Tyre query - Page 2 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, I'm ordering a set of new tyres for the Panamera. I was going for the Michelin PS4s, but I also read alot of good things about the Eagle F1 Supersports (they're also £500 cheaper) The rears come up as Porsche NA0, but the fronts aren't N rated. Will this matter handling wise? Warranty wise I'm not worried, as it's run out a while ago. James

The N rating is the biggest sucker deal in retail.

julian987R said: The N rating is the biggest sucker deal in retail. I must admit, I didn't really think about it until someone emailed me from Black circles to say if I wanted to continue with the order, and that they were different, I started to wonder then..

jamesbilluk said: julian987R said: The N rating is the biggest sucker deal in retail. I must admit, I didn't really think about it until someone emailed me from Black circles to say if I wanted to continue with the order, and that they were different, I started to wonder then.. they are reeling you in ...."we got a live one here!"

The "N" stands for Nürburgring - pretty much all you need to know about how this marketing works.

julian987R said: they are reeling you in ...."we got a live one here!" Just told them to continue with the order as it is..

Henry Catchpole posted an image on his Instagram stories a few years back which showed cross sections of the same named tyre in 4 or 5 different manufacturer fitments. The diferences between them were very obvious, and quite significant (I have a screenshot which I haven't found yet, but will post if I do). Whilst I am not making any statement regarding the best version of the tyre for your car, I am saying that suggestion that the N rating is pure marketing is uninformed. The N rated 4S is differenet from a non N rated one. I believe NA0 is Porsche's fitment designed for the 992. That's very much not to say it isn't also excellent on other cars, just that's what the NA0 rating is for. FWIW I run my Cayman R on non-N-Rated tyres as I prefer them to the PS2 which is the most up-to-date N rated tyre for the car. If I were in your position I'd do as much research as I could on what suits your car and take it from there. From my experince over a number of cars, Michelin and Goodyear seem to both perform well, however I'd personally avoid Pirellis, N-rated or otherwise. Which is best is a mix of how you use it and your personal preferences.

PaulD86 said: Henry Catchpole posted an image on his Instagram stories a few years back which showed cross sections of the same named tyre in 4 or 5 different manufacturer fitments. The diferences between them were very obvious, and quite significant (I have a screenshot which I haven't found yet, but will post if I do). Whilst I am not making any statement regarding the best version of the tyre for your car, I am saying that suggestion that the N rating is pure marketing is uninformed. The N rated 4S is differenet from a non N rated one. I believe NA0 is Porsche's fitment designed for the 992. That's very much not to say it isn't also excellent on other cars, just that's what the NA0 rating is for. FWIW I run my Cayman R on non-N-Rated tyres as I prefer them to the PS2 which is the most up-to-date N rated tyre for the car. If I were in your position I'd do as much research as I could on what suits your car and take it from there. From my experince over a number of cars, Michelin and Goodyear seem to both perform well, however I'd personally avoid Pirellis, N-rated or otherwise. Which is best is a mix of how you use it and your personal preferences. Thanks for the reply Paul. Ah, I did wonder what the rear F1 Supersports NA0 fitment would be, they're 315 width. I have read very good things about the Eagle F1 Supersports with steering feel and grip, I did have them on the Civic type R I had and reply liked them. but can't seem to find the 275 fronts in N fitment, just the rears. I have seen the pilot sport 4s in N0 fitment, on both, but most companies who I speak to said they're having trouble getting hold of them. Even though igh they're worn now, I don't think I would have another set of the P zero's, they're quite a noisy tyre now.

I’m sure they are different but naming Porsche road car tyres N as they’re developed on the Nurburgring is pure marketing guff. As our man says, do your research for your use case and how you intend to drive / use the car. Don’t pay for extra just because the N is on the side.

The A in NA0 signifies tyres for the 992. I believe there will be other second letters for other models at some point. Tyre reviews on YouTube has just done a video on the NA0 PS4S for the 992 and explains some of the work Michelin did when making them. He also did a video going through the difference in OE tyres. I have them on my C4S and they’re very good indeed. The place I got them from said that there are a lot of people moving from Pirelli to Michelin at the moment. Not sure if this is a sign of current fashion or if there’s really a difference between them. N-rated tyres are needed for warranty and part-ex with an OPC which may or may not be something you need to worry about.

Smiljan said: I’m sure they are different but naming Porsche road car tyres N as they’re developed on the Nurburgring is pure marketing guff. As our man says, do your research for your use case and how you intend to drive / use the car. Don’t pay for extra just because the N is on the side. Thank you I think I'll still go for the Goodyear order, should suit for what I use the car for.

Paulsd said: The A in NA0 signifies tyres for the 992. I believe there will be other second letters for other models at some point. Tyre reviews on YouTube has just done a video on the NA0 PS4S for the 992 and explains some of the work Michelin did when making them. He also did a video going through the difference in OE tyres. I have them on my C4S and they’re very good indeed. The place I got them from said that there are a lot of people moving from Pirelli to Michelin at the moment. Not sure if this is a sign of current fashion or if there’s really a difference between them. N-rated tyres are needed for warranty and part-ex with an OPC which may or may not be something you need to worry about. Thank you, I have read great things about PS4s, Warranty wise, it ran out some time ago, I didn't know about the PX though, I may well in the future, not for a while though. Edited by jamesbilluk on Wednesday 10th August 00:10

Looks like it's more urgent!! This happened in the village, now parked up near the house, no spare l, and the gloop didn't work.. and the tyre won't hold enough pressure to get to the garage.. I'll have to see if the AA space saver wheel will fit tomorrow

I listened to a podcast which was an interview with a guy who runs a tyre testing channel on YouTube I think.....hearing him talk about the trouble manufacturers and especially Porsche go to was ridiculous. Having listened to him I am not sure I'd mix tyres which are N rated and non N rated on different axels. He cited an example of the latest BMW M3 which comes with PS4S tyres...he described the tyres developed for the M3 as having up to 50% of the tread as being made of the same rubber as a Cup 2 tyre. Why ? In the lap time analysis if a car is on Cup 2's people say the performance gain is down to the Cup 2 tyres.... Apparently Porsche go through a new tyre homologation whenever a car is updated...so 992.2 will have newly homologated tyres. My anecdotal story would be when I took my 50 year old 911 to Centre Gravity who are incredibly highly regarded in these parts. Just before I'd bought the car it had replacement rear tyres. It thus had N5 rated rears and N4 rated fronts. Chris was absolutely insistent that I got some N5 rated fronts...he said having different N rating on front and rear axels would make the car either over or understeer more than it should because of the different tyre characteristics.

I arranged for Kwik Fit to fit a full set of P Zeros (Rosso?) to my Boxster in my works car park. When the guy arrived I went out to meet him. Before I said a word he looked at the car and, without checking the new tyres in his van, told me (in no uncertain terms) that he wouldn't fit the tyres if they weren't the correct speed rating. Charming! It's a 2.7 986, hardly going to test the tyres too much!

Paulsd said: The place I got them from said that there are a lot of people moving from Pirelli to Michelin at the moment. Not sure if this is a sign of current fashion or if there’s really a difference between them. Huge difference. When it's cool, damp or wet and the tyres are anything other than new, the Michelins still grip. P-Zeros are not good in anything other than hot conditions. They do well in some tests, but they test new. The performance drop off with a little wear is significant. The MPS4S is miles better for the UK climate.

Smiljan said: Is this true? Porsche invalidate warranties if N tyres aren’t fitted? The Porsche extended warranty is an insurance product and not a warranty per sae. As such Porsche can, and do, make demands to comply with its terms. These include only fitment of genuine parts and, for tyres, the fitment of N-rated only. So in simple terms, fitting non n-rated tyres invalidates an extended warranty. That said, I had work done to my car under extended warranty with non N-rated tyres fitted so part of this will come down to the relationship you have with your dealer and what the claim is for (mine was for an electric window related issue). If you want to be sure they won't use tyres to avoid a claim, fit n-rated. If you want to risk it, that's your call but they could deny your claim. Alternatively you could do what I ended up doing and buy a 2nd set of genuine Porsche wheels and tyres and fit those for dealer trips for warranty issues.

PaulD86 said: N-rated tyres are needed for warranty and part-ex with an OPC which may or may not be something you need to worry about. Is this true? Porsche invalidate warranties if N tyres aren’t fitted? Edited by Smiljan on Wednesday 10th August 08:26

Thanks Paul, that’s pretty unusual but it’s their warranty, their terms I guess. Not sure how tyre construction and compound would affect say. An engine failure but it’s up to them if they want to cancel a warranty because of the tyres you fit. Hope the OP has some luck today getting it all sorted

Thanks for the help all I've had to go for the Eagle F1 Supersports from F1 autocentre who can get them for today. AA are coming out to get the car on their universal space saver wheel (hopefully it will fit over the calipers..)

PaulD86 said: The Porsche extended warranty is an insurance product and not a warranty per sae. As such Porsche can, and do, make demands to comply with its terms. These include only fitment of genuine parts and, for tyres, the fitment of N-rated only. So in simple terms, fitting non n-rated tyres invalidates an extended warranty. That said, I had work done to my car under extended warranty with non N-rated tyres fitted so part of this will come down to the relationship you have with your dealer and what the claim is for (mine was for an electric window related issue). If you want to be sure they won't use tyres to avoid a claim, fit n-rated. If you want to risk it, that's your call but they could deny your claim. Alternatively you could do what I ended up doing and buy a 2nd set of genuine Porsche wheels and tyres and fit those for dealer trips for warranty issues. That isn't quite right. To have a new ext warranty applied, you need to meet certain terms, including having N rated tyres on the car. Once the car has the cover, it's a bit different. The warranty will be invalidated should any non-Porsche part fitted to the car be deemed consequential to the fault in question or should any maintenance or other work done to the car outside of the OPC network be deemed consequential. This is a closed box decision which you as the customer get no control over or insight to. However, it's an insurance product subject to the usual statutory constraints. If Porsche refused a claim on, say, a faulty PCM nav unit because the tyres were N but otherwise suitable for the car, the insurance ombudsman wouldn't let that fly and I very much doubt that would ever be attempted. You'd want to be very careful how you went about things if you insisted on fitting non-OEM parts. Generally, far better off to stick to everything OEM and not risk a dispute. If you want the ext warranty, better to stick to the spirit of the arrangement rather than trying to game it. But equally the entire 'warranty' isn't instantly invalidated by fitting non-N tyres.

I’ve had various sets of Pirelli P Zeros and Michelins fitted to my Panameras over the years, all N rated tyres fitted by Porsche Chiswick, for the same price (sometimes better) as Blackcircles. I always found P Zeros to be noisier and with less feel than the Michelins, so now it’s Michelin every time. They are a costlier option but I find them quieter and they feel more pliant than P Zeros. No idea on the Goodyears as far as Porsches are concerned - I’ve been impressed with them on other cars I’ve had but would stick with N rated tyres as far as possible.

Got back earlier today from F1 autocentres Turned out the AA chap couldn't fit the space saver on, and it couldn't be towed.. He removed the tyre and wheel with the puncture and took it to the garage for them to change, brought it back to me, then I drove to the garage to get the rest fitted. Even though they're new, and I've not driven it hard, It feels like a different car now with the Eagle F1 Supersports on, much quieter than the P Zeros, much more steering feel, and less crashy over road imperfections as well (of which there are many here!!) I'm looking forward to getting some more miles into them so I can push them more.

That’s pretty much my experience with the Goodyear Eagles, I know they’re new but they always felt grippier and quieter than P Zeros. No idea why P Zeros are fitted to Panameras, they don’t suit the car at all.

Mosdef said: That’s pretty much my experience with the Goodyear Eagles, I know they’re new but they always felt grippier and quieter than P Zeros. No idea why P Zeros are fitted to Panameras, they don’t suit the car at all. They do seem really impressive, the amount of steering feel is lovely compared to thr P Zeros, it also feels as comfortable in Sport mode with the new tyres as it did with the P Zeros in comfort mode, sport plus is less crashy too. I would love to try a set of PS4s at some point though.

jamesbilluk said: They do seem really impressive, the amount of steering feel is lovely compared to thr P Zeros, it also feels as comfortable in Sport mode with the new tyres as it did with the P Zeros in comfort mode, sport plus is less crashy too. I would love to try a set of PS4s at some point though. I’ve got PS4s on my Turbo and really can’t complain but can’t back to back them. I’m always told that Michelins last a bit longer and that justifies the increased price but have no idea whether that’s true!

Mosdef said: I’ve got PS4s on my Turbo and really can’t complain but can’t back to back them. I’m always told that Michelins last a bit longer and that justifies the increased price but have no idea whether that’s true! I've definitely heard that about the tread life