Will the GT4 ever be available to others?... - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Sorry for odd title, but its not long enough!- my question for those who (like me) didn't get on the waiting list, do you think they will ever come up on the second hand market in a year or so at sensible prices, or do you think the lack of build numbers it will go the way of the GT3 (RS) and just either go up in value or at least hold its current value and therefore not a very attractive buy. Just wondering what people instincts on this?

It may not be next year, but eventually, GT3 and GT4 prices will correct. Don't think it will be a massive jump, but prices for regular 997 GT3s have stopped increasing - give it a few years and inflation will have them back to sensible prices, especially if the 991.2 has a manual option

I am like you did not get an allocation although my letter of intent was acknowledged with the dealer back in Feb, I was recently informed by the dealer that all GT4 2016 models have also been allocated (current model). Do you think after the Cayman facelift has been launched that Porsche will announce a new batch of Cayman GT4's (I know its just wish full thinking, but surely there will be future GT4(come Sept 2016)? Such as in the same way as Porsche introduce a 911 GT3 nearly every year in small numbers.

The prices could go either way................... depending on whether the first ones delivered start catching fire or not!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yes. 2017/18 perhaps but most likely be a 991.2 gt3 first

They are taking loi's now for the next gen GT4 if that helps? Or if desperate, just buy lhd

I thought letter of interest were being stopped after the gt4 allocation mess and loyal customers missing out!

While residuals will be strong, I suspect Porsche will allocate more cars to the UK than people expect. UK is the strongest new car market in Europe currently and all manufacturers are pushing as much stock as possible over here. And thus I really don't see them trading at £20k premium for very long.

While residuals will be strong, I suspect Porsche will allocate more cars to the UK than people expect. UK is the strongest new car market in Europe currently and all manufacturers are pushing as much stock as possible over here. And thus I really don't see them trading at £20k premium for very long.

lboase said: While residuals will be strong, I suspect Porsche will allocate more cars to the UK than people expect. UK is the strongest new car market in Europe currently and all manufacturers are pushing as much stock as possible over here. And thus I really don't see them trading at £20k premium for very long. ^^^ This. Although people are talking about premiums now as it's new, in demand and supposedly limited I can see a fair few people have bought with the aim of flipping. Once a few cars hit the market and stick as people aren't prepared to pay a big premium, sellers will reduce their asking price and prices will reduce quite quickly. This will gain momentum if owners were expecting an easy sell and don't get it. There's also other used options at the price point like the 997.1 GT3 which will help to keep prices down as there's less demand as the prices get higher.

Lots of new cars go through a 'halo' moment, where there's a frenzy to have one - either to speculate and sell on, to be seen to have something sought after, or because it is so good. But, give it a few months and something else will become the next 'must have' and the market will settle down and they'll be widely available. I remember when the original Elises, TTs, SLKs and Boxsters were all being advertised in the Sun Times and Autocar at a premium.

The gt4 will come to us in similar numbers as the 987 spyder and CR those cars never had the same demand as the gt4 and yet they have retained a lot of value compared to the lesser models! Yes short term we will see high premiums £25k ish but I cannot see the gt4 dropping below its retail price any time soon or in the near future regardless of what new toy comes to the market and premiums of list plus £10-15k , which at £75-80k is still good value will be with us for a while! Only if there is some kind of financial crash will you be able to buy one cheaper but even then some may sell of their exotica and buy a gt4 for less money

I have a LoI with my local dealer and they seem fairly confident that Porsche will announce additional car towards the end of this year. Or they could of course just be BSing me!

^ complete opposite to someone I know who had a more honest dealer perhaps?!? Paid a deposit back in Feb. Was held onto for a bit and he pushed for answers, am I aren't I getting one etc. Also went to Porsche for answers. In June was told "allocations may increase slightly by a few extra 10'a across UK (by moving LHD allocation) but run for builds ends in March so as it stands we can't get you one unless someone pulls out do you want deposit back, another car or wait and see? May have another GT4 model in 2017/18 but the GT4 run as is won't be extended beyond planned date for a number of reasons" that would not be divulged. With that in mind I would push your dealer / Porsche for a firm answer Porsche plan builds in advance so of you are getting one next year they would know by now I suspects. If not when will they know roughly?

P155flaps said: Top Username exploitation!!

V8KSN said: The prices could go either way................... depending on whether the first ones delivered start catching fire or not! Didn't seem to harm the 991 GT3 too badly!

itsybitsy said: I thought letter of interest were being stopped after the gt4 allocation mess and loyal customers missing out! Probably dependent on dealer. Mine advised no more LOI's post GT4 debacle.

Hatfield was taking Loi's for the next gen but might have changed now?

My deposit was also paid in Feb, but still no allocation. The consensus seems to be that build will end in March, but I haven't seen many on here quoting a build between Jan-Mar next year, so there is still the potential for more cars to become available for slots during that later period. Anybody's guess really as to what will be available.

Fl0pp3r said: Top Username exploitation!! I don't know what you mean ;-)

GaryF said: My deposit was also paid in Feb, but still no allocation. The consensus seems to be that build will end in March, but I haven't seen many on here quoting a build between Jan-Mar next year, so there is still the potential for more cars to become available for slots during that later period. Anybody's guess really as to what will be available. Yep who knows, they may extend it or roll out a truck load more. I was a Nov build (towards tail end of the UK allocations I believe and mine was confirmed at end of Feb / early March), now a Jan build. At one point (late June I think) when there was a supply issue on a few bits (before CTS was cancelled altogether). I was informed that I couldn't have CS, CTS and LWB together as it pushed my build out past the build window for GT4s and they wouldn't be making them then (beyond March). That was resolved and I was able to keep all 3 and stick to a delayed date of Jan but I think you will find quite a few already have Jan and Feb builds quoted now for similar reasons to me (CTS mainly). Good luck hope you get one and they pull one out of the hat for you.

P155flaps said: ... Good luck hope you get one and they pull one out of the hat for you. Thanks. It'll need to be a big black hat with red stitching.

GaryF said: Thanks. It'll need to be a big black hat with red stitching. Oh bugger, supplier delays for red hat stitching I think

Everyone wants one, nobody can get one, and imo they won't be extending the build run. So expect to pay a premium for a long while. Like 991 GT3.

I don't want either - hope this shortens your wait?

on values, i don't believe in the £25k premium or rather that anyone will pay for it. I'm thinking the market is more like £10k to move.

HokumPokum said: on values, i don't believe in the £25k premium or rather that anyone will pay for it. I'm thinking the market is more like £10k to move. Who knows, but I think it's an easy £25K. Why wouldn't it be when the GT3 was selling at £60K over RRP and still is £30K plus with its chocolate motor and PDK. edit...US market cars are selling for circa $30k-50K over. Edited by m33ufo on Friday 28th August 08:22

yet euro cars appear to be selling close to list

m33ufo said: Demand in the UK has been greater than any other market sector. But for the moment there's nothing else I can conceive of buying to replace it even at £100K. only the car you own atm, how you finding it ? not tempted to keep it over the GT4 ?

Demand in the UK has been greater than any other market sector. But for the moment there's nothing comparable I could purchase to replace it - even at £100K.

PorscheGT4 said: m33ufo said: Demand in the UK has been greater than any other market sector. But for the moment there's nothing else I can conceive of buying to replace it even at £100K. only the car you own atm, how you finding it ? not tempted to keep it over the GT4 ? You're thinking GT3? Sold it....currently have a GTR Track Edition which has cost me £4K in depreciation since purchasing a couple of months ago!! Edited by m33ufo on Friday 28th August 09:09

thought you still had it :-( any way sold right time, must have made £20k ? so covers the GTR thing

I wasn't greedy - definitely advertised too cheaply. Advertised and sold on the same day. Actually made about £14K which I'm not complaining about.

I can't speak for the UK but over here in Austria you can still get a LHD GT4 for list price. Mind you list price is 30% higher than in Germany due to emission taxes. That is why they aren't selling very well here and also why there's still quota available. That being said I believe the GT4 is a bit overhyped at the moment. It's a solid car and almost peerless on the market at it's price point but that doesn't mean it will stay this way. You're fooling yourself if you think it's the "last of it's kind", Porsche and other manufacturers have taken note of the success and demand for such an enthusiast, driving-focused package. All it takes is a 981.2 GT4 with the same N/A engine, shorter gearing and a hydraulic steering rack (yes, unlikely) and suddenly that's going to be the toy everybody is lusting after.

Hardly a balanced discussion as those who already have one are naturally going to say "no more being built" and "worth the £25k premium". I'm not convinced I share that view, but would likely say the same if I had been fortunate enough to get one.

mdianuk said: Hardly a balanced discussion as those who already have one are naturally going to say "no more being built" and "worth the £25k premium". I'm not convinced I share that view, but would likely say the same if I had been fortunate enough to get one. £25k is a base figures by a view adverts, who knows what they will make and who cares really ? if it break even it's free motoring which is great :-) as for cars made, again a moot point if they make 200 or 250, I for one don't see figures to back up 250+ cars made, but we will find out in about 2 years the total number. thing is it's a GT car in manual and the only one Porsche make now which by some mark is lapping faster than a 458 or R8 v10 plus which is crazy. I can see people flipping 997.2 GT3 and 997.1 GT3 if they have made £30k on them paying £25k overs for a GT4 as they would still be up at the end of the day. I would NOT pay £100k for one, but then I have got one at list. but I am sure some will pay who earn £20k a week who fancy driving the newest thing, it's pocket change to the rich. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Friday 28th August 10:29

All this anticipation, going a bit OTT with my spec and it turning out to be a rare beast that's faster than a 458 Italia has completely changed my mind about just leaving it on the street in front of my flat in London like I do with the 981 S it's replacing. I'm going to have to find somewhere secure to park it and buy a second car now. Man maths GT4 low-depreciation will offset the cost of the parking space which I think will run somewhere around £200/month near me.

HokumPokum said: on values, i don't believe in the £25k premium or rather that anyone will pay for it. I'm thinking the market is more like £10k to move. I think it will be more.Look at the premiums on the likes the amg gt ,and this is a car you can get easily ( 6 months if you order one now) .

franki68 said: HokumPokum said: on values, i don't believe in the £25k premium or rather that anyone will pay for it. I'm thinking the market is more like £10k to move. I think it will be more.Look at the premiums on the likes the amg gt ,and this is a car you can get easily ( 6 months if you order one now) . The yellow comfort spec GT4 at 911 Sport ap £106k appears to have sold last week.

anonymous said: [redacted] Sorry, I don't mean they switch production at the last minute, rather that they will have seen the strength of demand in the UK (both specifically for the GT4 and wider new car demand) and planned for production accordingly. So for the GT 4, the UK will receive a larger proportion of a car which will be built in larger numbers than people originally thought, Porsche included. I think this applies to other Marques also. To OP's question, if the above plays out I doubt premiums over list will last too long and he'll be able to buy one in the second hand market. Good news all round.

lboase said: Sorry, I don't mean they switch production at the last minute, rather that they will have seen the strength of demand in the UK (both specifically for the GT4 and wider new car demand) and planned for production accordingly. So for the GT 4, the UK will receive a larger proportion of a car which will be built in larger numbers than people originally thought, Porsche included. I think this applies to other Marques also. To OP's question, if the above plays out I doubt premiums over list will last too long and he'll be able to buy one in the second hand market. Good news all round. As far as I know this is not correct, more cars have not been allocated to the UK. All that happened was that 2016 build cars were brought forward into 2015 orders. No more cars next year.

anonymous said: [redacted] Sorry, I don't mean they switch production at the last minute, rather that they will have seen the strength of demand in the UK (both specifically for the GT4 and wider new car demand) and planned for production accordingly. So for the GT 4, the UK will receive a larger proportion of a car which will be built in larger numbers than people originally thought, Porsche included. I think this applies to other Marques also. To OP's question, if the above plays out I doubt premiums over list will last too long and he'll be able to buy one in the second hand market. Good news all round.

DMC2 said: lboase said: Sorry, I don't mean they switch production at the last minute, rather that they will have seen the strength of demand in the UK (both specifically for the GT4 and wider new car demand) and planned for production accordingly. So for the GT 4, the UK will receive a larger proportion of a car which will be built in larger numbers than people originally thought, Porsche included. I think this applies to other Marques also. To OP's question, if the above plays out I doubt premiums over list will last too long and he'll be able to buy one in the second hand market. Good news all round. As far as I know this is not correct, more cars have not been allocated to the UK. All that happened was that 2016 build cars were brought forward into 2015 orders. No more cars next year. This is correct.

lboase said: Sorry, I don't mean they switch production at the last minute, rather that they will have seen the strength of demand in the UK (both specifically for the GT4 and wider new car demand) and planned for production accordingly. So for the GT 4, the UK will receive a larger proportion of a car which will be built in larger numbers than people originally thought, Porsche included. I think this applies to other Marques also. To OP's question, if the above plays out I doubt premiums over list will last too long and he'll be able to buy one in the second hand market. Good news all round. Was the source that from the factory / supply chain team? U.S. was also massively over subscribed and no extra cars going there? It in their interest to limit supply heavily / be way over subscribed for halo cars of each model (which is just what they do) to generate a buzz around the brand. Edited by P155flaps on Friday 28th August 19:43

No doubt in my mind that there will be a follow up model, Porsche are just to cynical when it comes to a marketing opportunity and selling cars. It will probably be something like a Cayman GT4 R with similar mods as the 987 Cayman R. Few more horse power, weight stripping, etc. Doubt they would attach the RS moniker but they did do that with 997 GT2, so who knows. We are seeing a repeat of the Black Editions in the current range. So, I am sure there will be some sort of follow up model, Porsche don't stand still.

DMC2 said: As far as I know this is not correct, more cars have not been allocated to the UK. All that happened was that 2016 build cars were brought forward into 2015 orders. No more cars next year. Correct, the 2016 cars were brought forward to fill the gaps left by those ordering special colours that are now due in 2016. I'm told no more to come by some dealers, yet others are still allowing me to leave a deposit. Spent some time at my local OPC this morning; had a 918 in the car park (for sale) with about 5 reps around it trying to work out how to put the roof on. Looked simply stunning and after that, looking at anything else seemed boring

mdianuk said: DMC2 said: As far as I know this is not correct, more cars have not been allocated to the UK. All that happened was that 2016 build cars were brought forward into 2015 orders. No more cars next year. Correct, the 2016 cars were brought forward to fill the gaps left by those ordering special colours that are now due in 2016. I'm told no more to come by some dealers, yet others are still allowing me to leave a deposit. Spent some time at my local OPC this morning; had a 918 in the car park (for sale) with about 5 reps around it trying to work out how to put the roof on. Looked simply stunning and after that, looking at anything else seemed boring Did they remember to take the wind deflector off, that's the small wing type gismo that clips onto the top of the windscreen : Not entirely sure what it does and not my car by the way, I do agree they look stunning though.

Sandy59 said: Did they remember to take the wind deflector off, that's the small wing type gismo that clips onto the top of the windscreen : Not entirely sure what it does and not my car by the way, I do agree they look stunning though. It redirects some the airflow to keep exhaust gasses from flowing into the cabin. A bit of a design flaw that was fixed with this little wing relatively late into the development phase, not the most elegant solution but it works.

Ah, so nothing to do with looking after the occupants hair do's - thanks. Apologies, back to the GT4 talk :

av185 said: franki68 said: HokumPokum said: on values, i don't believe in the £25k premium or rather that anyone will pay for it. I'm thinking the market is more like £10k to move. I think it will be more.Look at the premiums on the likes the amg gt ,and this is a car you can get easily ( 6 months if you order one now) . The yellow comfort spec GT4 at 911 Sport ap £106k appears to have sold last week. That was a bit of an odd spec too. At least I thought it was. Mine's still spec able so easily £50K over Edited by m33ufo on Saturday 29th August 22:41

^ after weds it seems like that may be 50p not 50k http://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/890925-met-with-and...

Read that yesterday. You'll have to explain your logic - have I missed something?

One guy over at pff.de wrote that Porsche will announce a manual 991 GT3 and PDK GT4 (hardware of the PDK, software of the PDK-S) tomorrow. He deleted the posting shortly after. Should be an interesting day tomorrow! I find it unlikely but the timing would be just right to not steal the limelight from the 991.2 launch in two weeks (Frankfurt IAA).

OP you may be in luck... http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-feed-porsche/mo...

lboase said: OP you may be in luck... http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-feed-porsche/mo... That article loses any credibility by simply stating 129 cars for the UK....

av185 said: That article loses any credibility by simply stating 129 cars for the UK.... If they double the allocation there will still be a waiting list so will make no difference in reality . East London opc a month back had 25 on waiting list for gt4 with no more allocation FYG

V8KSN said: The prices could go either way................... depending on whether the first ones delivered start catching fire or not! Hammond....is that you? Actually, I think Hammond should reconsider his love of 911's and drift over to a Cayman. If you have seen him and Clarkson in their Top Gear special which I think was called 'The perfect Road trip' or summit similar, there is a fantastic piece about the cayman. It goes up against a lambo. Go watch it on Netflix, or You Tube. Enjoy!

av185 said: The yellow comfort spec GT4 at 911 Sport ap £106k appears to have sold last week. My dealership told me Porsche GB went after said customer having tracked him down choosing to not honour it the order and actually ruling him out of any such order in the future. They are serious about potential resale for profit and aim to protect the brand. In my experience the premium car manufacturers are going to great lengths to achieve this. Range Rover ask you to now sign a document effectively preventing this kind of enterprise.

screwloose said: av185 said: The yellow comfort spec GT4 at 911 Sport ap £106k appears to have sold last week. My dealership told me Porsche GB went after said customer having tracked him down choosing to not honour it the order and actually ruling him out of any such order in the future. They are serious about potential resale for profit and aim to protect the brand. In my experience the premium car manufacturers are going to great lengths to achieve this. Range Rover ask you to now sign a document effectively preventing this kind of enterprise. The irony http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

screwloose said: My dealership told me Porsche GB went after said customer having tracked him down choosing to not honour it the order and actually ruling him out of any such order in the future. They are serious about potential resale for profit and aim to protect the brand. In my experience the premium car manufacturers are going to great lengths to achieve this. Range Rover ask you to now sign a document effectively preventing this kind of enterprise. Hmmm not sure about that . Id have thought they would have a quiet word with the supplying dealer not the individual. Markets after all can go down as well as up Have you the original link? tks Edited by Scooty100 on Thursday 17th September 08:19

screwloose said: Range Rover ask you to now sign a document effectively preventing this kind of enterprise. I was told under EU ruling manufacturers cannot do this!

screwloose said: My dealership told me Porsche GB went after said customer having tracked him down choosing to not honour it the order and actually ruling him out of any such order in the future. They are serious about potential resale for profit and aim to protect the brand. In my experience the premium car manufacturers are going to great lengths to achieve this. Range Rover ask you to now sign a document effectively preventing this kind of enterprise. Nice idea and Porsche are largely against this, but there is absolutely nothing they can do if a buyer takes ownership, drives it for a few days and then decides to sell it. There is no evidence then that it wasn't due to change in circumstance, though we all know it is likely to just be flipping. I think most manufacturers prevent a car built from being resold for a premium if unregistered, i.e. new, but the easy solution then is for a dealer principle to just get a mate to become the owner, then sell it via the same method. MB 1 said: The irony http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Case in point, though I'm still partially of the view that if the buyer had moved abroad, they knew they wouldn't be able to retain the car, therefore should have cancelled, not registered it and then put it up for sale at a premium; but who can deny an opportunist!

960Spyder said: MB 1 said: The irony http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... What's ironic? I ordered car, moved abroad and still taken delivery. The cars for sale, but it doesn't need to be. I can either put it in the garage and use it a little bit or sell it. If your house value goes up, do you sell it for what you paid for it? Porsche never got in touch when all the other cars I bought went down in value, so I doubt they'll make that call for the one that does ;-) Edited by 960Spyder on Saturday 19th September 10:21 Er, no problem for me? Hats off to you, if someone offers me 30k over list for mine I think it will be off too! My point was that the poster above said Porsche were throwing a fit about someone selling their car for profit, and I believed yours was for sale by an OPC. My local has a 991 GT3 in for 30k over list. I really don't think they care as long as they are making money.

Red GT4 for sale in OPC Glasgow as well now.

red GT4 has gone from OPC network - white one at Wilmslow is only one for sale at OPC at approx £103k