Which 911? - Financial, Practical, Investment - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Variations on this theme have probably been done many times before on PH, but cars, values and circumstances change and i could find anything recent and relevant. Practicalities as follows: Have a budget of anything up to £80k (ish) Moved house last year, have done up the double garage and now have room and ‘need’ for a second car Other car is a Cayman with PDK, new one must be a 911 and manual Size matters, later cars are a little too big so 997 is latest model i’d want (and prefer them anyway) Car would get irregular use, probably a few long road trips, weekends away, car shows etc. Finances etc: Budget is all cash, but £10k would come from current investments (which was worth £20k last year ) there are other things the Steering Committee wants me to do to the house which i’d need to defer Need a car that is likely to at least hold its money. Appreciate no guarantees but needs to be at least considered safe and would be easy to sell if ever needed. I’m stuck on 3 choices. There are of course others, but i’ve actually almost bought all of these cars already and at one stage or another i’ve ‘decided’ on one and then had second thoughts. In the case of the Turbo, i’ve owned before and massively regret selling. 993 Carrera (2 or 4). Quite fancy an air-cooled and these were my poster car in my late teen years. Should be a solid investment but not sure geared towards irregular use and not as modern to drive. Should give me some spare money for other projects and i could leave my investments where they are. 997.1 Turbo. Miss it terribly, loved everything about it. But do i go back? Would give me £15-20k cash left, but not convinced values are right and as an investment case it’s not quite as clear. Best all-rounder. 997.1 GT3. Drove one briefly some years ago. Remember it being hard to drive but utterly amazing to steer down the road. Probably the best investment case, as in i’d be moving cash in stagnant investments into something tangible that should at least pay me back should i need to. Obviously the sensible answer is don’t buy anything and just keep the cash, but where’s the fun in that? I’ve lost two family members to cancer in last tear and both told me they regretted the choices they didn’t make. ETA - moving towards GT3 as the right choice, but need some PH parental advice and guidance. Edited by Jefferson Steelflex on Wednesday 1st February 20:46

The 7.1 GT3 is the driver's car for the track but it is not a relaxing car to drive ( I have a 7.1RS). Heavy clutch, very engaging to drive hard, but not a weekend cruiser in my view. I don't use mine much in heavy traffic or the like.Very hard suspension also. I would be inclined to go for the turbo which would better meet your stated needs. Just one view.

Jefferson Steelflex said: Budget is all cash, but £10k would come from current investments (which was worth £20k last year ) If I was in your position, I'd be looking long & hard at a 964 Targa or C2 - just my 2p OT (sorry), but in terms of your one line above, does that 10k have a chance to bounce back? Otherwise you are crystallising a 50% loss...

JohnnyUK said: Jefferson Steelflex said: Budget is all cash, but £10k would come from current investments (which was worth £20k last year ) If I was in your position, I'd be looking long & hard at a 964 Targa or C2 - just my 2p OT (sorry), but in terms of your one line above, does that 10k have a chance to bounce back? Otherwise you are crystallising a 50% loss... Don’t worry, the stuff i’m invested in there isn’t coming back any time soon. Partly the reason why i’d rather just spend it on something that at least won’t disappear completely. If you follow the “Big Gamble” thread in the Finance forum it’s full of people like me. Cars make more sense to me longer term.

Second a 964

Ok let’s add some criteria. Would need to be a dealer purchase as i’ll be p/x ing my 981 Boxster GTs (unless it sells privately in the near future). And absolutely no convertibles. I think that rules out 964s as all the Coupe and Targa models are getting snapped up for silly money. I also would want a car with air con which i imagine was rare on the 964. So likely a no on many criteria there, which is why i discounted it early.

..Aircon..

I would buy the newest 911 I could.

Manual RWD 997 GTS Coupe...there's a reason they are hard to find, the good ones do come up they sell quickly. Sold mine last year as am trying other 911 flavours. Awesome road cars and personally with a manual gearbox I think that suits a naturally aspirated 997 more than a Turbo. Lots of people say they're expensive vs a 997.1 GT3 but it is much easier to buy a 997.1 GT3 than a good 997 GTS. Yes a GT3 is more of an occasion but it's use case is a bit more limited...eg I doubt SWMBO would want to go away for a weekend in one. As a safe place for your money I think a good 993 manual coupe would be a good candidate.

997 GT3 Still small but with mod cons.

How about a 996 4S ?? Looks good and drives pretty well I would say, and might even creep up in price in coming years, you'd get a nice one for probably less than half your budget ??

Jefferson Steelflex said: Don’t worry, the stuff i’m invested in there isn’t coming back any time soon. Partly the reason why i’d rather just spend it on something that at least won’t disappear completely. If you follow the “Big Gamble” thread in the Finance forum it’s full of people like me. Cars make more sense to me longer term. My advice. Spend it on your house. You don't need another car.

Cheib said: Manual RWD 997 GTS Coupe...there's a reason they are hard to find, the good ones do come up they sell quickly. Sold mine last year as am trying other 911 flavours. Awesome road cars and personally with a manual gearbox I think that suits a naturally aspirated 997 more than a Turbo. Lots of people say they're expensive vs a 997.1 GT3 but it is much easier to buy a 997.1 GT3 than a good 997 GTS. Yes a GT3 is more of an occasion but it's use case is a bit more limited...eg I doubt SWMBO would want to go away for a weekend in one. As a safe place for your money I think a good 993 manual coupe would be a good candidate. Agree with all of this, esp re the 997 GTS. Very good cars.

Have you looked at 996 GT3s? Fabulous driving cars and good on road if set up accordingly. Small and engaging to drive and you should be able to get a lovely one within your budget (and some change back). Prices lagged quite far behind 997 GT3s last year but the gap is closing so should be a safe place to put your money. RHD 996.1 is a rare car and you only need to look on PHs classifieds to see how many are for sale. The original GT3 and a significant part of Porsche GT car history etc. plus the power / pace is ideal for road use. Some great articles on it if you do a search. https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911-gt3/203241/histo... https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a19693746/po...

I’ve had a 996 C4S and enjoyed it but i’m not a fan of the narrow body shape of them and i couldn’t get on with the interior. Strange reason i know for dismissing a 6 GT3 but interior things like ergonomics is important. I know that might contradict the 993 choice as well but they have character on their side. GTS feels like a nice halfway house,but prices are ridiculous. I just don’t see them being sustainable, and give me a choice between a G3 and GTS at the same price point and it’d be the GT3 all day long. I’m not averse to a hard drive, i had a 718 Spyder for a while and yes it was a compromise at times but it wasn’t overly difficult to live with. Can’t shake that Turbo memory though.

Jefferson Steelflex said: I’ve had a 996 C4S and enjoyed it but i’m not a fan of the narrow body shape of them and i couldn’t get on with the interior. Strange reason i know for dismissing a 6 GT3 but interior things like ergonomics is important. I know that might contradict the 993 choice as well but they have character on their side. GTS feels like a nice halfway house,but prices are ridiculous. I just don’t see them being sustainable, and give me a choice between a G3 and GTS at the same price point and it’d be the GT3 all day long. I’m not averse to a hard drive, i had a 718 Spyder for a while and yes it was a compromise at times but it wasn’t overly difficult to live with. Can’t shake that Turbo memory though. <100 manual GTS, agree prices are v high, As others have said, a GT3 is less useable, much better on track, but doesn't offer the utility you get with a GTS. 997.2 Turbo S?

First Sea Lord said: Cheib said: Manual RWD 997 GTS Coupe...there's a reason they are hard to find, the good ones do come up they sell quickly. Sold mine last year as am trying other 911 flavours. Awesome road cars and personally with a manual gearbox I think that suits a naturally aspirated 997 more than a Turbo. Lots of people say they're expensive vs a 997.1 GT3 but it is much easier to buy a 997.1 GT3 than a good 997 GTS. Yes a GT3 is more of an occasion but it's use case is a bit more limited...eg I doubt SWMBO would want to go away for a weekend in one. As a safe place for your money I think a good 993 manual coupe would be a good candidate. Agree with all of this, esp re the 997 GTS. Very good cars. Also agree. Had my manual 997 GTS for 2.5 years now and it's the perfect all-rounder. They also seem to retain their value well, are just the right size and with them now entering Porsche Classic territory will benefit from reduced maintenance prices at OPCs.

paul0843 said: I would buy the newest 911 I could. That is the correct answer.

I think you will struggle to find a 997GT3 (or 996GT3) with an 80K ish budget. It will likely limit you to comfort specs or cars that are sitting around because they have some 'history'.

Do you want a sports cars or a cruiser? Sports get the GT3 Cruiser the Turbo

Regbuser said: ..Aircon.. You can retrofit electric air-conditioning to older models. https://www.classicretrofit.com/products/air-condi... I think it'll fit anything before the 993. For my 2p the GT3 will hold value, as will the Turbo... What about a 996 GT3 or similar?

I dont think anything is a given to hold price or appreciate unless it is a limited number or brand new GT product. If you cant afford the car to devalue then the ownership experience wont be an enjoyable one. My GT3 is worth give or take the same as it was when i bought it 18 months ago but its still cost me circa 5k in running costs over that time.

Owned 997.1 Carrera S/ GT3/Turbo Think you should try a 991.2 GTS Could be the niche your looking for

You sound like you won’t get on with aircooled. No air-con and if they do it usually doesn’t work. Plus the running costs to get them tiptop are very high. Other than air-cooled then for “investment” (god I hate that b ks) it has to be a GT3. Failing that a GTS at the very least. But I think they’ll still drop a bit just like GT4s. Someone suggested the newest the 911 you can afford. I’d say that’s the total opposite of what to do if you are wanting to retain as much value as possible. I think you’re stuck to be honest. The only cars that could remotely be seen as investments are the ones you mention, 964/993. But running costs will be expensive and adding miles will affect value. If you can get in a 997 GT3 I’d say that’s your only hope. My wife comes away with me in my 996 and she’s totally fine. We’ve done some long days too, eg. 13 hours. They aren’t a torture device and the 997 is better than the 996 at the longer jaunts. As mention though you’ll be scraping the barrel with an £80k budget.

GT3. If you want more practicality just buy a comfort and dial the suspension into soft. Seat belt anchor points are also there so you can even install rear seats if that takes your fancy. Edited by shantybeater on Sunday 5th February 00:04

I’d be very wary about considering any car as an investment - there are too many factors, and the likelihood is we are moving back to normality. Older cars also have higher running and service costs. Possibly safest bet, and possibly one of the nicest choices could be the new 992 T. Limited run, if you can get one, new with warranty and lower running costs, and built to your spec - and probably a better road car than a GT3. Under £100k I believe.

Thanks all. I should probably use an another word other than Investment. What i mean is a car that will likely be desirable, the sort of thing that when i ring up a specialist up in x years to sell it, or place an advert on PH, i get genuine interest in it. Something that has value, and will be likely be sought after. To explain, i am the embodiment of wrong car, wrong time. Everything i’ve owned has lost me a lot of money because i’ve chosen badly on impulse or just bought and sold at the wrong time. I’m a car dealers dream. I’ve been though everything from 996 to 992 trying to make the right choice, as well as a couple of Caysters, and i know now what i want. 991 and 2 are too big and not what i’m looking for. 996 too dull inside and out. It tried a 993 at the weekend and now accept these are not the type of driving experience i’d like, so 997 is what i’m focused on. So choice is Turbo or GT3. I think either would be good, have owned/driven them both previously so happy with the compromises of each. I’d want a comfort GT3 which perhaps is harder to judge if financial suicide or not given people for some reason prefer a bloody cage in the back, but there you go and i guess it would be cheaper to buy in the first place. JZM have a nice one in white, in fact they have an example of both a GT3 and a Turbo in right now so perhaps that’s a sign…

I suspect the most robust holder of value would be a 997.2 GT3 but this would sit above your budget. Hence the 997.1 GT3 should make the budget requirement and offer most resilience when the inevitable market correction hits at some point in the forthcoming recession. I suspect that the comfort would suit you better but may not be as marketable as the clubsport version. I do not think the 997.1 turbo will be anywhere near as resilient when the market falls. I'd love to have some time in a 997.2 turbo if manual is available. I think the turbo would make for a much more enjoyable cruiser but I have a bit of a mental block with regards to running costs. I have no evidence to support my concern other than imagining the additional components ie turbos and associated cooling rads etc will impose additional maintenance/ replacement costs. I could be wrong! I read that you do not want the increased girth of a 991 however, I'll ignore that (!) and suggest either a 991.1 GTS (non-turbo) or 991.2T lightly enhanced by Litchfield. I think these two and the 997.1 GT3 are the stand out models within your budget which will put up a good fight against the depreciation demons. Peter

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212022... No association with the car/owner etc but this is where I would be. You don't mention (or maybe I missed it), do you intend to track it etc. I've owned a 997.1 GT3 and 997.1 Turbo, both manual. The GT3 was comfort with carbon buckets and PCCBs. Bought and sold both a few years back and both sat around the £60k mark. The GT3 would be another £20k but the turbo hasn't moved much. On the road I would have the turbo every time, I tracked it a few times and was pretty good but obv not as good as the GT3. Warranty....both mine were under warranty, the turbo had an engine rebuild at 34k mls with a bill to Porsche over £40k. The report described a tolerance issue in manufacture. Older 997s would be over the 15yrs warranty limit now.