Cayman Tyre Replacement - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Currently looking to change tires on my 2019 Cayman. Running 20” alloys and currently wearing Michelin Pilot Sport 4s, do I keep with the same or change to maybe a Goodyear Eagle F1?

Why do you want to change? Have you found the Michelin tyres wanting? Michelin Pilot sport 4s get the best reviews. Stay with what you have in my opinion

PS4S

PS4S always seem to have good reviews on here. I switched to F1s as am running 18"s and the Michelins aren't available in N spec. The F1s are certainly a lot better than the awful P Zeros it came on, especially in the wet and cold.

Stick with PS4S unless you have a reason not to IMHO.

Tires? In Lancashire? Well it depends what you want from tyres, but this is worth a read/watch (that's to everyone of course ) https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

I've got Pirelli PZ on my 718S on 19" I would switch to Michelin PS4S if they made them in 19"N spec, but they don't, so I am limited to Pirelli PZ or Yokohama

I'd go PS4S, they really are quite good.

Sorry OP to hijack your thread but my CGTS 4.0 came with P Zero's from new. The rears are not far off needing changing but the fronts still have plenty of life. The car is used mostly for touring and is never tracked. What's the opinion on putting MPS4S on the rear and sticking with the P Zero's on the front until they need replacing?

I had PZero N0 20's for a year from 2015 - awful. Pirelli inspected and they turned out to be faulty with cracking in tread and sidewall. Replaced all round with GY F1 A2 as I had these on my TTS and found them good. They were but... The Goodyear fronts failed MOT in 2020 due to slits all around the inside near the rim. GY inspected and found to be faulty. Replaced with PS4S all round. No problems with these. They seem to give a firmer ride than the GYs which were fabled to have soft sidewalls. Next change I will stick with PS4S but would return to GYs if I could trust them. A newer version than A2 may be more reliable but then I can't say how the ride would be. My conclusion - stick with PS4S, although my tyre retailer of 25 years says Michelin have the most returns of all the tyres they sell. However he and his wife love the PS4S and found them way better than every other brand when invited to a blind tyre test on track a few years back.

CardiffTam said: Sorry OP to hijack your thread but my CGTS 4.0 came with P Zero's from new. The rears are not far off needing changing but the fronts still have plenty of life. The car is used mostly for touring and is never tracked. What's the opinion on putting MPS4S on the rear and sticking with the P Zero's on the front until they need replacing? An OPC may say this is against the new car warranty rules. Check with them. But I personally wouldn't run different tyres on different axles in any case and your OPC will probably advise the same even if not against warranty rules.

DJMC said: An OPC may say this is against the new car warranty rules. Check with them. But I personally wouldn't run different tyres on different axles in any case and your OPC will probably advise the same even if not against warranty rules. Thanks for the response. It did cross my mind regarding warranty. Think I will change all 4 corners.

CardiffTam said: It did cross my mind regarding warranty. Think I will change all 4 corners. If it is a new car it wouldn't take long to find out Porsche's take on it warranty wise. But given that they are two different sized tyres front and back anyway, only two driven so different uses, they would all be to the correct spec N? I would have no problem with doing what you are suggesting. There is probably more difference between new(f) v old(r) tyres of the same make on one car anyway.

Thanks for all your inputs and advice, managed to get a set of PS4S, so fitting on Saturday morning. Looking forward to get the handling back. 18k running out of set is good value IMO

981Boxess said: There is probably more difference between new(f) v old(r) tyres of the same make on one car anyway. Not so sure about that! P-Zeros vs PS4Ss are night and day different in feel to me.

Twinfan said: 981Boxess said: There is probably more difference between new(f) v old(r) tyres of the same make on one car anyway. Not so sure about that! P-Zeros vs PS4Ss are night and day different in feel to me. You are probably right but let me introduce a few facts, not from me but from a technical chap I had a chance meeting with from Pirelli. Not a technical chap you get on the end of a phone who repeats what it says on the screen, this bloke knows. About 12 years ago the EU banned the use of the chemicals that preserve the compound of tyres over time. The manufacturers didn't put up much of a fight because overnight it made them more money, but it was a game changer from the point of view of tyres going off. This made the storage of tyres and the supply chain much more critical, the majority of retailers do not store tyres properly (temp/humidity). Now no doubt somebody will be saying what happens when they are on the car, I will come back to that. If you have your tyres fitted at a Pirelli performance centre, there are not that many, the tyres will be the best you can buy because the storage/supply is strictly controlled. If you go to a normal tyre dealer if they have them in stock, they will almost certainly have stored them wrong, maybe even for a long time, if they ordered them in from a wholesaler that makes it worse. The DOT number should be the same on both tyres on an axle but even that isn't the whole story because the batch number dictates the compounds, the DOT number is only a rough guide of when they were made. No two batches are the same compound, not miles out, but not the same. Now obviously if Stuart in Glasgow speaks to Pierre in Cannes about their one year old Boxster tyres they will have found differences in how they have found their tyres. One may have a garage, the other may not, one will have had sun, the other will have had wind and rain. So the two sets of tyres made the same day in the same factory are now completely different a year later. But one will read on PH that Michelin are better than Pirelli and that is what they will go out and buy next time. Tyre A may age better than tyre B, so at what age, point in time would you like to compare their performance, new, a month later, a year later? There is more to it than the above, we spoke for over an hour about this but the point I am/he was making is that no two sets of tyres of the same make are the same and from the day they leave the factory that difference gets greater. In short you could well have taken a set of brand new Pirellis off and replaced them with brand new Michelins and noticed the difference straight away, equally someone else doing the opposite could say the same. Not saying you are wrong, just sharing what someone who is an expert on the subject shared with me, make of that what you will. No doubt a retired milkman from Skegness will soon be on telling me why the bloke from Pirelli is wrong and he knows better. This guy happened to be in my area and I arranged for him to come to me to check my tyres, they had micro cracking, they were not faulty, the cracks are entirely related to the above, which is why he explained the above and they do not affect the integrity/safety of the tyres in any way. Hence my original response above.

Good stuff, cheers for that. I still reckon a 'bad' PS4S will feel different/better than a 'good' P-Zero

Twinfan said: Good stuff, cheers for that. I still reckon a 'bad' PS4S will feel different/better than a 'good' P-Zero I bet you are glad you gave the milk round up, it really is quite chilly out there today

981Boxess said: bet you are glad you gave the milk round up, it really is quite chilly out there today Just going by my experience, however badly the tyres had been stored!

Orangecurry said: Tires? In Lancashire? Well it depends what you want from tyres, but this is worth a read/watch (that's to everyone of course ) https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi... Really interesting, thanks for sharing. My first 718 Cayman came on 18" P Zeroes, which to be honest I thought were pretty OK, nothing special, but then I wasn't racing the car, I was commuting and doing some motorway driving. I fitted Pirelli Sotto Zeros for winter, and they were really good, especially in the snow. New 718 Cayman last year came with 18" Eagle F1s, but I changed over to a new set of Sotto Zero before the car hit the road, as it was an early December collection (and yes, also in Lancashire... ). I had intended to fit the Eagle F1s last weekend, but then noticed we had some sub-zero and snow forecast for last week. The forecast was correct, and the "winters" remained the right choice. I'll check the weather forecast on Sunday, and hopefully within the next couple of weeks can report back on whether Eagle F1s suit the 718 much better than P Zeroes as everyone says. I certainly never found P Zeroes to be as horrendous as popular internet wisdom has it. Maybe low expectations, but I have a set for my 981 GT4. On wet (often cold) Lancashire roads they are lot more forgiving than the PS Cup 2s that go on for track days. Can only agree with the points made about production batches having a really major effect on tyre performance nowadays. I am a keen Rotax Max kart racer, and there can up to be few tenths of difference in lap time, even with very recent production "control" tyres nowadays. Occasionally gambling on getting a third race meeting from a set of tyres can pay off in a big way, because a good old set is suddenly better than the latest production batch. More often than not it's the other way around by the final race of the day though. Liam

Two points. Different tyres front to back is 100% against Porsche specification and requirements and warranty will not be renewed if you have these. Regarding P-Zeros, there is a huge difference between the N0 version of the P-Zero and the newer N1. My personal preference would still be for the Michelin PS4S N0, but the N1 P-Zero is by no means a bad tyre.

Wollemi said: Regarding P-Zeros, there is a huge difference between the N0 version of the P-Zero and the newer N1. My personal preference would still be for the Michelin PS4S N0, but the N1 P-Zero is by no means a bad tyre. Mine came on p zero N1s. They were fine in the dry but switching to F1s was a revelation in the wet and cold. I’ve read there were issues, but the N0s must be really abysmal.

Wollemi said: Different tyres front to back is 100% against Porsche specification and requirements and warranty will not be renewed if you have these. The warranty can be renewed/extended without them looking at the car, so not sure how true that is.

981Boxess said: he warranty can be renewed/extended without them looking at the car, so not sure how true that is. Thats a very good point, in fact you could have all sorts of unapproved mods etc and they wouldn't know about them. How does that work then?

Wollemi said: 981Boxess said: he warranty can be renewed/extended without them looking at the car, so not sure how true that is. Thats a very good point, in fact you could have all sorts of unapproved mods etc and they wouldn't know about them. How does that work then? The porsche service dept could void the warranty in case of a claim.. That is the risk anyway. Whether they would is another question. It depends on how brave one feels

Thanks for all the advice and feedback, I managed to get four new Michelin Pilot Sport 4s N rated today. Cleaned and rebooted and ready for a TIPEC run tomorrow morning.

Wollemi said: 981Boxess said: The warranty can be renewed/extended without them looking at the car, so not sure how true that is. Thats a very good point, in fact you could have all sorts of unapproved mods etc and they wouldn't know about them. How does that work then? Having asked all the right questions let me just say it isn't black or white and some of the stuff people are quoting as facts on here are wrong. That is the nature of public forum, your car, your wallet, you decide.

xxxx5 said: Thanks for all the advice and feedback, I managed to get four new Michelin Pilot Sport 4s N rated today. Cleaned and rebooted and ready for a TIPEC run tomorrow morning. Looks great. What was the total cost of your new boots if you don't mind me asking.

981Boxess said: you are probably right but let me introduce a few facts, not from me but from a technical chap I had a chance meeting with from Pirelli. Not a technical chap you get on the end of a phone who repeats what it says on the screen, this bloke knows. This guy happened to be in my area and I arranged for him to come to me to check my tyres, they had micro cracking, they were not faulty, the cracks are entirely related to the above, which is why he explained the above and they do not affect the integrity/safety of the tyres in any way. Hence my original response above. In 2016 a Pirelli engineer, organised by Samantha Taylor at Pirelli GB, came to inspect my front Zeros as they had cracking in the tread and shoulders, as under... The engineer said the cracking was not normal, declared them faulty, took them away, and offered to pay for the new Goodyears I'd already replaced them with, for which I provided him with a copy invoice. A cheque from Pirelli followed shortly after. Crap tyres but excellent customer service. Was your cracking different to mine?

981Boxess said: he warranty can be renewed/extended without them looking at the car, so not sure how true that is. In 2017 I extended my original warranty with a 2yr Porsche extended warranty, following the compulsory 111 point check. When this was coming to an end in 2019 I contacted my OPC to extend it and they offered a complimentary (mandatory) 111 point check. The car failed on a missing tyre pump under the bonnet and aftermarket accessories (Zunsport grilles). Tyres are item D on the 111 point check list, as under (from 2015): I'd be interested to know under what circumstances you were offered a renewal without the 111 point check?

I think it is a recent development that porsche don’t need the 111 point inspection to renew teh Warranty as long as it is currently within warranty. If the warranty has lapsed then it needs the 111 point check to bring it backcourt into warranty scope. If it has is out of warranty and its last service was out of teh OPC network, it needs the 111 point check and a full OPC service to bring it back into warranty

CardiffTam said: ooks great. What was the total cost of your new boots if you don't mind me asking. Just under £1k

DJMC said: In 2016 a Pirelli engineer, organised by Samantha Taylor at Pirelli GB, came to inspect my front Zeros as they had cracking in the tread and shoulders, as under... Was your cracking different to mine? That was then, they have now worked out what is causing this (see my post above). Those cracks on your tyres would not affect the structural integrity of the tyres in any way. If a customer is not happy with that, depending on how much tread there is left on the tyre they will replace them, yours would not have been accepted under the current scheme.

DJMC said: In 2017 I extended my original warranty with a 2yr Porsche extended warranty, following the compulsory 111 point check. When this was coming to an end in 2019 I contacted my OPC to extend it and they offered a complimentary (mandatory) 111 point check. The car failed on a missing tyre pump under the bonnet and aftermarket accessories (Zunsport grilles). Tyres are item D on the 111 point check list, as under (from 2015): I'd be interested to know under what circumstances you were offered a renewal without the 111 point check? The circumstances are you no longer need to do the 111 point check if your warranty is still current. Your information on how this works is out of date.

elan362 said: I think it is a recent development that porsche don’t need the 111 point inspection to renew teh Warranty as long as it is currently within warranty. If the warranty has lapsed then it needs the 111 point check to bring it backcourt into warranty scope. If it has is out of warranty and its last service was out of teh OPC network, it needs the 111 point check and a full OPC service to bring it back into warranty Spot on

elan362 said: I think it is a recent development that porsche don’t need the 111 point inspection to renew teh Warranty as long as it is currently within warranty. If the warranty has lapsed then it needs the 111 point check to bring it backcourt into warranty scope. If it has is out of warranty and its last service was out of teh OPC network, it needs the 111 point check and a full OPC service to bring it back into warranty That's interesting, thanks. That would could mean that an owner pays for many extensions and doesn't find out the warranty was always void until they claim. In my case the 2017 warranty was void immediately it was placed on the car as OPC Leicester incorrectly applied it, according to PGB, due to it having Zunsport grilles fitted. When the same OPC did the 2019 111 point check, this time they failed it on the grilles (and absent tyre compressor). I subsequently demanded my 2017 warranty fee back from Sytner which they paid in full. PGB said it would have been down to the OPC, and not the warranty insurer, to sort any warranty claims whilst driving with a void, incorrectly allowed, warranty. So the 111 point check was a good way of ensuring your car still met the rules, but if driving with one incorrectly applied at least you have some come back against the OPC if something does go wrong.

981Boxess said: hat was then, they have now worked out what is causing this (see my post above). Those cracks on your tyres would not affect the structural integrity of the tyres in any way. If a customer is not happy with that, depending on how much tread there is left on the tyre they will replace them, yours would not have been accepted under the current scheme. You're saying on the one hand that if I'm not happy the tyres would be replaced, and then on the other hand they wouldn't be replaced. I don't understand? So I phoned the Pirelli engineer who came out in 2016... He explained storage pre-sale has very little to do with cracking compared to post-sale. It's usage, or non-usage, and where the car is kept. The chemicals which were banned were aromatic oils (a pollutant), replaced by anti-oxidants which are current. In use the anti-oxidants "circulate around the tyres" (his words) but if the car is used little, or kept outside, lack of sufficient "heat cycles" and the effect of ozone will affect the tyres adversely. He said any claim for cracking in tyres over 4 years old will be rejected automatically. Mine were manufactured 2013, fitted to a 2014 car, and the claim was in 2016 so they were considered to be faulty as the cracking had occurred earlier than 4 years. It may also have been the combination of tread and sidewall cracking which drew this conclusion. So it's age which will affect the success of a cracking claim, not customer happiness. Tread wear may dictate the amount of compensation but he was very generous with mine, giving effectively a full refund for half worn tyres. I'm guessing your cracking was in tyres over 4 years old which would explain why your engineer didn't offer to recall them?

DJMC said: I'm guessing your cracking was in tyres over 4 years old which would explain why your engineer didn't offer to recall them? Just over two years old, so wrong again, I see a pattern forming here. I won't bother going into what Pirelli did for me because I get the impression you are more interested in nit picking than learning anything.

DJMC said: That's interesting, thanks. That would could mean that an owner pays for many extensions and doesn't find out the warranty was always void until they claim. In my case the 2017 warranty was void immediately it was placed on the car as OPC Leicester incorrectly applied it, according to PGB, due to it having Zunsport grilles fitted. When the same OPC did the 2019 111 point check, this time they failed it on the grilles (and absent tyre compressor). I subsequently demanded my 2017 warranty fee back from Sytner which they paid in full. PGB said it would have been down to the OPC, and not the warranty insurer, to sort any warranty claims whilst driving with a void, incorrectly allowed, warranty. So the 111 point check was a good way of ensuring your car still met the rules, but if driving with one incorrectly applied at least you have some come back against the OPC if something does go wrong. It may be the case that they will honour a OPC warranty If you come in with grilles fitted, but not put the warranty on as it fails a 111 point check.. I've asked my dealer whether RGS grilles will cause a warranty issue. Until I get confirmation I'll remove them before I put the car in to the dealer and refit after. It only takes 10 min to fit / remove

xxxx5 said: Just under £1k Many thanks for the info.

A number of different experiences on here regarding warranties, and also mixed with some urban myths and some total b0llocks. I had a 981 BS with warranty and fitted Zunsport grilles. Made 3 claims with the OPC during this warranty period, one driver's window switch, two expensive leaks caused by blocked drains. All paid for under warranty. No arguments. Also renewed the warranty (inc 111 point check) whilst the grilles were fitted. Service manager stated "don't worry, they're fine". If my local OPC refused warranty due to these, I'd challenge and/or move OPCs. This behaviour is not consistent. I would expect a different view if I had a warranty issue that could be directly or indirectly attributed to the grille fitment and the associated system or a malfunction due to non-OEM parts being fitted. Much in the same way I'd expect there to be an issue if my bose amp blew up after fitting a Joyauto box to my PCM. However, I would totally expect a claim for the drivetrain to be honoured even with a PCM mod in place. I now have a CGTS, with warranty, recently in the same OPC for an MOT. No comments on the grilles I've fitted whatsoever. My advice - don't believe all the urban myths about "if you put an air freshener in your car you'll void warranty" or "if you don't use Porsche screenwash you're in trouble if your gearbox blows up". Speak to your OPC service manager. If their attitude is bad, move to one that is more customer centric.

Also in the mix is that the underlying insurer that backs Porsche warranties has changed recently The new one I think has much less rigid terms and conditions with respect to all this “non OEM” stuff My CR was in at Porsche Brooklands recently for its 10 year service, it has girodiscs all round, according to service manager that’s a complete non issue for when I want to renew the warranty next year …

Simo_UK said: A number of different experiences on here regarding warranties, and also mixed with some urban myths and some total b0llocks. I had a 981 BS with warranty and fitted Zunsport grilles. Made 3 claims with the OPC during this warranty period, one driver's window switch, two expensive leaks caused by blocked drains. All paid for under warranty. No arguments. Also renewed the warranty (inc 111 point check) whilst the grilles were fitted. Service manager stated "don't worry, they're fine". If my local OPC refused warranty due to these, I'd challenge and/or move OPCs. This behaviour is not consistent. I would expect a different view if I had a warranty issue that could be directly or indirectly attributed to the grille fitment and the associated system or a malfunction due to non-OEM parts being fitted. Much in the same way I'd expect there to be an issue if my bose amp blew up after fitting a Joyauto box to my PCM. However, I would totally expect a claim for the drivetrain to be honoured even with a PCM mod in place. I now have a CGTS, with warranty, recently in the same OPC for an MOT. No comments on the grilles I've fitted whatsoever. My advice - don't believe all the urban myths about "if you put an air freshener in your car you'll void warranty" or "if you don't use Porsche screenwash you're in trouble if your gearbox blows up". Speak to your OPC service manager. If their attitude is bad, move to one that is more customer centric. Urban myth... 20/05/2019 "Hi David, Thank you for your email and apologies you were unhappy on Friday. Unfortunately I am not sure I am going to be much help on this one as the team have been correct in what they have done, even in trying to soften the ‘blow’ by not charging for the MOT. We all understand your reasons for having the grills fitted but we have to adhere to the policy set out by Porsche and we won’t deviate from this so the only way forward to enable a warranty would be to have the grills removed and the correct tyre inflator in the car. My understanding is the same as you have put below regarding a Service Advisor who is no longer with us mistakenly allowing the warranty to be put on last round. I have only been with the business since January, Dave started late 2017 and for both of us integrity is everything hence not being able to put the warranty on and we couldn’t comment on what other Centres are doing, I can only speak for Porsche Leicester. This is the first time grills have been mentioned to me so I am unaware of how much feedback Porsche have had on these, Dave recalls having one conversation with a customer in addition to yourself in the time he has been here but as I say I understand your reasons for having them fitted and the reluctance to have them removed. I know nobody ‘wins’ in this scenario except for maybe the independent dealers but I assure you we will always do our best to give the best possible service. Regards Steve Steve Dickinson Centre Principal Porsche Centre Leicester Fletton Close Thurmaston Lane Leicester LE4 9LP" PS... the tyre inflator is back in the car.

981Boxess said: ust over two years old, so wrong again, I see a pattern forming here. I won't bother going into what Pirelli did for me because I get the impression you are more interested in nit picking than learning anything. I was just correcting what you had said earlier about customer unhappiness being the reason for Pirelli to accept a tyre as faulty, whereas it's the tyre age of 4yrs+. Would you like the Pirelli technician's phone number so you can confirm what he said?

DJMC said: 981Boxess said: Just over two years old, so wrong again, I see a pattern forming here. I won't bother going into what Pirelli did for me because I get the impression you are more interested in nit picking than learning anything. Would you like the Pirelli technician's phone number so you can confirm what he said? DJMC said: So I phoned the Pirelli engineer who came out in 2016... Lots of what you have posted is wrong according to someone I met from Pirelli that has forgotten more about tyres than you know. I know how Pirelli deal with these claims because I had one of their employees standing in front of me explaining it, apologies if I am taking his word over yours. What is more of a concern is that you revisited a warranty claim you made SIX years ago in a desperate bid to try and look less clueless than you actually are. You even rang somebody up who had the misfortune to have dealt with you SIX years ago to do it. You then raise your level of stupidity by suggesting I also ring them to waste more of their time to ask questions I already l know the correct answers to. Whilst I appreciate you may not have anything more useful to do with your life it would be wrong to assume the rest of us are in similar positions. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to know about how the changes in tyre technology and the storage of tyres affects the lives of tyres I suggest they read what I have posted, as told to me by Pirelli.