Dyno for the Agency Power exhaust

should be up shortly. I think you guys will like what you see and the price is even better!

What a tease. This is not right.

So how much did Kor slip the dyno operator to get you good results?

I don't know, but I did enjoy the pepsi they gave me while they "calibrated" the dyno.

Oh no all my secrets are out...

Dang, you are taking after Ken too much! Both of you post new thread teasers!!! But, we are grateful one we get the real data--for your efforts.

I am waiting patiently as well, Dan was out of town and told me he would have it up tonight so.......

Dyno sheet provided via PM for entertainment purposes only.

What is all incorporated with the dyno run? I know I asked before if this includes headers and Evo intake and desnork but I can't remember what you said. Were the runs done back to back or where they on different days? Ok I went back and read stock headers. Wow, I wonder what the case would be with a set of aftermarket headers. hmmm

Flyer you can see the times on the dyno report. Looks about an hour apart and you can also see the other important weather elements as well so you can make some judgement of the difference. Was this performed by the seller/installer or an independent (not that should matter)?

Well something isn't right with that dyno chart. You have a Cayman "S" according to your profile, but the rear wheel hp looks like it peaked at 220-something stock and 243'ish with the exhaust. Given that almost every single dyno run I've seen on a stock Cayman on a Mustang or DynoJet dyno places the stock peak hp in the 260-270 range your car is either WAY down on horsepower (take it back and get a refund) or the calibration settings on this dyno are way off. The other thing that makes my highly skeptical of these results is the fact that the best I've been able to achieve with multiple exhaust configurations is 21-22rwhp gain and that INCLUDES HEADERS with race cats, I see no way that a catback system only can achieve those same numbers, especially as a percentage of the overall HP numbers. Let's look at it this way. I dyno'd at 277 before my Milltek complete exhaust system was installed and 298 after, a gain of 21hp at the rear wheels. A 7.58% increase in power. Remember a complete system including headers, getting rid of the highly restrictive factory manifolds. You dynod 220 then 243 for a supposed 23hp gain at the rear wheels, however, in your instance that is a 10.45% gain in power. And in your instance you still had the restrictive factory manifolds, this was catback only. I know of no car anywhere that gains over 10% power from a catback exhaust install alone. Again, I find these results to be highly suspect and would like to see a separate independent dyno test.

Yeah an hour apart but on different days, about a week apart. NOt that it matters all that much. I agree your stock pull seems very low, did you not notice and question this?

You will have to direct your specifics to vivid. I cannot adequately answer your questions. I'm sure Dan would be happy to chat with you.

OK I reread your post this morning and this is kind of funny. Someone puts out a catback exhaust that is a fraction of the cost of AWE/MILLTEK/FABSPEED using the latest high quality 321 alloy, fit and finish is perfect, sound is cool, better than stock, improved throttle response and it offers a substantial gain and your first response is to call bullshit? I think you are right and you should stick to paying 5K for the other systems to get similar gains. :banana: I respect that you have tried other systems and what not, but you get paid for those and I have zero interest in AP selling their stuff. I am only a messenger of sorts but I assure you if I did not feel the car was noticeably stronger I would say so, I guessed it was around 15hp before ever seeing the dyno. If you really feel like you have a legitimate question, call Dan/Brett@vividracing and talk to those guys about it, I know they are interested in sponsoring as well and I think you will find a couple of serious car guys that will be more than happy to chat with you. I'm just happy I got a nice exhaust with definite results and didn't need a second mortgage to pay for it.

I think the skepticism in this case is valid. As you all know by now I am a huge skeptic about power gains from most mods on the Cayman S engine. I appologize if I hurt any feelings: - The dyno you've provided is very very low. A 300hp car should not measure at 218whp. - The dyno you've provided has been smoothed. See where it says "Filter Value"? Smoothing a little is normal, but it also can hide differences or magnify differences when doing comparissons. - The dates on the two runs are 7 days apart. - The shop that installed the product did the dyno? This gives them a bias, of course they want to show you that it provided a performance gain. I commend you for trying to provide some scientific information on this forum. Certainly better than butt-dyno comments and vague stories. But nonetheless I'm afraid that the dyno here is kind of meaningless.

So any dyno where an "interested party" reports the results are suspect? That would call into question most of the stuff I have seen here. If you can get optimum dyno results in 100 degree weather with 10% humidity you let me know. If these dyno results were as animated as you insinuate them to be I would have already known and would have said so. Not the case, the pipes make noticeably more power. The piece speaks for itself, sounds good, improved throttle response, noticeable gain, quality construction and fitment and at a great price.

Douge, I'm very tempted just to close this topic because it is turning into an advertisement for the aforementioned company. From prior postings of yours I believe you stated that they wanted to run the system another time because they didn't see the gains they wanted to see the first time. Now, suddenly they have better gains then anyone else out there and a dyno chart that is completely out of whack. I'm not saying they did this intentionally, it could be an honest mistake, but given that Agency Power is the US distributor for a Chinese-made exhaust system and the numbers are out of whack I just can't put much stock in this system until I see some independent verification. None of my exhaust articles have used HP numbers generated by the vendors, in fact I was very specific with Milltek, AWE, and Capristo that I am going to run their systems on a Mustang 4 Wheel dyno at Imagine Auto that is pretty unforgiving and they may not like what they see and to their credit each of them has said "no problem". This may be a situation where a company is trying to pass off a Chinese-knock-off exhaust via this site through you and you don't realize you are being used as their mouthpiece, or again, it may be an innocent mistake, but until I run one of these on the IA Mustang dyno or Tommasson runs one up at Parr in the UK, or some other independent verification the chart and the numbers simply don't add up. I'm not going to call the vendor listed above unless they are willing to become a sponsor and have their products undergo some independent testing. If they are interested in going that route I am happy to speak with them about it.

I am not interested in carrying on a debate, they are on my car and I like them. I was skeptical as well even though I had dealt with them in the past and had been happy with their service. They never made a claim as to what kind of power the system made and told me if I didn't like them they would take them off and replace the OEM at no expense to me. I had nothing to lose and feel like today I got a very exceptional piece at a good price. You can delete the thread, but I am excited about my car and my new mod and like everyone else here I want to share my experiences and quite frankly if finding a good deal and sharing it with the rest of the group isn't contributing to the site than what is?

Actually I am sure you are a fine judge of product and that its a fine exhaust. Good welds, materials, and design are all that you really need to create a quality cat-back exhaust. If it sounds good and you are confident that the power is greater or equal to stock, then I am sure you did well buying it. The country that the exhaust is made in has nothing to do with the quality of the product and frankly I find that people who say that all chinese made products are inferior are generally ignorant for holding such a stereotype. You can set up a state of the art factory and get access to high quality materials in any country in the world. I am not attempting to call into question your own observations or the quality of the product. Good for you for posting your satisfaction with the exhaust. I would do the same. I am simply saying that the posted dyno sheet is far from the most fair or accurate I have ever seen. On a side note, I have put cars - turbocharged, red-hot intercooled cars - on the dyno on hot days and not seen such unexpectedly low results. Please do enjoy your exhaust and I think recommending it to people based on your observations and your own experience is totally 100% valid. But I don't think that the dyno is "evidence" of the real world performance of the exhaust. Also sometimes I think that this forum is too quick to censor threads when talking about non-sponsored products.

Thanks Kor. If the dyno is the only point of contention than I will take it down. I won't be putting my old exhaust on and doing another dyno to prove anything as its not really that important to me although it is fun to say "Hey look at this".

Did you take any pictures? I would like to see what it looks like.

Yeah, if all Chinese mainland production were krap ('k' to get by the censor..), we'd all be screwed. Even the Taiwanese have been outsourcing production to the mainland gangbusters for a few years now. Nearly all computer mainboards are made there now, including some high end stuff. The two Sun x4100's I just bought have mainland-made mainboards for example. That said, mainland production is very spotty. It's an industrial wild west, with very little regulatory supervision, particularly regarding intellectual property, component/material/build quality, and worker conditions, not to mention environmental impact mitigation practices. There are entrepreneurs doing good things there, but my impression (I am hardly alone in this) is that they are outnumbered by irresponsible actors.

I don't have any but they took pictures of everything (install) and they are on the website or there is a thread at 6speedonline with all the info.

It looks like people are getting derailed in this topic thread. First off, I never said Chinese items weren't any good. What I was referring to is something that was pointed out to me: "Agency Power is their private label Chinese made brand, even though on the Agency Power site they swear that the two companies are not related. Funny how they share the exact same mailing address, even the suite number." Agency Power can be found at: Corporate Headquarters: Agency Power Industries LLC 465 E. Chilton Dr. Ste 1 Chandler, AZ 85225 USA VividRacing can be found at: Vivid Distributing LLC 465 East Chilton Dr. Suite #1 Chandler, Arizona 85225 USA My concern is not that the product originates from China but that either someone is trying to hide this fact or hide their association with the Chinese manufacturer. Why that is I don't know, but this was simply another concern among several that I had with the posting of the dyno results and related information. For the record a Chinese exhaust may be as good or better than a German or Italian or American one, but the only way to know is to independently test it. Agency Power and VividRacing are already advertising these gains as real, from their website: "Vivid Racing recently tested the new Agency Power prototype exhaust system on a Porsche Cayman S. The all 321 stainless steel exhaust provided an excellent sound to the vehicle and added quite a large gain in horsepower and torque on the Mustang dyno. Putting down 23 rear wheel horsepower over the baseline and gaining 11ft/lbs of torque." It was also pointed out to me that "the original post stated they wanted to rerun the tests on a cooler day, as the 'after' test was on a much hotter day than the 'before' baseline and didn't produce the numbers they wanted to see. If you notice, ambient temps on that dyno sheet in the thread show 103F for the stock baseline and 90F for the test with muffler. Looks like they manipulated the test conditions the other direction this time. Plus, these results are not weather corrected, as that would normalize the ambient weather influences." I said several times in my post questioning these results that the results may just be an honest error, a problem with the dyno, an operator error, etc. It isn't my job or the job of anyone on this website to call up the dyno operator and put him or her on the witness stand. I am only asking for another test, some sort of independent verification of the results. I have no problem with Douge, or his exhaust or the fact that he is happy with the results, in fact I am glad that he is happy and that this exhaust may be another potential solution for members looking for an aftermarket exhaust. I would also welcome Vivid if they wanted to discuss becoming a sponsor, running a group buy, etc. etc. My door is always open, my phone number listed in the back of every issue of Panorama, and of course available via email and PM via this website. I would, however, tell them that we wouldn't advertise dyno numbers here unless they are independently verified. BTW if Douge wants to post some pictures here (actually I thought he did in another thread) I told him that was fine as long as the pics don't turn into an advertisement. For that matter he can upload a sound clip to the Files section as well.

"I would, however, tell them that we wouldn't advertise dyno numbers here unless they are independently verified." Amen! Through the years I've learned there are too many manufacturers that publish their own gains on exhaust which have turned out to not be true. I salute Agency Power or Vivid for developing a product and by the looks and sound of it a good one but the dyno sheet just doesn't add up and would like an independently verified dyno, before and after.

And owned by vividracing. Does look like the fabspeed to me from the pix?