981 six cylinder residuals - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

So we all know the four cylinder versions are coming, and it's probably fair to say a lot of people on this forum are not thrilled about this and want the sixes to stay. However... It's got me wondering, outside of opinion on this forum, is there any historical evidence that the current 981s might hold their value better than, for example, the 987s? Has anyone been following values from any other performance cars that have had their engines downsized, is there any truth in the last of the larger engines holding their values better (I'm thinking Audi RS and BMW M)?

The 4.2 normally aspirated RS Audis are sought after..... the v6 forced induction motors are not as 'nice'.

You could even say the 987.2 could hold its value better than a 981 likewise 997.2 better value retention than a 991! another to remember the 981 was built in larger numbers than the 987.2! Long term my monies on the 987.2

Very interesting... Are you suggesting that the 981's production numbers are the only reason for a 987 possibly being a safer bet, or is there something tangibly worse about the 981s that makes the earlier ones more desirable? (I should say I'm asking from a position of not historically knowing a lot about Porsches, but currently open to buying a used 981 Cayman S in the near-ish future.)

if its depreciation that is a buying issue then you need to go with the 987/2 Spyder. that is at the moment the Boxster that is holding or climbing in value. with only about 200 Spyders in the UK is realy is the only safe bet

If you look at the 993, the last year heavily optioned, near zero mileage examples are commanding huge prices. But how long will that continue. The cars of our youth that we couldn't afford then but only dream about are what the older folks are buying. But as we die off, who will there be lusting after them? Will this also be true of the 6-cylinder models from Porsche? Once the car mags show that the lap times of a 4-cylinder turbo are less than the older models, how many will vote for nostalgia? Buy for enjoyment, not for investment.

To be fair I was just broadly interested to know how people thought values might go, rather than using it to decide which model to get myself. I actually find myself somewhere in the middle of this debate, inasmuch as I currently drive a four cylinder turbo and shan't pretend I don't enjoy its ability to just launch up to great speed with minimal work. Also I'll freely admit that I often just want to pop to the shops or visit a friend without being at 10/10ths, so I have no issue with electric steering, etc, as I think these are sensible compromises to be had for a road car. However despite all that, a large amount of the appeal of a Cayman to me is to have a couple of years in something with more than four cylinders, as there's no doubt there will be fewer and fewer options for this as time goes on (at least for half sensible money). I also like to do a couple of track days a year, and love the idea of being able to fully let the NA engine rev. It's certainly going to be interesting to see how the 981.2s are received when they land.

anonymous said: [redacted] It doesn't, of course, but I mean that I have no issue with the manufacturers' choice of moving to electric assistance for the majority of my driving (presuming it's not so light it feels entirely disconnected, like modern city cars). So therefore, like we're speculating future Porsche customers won't care about having a F4, steering assistance is not something for me that would influence a car purchase decision, as long as it feels sensibly weighty, etc.

I agree with cmoose. As for prices, my 2010 987.2 S depreciated by almost nothing over 2 years and 18,000 miles. I think prices on those cars are very firm indeed at the moment and may hold up well. The 987 is a more 'modern' feeling car than the 986 (and, to me, the 997) which is great for most people. 981 takes it a step too far for me, but I think people like me and cmoose are a tiny minority.

Anyone know how many 987.2 cars were registered.

Cannot remember exact numbers but I am sure more 981 were built 2012/13 than whole of 987.2 production(2009-11)and production of 981 at volume has carried on to date! Remember also 987.2 was built in less volume due to the post 2008/9 slump! Same can be said for 997.2 and manuals were less than a third of that production run!

At the end of the day ( gosh did I really say that?) I have been privileged to own a number of my 'dream' cars. Those vehicles that, as a boy I would always like to own. In 1990 I was in a position to change my Sierra XR4x4 (don't) for another vehicle. I was very taken with the new (then) E36? coupe BMW. Finances were tight and the dealer offered me a cracking deal on a 318 - the four cylinder car. I refused that, and took a lower spec on the 320. It was a six cylinder BMW. For me all BMs are sixes, or not at all; I do not WANT(lust after)a four cylinder BM. Lots of other manufacurers produce charismatic fours............ Fourteen years later, I had the opportunity to complete a dream and buy a flat 6 Porsche, not a flat 4 but a normally aspirated flat 6. Just sums it up for me. BMs - s6; Porsche f6,Ferrari v8 and of course Sierra 2.9 v6. And if you like Ford XR/ST s4. Friend of mine has a Stag......V8. Ok not Triumph but a Rover transplant. It is still a car I like. Another acquaintance has replaced (or prior to purchase someone...)the v8 with a s6 Triumph lump. Ok, a nice side step to 'issues' BUT it is not a Stag............. IMHO Edited by Bennachie on Sunday 30th August 21:01

At the end of the day ( gosh did I really say that?) I have been privileged to own a number of my 'dream' cars. Those vehicles that, as a boy I would always like to own. In 1990 I was in a position to change my Sierra XR4x4 (don't) for another vehicle. I was very taken with the new (then) E36? coupe BMW. Finances were tight and the dealer offered me a cracking deal on a 318 - the four cylinder car. I refused that, and took a lower spec on the 320. It was a six cylinder BMW. For me all BMs are sixes, or not at all; I do not WANT(lust after)a four cylinder BM. Lots of other manufacurers produce charismatic fours............ Fourteen years later, I had the opportunity to complete a dream and buy a flat 6 Porsche, not a flat 4 but a normally aspirated flat 6. Just sums it up for me. BMs - s6; Porsche f6,Ferrari v8 and of course Sierra 2.9 v6. And if you like Ford XR/ST s4. Friend of mine has a Stag......V8. Ok not Triumph but a Rover transplant. It is still a car I like. Another acquaintance has replaced (or prior to purchase someone...)the v8 with a s6 Triumph lump. Ok, a nice side step to 'issues' BUT it is not a Stag............. IMHO Edited by Bennachie on Sunday 30th August 21:07

Bennachie said: At the end of the day ( gosh did I really say that?) I have been privileged to own a number of my 'dream' cars. Those vehicles that, as a boy I would always like to own. In 1990 I was in a position to change my Sierra XR4x4 (don't) for another vehicle. I was very taken with the new (then) E36? coupe BMW. Finances were tight and the dealer offered me a cracking deal on a 318 - the four cylinder car. I refused that, and took a lower spec on the 320. It was a six cylinder BMW. For me all BMs are sixes, or not at all; I do not WANT(lust after)a four cylinder BM. Lots of other manufacurers produce charismatic fours............ Fourteen years later, I had the opportunity to complete a dream and buy a flat 6 Porsche, not a flat 4 but a normally aspirated flat 6. Just sums it up for me. BMs - s6; Porsche f6,Ferrari v8 and of course Sierra 2.9 v6. And if you like Ford XR/ST s4. Friend of mine has a Stag......V8. Ok not Triumph but a Rover transplant. It is still a car I like. Another acquaintance has replaced (or prior to purchase someone...)the v8 with a s6 Triumph lump. Ok, a nice side step to 'issues' BUT it is not a Stag............. IMHO Edited by Bennachie on Sunday 30th August 21:07 I think that categorising a car as having X cylinders is a bit narrow. "Real" Ferraris HAD to have 12 cylinders - and having 6 or 8 was definitely not what afficionados would accept as Ferraris - indeed they were christened Dinos, and only were called Ferraris after some years. Porsches (956) had 4 cylinders long long before they had 6 (and UNassisted steering). You might well argue that Jaguars should have IL 6s - they did for a large part of their history. etc etc All that said I have no doubt that there will be enough who will pour scorn on the Turbo 4s (however good they may be) to aid residuals on the 981.1 and 987.2s. The 987.2 will have a following because of the steering - the 981.1 because it is the last of the 6s. However, unless the 981.2 is a real dog I can't see either previous model becoming a classic - there are simply too many of them. Spyders and GT4s are a diffent matter because of their rarity. It's a shame that rarity rather than genuine desirability has more influence on value in the classic car market, but that's the way it is.

Correct. To me, a Jag has to have 6 pots. I have no interest in a four cylinder diesel Jag, no matter how 'brilliant' it is. Yes, to me, a Ferrari has to have 12 or 8 cylinders ( the argument - if it is that - was simplified in the interests of reduced typing in the original post. MY Porsche is a 6 cylinder car, as is MY BMW. I would struggle to buy a Range Rover with less than 8 pots and four wheel drive..... Nothing about steering, suspension design etc (all of which can be classed as someone's critera) again, IMHO

anonymous said: [redacted] itsybitsy said: Cannot remember exact numbers but I am sure more 981 were built 2012/13 than whole of 987.2 production(2009-11)and production of 981 at volume has carried on to date! Remember also 987.2 was built in less volume due to the post 2008/9 slump! Same can be said for 997.2 and manuals were less than a third of that production run! Hmm...interesting, I must admit I don't see many 987.2's running around that would explain why then.

About 2,000 Cayman registered in UK up to 2013 and 2.8k Cayman S and since 2013 another 0.4 Cayman and 0.5 Cayman S..................... Means about 5,500 Caymans of all type registered in uK. 987.1/987.2/981; which suggests many more 987 Caymans(caymen/caymeni) in the wild than 981. Please note that this is 'information' and IS NOT intended to suggest strong/weak residuals or anything else. 28 981 Cayman registered in q1 of 2015 13 981 Cayman S registered in q1 of 2015 202 981 Cayman GTS registered in q1 of 2015 Edited by Bennachie on Monday 31st August 19:55

Bennachie said: About 2,000 Cayman registered in UK up to 2013 and 2.8k Cayman S and since 2013 another 0.4 Cayman and 0.5 Cayman S..................... Means about 5,500 Caymans of all type registered in uK. 987.1/987.2/981; which suggests many more 987 Caymans(caymen/caymeni) in the wild than 981. Please note that this is 'information' and IS NOT intended to suggest strong/weak residuals or anything else. 28 981 Cayman registered in q1 of 2015 13 981 Cayman S registered in q1 of 2015 202 981 Cayman GTS registered in q1 of 2015 Edited by Bennachie on Monday 31st August 19:55 Looks like the GTS is the most popular - seems like an S might be more exclusive!! Ironic really - pick my CGTS up tomorrow, so Q3 probably high numbers as well!

Bennachie said: About 2,000 Cayman registered in UK up to 2013 and 2.8k Cayman S and since 2013 another 0.4 Cayman and 0.5 Cayman S..................... Means about 5,500 Caymans of all type registered in uK. 987.1/987.2/981; which suggests many more 987 Caymans(caymen/caymeni) in the wild than 981. Please note that this is 'information' and IS NOT intended to suggest strong/weak residuals or anything else. 28 981 Cayman registered in q1 of 2015 13 981 Cayman S registered in q1 of 2015 202 981 Cayman GTS registered in q1 of 2015 Edited by Bennachie on Monday 31st August 19:55 Where does this data come from? Would be interested to see the split of Gen 2 cars.

But 987.2 were stopped being made in early 2012! When I have time I will go in to DVLA records and post but I think your figures are way out! Where are the numbers for the 981 2012 ,2013 and 2014! Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 31st August 21:10

quick look (rough count)shows 987.2 cayman s , cayman r and black edition both manual and pdk = circa 1000 cars but this may include a few 987.1 that were registered new early 2009 981 cayman s including gts(2014 = 213 cars)both pdk and manual to the end of 2014 = 1300 cars. so I would say over some 500 cars will be registered in 2015 going by 2014 numbers so double 981 cayman s/gts by the end of production in early 2016 to 987.2 cayman s,r,black edition! source DVLA cars first registered new by make and model VEH 0160 Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 31st August 21:59

[quote] 202 981 Cayman GTS registered in q1 of 2015 Edited by Bennachie on Monday 31st August 19:55 [/quote] just checked and only 45 pdk/manual gts registered in q1 2015

511 Cayman s Pdk were registered new in 2013 alone!

Taking this forward, I've had a quick into the stats over coffee this morning. Analyst by trade, analyst by nature, to paraphrase. Overall total of Cayman sold between 2005 to 2015 (also, a decade of Cayman already?!): 11,254 Overall total of Cayman 987.1 (2005-2008): 5,233 Overall total of Cayman 987.2 (2009-2011): 2,521 Overall total of Cayman 981 (2012-2015): 3,500 There's 82 Tiptronics registered in '09, so they're definitely 987.1, so revise the total of 987.2 accordingly: 2,439 A bit more work required to gain some more granularity, but my coffee's gone cold.

anonymous said: [redacted] No CC data available in this database, which is the VEH0160 as referenced by a previous poster, making that a little bit more difficult to discern. But you're right, there'll be a bleed into the 981 around 2012 as well.

Early figures missing because there is no way of telling what model was registered in 2012/13 as there is overlap....... A degree of interpretation is required here. 2015 figures are accurate for q1 981. Only trying to help..............

Bennachie said: Early figures missing because there is no way of telling what model was registered in 2012/13 as there is overlap....... A degree of interpretation is required here. 2015 figures are accurate for q1 981. Only trying to help.............. I dont doubt the q1 15 numbers. Infact it would make sense, as the GTS is a 981.1 run out model and alot of people would ordered in H2 14 would recieve in Q1 and so on... Once you overlay the previous years for the base and S, when they where on sale for - I suspect they tower above the GTS in terms of UK production numberss. Happy to be proved wrong. Great car in any guise.

There won't be many overlapping 987.2 in 2012 as most were pre regd late 2011 to make way for 981 so may be less than 10 cars and I believe only the cr or black edition left the factory early 2012 ( Boxster production finished June 2011)which are mentioned seperatly on veh0160. This is also the same case early 2009 for the gen1! The reason I know this is because at the end of 2008 and 2011 is when I went on the hunt for deals on last gen. new cars with discounts ! But I still believe at the end of production of the 981 there will be twice as many registered over 987.2. This also applies to the 997.2 vs 991. So as said before the manual 987.2 and 997.2 will be the sought after cars in the coming years The q2 2015 comes out in couple of weeks if interested

itsybitsy said: There won't be many overlapping 987.2 in 2012 as most were pre regd late 2011 to make way for 981 so may be less than 10 cars and I believe only the cr or black edition left the factory early 2012 ( Boxster production finished June 2011)which are mentioned seperatly on veh0160. This is also the same case early 2009 for the gen1! The reason I know this is because at the end of 2008 and 2011 is when I went on the hunt for deals on last gen. new cars with discounts ! But I still believe at the end of production of the 981 there will be twice as many registered over 987.2. This also applies to the 997.2 vs 991. So as said before the manual 987.2 and 997.2 will be the sought after cars in the coming years The q2 2015 comes out in couple of weeks if interested I dont follow that at all. If the 987.2/997.2 were rare, then you would have a point. But there will still be plenty of them around (albeit not as many as 991s).

I don't say rare like 987.2 Spyder rare I say low volume like 993 low volume which was also made in down turn years!

never many 987.2 S models to choose from I find in the 2nd hand market and at OPC's only 7 cars.

PorscheGT4 said: never many 987.2 S models to choose from I find in the 2nd hand market and at OPC's only 7 cars. And you try looking for a post 2010 low miles manual (less than 20k)997.2 rare as rocking horse pooh!only ever a couple at anyone time at OPC's and usually snapped up quiet quickly

re potential residuals of 981.1 being impacted by the introduction of 981.2, my interest (I'm looking to buy something in a year) was raised by an article on Car magazine website .... " CAR understands that the 981.2 relaunch will also include the option, in some markets, to position the Cayman as the entry-level, cheaper model for the first time. The move is designed to increase awareness and boost sales; the soft-top has consistently out-sold the coupe ever since launch a decade ago " Goes back to the "911 convertible more expensive than coupe, "cayman convertible" cheaper than coupe old chestnut and not an option you can see Porsche GB taking in a buoyant UK market but interesting none the less

Does anyone know the 987.2 built numbers? The R must the rare followed by the S?

As it's not an air cooled 911 or a GT2/3/Turbo 996+ it'll do what Boxsters and Caymans have always done and just go down. Rare sought after models aside (GT4/Spyder/R) do seem to hold their value better admittedly. None have yet to be seen to appreciate though. I suspect we'd have to wait as long as you've had to for the 944/968/928 (20 years +) before they become desirable.

juansolo said: I suspect we'd have to wait as long as you've had to for the 944/968/928 (20 years +) before they become desirable. ^^ This. Almost no car resists the drag of depreciation. And by that time everyone forgets that inflation has eaten the value of money so a £25k car that's "still worth £25k" has actually dropped a huge amount of value.