently run a series 1 mx5 1993 with 128,000 miles on the clock I absolutely adore the car ,as with my limited driving ability , and the congestion and cameras on UK roads , I can drive the mx5 to a higher proportion of its abilities , and still keep my license intact and have fun , than I could a higher powered , wider tyred , car the car is wonderfully well balanced , and its narrow width is a major advantage in the real world I have just returned from a great 3,500 mile trip to Italy , which included my annual visit to the Lamborghini factory , as well as early morning drives on the futa and raticosa passes and the twisty sarteano road . the last was a real delight and my series 1 car proved totally reliable , and totally enjoyable throughout however, my wife was not completely happy , as the mx5 has no air-conditioning , and I am actually in the very fortunate position where my wife is now actually asking me to buy another car---any car as long as it has A/C !! my thoughts instantly went to an elise , and a boxster the elise has the advantage of a reliable Toyota engine , but limited boot space for long trips abroad , while the boxster has the ims, bore scoring and rms issues to count against it I have also briefly considered the vx220 , and the s2000 there are 2 boxsters I am presently liking : -an early high mileage ( 2002 , 90,000) , 986 BOXSTER S (252 BHP) with a plastic screen , for about £6000 -a 2006 (registered in march 2006 by the selling dealer , but who knows when it was actually produced by the factory ) gen 1 , 987 BOXSTER S with 280 bhp , with 70,000 for about £13,500 both cars are private sales without any warranty , and have full main dealer service histories I am acutely aware of the ims and bore scoring issues ideally I would go to a gen 2 987 , and so eliminate the ims issues totally , but this is outside the present budget so the questions are : -would I still have the risk of bore scoring with a gen 2 987 car ? -would I be best off hanging onto the mx5 , and saving up for a gen 2 987 (if borescoring is genuinely no longer an issue with the gen 2 987) -does anyone know for sure when the factory started using the larger ims bearing in the gen 1 987 --the date or the chassis number after which the larger bearing was definitely used ? -would you go for the £6k car or the £13.5 k car-----bearing in mind that the ims could give way with either car at any time ? -is there much difference in the driving experience between a boxster S of the 986 variety vs the 987 ? - any other cars that you would consider--- working A/C essential , AND must be fun to drive slowly as well as quickly anyone with a low owner,v good condition, FSH 987 in a red or yellow ,or best an arancio (orange ) boxster considering selling ? thanks for your thoughts

A 987.2 would be the best bet, but they'recirca £20k. A friend had a 986 3.2S and the RMS was seen as almost a service item. Personally I'd go for an Elise, that's the route I went from an MX5 and it's probably more fun. Enjoy not a bad choice to have to make!

If your wife doesn't like the MX5, she'll hate an Elise. Personally I'd keep the Mk1 and drive it to it's grave. But a Boxster is a cracking car if that's the way you want to go.

Hi, 944 cab with working air con? Cracking car.

Mk 3.5 MX5 seems an obvious option? You can fit a surprising amount in an Elise if you pack carefully in soft bags, but the air con is pretty dreadful (at least it was on my 2006 Exige)

thanks for all the replies I had a 944 turbo 220bhp from 1994 to 2006---really great car, but v expensive to maintain at an opc , and I seemed to hate the sort of heat you found in southern france and Italy a really civilised car , and I did consider a 968 , but I thnk that ive got the 944/68 t shirt my wife actually likes the elise took a 217 bhp car for a test drive last week, but it seemed terribly expensive for what it did----great composure around corners and on bumpy roads and the prices of 2nd hand cars , sadly for me , seem to be as bullet proof as the Toyota engines I wonder if a 986 S with 252 bhp will be significantly faster and more fun than a totally wrung-out 1.6 series 1 mx5 with 114bhp ? there is fun in almost, but not quite, hitting the rev limiter in 3 or 4 gears do you think a boxster S ~(986 or 987 gen 1 ) would repay , in driving pleasure, the extra costs of maintainance , insuarance , road tax , and angst of the ims going pop, vs a basic mx5 that you could rev like there is no tomorrow

carspath said: thanks for all the replies I had a 944 turbo 220bhp from 1994 to 2006---really great car, but v expensive to maintain at an opc , and I seemed to hate the sort of heat you found in southern france and Italy a really civilised car , and I did consider a 968 , but I thnk that ive got the 944/68 t shirt my wife actually likes the elise took a 217 bhp car for a test drive last week, but it seemed terribly expensive for what it did----great composure around corners and on bumpy roads and the prices of 2nd hand cars , sadly for me , seem to be as bullet proof as the Toyota engines I wonder if a 986 S with 252 bhp will be significantly faster and more fun than a totally wrung-out 1.6 series 1 mx5 with 114bhp ? there is fun in almost, but not quite, hitting the rev limiter in 3 or 4 gears do you think a boxster S ~(986 or 987 gen 1 ) would repay , in driving pleasure, the extra costs of maintainance , insuarance , road tax , and angst of the ims going pop, vs a basic mx5 that you could rev like there is no tomorrow A 986S, having had 2, will feel faster than an MX5 no question. In the longer corners and more open ones it will be quicker, but in the tight very twisty stuff there won't be that much in it. New clutch and IMS is not much more than £1k. You can still drive them very hard and if you like your European driving then that is the prefect place for a 986S. Done some good hard driving across Alps/Pyrennees in mine keeping up with much more powerful stuff. My current one is a 2004 with 114k up.

thanks edc who is it that you go to for the clutch and ims at £1k ? I thought that it cost a lot more to do the ims do you get yours done at a set time interval? thank you

Carspath, an interesting question as I am in virtually the same position. I have a mk1 1.6 MX-5 (which I am keeping) but am currently looking for a 987S to do things like the euro tours you mention. Personally, I prefer the looks of the 987.1 to 987.2 as I think the .2 looks too much like a facelift and doesn't have the purity of the earlier car. I also thought about a 986 (which is the car I wanted as a teenager) but decided against it for now, as I'd be tempted to keep it like the MX-5, and I can't do that as with the cars and bikes, things are getting out of hand already. As I'm only intending to keep the car a year or two, and to provide greater differentiation between the MX-5 and the Boxster (and also the touring aspect), the 987 is the right answer for me. One day, when I have more spare funds and space, I'd love to add a 986 as a keeper, but that's some way away.

The lfacelift 986 with glass rear screen and 260bhp is a fantastic car especially with some spec. Bose, heated seats, 18"s and if you can find one with it, pse- the sports exhaust make them even better to own. Despite what you read on PH not every 986 will need costly work. I ran 2 one from new and all it had was regular servicing. My brother in law bought new at the same time and ran his boxster s from early 03 to 2012 again with no issue at all. You get two big boots a sixth gear and proper AC.' I love the Elise and have owned many over the years. For long trips the Boxster is undoubtedly the better car.'an Elise is not a happy place to be at motorway slogs nor in the heat where they will feel hotter than an mx5 due to targa design. Get a nice 986s from a nice owner. 987 wasn't a massive step on and 986 is so cheap now it's laughable.

I had an Elise & ultimately swapped for a Boxster. The Elise was more fun, but in all honesty, just so impractical for 2 people it didn't get used much. You will use the Boxster more. Want to go away for a weekend on a 150mile journey, you would take the Boxster every time.

I'm sure there is little to spend on a 986 when it is new and young, but like an MX5 with it's rusty sills and baggy suspension, when the cars get older like any car you inevitably have to deal with the wear and tear. I had a 2000S in 2012 with 58k at purchase and a 2004 in late 2013 with 105k at purchase. To keep them tip top you will or the previous owner will have spent a not insignificant sum to 'futureproof' it. I had the clutch and IMS ceramic bearing done at Revolution for circa 1,100. Both cars had suspension overhauls. I do more than necessary and ahead of failure so some useable parts are wasted but when you do 2,500 hard miles in Europe each year you don't want any nagging doubts about the reliability of your car.

Get a Mk1 MX5 with A/C.

Acquah said: Carspath, an interesting question as I am in virtually the same position. I have a mk1 1.6 MX-5 (which I am keeping) but am currently looking for a 987S to do things like the euro tours you mention. Personally, I prefer the looks of the 987.1 to 987.2 as I think the .2 looks too much like a facelift and doesn't have the purity of the earlier car. I also thought about a 986 (which is the car I wanted as a teenager) but decided against it for now, as I'd be tempted to keep it like the MX-5, and I can't do that as with the cars and bikes, things are getting out of hand already. As I'm only intending to keep the car a year or two, and to provide greater differentiation between the MX-5 and the Boxster (and also the touring aspect), the 987 is the right answer for me. One day, when I have more spare funds and space, I'd love to add a 986 as a keeper, but that's some way away. A Mk1 MX5 and a Boxster is a great combination. That's what all the best people have.

cmoose knows his stuff so the best bet would be a 987.1 3.2s.

bluenosewrx said: cmoose knows his stuff so the best bet would be a 987.1 3.2s. Excluding the facelift 987 and newer, the 'best' bet would be the earliest 986S or 2.5. The 987.1 3.2 is no different to the 2001+ 986S. In fact, my 985 550 has pretty much the same output as the 3.2 987.1 so you're not short-changed on the power side either.

I went from MX5 to 2.7 987 2005 MY - it doesnt quite have the urge of the S but my budget wouldnt stretch to the 987 S - and having driven the 986 and 987 I knew I wanted the 987. Combination of much more modern look inside and out, much bigger front boot (no spare wheel), and just a nicer drive (for me - others prefer the feel of the 986). The 2.7 is far from slow and is way faster than the MX5 I had. There are less bore scoring/Ims issues too. As for Toyota engines being bullet proof - not a chance ! My mate with an Elise has had his off the road for 9 out of the last 12 months due to engine failure - it still isnt sorted - so it happens to all cars.

My advice would be to get the best 986 you can find with low number of owners, full service history with receipts and in a good spec. Then get it straight along to Revolution for the Clutch/IMS combo (approx. £1200) with their free vehicle inspection service thrown in. This should then give you peace of mind over the only major flaw these cars are susceptible to and also the multi point check will give you a heads up on future expenditure needed, allowing you to prioritise jobs. Having said this a good 986 with previous enthusiast owners should need little doing over and above consumables/servicing For me the 986 is the more analogue car, which has made me buy 3 of them in quick succession. You generally get a better condition vehicle for the same price than if you were buying like for like in 987s too. Edited by billzeebub on Thursday 6th August 18:07

anonymous said: [redacted] Couldn't agree more. I've gone for exactly this - a *very* early 987.1 3.2. Went with the very early 987 because I knew I was getting the upgradable IMS bearing, rather than the later fixed version. Russ @ revolution has now fitted the LN Single Row pro upgrade, so that's peace of mind on the IMS front. Also had a few other bits replaced (engine mounts, AOS etc) as these were all ten years old. Well looked after, these cars will run for a very long time, and give good reliability. Of course, if you skimp on maintenance, they're probably going to cause problems. I plan for upgrades / replacement on a year-by-year basis, so over the next couple of years I'll replace all major suspension and brake components and then take stock of what's next. Probably a more vocal exhaust get fitted once I'm happy with suspension and brakes.

csmoose & davidjg & others , please could you elaborate on the specific dates of the boxter S cars that are least likely to give me grief in terms of bore scoring, ims , and rms problems the 2 cars I am looking at are a : - 2002 986 with over 90,000miles at £6000 , and a - uk 987 that was first registered by the uk selling dealer on 1st march 2006 with over 70,000miles at £13000 both are with FSH , but private sales with no warranty do the dates of these two S cars, ring any alarm bells ? should I be holding off, and looking for earlier or later cars? the gen 2 987 is well outside budget sadly anything to suggest that one of these cars is preferable over the other interestinly, the insurance premiums for both these cars was identical thank you for all your help

in addition to replying to what I have written in the posting immediately above, please would csmoose explain to a newbie , exactly what you mean by the sentence below : '' The possible joker in the pack is the MY2006 3.2 987 which may have the final large single-row bearing, but opinion is divided on whether that actually happened - the bearing, not the car existing! '' i'm confused , should I be seeking or avoiding a : -MY2006 3.2 987 -the final large single-row bearing on this basis , is a 1st march 2006 boxster S a car to seek out or one to avoid thanks

carspath said: in addition to replying to what I have written in the posting immediately above, please would csmoose explain to a newbie , exactly what you mean by the sentence below : '' The possible joker in the pack is the MY2006 3.2 987 which may have the final large single-row bearing, but opinion is divided on whether that actually happened - the bearing, not the car existing! '' i'm confused , should I be seeking or avoiding a : -MY2006 3.2 987 -the final large single-row bearing on this basis , is a 1st march 2006 boxster S a car to seek out or one to avoid thanks The point is that the switch over from one IMS bearing to the other didn't happen on a set date, we think. As a result you can't be sure what a car will have if it's a 2005/2006 car. I had my car serviced by a mechanic would thinks that the bearing on the 987 didn't change until 2007, so that's muddied the water even further for me.

A very early 987 *should* have single row IMS. IIRC, the dual-row was introduced for 2006 model year, so sometime in '05. My car is March 05 and has the upgradable bearing. A March 06 car will *probably* have the larger non-upgradable bearing, although this bearing has a much lower failure rate anyway, and wouldn't worry me too much if I had one. Bore score simply isn't known as a problem on the 3.2 of any age. 3.4 is a different matter though!

What about a BMW Z4m Roadster? Better engine than the boxter, faster and a can get some decent toys on them for the long trips. Generally reliable.

CornishRob said: What about a BMW Z4m Roadster? Better engine than the Boxster, faster and a can get some decent toys on them for the long trips. Generally reliable. They got criticised in the press for their handling a ride quality though. The Boxster is always considered the superior car in the press. Hammond likes it though. TG Edited by VladD on Friday 7th August 10:01

VladD said: CornishRob said: What about a BMW Z4m Roadster? Better engine than the Boxster, faster and a can get some decent toys on them for the long trips. Generally reliable. They got criticised in the press for their handling a ride quality though. The Boxster is always considered the superior car in the press. Hammond likes it though. TG Edited by VladD on Friday 7th August 10:01 You are correct some did. But as a second hand purchase and what the OP intends to use it for, it would be worth a look I think. I personally would be going for a Z4m over a boxter, but then maybe im biased! Little more PH info to mull over http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

anonymous said: [redacted] Interesting what you say, the chassis code on my LHD 2000 Boxster S has an "S" as the 11th digit in the chassis code. Would this be what you refer to? The car was delivered new in Germany before living in the UK and now Spain. Certainly, I have had no complaints so far and it has a very full spec. For just over 5 grand it represents a huge amount of car for the money. As a strange aside, this letter S is causing me huge problems trying to register it as the V5 is wrong and has a 5 instead of an S. Attempting to sort it out now.

anonymous said: [redacted] Cool . Sorry for mini thread hijack OP. Just extolling the virtues of an early 986S, especially one of German origin it would seem.

anonymous said: [redacted] Quite right. But the larger bearing does seem to have a lower failure rate than the '00 to '05 item. When I booked my '05 3.2 in for IMS upgrade, Russ (Revolution) took the view that he couldn't be sure which version of the bearing it would be without having a look, so may be that some later 3.2s did get the later bearing?

Coming from 2 Mk1 MX5's and then onto my current 987.1 Boxster 2.7 I can confirm they are fantastic cars for the money and look more expensive than they are.I'm currently halfway through a Euro tour in mine,visited Maranello today,38 degrees!the aircon was a lifesaver after I gave up trying to look cool and put the hood up too save myself from heat stroak suprising how many people took an interest in the Boxster given the number of Ferrari's around!!

Looking at a 03 3.2 with 43k and full history , I am just so undecided on whether to pull the tigger. I understand after reading this thread Bore score is not a big issue. Do I need to be worried on the other known problems and are they a really expensive fix.

Best budget £1200 to get the IMS &clutch changed....sorted! 986 is where my money would go 3.2, brilliant cars!

hilly10 said: Looking at a 03 3.2 with 43k and full history , I am just so undecided on whether to pull the tigger. I understand after reading this thread Bore score is not a big issue. Do I need to be worried on the other known problems and are they a really expensive fix. If clutch good and it should have life left then I'd just drive it and when clutch needs doing in a couple of years of in 20k time then do IMS then.

anonymous said: [redacted] How do you ascertain the difference between 987.1.3.4 and 987.2.3.4? Mines an early 2007. I've just done 2200 miles popping down to the Dordogne and then to French Alps. It used a total of 400ml oil to keep the electric dipstick up to the full mark and is still showing full 300 miles later. Think mine's ok....- well I hope so!

The seed of doubt was in my mind just could not bring myself to buy the Boxster, so this evening I pulled the trigger on a Z4 3.0 si 2008 50k miles in Abouslute concourse condition with nothing to do .

andygo said: anonymous said: [redacted] How do you ascertain the difference between 987.1.3.4 and 987.2.3.4? Mines an early 2007. I've just done 2200 miles popping down to the Dordogne and then to French Alps. It used a total of 400ml oil to keep the electric dipstick up to the full mark and is still showing full 300 miles later. Think mine's ok....- well I hope so! Gen 2 987 has the restyled lights and bumpers. Either way 2007 is gen1.