To Paint or not to Paint that is the question! - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Getting ready for summer, and doing a few jobs on the car, and wanted to test out a few opinions. Basically I have a 997 GT2 in Carrara White, as you probably know these car run sticky Cup Tyres, great for grip, crap for the stones they throw up against the body work, particularly the edges of the arches rear of the front and rear tyres, the fronts also stick out enough to pepper the lower part of the car under the air intake in front of the rear wheels, this line of site also extends to the intake vents although much less so. I've put around 5k on the car in the last two years and intend to keep, front boot lid also has a few small stone chips that have also been touched in pretty well but if you look hard enough they are there The rear plastic clear guards under the air intakes are slightly off colour and showing the effects of the fronts throwing up stones and so really need replacing. I'm very particular about the car so looking to also replace the front splitter, the rear stone guards etc. Anyway to cut a long story short, I took it to a trusted body shop that deals In high end car repairs and paint work, they've painted a couple of previous cars, Range Rover and Lexus LS460 and done an absolutely perfect job. I've had the car to them to price up all this work and they have taken photos, had a number of people in the shop look at the job in detail and they think it will be difficult to match in perfectly just doing spot smart repairs and they are not recommending this as they think it will reflect badly in terms of appearance due to blend lines with the existing paint and panels and have basically recommended doing pretty much the whole of each side, this will fix all evidence of stone chips and will be re-laquered, if they are doing this I'm thinking that they may as well do the front boot lid as well, I know from previous experience that the car will look like new again, they are also going to add additional protection to the exposed areas to help prevent this happening again. The cost for all of this is about £2K and includes about £300 in parts and will take a couple of weeks. If this car was on sale at a Porsche showroom and due to the nature of the car they would have already pulled the trigger so to speak and done the paintwork. Just to be clear car is not damaged in anyway, and I'm going to photograph the hell out of it for before and after just I case anyone tries the it's had paint moan in the future. Presently it's not up to the 100% standard that I think it should be, only done 16k and bugging the hell out of me, it's never been tracked and as a keeper I want it to be right basically. I'm also wondering about getting them to use Ceramic Lacquer, it's seems far tougher than the usually stuff, less prone to chips and is super shiny! Thoughts please?.. Question is, what would you do? Paint it or not? Personally I'm tending towards having it done, they've said it won't be possible to tell and I don't want spot repairs all over the place so what appears to be a fairly minor issue in the scheme of things is a costly job to do right. Also what effect does this have on the value of the car especially as Porsche wouldn't think twice about doing it. Thanks all.... Edited by goldsbd on Wednesday 14th January 23:19

Originality everything. If i was buying that car off you I'd prefer to buy it how it is. Its a racing Porsche - bit of road rash is nothing IMO. It will just happen again ceramic coating or not.

Depends how OCD you are. Personally I like to keep my cars looking 'as new' even with mega motorway miles on them so I maintain them regardless of cost - e.g. on my RS60 I have full Paintshield and have replaced things with 'road rash' such as air intakes and mud guards. I wouldn't recommend smart repairs at all. I had to have a full bumper respray after a 2 inch smart repair flaked badly after a year. If you are going to do something do it properly Also, is the bodyshop OPC Approved? The only reason I ask is via the OPC my respray is guaranteed for life and I have the certificate for that which I can pass on when selling, whereas I would not have got this if I went direct to the same bodyshop (who have been highly recommended on PH).

I tend to agree on the originality front; however if I went to buy this car, I'd want it fixing properly before I took delivery of it, and may even think other items were also not kept up on the car, also at what point does road rash become unacceptable and start to make the car look uncared for? Good point about the Porsche Approved body shop, however I think there's no guarantee they will do a better job, could be worse. The Lexis LS460 was bought by a Lexus Dealer from me, I told them about the rear bumper being repainted (the entire thing) and they didn't even blink! They also won't cover it for future road rash and I would think a warranty from this specialist (they may actually already be approved anyway)would be as good as any other. As I said I think Porsche would just do it and not even think about it to present it in the best possible condition. So far 1 for, 1 against, you guys are not making this easy!! :-)

goldsbd said: I tend to agree on the originality front; however if I went to buy this car, I'd want it fixing properly before I took delivery of it, and may even think other items were also not kept up on the car, also at what point does road rash become unacceptable and start to make the car look uncared for? Good point about the Porsche Approved body shop, however I think there's no guarantee they will do a better job, could be worse. The Lexis LS460 was bought by a Lexus Dealer from me, I told them about the rear bumper being repainted (the entire thing) and they didn't even blink! They also won't cover it for future road rash and I would think a warranty from this specialist (they may actually already be approved anyway)would be as good as any other. As I said I think Porsche would just do it and not even think about it to present it in the best possible condition. So far 1 for, 1 against, you guys are not making this easy!! :-) Hi Darren hope you're well mate. Having seen the beast I'd leave original, an expert buyer/inspector will always know if its had paint. I wouldn't have a problem with having the nose cone done though buddy. Ed

Get it fixed, but take before and after pictures to show what you've had done and keep all the paperwork.

As said above take lots of before pictures including it going into body shop with no damage. It will always detectable regardless of who does it but as I am a paint stickler I would want it as perfect as is possible. I agree with the OPC route as it will always look good in the history that that choice was made. I have had great results from LLoyds Autobody in Manchester who are Porsche approved and the body shop of the OPC. They are also Bentley and Mclaren I believe. Call and ask for Roy, he's the boss there or Lee who is his right hand man. Both very easy to deal with.

Gents, thanks for the feedback so far, actually the front of the car (bumper is almost completely clean and devoid of any chips and doesn't need doing I was still definitely on the fence and unsure, but i'm afraid the more I look at it the more my OCD is taking over. Just been for another good look, took a couple of pics and basically there is hardly any paint left on the lips, before long it will be through the next layer too, in fact looks like its through to the plastic of the actual bumper almost. I blame it on the s**t road surfaces that they do these days, cheap fix, costs motorists £1,000's getting stop chips sorted and chipped windscreens etc.!!! Pics below, at the end of the day, you'd touch up stone chips, except there are too many so it needs fixing professionally. It will only bug me and will end up being done at some point, so just to explain a bit further as it probably wasn't entirely clear earlier, they will only paint the bits that need painting with white paint, but the lacquer layer will have to extend, it basically means that 99% of the paint on the car will still be original but so there is no blend line they have to lacquer the panel to do it properly. Cheers

That wouldn't bother me in the slightest but I know how you feel. Have you perhaps thought about a wrap for now? Honestly I'd happily buy that car with that little bit of rash no problem at all. Its not like a purchaser has lots and lots of choice any way as they are as rare as hens teeth. JZM are selling a £425,000 964 turbo S and it has 5 x more road rash than yours. I asked them if they were going to paint it and answer was no way. If the new owner wants to paint it they will but they do not want to mess with its original condition and would rather let the new owner see the car in its full glory. I was astonished how much road rash it had around the rear wheel arches. May be a wrap in Gulf or Kremer colours!!!

IMIA said: That wouldn't bother me in the slightest but I know how you feel. Have you perhaps thought about a wrap for now? Honestly I'd happily buy that car with that little bit of rash no problem at all. Its not like a purchaser has lots and lots of choice any way as they are as rare as hens teeth. JZM are selling a £425,000 964 turbo S and it has 5 x more road rash than yours. I asked them if they were going to paint it and answer was no way. If the new owner wants to paint it they will but they do not want to mess with its original condition and would rather let the new owner see the car in its full glory. I was astonished how much road rash it had around the rear wheel arches. May be a wrap in Gulf or Kremer colours!!! Hi IMIA, tbh, not a great fan of wraps, can't tell what's really underneath and I would feel its just hiding it rather than sorting properly, there doesn't seem to be a 100% correct answer at present so still on the fence tbh..., apart from the price maybe why that one hasn't sold yet.

Paint it. Jeeezus its a bit of paint, its your car you want it to look great, thats not a bad thing. People are way too precious about this and i understand its all because some buyer in the future may think you are trying cover something up but i think buyers need a reality check.. OPC's throw paint all over their cars and no one bats an eyelid as it "official" paint... Cars get driven and as such their paintwork will take some wear, thats why cars get painted in the first place isnt it? If its ultimate originality a buyer is looking for then they should buy a new one.

ttdan said: Paint it. Jeeezus its a bit of paint, its your car you want it to look great, thats not a bad thing. People are way too precious about this and i understand its all because some buyer in the future may think you are trying cover something up but i think buyers need a reality check.. OPC's throw paint all over their cars and no one bats an eyelid as it "official" paint... Cars get driven and as such their paintwork will take some wear, thats why cars get painted in the first place isnt it? If its ultimate originality a buyer is looking for then they should buy a new one. Well it's kinda of where I am, I'm sure there are thousands of Porsches that have gone through OPC dealers that have had paint and present owners are none the wiser!

My view would be leave it as to me a car like this looks more "real" with some real world wear and tear on it. If a car is faultless body work wise I find it tends to make me a bit paranoid about using it, parking it etc, where as if a few minor marks etc you tend to not worry and just use it as intended. At the end of the day its Your car, do what makes you feel right

I think you're torn between getting the car how you would like it (repainted and mint) and how *some* potential buyers at some point in the future *might* prefer that it was left how it is (while realising that some would also prefer it mint). I think this thread shows people are split on this so I'd suggest making the choice of having the car how you would prefer it as I'm sure that will give *you* more pleasure. I also think the recommendation of using a Porsche approved bodyshop is a very good one - comes with guarantee, and universally acknowledged for future buyers. Someone like Road and Race (award winning Porsche bodyshop) will do a great job.

If you can live with it, I'd leave as is, my worry would be that you end up starting a job that just escalates into a full respray If you do get it painted as soon as you start using the car again potentially you will be getting new damage. I'd be inclined to clean it up as best as you can, then apply some helicopter tape or film on the areas to prevent it getting any worse. Great car by the way, have been watching them for several years as a replacement for 996 GT2.

Since you intend to keep it and the road rash bothers you, get it redone but document the before & after as others have suggested. If you were going to sell I'd have said leave it.

Thanks all, basically decision made, its being fixed, I spoke to OPC today who then put me onto the Approved OPC Body shop that also deal with Bentleys, Ferraris and Porsche etc. Dealer basically said if they were to sell it, any evidence of chips would prompt an immediate trip to the body shop to be fixed, so basically if you've ever bought a second hand car and he even mentioned the odd brand new one her and there that had had paint, then the likely hood is it may have had some paint, but done properly. Then spoke at length to the guy at the body shop explained what needed doing and the various opinions that I'd asked for, he was telling me how they were all car guys and that they have at least 10 Porsches a month from OPC that go through their body shop for this type of work, basically OPC and advice from Body shop was to get it done properly, they will also apply additional protection to areas where needed, price was really a lot less than I thought it would be too. Both OPC and Body shop said that I should hold on to the car at all costs and keep it as mint condition as possible as they are extremely rare and the Market for a mint well cared for car was greater than the one for poorer condition cars, also said prices for these was continuing to shoot up and as said previously that I should hold on to it. And on that note, I basically want it right, it will have additional protection that will at least help prevent this happening for the foreseeable future, car mileage will be minimal from now on anyway so condition should be maintained at least for the next 10 years! and my OCD will calm down... hopefully!! Cheers Gents!

keep us informed how the job goes, i would have made the same decision

ttdan said: Paint it. Jeeezus its a bit of paint, its your car you want it to look great, thats not a bad thing. People are way too precious about this and i understand its all because some buyer in the future may think you are trying cover something up but i think buyers need a reality check.. OPC's throw paint all over their cars and no one bats an eyelid as it "official" paint... Cars get driven and as such their paintwork will take some wear, thats why cars get painted in the first place isnt it? If its ultimate originality a buyer is looking for then they should buy a new one.

thegoose said: I think you're torn between getting the car how you would like it (repainted and mint) and how *some* potential buyers at some point in the future *might* prefer that it was left how it is (while realising that some would also prefer it mint). I think this thread shows people are split on this so I'd suggest making the choice of having the car how you would prefer it as I'm sure that will give *you* more pleasure. I also think the recommendation of using a Porsche approved bodyshop is a very good one - comes with guarantee, and universally acknowledged for future buyers. Someone like Road and Race (award winning Porsche bodyshop) will do a great job. +1 As you've already decided get the car how you would like it, if it was mine I'd want it perfect. Great looking car by the way...

I am waiting to collect 997tt from OPC end of this week as replacement for my Carrera. Was fortunate enough to view it pre-purchase warts and all on the ramp in the workshop and it is one of the cleanest I viewed. It was exhibiting some very minor road rash in the same places as OP BUT OPC would not allow me to buy the car without it being painted to their standard in order to have 2 year extended warranty. It would appear to be standard practice for Porsche to paint their used stock . I am sure the OP's OCD will be satisfied by repaint, mine will..........what the eye can't see, the heart won't grieve over.

goldsbd said: car mileage will be minimal from now on anyway so condition should be maintained at least for the next 10 years! and my OCD will calm down... hopefully!! Did you buy it to drive? If you bought it as an investment then great but sometimes we get fixated on the values and end up not driving these wonderful cars. When I look back on my F cars and the pressure of minimal mileage sometimes putting me on a train when I really wanted to drive I am annoyed that I conformed to protect my investment. Im sure there is a balance but getting older while your Sports car ages under a cover somewhere is not ideal either. On top of that you will now want to protect your new paint which is a non use double whammy. Maybe go and stick a couple of thousand hard miles on it before it goes in.

5517 said: goldsbd said: car mileage will be minimal from now on anyway so condition should be maintained at least for the next 10 years! and my OCD will calm down... hopefully!! Did you buy it to drive? If you bought it as an investment then great but sometimes we get fixated on the values and end up not driving these wonderful cars. When I look back on my F cars and the pressure of minimal mileage sometimes putting me on a train when I really wanted to drive I am annoyed that I conformed to protect my investment. Im sure there is a balance but getting older while your Sports car ages under a cover somewhere is not ideal either. On top of that you will now want to protect your new paint which is a non use double whammy. Maybe go and stick a couple of thousand hard miles on it before it goes in. Well, I think like a lot of people who may have got lucky with some of these cars and bought at the right time I certainly bought it to drive it, I was never going to put 10k a year on it, but always thought 2.5k to 3k a year was reasonable. But, and it's a big but! I also had in the back of my mind when I bought it that these were rare, I always regretted selling a late 1994 3.6 Turbo n Midnight Blue, look what's happened to those blxxdy things.. So at present due to the very significant appreciation of it, I'm now looking to reduce the mileage to about 1k per year as sad as that sounds, I can already hear the groans of dismay because I'm of the same opinion that it should be driven more. Anyway what I did find was that having travelled over to OPC body shop on a truly dreadful day Saturday Morning just gone which was a 140 mile round trip from where I am, I was met with snow and ice and mostly 1 degree weather that made for interesting driving, when I got back car was filthy and needed a good wash to remove grime etc. what I found after a good 4 stage wash (jet off, snow foam, bucket of warm soapy, then dry) that actually the dirt in the paint on the arches came out and they now look pretty normal and actually don't really need doing, at least not for now, still having front splitter changed, rear clear armour as well, but basically I'm much happier about its condition after all of that and I'm probably going to leave it for the time being. Maybe get it done next year, but will give it a proper wash before deciding... The reality is that the car is now essentially going from something that I had intended to use at a rate of 3k a year ( yearly Europe trip plus local stuff ) to something that will be used less because the market place has pushed the prices up to a point where it's become too valuable to drive. TBH, I'd rather keep the car and do less in it, maybe a euro trip every few years, if I sold it I doubt any owner of these cars is going to rack up significant miles anyway with many of these being exported or going into collections. Also the money would go into something else and I'd never ever get back into one, so this one could be part of my pension, who knows what it could be worth in 20 years, they don't make them like they used to!!

goldsbd said: 5517 said: goldsbd said: car mileage will be minimal from now on anyway so condition should be maintained at least for the next 10 years! and my OCD will calm down... hopefully!! Did you buy it to drive? If you bought it as an investment then great but sometimes we get fixated on the values and end up not driving these wonderful cars. When I look back on my F cars and the pressure of minimal mileage sometimes putting me on a train when I really wanted to drive I am annoyed that I conformed to protect my investment. Im sure there is a balance but getting older while your Sports car ages under a cover somewhere is not ideal either. On top of that you will now want to protect your new paint which is a non use double whammy. Maybe go and stick a couple of thousand hard miles on it before it goes in. Well, I think like a lot of people who may have got lucky with some of these cars and bought at the right time I certainly bought it to drive it, I was never going to put 10k a year on it, but always thought 2.5k to 3k a year was reasonable. But, and it's a big but! I also had in the back of my mind when I bought it that these were rare, I always regretted selling a late 1994 3.6 Turbo n Midnight Blue, look what's happened to those blxxdy things.. So at present due to the very significant appreciation of it, I'm now looking to reduce the mileage to about 1k per year as sad as that sounds, I can already hear the groans of dismay because I'm of the same opinion that it should be driven more. Anyway what I did find was that having travelled over to OPC body shop on a truly dreadful day Saturday Morning just gone which was a 140 mile round trip from where I am, I was met with snow and ice and mostly 1 degree weather that made for interesting driving, when I got back car was filthy and needed a good wash to remove grime etc. what I found after a good 4 stage wash (jet off, snow foam, bucket of warm soapy, then dry) that actually the dirt in the paint on the arches came out and they now look pretty normal and actually don't really need doing, at least not for now, still having front splitter changed, rear clear armour as well, but basically I'm much happier about its condition after all of that and I'm probably going to leave it for the time being. Maybe get it done next year, but will give it a proper wash before deciding... The reality is that the car is now essentially going from something that I had intended to use at a rate of 3k a year ( yearly Europe trip plus local stuff ) to something that will be used less because the market place has pushed the prices up to a point where it's become too valuable to drive. TBH, I'd rather keep the car and do less in it, maybe a euro trip every few years, if I sold it I doubt any owner of these cars is going to rack up significant miles anyway with many of these being exported or going into collections. Also the money would go into something else and I'd never ever get back into one, so this one could be part of my pension, who knows what it could be worth in 20 years, they don't make them like they used to!! Very wise. You should still use it though matey