Specification for 997.2 C2 (vs C2S) - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

I am looking at potential future purchase of a 911 - still hoping for prices on gen2 C2S to drop but they aren't yet. Whilst looking I have seen an early gen 2 C2 that on paper looked good (spec etc, though miles high at 80k which is putting me off) but can anyone help with the base car specs for a C2 vs C2S from 2009 ? -it might be that a C2 with some extras is enough, though I wonder if I would always wish I'd bought a C2S (though I think this applies at every level - e.g. if I found a C2S would I always wish that I had a GTS!) Thanks

Summarising from the 997.2 UK brochure, these are the standard extras you get with the C2S over the C2: a 3.8-litre engine with direct fuel injection. Power output: 283 kW (385 hp) at 6,500 rpm. Maximum torque: 420 Nm at 4,400 rpm. Base Carrera is 254 kW (345 hp) at 6,500 rpm and a maximum torque of 390 Nm at 4,400 rpm. 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 4.7 seconds. Top speed 302 km/h (188 mph). (PDK 4.5 secs) (PDK wth Sports chrono 4.3 secs). Base Carrera is 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 4.9 seconds and a top speed of 289 km/h (180 mph). two stainless steel twin tailpipes The four-piston aluminium monobloc calipers have a striking red painted finish and the generously dimensioned brake discs make for outstanding deceleration. 19-inch Carrera S II wheels. Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) 10-mm lowered suspension see this pdf: http://photos.stuttcars.info/upload/2015/02/16/911...

With the plain C2, no PASM as noted above and only 18 in wheels. You do get xenons though - unlike the 997.1 C2. Get a car with 19s and PASM - plus a few other nice extras, as mine had - and you've got a cracking car. Underrated IMO. I loved mine... but always wished it had red brake calipers.

Thank you - the brochure link is very helpful. I also think I might miss the red callipers, and twin exhaust pipes! The car I'm looking at is a private sale - it looks to have the 19 Carerra sport wheels (judging from the photos (and checking against the brochure link), unless they also did these in 18" on the C2? ). It also has the following noted optional spec - though from the info shared I can see some of this is std kit, such as xenon... Park Assist Rear Touchscreen Satellite Navigation Electric Memory Seats Bi-xenon headlights Full leather (including dash) Sports Exhaust Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) Porsche Communication Management (PCM 3.0) Telephone module Porsche Vehicle Tracking System (PVTS) Fitted Porsche Carpet mats I think it also has cruise from the photos. Is that a stalk to left of steering wheel at about 8 O'clock when looking at the steering wheel ? Anything else that might be desirable to want if looking ? From the brochure link it look like sports exhaust should be twin pipes each side, but this just has the one oval pipe. Am I reading the brochure wrong ? Am I right that these are £515 / yr for tax currently ? - and is there any planned future change in tax for this that I might have missed? Finally - I have a Mk 7 Golf R right now, so aside from struggling to fit the children in a 911 (they are 13 & 15!!) on paper both cars have similar performance (300BHP / 5 sec to 60). I imagine the 911 would still have something extra special about it, but has anyone else got any experience of coming from similar (to golf R) car into 911 ? Thanks again

Cruise control is on the right, but you can fit it.

Converse2020 said: Thank you - the brochure link is very helpful. I also think I might miss the red callipers, and twin exhaust pipes! The car I'm looking at is a private sale - it looks to have the 19 Carerra sport wheels (judging from the photos (and checking against the brochure link), unless they also did these in 18" on the C2? ). It also has the following noted optional spec - though from the info shared I can see some of this is std kit, such as xenon... Park Assist Rear Touchscreen Satellite Navigation Electric Memory Seats Bi-xenon headlights Full leather (including dash) Sports Exhaust Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) Porsche Communication Management (PCM 3.0) Telephone module Porsche Vehicle Tracking System (PVTS) Fitted Porsche Carpet mats I think it also has cruise from the photos. Is that a stalk to left of steering wheel at about 8 O'clock when looking at the steering wheel ? Anything else that might be desirable to want if looking ? From the brochure link it look like sports exhaust should be twin pipes each side, but this just has the one oval pipe. Am I reading the brochure wrong ? Am I right that these are £515 / yr for tax currently ? - and is there any planned future change in tax for this that I might have missed? Finally - I have a Mk 7 Golf R right now, so aside from struggling to fit the children in a 911 (they are 13 & 15!!) on paper both cars have similar performance (300BHP / 5 sec to 60). I imagine the 911 would still have something extra special about it, but has anyone else got any experience of coming from similar (to golf R) car into 911 ? Thanks again Not a bad spec. IIRC full leather was in theory an option but 'they all' have it. PASM defo worth having IMO. All would have mats (and a top tint on the windscreen). Exhaust sounds standard to me - but no matter, you'll be able to hear the engine better. Currently driving a Mk 7 Golf GTI with performance pack (but still 70 bhp shy of the R). The Golf and the 997 are totally different driving experiences. The 911 is quicker by half a second or so to 60 but...? I'd suggest the R would be quicker across country and easier work. But the 997 is heaps more tactile and involving, and far more rewarding to drive quickly if you're prepared to learn how to get the best from it. Help any?

VED (road tax) on the 997.2 C2 (non S) is £295. If you have the reg no of the car you are interested in, use this site to work out the tax: https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/. I'm not aware of any announced tax changes that will affect current cars. April's tax changes will only affect new registrations. Confirm with the seller whether the sports exhaust is "porsche sports exhaust (PSE)" or aftermarket. If you have interior photos you may be able to see it. For example, Photo 7 of this ad shows a PSE button http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... (exact location of button on that panel depends on what other options are present). The cruise control stalk is on the right hand side, around 4 o'clock. The stalk at 8 o'clock controls the on board computer display. Regarding options, really depends on what you like. For me, your list is missing heated seats, Bluetooth, BOSE sound, Universal Audio Interface (iPod, USB, Aux). My car also rear wiper and a sunroof which I like but I'm aware some folks think they affect the car's "lines". I also like the Sport and Sport Plus (PDK only) buttons. I also went through the C2 vs C2S debate. In the end I decided that you get so much more for the extra £5k outlay, so went for the a C2S. Finally, have you test driven a 997? If you are looking at manuals, make sure you are happy with the weight of the clutch. I found it quite heavy so went for the quite brillant PDK instead.

Thanks - that helps a lot.

I have a standard Golf and 997.2 C2S. Golf is easier to drive, lighter steering/easier to manouvre, easier to park, more comfortable on crap roads. Then there's the 911 which is a totally different animal and so much fun you have a smile on your face every time you drive That probably doesn't help but the message is get a 911, I've not yet met a Porsche owner who has regretted buying one - aside from one or two people who bought a dodgy car!

I've just chosen a manual 997.2 C2 in preference to the many C2S PDKs that are around as I wanted to get the purest spec of 911 possible as a long term hold and therefore the Manual 'box and passive dampers setup was more attractive than PASM.

anonymous said: [redacted] Couldn't agree more about the engine. As for the look-at-me noises, I think the same about PSE. [Edited to add:] Re clutch weighting, not an issue IMO; sufficiently meaty and just right really.

hondansx said: Regardless, i would always try and stretch to get the S due to the wider hips. I may not have great hearing but for me a 911 needs to look a certain way and the wider the rear, the better! The wider hips only come with the 4WD versions, S and non-S.

kith said: I've just chosen a manual 997.2 C2 in preference to the many C2S PDKs that are around as I wanted to get the purest cheapest spec of 911 possible

Shaoxter said: kith said: I've just chosen a manual 997.2 C2 in preference to the many C2S PDKs that are around as I wanted to get the purest cheapest spec of 911 possible Haha, that certainly helps! Won't be the cheapest in 20 years time buddy

Converse2020 said: Finally - I have a Mk 7 Golf R right now, so aside from struggling to fit the children in a 911 (they are 13 & 15!!) on paper both cars have similar performance (300BHP / 5 sec to 60). I imagine the 911 would still have something extra special about it, but has anyone else got any experience of coming from similar (to golf R) car into 911 ? Thanks again I swapped from a Mk5 GTi to my 996, that was 7.5yrs ago when the kids were 6 & 9. As an only, everyday car the 997 will struggle, if like mine you only use it for weekend family use then it should be Ok, they are not spacious in the back but all the rubbish of them being unusable is just that, rubbish. The 911 is certainly far more special than any Golf ever will be, the Golf is a great all rounder but by God they are dull!

The 997 certainly will feel like an older car in comparison to the Golf. The ride is busy, and it's quite a noisy enviroment in terms of cabin noise. The Porsche will probably be quieter in terms of engine/exhaust too - i understand the new Golf R makes fake noises so i think you may be a bit disappointed at first in comparison. My hearing is clearly not as sophisticated as others, because i had to fit the Sharkwerks bypass on top of the Porsche Sports Exhaust to my 997.2 4S to make me feel like i was actually driving a sports car! Typically, an S will always be in a better spec so there is more to choose from. Regardless, i would always try and stretch to get the S due to the wider hips. I may not have great hearing but for me a 911 needs to look a certain way and the wider the rear, the better! Edited by hondansx on Monday 23 January 13:50

The Sharkwerks (or similar) bypass is an excellent mod, not deafening or droney at all when driving normally. The stock 997.2 exhaust really is too quiet, even with PSE. But even with the bypass + PSE it's not as loud (or as good) as a 996/997.1 with PSE.

Sorry, senior moment there. Yep, wide (turbo) body is in the 4WD versions! Noise is a subjective one. For me, a sports car is about being immersed in the experience, and a big part of that is engine and exhaust sound. Let's face it, that's why manufacturers are resorting to 'plumbing in' noise these days. The PSE is switchable, so is a no brainer in my view.

Converse2020 said: Finally - I have a Mk 7 Golf R right now, so aside from struggling to fit the children in a 911 (they are 13 & 15!!) on paper both cars have similar performance (300BHP / 5 sec to 60). I imagine the 911 would still have something extra special about it, but has anyone else got any experience of coming from similar (to golf R) car into 911 ? Are you keeping the Golf R? If so, I would suggest 997.2 C2 manual with less gadgets and gizmos. Would be a fantastic combo. I've driven my golf 4 motion (mk4), way underdeveloped than your R of course, along with my 986 for a few years, with also the access to my dad's old 997.1 C2 . I always felt, VW particularly Golf felt much solid and reliable car comparing to Porsche. Can't say a lot about 997.2 they are of course more reliable different engine and so on, but parts would not be that cheap so always good to keep a VW with enough power if you can afford to have both imho

hondansx said: The 997 certainly will feel like an older car in comparison to the Golf. The ride is busy, and it's quite a noisy enviroment in terms of cabin noise. The Porsche will probably be quieter in terms of engine/exhaust too - i understand the new Golf R makes fake noises so i think you may be a bit disappointed at first in comparison. Edited by hondansx on Monday 23 January 13:50 Bloke who owned my 997 GTS before me traded it in for a Golf R... I am so glad he did! A mate has a Golf R....seriously quick but the fake noise is just utter s te (didn't tell him that!)

hondansx said: The 997 certainly will feel like an older car in comparison to the Golf. The ride is busy, and it's quite a noisy enviroment in terms of cabin noise. The Porsche will probably be quieter in terms of engine/exhaust too - i understand the new Golf R makes fake noises so i think you may be a bit disappointed at first in comparison. Edited by hondansx on Monday 23 January 13:50 Bloke who owned my 997 GTS before me traded it in for a Golf R... I am so glad he did! A mate has a Golf R....seriously quick but the fake noise is just utter s te (didn't tell him that!)

Thanks everyone. Yes the golf has a fake sound, but I can turn that off - though no one else hears it outside of the car when its on so it still really is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Right now I'm torn between keeping the practicalities and outright do it all nature of the Golf R (2 year old car and 20k miles, fits kids / dog etc,and likely to be as fast as anything else I could get ),vs buying the (cheapest) 997.2 C2 I've seen - 8 years old and 80k.... I think the compromise might be to keep the golf R and look at a 911 as a weekend car for limited use - and here i'm torn between spending 30k on best value 997.2 I can find, or going much much cheaper and looking for very early original 996. To further complicate things - the seller of the 997.2 I was looking at has now said he will get it MOT'd and serviced now for the asking price ! so - one further question, the link shared above on road tax didn't take me to a page with an answer. Best I could find did suggest it was £515 / yr road tax for an early 997.2 - can anyone else confirm or deny that ? Thanks again

Converse2020 said: Thanks everyone. Yes the golf has a fake sound, but I can turn that off - though no one else hears it outside of the car when its on so it still really is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Right now I'm torn between keeping the practicalities and outright do it all nature of the Golf R (2 year old car and 20k miles, fits kids / dog etc,and likely to be as fast as anything else I could get ),vs buying the (cheapest) 997.2 C2 I've seen - 8 years old and 80k.... I think the compromise might be to keep the golf R and look at a 911 as a weekend car for limited use - and here i'm torn between spending 30k on best value 997.2 I can find, or going much much cheaper and looking for very early original 996. To further complicate things - the seller of the 997.2 I was looking at has now said he will get it MOT'd and serviced now for the asking price ! so - one further question, the link shared above on road tax didn't take me to a page with an answer. Best I could find did suggest it was £515 / yr road tax for an early 997.2 - can anyone else confirm or deny that ? Thanks again I'm about to go from a M135i to a 997.2 C2 so a not dissimilar move. I fully expect the daily practicalities such a the school run to be more of a pain in the 911 but the upside is more than worth it in terms of driving pleasure. Speed isn't everything, the 997 delivers such great feedback and interaction at lowish speeds. All 997.2s apart from the base model with PDK, which just sneaks in at 225g/km, are taxed at the full £515 rate.

Friend on the look out for a 997.2, so thought I'd give this a bump rather than start a new thread - anyone that's driven both PASM vs passive (obviously C2 specific) care to comment on pros/cons? Is PASM retrofittable? With regards options I know Sport Chrono and PSE can be retrofitted (not sure how much they cost though?) but what about things like the universal audio interface? Just trying to filter out what are musts/non-negotiable eg gearbox/body style/2wd/4wd vs what can be tweaked/added later. Thanks!

Fezzaman said: Friend on the look out for a 997.2, so thought I'd give this a bump rather than start a new thread - anyone that's driven both PASM vs passive (obviously C2 specific) care to comment on pros/cons? Is PASM retrofittable? With regards options I know Sport Chrono and PSE can be retrofitted (not sure how much they cost though?) but what about things like the universal audio interface? Just trying to filter out what are musts/non-negotiable eg gearbox/body style/2wd/4wd vs what can be tweaked/added later. Thanks! Sports Chrono (c£700), PSE (c£2,500) and Universal Audio Interface (c£700) all retro fittable (albeit Sports Chrono will not come with the dashboard stopwatch). I don't think PASM is retrofittable. The ride without PASM is firm, but not ridiculously so, although more tuned towards the 18" rather than 19" wheel set up.

A C2S is an epic car, so full of engagement with the driver... on the right roads though. For motorway or A road use the tyre noise is painful. Also it will be a pain for larger kids. I had mine for 3 years but as the kids have got older it just got too uncomfortable to be fun. I am sorry to see her go and will definitely have another but for now the practicality of enjoying the car with the family didn't work out. Regarding C2 or C2S, I drove both and loved both to be honest. I would just recommend you find the right car whether S or not...

Bumping an old thread with a couple of questions. Aside from some of the technical differences discussed in this thread (engine/brakes/PASM) are there any differences in standard spec? For example, did the S come with full leather as standard or was that an option on both? They both come with xenon lights I understand, but any differences that are good to know? are the standard seats the same basic versions? 2nd question, is a non-PASM car easier to swap suspension out for some fast road coilovers at a later date if desired, or are there more options for PASM equipped cars? Thanks