What do you love about the 996? - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

As per title really, I'll start. I love the fact I can take the family out & still enjoy the drive, the noise it makes (Cargraphic exhaust) is fantastic & it constantly reminds me it is better than me. Over to you...

The noise - also have Cargraphic exhaust. The compact size. The steering feel The traction and grip, recent Ohlins R&T + CG geo = very sweet handling/poise/balance. The feeling of mechanical connection including the heft to the brake pedal & gear change. The fact that it is not a `valuable car` but a driving car. That it is low key - it does not attract much attention, let alone look as if it is trying to. It is amply fast enough, but not so fast that the performance is largely unusable. It is much more capable than me, and than it looks. Every day I use it, the day is improved!

That when I was thinking of selling mine (Turbo) it sold before I'd even worked out the sale plan and what to replace it with; that's how popular they are! What I don't like is that it's worth more now some 2 years after I sold it!

That it drives so well. That it just seems to be more and more satisfying to really string some corners together over time. That it's comfortable and accomplished so you can take it anywhere, any time. That it's a bit of an underdog that's starting to come good. That it's understated. That I don't know what I'd ever replace it with - never before have I had a car that I'm not planning to change..

the looks of the 4S the underdog image the price

Looks Sound Feel Analogue experience. Tinker-ability (if that's a word). You can just do routine maintenance and it'll be fine or you can get stuck in and renew and perfect loads of stuff. It offers many things to many owners. I think of them like 964 C2s but quicker. You can leave well alone and they're totally fine or you can add better suspension, bucket seats, and a few choice mods and you really have a super sharp, immersive driving tool. I liked my GT3 the most, but my C2 will be cracking once I'm done with it. My mate has just had his KWV3s rebuilt and new springs fitted. It's stunning to drive. It sits flat and stiff but rides bumps fantastically. Not crashy at all. Fresh suspension totally transforms them. Although we know that already eh. I best get saving for some ohlins. Great cars!* *Engine woes not withstanding.

- The noise with the PSE. Not least on cold start - The way it drives even on my old suspension. That feeling of weigh in the rear is so different to all the other cars I've owned - I love how 996s look and they were the first new 911 I really remember being launched - It just feels special to me in a way an E46 M3 didn't (fantastic car that it is)

The front lights. And the engine. And yep I'm serious!! Some other stuff too

skinny said: The front lights. And the engine. And yep I'm serious!! Some other stuff too The failures aside the M96 is a lovely engine. The failures and the Mezger make that a little overlooked. I like the headlights too, particularly the facelift / turbo style.

How about four times winner of EVO Car Of The Year (98/99/00/03) and top five finisher twice (01 & 02).

Focus and simplicity

The vfm, the compact size, light weight and all round vision from the drivers seat. Obviously the control weights, flat six motor - response, revs, sound... I also think it's in the sweet spot of having enough power to go pretty quickly on the road, but still being able to use max revs / power.

marky911 said: Looks Sound, Feel, Analogue experience. Tinker-ability (if that's a word). You can just do routine maintenance and it'll be fine or you can get stuck in and renew and perfect loads of stuff. It offers many things to many owners. I think of them like 964 C2s but quicker. You can leave well alone and they're totally fine or you can add better suspension, bucket seats, and a few choice mods and you really have a super sharp, immersive driving tool. I liked my GT3 the most, but my C2 will be cracking once I'm done with it. My mate has just had his KWV3s rebuilt and new springs fitted. It's stunning to drive. It sits flat and stiff but rides bumps fantastically. Not crashy at all. Fresh suspension totally transforms them. Although we know that already eh. I best get saving for some ohlins. Great cars!* Engine woes not withstanding. What Marky says! The base spec C2 is just such a wonderful platform. Dynamically it has few real rivals. Looks are subjective and the 996 certainly has more haters than adorers on this front. After nearly 3 months without my 996 now, it is getting painful. For me the things that make the 996 truly great are the steering and balance. It is such a rewarding car and with a small dose of spanner twirling can be made into something truly magical. Just such a shame that improving your Porsche is so heavily frowned upon by the blind masses. They really don't know what they are missing! Edited by CarreraLightweightRacing on Saturday 26th August 12:40

C2: Small, light, nimble, analogue, quick, sounds great, stiff shell, great steering and throttle adjustability, simplicity, value for money, great looks and design touches, plus it's got that great 911 traction/weight transfer, too. A hell of a lot of "driving experience" for the money (or even a lot more money).

[quote=EGTE]C2: Small, light, nimble, analogue, quick, sounds great, stiff shell, great steering and throttle adjustability, simplicity, value for money, great looks and design touches, plus it's got that great 911 traction/weight transfer, too. What he said and: 19 years and 90k miles largely hassle free motoring. I've used my 3.4l on track and only ever had a problem when the coolant hose touched the drive belt.

My 996 C2 is simply the best car I have ever owned. Absolutely brilliant drivers car, that is fast, handles well, and is totally understated. Take grandkids out in it and go too shops in it. A car for the true driver, not filled with electronic gizmos. An analogue car for an old analogue driver.lol. But always looks a million dollars, too me anyway. The driving is feeling is visceral, cant put into words, but a 911 has a feeling all of its own. Totally different to any car I have ever owned. They can bury me in this baby!

I like the nasp yet torquey nature of the engine, helped by the relative lack of mass. The steering feel is excellent and finally the small footprint of the car.

That its design has matured in such a way that it now draws looks from drivers of vastly more expensive 'exoctica'. This has recently progressed to the occasional thumbs up

Analogue feel Looks Ability to work on it myself Lack of safety net Overall definitely agree with Cmoose - it is really the sweet spot between modernity and old school P. S I also have an E46 M3 - that is another hero car of mine and hand on heart I would chose it before I pick a standard 996 (runs for cover)

LaSource said: Focus and simplicity ^This for me too. This week I have driven both 991s and a 997 and I still love the stripped-back almost race car retro feel to the 996 cabin. IMHO the 997 interior is a less resolved and cohesive design and, though very good, the modern 991 is - like most contemporary cars - quite busy with the tinsel and baubles. I've fitted a very discrete double-din nav/DAB to my car which is practical and useful but relatively unobtrusive. To me the 996 interior feels like driving a classic car.

Digga said: To me the 996 interior feels like driving a classic car. But with relatively modern ergonomics. I don't get the criticism of the 9x6 interior, it works very well and is incredibly functional. Yes, there are bits that could be slightly better in quality, and particularly on early cars where it's obvious they didn't really have the dev time on the car they should have being so cash strapped, but it works really well and partially defines the car for me.

bgunn said: Digga said: To me the 996 interior feels like driving a classic car. But with relatively modern ergonomics. I don't get the criticism of the 9x6 interior, it works very well and is incredibly functional. Yes, there are bits that could be slightly better in quality, and particularly on early cars where it's obvious they didn't really have the dev time on the car they should have being so cash strapped, but it works really well and partially defines the car for me. In honesty, now having driven both, I think the 996 is actually better laid out than the 997. The window switches in particular are far easier to use on the move. I also think, because it's only a mild evolution of the previous iterations of the 911 dash, it's already aging better.

Digga said: In honesty, now having driven both, I think the 996 is actually better laid out than the 997. The window switches in particular are far easier to use on the move. I also think, because it's only a mild evolution of the previous iterations of the 911 dash, it's already aging better. New "improved" ? : I think not ....

I love how settled the car is down a twisting country road, how it carries the speed through the corners so well without fuss or drama and how the 3.4 engine encourages you to use all of the rev range

Simple lines of them

Slippydiff said: New "improved" ? : I think not .... Exactly. I'm sure that, when you're actually just focuses on driving the car, the 997 is very nice - all the gauges are in the right place, after all, but it does look a bit busy.

Digga said: Slippydiff said: New "improved" ? : I think not .... Exactly. I'm sure that, when you're actually just focuses on driving the car, the 997 is very nice - all the gauges are in the right place, after all, but it does look a bit busy. Not a fair comparison imo. For one the contrast of the white fascia is very hard and to be fair the climate control has about the same number of buttons. It's only the PCM that has some more buttons than the DIN-1 Becker Radio. I really do like the 996's exterior styling but the interior is just too new age/90's/organic/etc for me. Yes, it does go very well with that bridge between 'classic' and 'new' idea a lot like about the 996, it is a very basic, simple layout, but the styling is way too fussy. The 997 is much cleaner although button heavy, but as an interior I much prefer the 997 to the 996. Here are two press pic for a better comparison: 996 997

If you are comparing the 996 interior in that particular shade of mushroom Stroganoff, then I would agree; the black 997 dash is way better.

You can remove the lower part of the vertical centre console which I think tides it up (and allows those over 6' to fit) warning - blue:

The purity and elegance of the compact narrow bodied design. Evokes a true man and machine interface, a car that wraps itself around the driver from the nose to the tail. Svelte sleek shape while echoing the character of the classic original 911 design. It even mimics cleverly some of the original design details of the Beetle that originated the 911 shape. A timeless shape that defies the ability of non Porsche people to put a date on it. Does everything driving wise absolutely brilliantly and really confirms the integrity of Porsche's engineering heritage, and pedigree especially the steering, balance, feel, traction, handling. Relatively inexpensive to run. 90% have turned out to be bulletproof in spite of being a whole new innovative and groundbreaking design. Very high up on then BHP per ton in a car that has exceptional day to day road manner. Still very fast even by todays standards. Simply a great car. One of the best ever. Definitely the best value ever!

Dammit said: You can remove the lower part of the vertical centre console which I think tides it up (and allows those over 6' to fit) warning - blue: Removing the lower centre console section definitely has merits - I do quite like that dark (Metropole?) blue. My car already had a double-DIN system fitted, so I upgraded it to a DAB/nav unit that looked very plain black. I think it works quite well in there and is not out of keeping with the general aesthetics:

I had to get the space for my left leg so keeping the lower centre console was out of the question, the head unit under the ventilation controls is a Becker Cascade Pro so has (somewhat old-school) navigation, bluetooth phone integration etc. If you need more info/ICE units then you'll need the lower console, I don't see a way round that. I do quite like the uninterrupted line of the dash with the lower console removed - strongly reminiscent of the older 911's, whilst being very much a new design in it's own right.

Filibuster said: The 997 is much cleaner although button heavy, but as an interior I much prefer the 997 to the 996. agreed but this is a thread extolling the virtues of the 996 so its rose-tinted specs time (someone even defended electric window switches on the centre console rather than on the door, by the window) I am a fan of most 996/997 but see the pros and cons of both

Adam B said: someone even defended electric window switches on the centre console rather than on the door, by the window Was me and I stand by it. In a manual car at least, you don't ever really want to have to take your right hand off the wheel whereas, your left hand can get to those switches (you can feel both there, so know intuitively which is left or right window) easily. even when you're shifting, you can reach down before or after the gearshift, easy. I've driven all sorts of cars, with all sorts of switches and do genuinely love the placement in the 996. All personal, of course!

Digga said: I've driven all sorts of cars, with all sorts of switches and do genuinely love the placement in the 996. All personal, of course! of course personal, heated seats switches should be on centre console, not in front of gearstick like 996/7 the one that annoyed me on the 996 is the blank switches on the centre console for the rear windows on the cab - Porsche couldn't be bothered having a different part for the coupe (and I hate blank switches on cars)

I moved the heated seat switches to the upper centre console, and as I have rear windows all of my available switches are in use.

Dammit said: I moved the heated seat switches to the upper centre console, and as I have rear windows all of my available switches are in use. don't follow: you have a coupe so moved the seat heaters to the utilise the blanks on the rear centre console? you have a cab so all 4 window switches are in use, but you moved the seat heaters from lower centre console to higher up? if the former, well done, exactly what I would have done had I bought that 996 turbo 4 years ago

Dammit said: You can remove the lower part of the vertical centre console which I think tides it up (and allows those over 6' to fit) ^^ This, in spades. My 996 has the centre console delete & much as I love my 997.2's interior, the centre console is a constant pain below the knee. Is it just me or is it actually impossible to find a comfortable position for your left leg? After a day on track in the 997, I longed for the simplicity & extra room afforded by the 996 interior.

Adam B said: don't follow: you have a coupe so moved the seat heaters to the utilise the blanks on the rear centre console? you have a cab so all 4 window switches are in use, but you moved the seat heaters from lower centre console to higher up? if the former, well done, exactly what I would have done had I bought that 996 turbo 4 years ago I have a cab, on the right hand side of the upper centre console I had one live switch (traction control) and two switch blanks. On the left hand side I had the roof, the heated rear window and the central locking. I moved the central locking from left to right, creating two vacant switch positions, then moved the heated seat switches from the lower centre console up to the two vacant positions, allowing me to remove the lower centre console. All of these shenanigans led to this: As it's a cab all four of the window switches are in use.

Dammit said: I have a cab, on the right hand side of the upper centre console I had one live switch (traction control) and two switch blanks. On the left hand side I had the roof, the heated rear window and the central locking. I moved the central locking from left to right, creating two vacant switch positions, then moved the heated seat switches from the lower centre console up to the two vacant positions, allowing me to remove the lower centre console. quite a palaver but well done - did you do all this as you wanted to remove the lower centre console section (where heated seat switches normally go)?

Yep.

Dammit said: I have a cab, on the right hand side of the upper centre console I had one live switch (traction control) and two switch blanks. On the left hand side I had the roof, the heated rear window and the central locking. I moved the central locking from left to right, creating two vacant switch positions, then moved the heated seat switches from the lower centre console up to the two vacant positions, allowing me to remove the lower centre console. All of these shenanigans led to this: As it's a cab all four of the window switches are in use. No offence (and I mean this genuinely) but are you some sort of millionaire? You've: Spent loads of money straight out of the bat when you got the car You've bought a shed load of new parts for an X51 engine build Just bought a set of Ohlins Have a Becker Cascade Pro in your car Fair play is all I say! I thought I spent money on mine like water

nxi20 said: ^^ This, in spades. My 996 has the centre console delete & much as I love my 997.2's interior, the centre console is a constant pain below the knee. Is it just me or is it actually impossible to find a comfortable position for your left leg? After a day on track in the 997, I longed for the simplicity & extra room afforded by the 996 interior. +100 else I get shin splints

bgunn said: No offence (and I mean this genuinely) but are you some sort of millionaire? You've: Spent loads of money straight out of the bat when you got the car You've bought a shed load of new parts for an X51 engine build Just bought a set of Ohlins Have a Becker Cascade Pro in your car Fair play is all I say! I thought I spent money on mine like water I'm no millionaire, and I don't have those other bits, but I do have a Cascade. It's ace. (and an Indianapolis in the van)

Nothing ! Had a 996 Turbo some years ago - bought at 3 year old with 7000 miles on clock, sold with 21000. In that time had:- In first two weeks, spent several days having PSM fault fixed (faulty vacuum tube somewhere apparently which was difficult to find) New discs all round to cure wheel balance problems (during which dealer also damaged one of the wheels) £900 bill for welding a bracket on exhaust heat shield to stop rattle 5 (yes 5) new radiators 2 AC condensers New fuel gauge I have had nine Porsches and awaiting my tenth but that 996 was the worst car I have ever owned in terms of running cost. It was a hoot to drive though ! It never came out of the dealers without an invoice in excess of £1K Still love the marque though! Edited by WG on Wednesday 30th August 11:42

nxi20 said: My 996 has the centre console delete & much as I love my 997.2's interior, the centre console is a constant pain below the knee. Is it just me or is it actually impossible to find a comfortable position for your left leg? After a day on track in the 997, I longed for the simplicity & extra room afforded by the 996 interior. Don't track but never have a problem in my 997 (I am over 6 foot), not an issue in 996 either. I also hate the look of the interior with the lower console removed, for some reason to me it looks really odd

Adam B said: nxi20 said: My 996 has the centre console delete & much as I love my 997.2's interior, the centre console is a constant pain below the knee. Is it just me or is it actually impossible to find a comfortable position for your left leg? After a day on track in the 997, I longed for the simplicity & extra room afforded by the 996 interior. Don't track but never have a problem in my 997 (I am over 6 foot), not an issue in 996 either. I also hate the look of the interior with the lower console removed, for some reason to me it looks really odd Driving a LHD 997 it is my right leg that touches the center console. Never bothered me. In fact I sometimes push the leg against the center console in fast corners or use the console as "guidline", if that makes sense.

bgunn said: No offence (and I mean this genuinely) but are you some sort of millionaire? You've: Spent loads of money straight out of the bat when you got the car You've bought a shed load of new parts for an X51 engine build Just bought a set of Ohlins Have a Becker Cascade Pro in your car Fair play is all I say! I thought I spent money on mine like water It does look rather feckless I suppose, but I'm very definitely not a millionaire - I'm in my early 40's and have no kids though. School fee's for cats are enviably low, I can reveal. I didn't intend on spending £10k+ on maintenance in the first six months - but I wasn't prepared to have anything wrong with the car, and my view was that once you've fixed it then it's done, as it were. Then I may have got a bit carried away, it is true - the engine build was meant to simply address the various known foibles of the M96, but then "whilst you're in there" set in well and truly. 100mm diameter cylinders, a closed deck, angrier cams etc - in some ways I suppose I'd just like to see what the M96 could be if freed from the problems that made it Internet famous. The answer may well be "dreadful", but there's only one way to find out. The Ohlins came about as the power hike from the engine work may, if things go according to the somewhat nebulous plan, be on the order of 70bhp or so, and I thought a bit more control might be a good idea lest I end up with a special edition 996 "Widowmaker". I'm going to end up with a 996 that has cost an embarrassing amount of money, but then I'm planning on enjoying what I've built for the next 30 years or so.

Mines got the M030 lowering kit and the way it sticks like shlte to a blanket through the twistys

Dammit said: I'm going to end up with a 996 that has cost an embarrassing amount of money, but then I'm planning on enjoying what I've built for the next 30 years or so. It's all good fun - and I do not blame you. Keep and cherish the car! I plan to, with mine.

Dammit said: I'm going to end up with a 996 that has cost an embarrassing amount of money, but then I'm planning on enjoying what I've built for the next 30 years or so. I think you might be a little optimistic there with the future ban on internal combustion engines. Maybe there'll be a market for retro fitted EV motors if the government allows it. I think people will have stopped buying these cars by 2030 as who would buy a fossil fuel car in 2030 that will have zero resale value.

People still ride horses, I'm sure I'll be fine in my classic Porsche when EV's rule the earth.

Sine Metu said: I think you might be a little optimistic there with the future ban on internal combustion engines. Maybe there'll be a market for retro fitted EV motors if the government allows it. I think people will have stopped buying these cars by 2030 as who would buy a fossil fuel car in 2030 that will have zero resale value. Zero you say? http://www.cheffins.co.uk/en/news/rare-vintage-ite...

Sine Metu said: I think you might be a little optimistic there with the future ban on internal combustion engines. Maybe there'll be a market for retro fitted EV motors if the government allows it. I think people will have stopped buying these cars by 2030 as who would buy a fossil fuel car in 2030 that will have zero resale value. Zero resale value? Maybe a Sierra 2.3D or Honda CRV etc but sports cars? In 13 years all worthless... is say there is zero chance of that.

It will be the same story as with horses. 100 years ago they where a form of transportation. Today they are used for sport and leisure. The same will happen with ICE cars. Hence the future will be sport cars and the 911 will be one of the most sought after. Yes, your 2010 Honda Jazz Diesel (can't be arsed to check wether that exists) will be worthless in 27 years time, but certainly not a Porsche 911. And the ban for SELLING ICE cars will come around 2040. But it will take another decade, if ever until the ICE as such gets banned from the road. And hopefully there will be an exception for classic cars, like the Porsche 911 of any vintage.

Filibuster said: It will be the same story as with horses. 100 years ago they where a form of transportation. Today they are used for sport and leisure. The same will happen with ICE cars. Hence the future will be sport cars and the 911 will be one of the most sought after. Yes, your 2010 Honda Jazz Diesel (can't be arsed to check wether that exists) will be worthless in 27 years time, but certainly not a Porsche 911. And the ban for SELLING ICE cars will come around 2040. But it will take another decade, if ever until the ICE as such gets banned from the road. And hopefully there will be an exception for classic cars, like the Porsche 911 of any vintage. I can imagine mainstream cars for sale might well all be Hybrid or EV only from 2030 if not a lot sooner. As for banning them - I'd say the Govt/Councils will road price so certain roads would in effect have no ICE on them/priced off. One thing is for sure make the most of them while we can & they stay affordable to buy. As for LeMans etc it might have to revert to full 24hr racing of classic racing cars -- not like the LeMans Classic with many races over the whole day.

Or they change the battery at the same stop as the driver.

ICE cars will not be banned from the road. Not going to happen. They will become rare, and fuel will be expensive, but they won't get banned.

I really like mine but I cant quite put my finger on the reasons why. It just gets under your skin. It doesn't feel old even though mine is a 1998 and its seen some life for sure. Ok the windows are very slow at going up and down and the headlights are shocking so yes these feel old. But the way it goes and stops is awesome. I cant imagine how good they must have felt when they were knew and other cars were 20 years behind the curve. My previous fun car was an e46 with a 5.7 litre engine and sure it had some thrust but I wouldnt look twice at it now if I had the keys to both in my hands. What's the saying - power is nothing without control. My 996 feels like it could easily handle twice as much power which is why at night I find myself dream of buying a 996TT and removing the 4wd from the front. A home brew GT2 maybe with enough power to really scare me.

ATM said: My 996 feels like it could easily handle twice as much power which is why at night I find myself dream of buying a 996TT and removing the 4wd from the front. A home brew GT2 maybe with enough power to really scare me. I've got a mapped 996tt and it's very quick, but there are times I do enjoy the benefits/safety net of the 4WD. I drove a 997 GT2 last week and WOW it does feel very much like things could get out of hand very quickly indeed, even though it's only 30 odd bhp more than my car at peak, the size of the turbos is noticeable in the way the boost spools up. It was impressive but intimidating.

Jumpingjackflash said: Where are 996 turbo manual prices just now? I sold mine four years ago and the dealer still has not found a buyer yet. My car was midnight blue and mint. It has 67k miles and full history. The dealer has had it advertised at £50k. I would buy it back but it has not sold so I would not give anywhere near £50k for it. I'd say mid 30s to mid 40s. You sometimes see them for low 30s. There's still a lot of buzz around air cooled turbo models due to rarity but the market around 996 and early 997 turbos seems a bit flat. The place I bought my car from has had one for sale for over 2 years for £35k. It's high mileage but a manual car in good condition with full carbon pack. I don't know if it's because so many modern performance cars are turbo'd so it's lost a bit of novelty. Either way £50k is very top for one.

I agree. I adore the 996 more now than ever. I would offer £35k for the car again but I can not imagine the dealer wanting to drop £10k. I know hoe much he paid for it. I wish I kept my 996 GT3 & 996 Turbo. We live and learn.

From what I've read about the turbo it's just a bit too fast or a bit too hard to give it a good thrashing. I had a blast out and about this weekend and was using maximum throttle for a few spells here and there. I had to think about distances and closing speeds and rush the odd gear change. In a turbo which is a lot quicker would you ever really feel like you are extracting the performance or are you just holding on while it goes into warp.

ATM said: From what I've read about the turbo it's just a bit too fast or a bit too hard to give it a good thrashing. I had a blast out and about this weekend and was using maximum throttle for a few spells here and there. I had to think about distances and closing speeds and rush the odd gear change. In a turbo which is a lot quicker would you ever really feel like you are extracting the performance or are you just holding on while it goes into warp. A bit of both... But it can be truly terrifying... A friend had a heavily DMS-ed/Manthey-ed 996T. Closing speeds were similar to being inside the Millennium Falcon as it was entering hyperspace...

I'd agree with that, but it depends on your journey types - mine is a daily, so spends a bunch of time kicking about time, at which point it's really ticking over. High geared, so I tend to drive in 3rd a lot rather than a higher gear. But at least once a week it gets a good thrash, and every few months a big thrash. On the right roads its fantastic, and once you get in the groove you stop hanging onto the wheel quite so much, but I will admit that can happen! On the right road, in 3rd and 4th, it's ridiculously capable - twisty A roads with lots of hills are a favourite - as you attack a twisting climb up the side of the hill, it is frankly insanely quick on boost ... which is all the time, as there isn't much lag and the gears from 2-4 are well spaced You don't have to wring it's neck out, in fact you feel it tail off after about 5.5K anyway, so it rewards changing up early into the meat of the torque again, which lets you concentrate on driving through the corners rather than trying to change up as you hit the limiter - it doesn't reward that approach because of the way the power curve is shaped

Long shot I know but does anyone have an outside 996 cover they no longer want and/or use before I have to buy new please?

1602Mark said: Long shot I know but does anyone have an outside 996 cover they no longer want and/or use before I have to buy new please? Mine sits outside at the moment and I'm going to go without a cover, I've heard/read they're not great for paintwork so just wash the bird s t off as soon as I spot it. Can't wait until we build a garage!

Fast Bug said: 1602Mark said: Long shot I know but does anyone have an outside 996 cover they no longer want and/or use before I have to buy new please? Mine sits outside at the moment and I'm going to go without a cover, I've heard/read they're not great for paintwork so just wash the bird s t off as soon as I spot it. Can't wait until we build a garage! I had one for both my E30 and E46 M3 and I just made sure to only fit it when the car was clean. I also made sure it was a good, tight fit so that it didn't get moved around by the wind. I absolutely agree that fitting a saggy cover on a dirty car will cause damage to the paint. Unfortunately building a garage isn't an option for me but I'm trying to rent one locally. I live next to a farm and am thinking of asking if they have a corner in one of their barns I can rent, in which case I'd fit a soft, indoor cover.

Cheburator mk2 said: ATM said: From what I've read about the turbo it's just a bit too fast or a bit too hard to give it a good thrashing. I had a blast out and about this weekend and was using maximum throttle for a few spells here and there. I had to think about distances and closing speeds and rush the odd gear change. In a turbo which is a lot quicker would you ever really feel like you are extracting the performance or are you just holding on while it goes into warp. A bit of both... But it can be truly terrifying... A friend had a heavily DMS-ed/Manthey-ed 996T. Closing speeds were similar to being inside the Millennium Falcon as it was entering hyperspace... 996T pretty forgiving in the big scheme of things, hopeless stock four pot brakes aside... GT2 a little bit spikier when you're really on it. Rest assured, if you think you have to think about stopping distances and closing speeds in a C2, you'd definitely need to recalibrate your senses altogether driving a mapped and "exhausted" 996 GT2. Though I can't image what the current crop of 700-800+ hp mid engine supercars require when it comes to "recalibrating" one's senses GT2 getting a bit loose out back : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s89ENwrebTk Not a lot space before you clatter the Armco there ...

Slippydiff said: 996T pretty forgiving in the big scheme of things, hopeless stock four pot brakes aside... GT2 a little bit spikier when you're really on it. Rest assured, if you think you have to think about stopping distances and closing speeds in a C2, you'd definitely need to recalibrate your senses altogether driving a mapped and "exhausted" 996 GT2. Though I can't image what the current crop of 700-800+ hp mid engine supercars require when it comes to "recalibrating" one's senses GT2 getting a bit loose out back : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s89ENwrebTk Not a lot space before you clatter the Armco there ... Love the obligatory switching on of the windscreen wipers My mate's 996T was fitted with proper 6-pots and Mathey KW's as well as GT3 arms and Manthey's alignment settings, so it was quite pointy. Only thing I didn't like was the lack of fireworks ala GT3 at the top end. Brutally effective though at demolishing roads at silly speeds...

Slippydiff said: 996T pretty forgiving in the big scheme of things, hopeless stock four pot brakes aside... Exactly this (I love when you post your experience here, I learn a lot from it), I just put new disks and pads, plus fluid, on mine and the brakes just don't give the confidence needed at all. It was a bit of a shock to me, I always thought they would have stunning brakes Sadly fixing that costs quite a lot of $$$ I can't justify as I don't plan on doing many track days anymore Edited by nebpor on Wednesday 30th June 14:25

I thought the brakes on the 996 turbo loaner I had were knackered they were that bad. I'm now wondering if that was just normal.

nunpuncher said: I thought the brakes on the 996 turbo loaner I had were knackered they were that bad. I'm now wondering if that was just normal. I doubt it. They should feel firm and brake well from sane speeds. I think Slippy is grumbling about a hard stop from 100+ or doing more than one stop in close succession when they will be retaining some heat form the previous stop. My mate bought a boxster with a sloppy brake pedal. It felt awful to me and I told him so. He tried new pads, new fluid and new flexis and it was still sloppy.

ATM said: nunpuncher said: I thought the brakes on the 996 turbo loaner I had were knackered they were that bad. I'm now wondering if that was just normal. I doubt it. They should feel firm and brake well from sane speeds. I think Slippy is grumbling about a hard stop from 100+ or doing more than one stop in close succession when they will be retaining some heat form the previous stop. My mate bought a boxster with a sloppy brake pedal. It felt awful to me and I told him so. He tried new pads, new fluid and new flexis and it was still sloppy. Pretty much sums it up, they're not a light car, and a few hard stops from the speeds a an X50 996 Turbo is easily capable of attaining (in very short order) soon sees a HUGE reduction in efficiency when you're trying to scrub speed off in a hurry. I'm surprised there aren't more snapped brake pedals or cracked bulkheads on 996 Turbos They are great cars when fitted with some decent suspension, brakes and a remap/exhaust. By no means the last word in tactility or engagement, but when you want to get from A to B in a hurry, it doesn't really matter when you have that kind of performance at your disposal. The example I briefly owned had Ruf Bilstein PSS9's and a Superchips remap along with a Ruf exhaust to produce 500-520hp . It was proper weapon, hopeless brakes and all !! Even a set of decent pads (that'd be RS29's or whatever Pagid now calls them. Marathon/Snickers springs to mind) proper fluid (Castrol SRF or Motul), a set of braided hoses and some big GT3 cooling ducts makes a noticeable difference.

ATM said: I doubt it. They should feel firm and brake well from sane speeds. I think Slippy is grumbling about a hard stop from 100+ or doing more than one stop in close succession when they will be retaining some heat form the previous stop. My mate bought a boxster with a sloppy brake pedal. It felt awful to me and I told him so. He tried new pads, new fluid and new flexis and it was still sloppy. The brakes on the loaner weren't in the least bit soft. First time I floored it I over estimated then and turned myself in to a javelin trying to get the car to slow from triple digits. Even more scary when its not your car. Could have been cheap, glazed or contaminated pads I guess as there weren't any odd noises.

Epic cars, love mine

Slippydiff said: Pretty much sums it up, they're not a light car, and a few hard stops from the speeds a an X50 996 Turbo is easily capable of attaining (in very short order) soon sees a HUGE reduction in efficiency when you're trying to scrub speed off in a hurry. I'm surprised there aren't more snapped brake pedals or cracked bulkheads on 996 Turbos They are great cars when fitted with some decent suspension, brakes and a remap/exhaust. By no means the last word in tactility or engagement, but when you want to get from A to B in a hurry, it doesn't really matter when you have that kind of performance at your disposal. The example I briefly owned had Ruf Bilstein PSS9's and a Superchips remap along with a Ruf exhaust to produce 500-520hp . It was proper weapon, hopeless brakes and all !! Even a set of decent pads (that'd be RS29's or whatever Pagid now calls them. Marathon/Snickers springs to mind) proper fluid (Castrol SRF or Motul), a set of braided hoses and some big GT3 cooling ducts makes a noticeable difference. I owned this car and put the Ruf exhaust and suspension on it :-)

ttdan said: I owned this car and put the Ruf exhaust and suspension on it :-) Great car, superbly judged suspension, very punchy re-map, fantastic exhaust

Is if wrong of me to prefer how a C2 drives? Turbos are properly quick old things, but I never found them as enjoyable as an N/A 996 to drive. More of a grand tourer to demolish the autobahn in as opposed to a b road fun thing. I'd like to try a GT2. I drive one once, across a car park and in to the showroom. I don't even think I got it in to second gear...

60 grand https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164914329029

Discombobulate said: chappardababbar said: Everything has been covered but I still feel the need to say my bit. Why is that? There are a few levels here.... Level 1: I believe the 911 is a timeless and iconic piece of engineering and design. The format is really interesting and makes the car unique and special relative to most other cars on the road. It's exceptionally well packaged, great usability, great visibility. Level 2: I believe the 996 is peak 911, for my needs. Everyone has a different (classic vs usable vs feels vs looks) balance that they want. There is no right answer, but for me pre-996 lacks the galvanised body that helps me sleep better at night, and post 996 loses sound, feel, deftness, and style. 996 = goldilocks 911. Level 3: I believe the base 911, IS the 911. Therefore the base 996 is the best 911, and by extension, one of the best cars ever made. The 911 is its true form, is a useable, daily-able, practical, relatively achievable, fun, sports car. Level 4, and this is where I'm going to lose you if I haven't already. For me the base 996 teaches me something about life. The hardest part about owning a carrera, is yearning for both GT3 and Turbo versions of the car. It's actually an exercise in self awareness, confidence, and control. In being true to what I believe and living it. I love that about it. I have to constantly remind myself what it is, and what it isn't and not try to change it by giving in to my constantly changing wants and needs. Level 5: For me to really bond with a car, it needs to have a heart. There is a coldness about the GT3, and a brutishness about the the Turbo. The carrera is pure charm, and heart, and personality. Eager to please, fun, easy going, and elegant. I am currently a little bit obsessed by the 996. I have a base carrera and I'm quite in love with it. One day I'd love to add a Turbo, and a GT3. When I imagine that scenario in my mind, I always walk towards the carrera first, and it's a good feeling. Excuse my pedantry but galvanised bodies pre-dated the 996 by two decades Sadly it doesn't stop the 996, or any other 911, rusting. Body Galvanizing in Porsche 911 Thyssen steel = steel with Zinc layers on both sides; thickness of the Zinc layers varied from 10 um to 20 um, depending on exposure conditions (Frere, p. 201) 1970 – Galvanized steel (not Thyssen type) used in floor pan and wheel arches (Bob White in Pano V: 142); the “entire platform, including the floor, the longitudinal members, the wheel arches and the seat pans were galvanized.” (Boschen & Barth, p. 124) 1971 models – had galvanized steel in areas particularly exposed to rust (Frere, p. 201) 1972-1973 – Thyssen steel use began (Bob White in Pano V: 142) 1973 – Thyssen steel: rocker panels, inner rocker panels, floor pans, & some other parts (Chuck Stoddard in Pano V: 142) 1975 – Thyssen steel: entire body treated (Bob White & Chuck Stoddard {began in Feb. ’75 production for US cars; earlier for Euro cars – had trouble with paint} in Pano V: 142, 192) 1976 models – had Thyssen steel in entire body except roof (Frere, p. 201) 1977 models – on – had Thyssen steel in entire body (Frere, p. 201); an “important step forward was the use of zinc-coated sheet steel for the manufacture of the entire body structure (except for the coupe’s roof on early production cars). Coated on both sides, this made the structure virtually immune against the formation of rust….” (Boschen & Barth, p. 143) Thank you for this! Great info - so there's no difference in the propensity for rust from 1977 onwards if I understand you correctly. Although perhaps there were further improvements to paint/coatings later down the line?

Galv only lasts so long. Usually you can expect maybe 15 years Once it's chipped through in places it will rot 996 has really thick underseal, any knick in that and it will rot unseen. I've seen well rotten 996 and 986. Have a really good prod around any purchase

22 years old! All original paint! Still polishes up well!

pencil9 said: 22 years old! All original paint! Still polishes up well! Is your spoiler broken? I presume it is drying from the wash'n polish. Looks great! Also I like the teddy bear wheels. What are they 981 or 982 wheels?

Filibuster said: pencil9 said: 22 years old! All original paint! Still polishes up well! Is your spoiler broken? I presume it is drying from the wash'n polish. Looks great! Also I like the teddy bear wheels. What are they 981 or 982 wheels? 996 GT3 gen 2.

Exactly they are copies by a company called velouch or similar I believe 19 inch not sure if it sits correct! I may well get the 18 split rims that were the original figment refurbed with new tyres, the car is beautiful with a new engine fitted in 2005 by Porsche! D chunked! One previous owner full maim dealer history! Yes it a tiptronic and was 12K should I be worried about the IMS ? Yes spoiler raised for polishing

37 grand Tip Some prices are getting a bit punchy https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109217...

Its nice but it is trying to be a Ferrari & if you want a Ferrari buy a Ferrari.

I know of 2 C4S's coming to the market soon. 10k and 9k miles, £65k and £70k respectively.

mr pg said: I know of 2 C4S's coming to the market soon. 10k and 9k miles, £65k and £70k respectively.

I have had my C2 Manual 1998 car, with 137k miles on it for a little over two months now. It is my first 911 of any kind and was bought at a sensible price, to enjoy. Went to see Paul Weller in concert last night in Bath - fantastic gig. The venue is about 90 miles from my home so I thought I would drive there & back. The car made the journey seem effortless, especially on the return home when the traffic was lighter. Over country roads I find the ability to seem relaxed and most comfortable (on M030 suspension) between 50 and 75 mph astounding. What is normally a bit of a jiggly ride and a slightly grumpy feel with a stiff clutch and a distaste for commuting generally, comes both alive and at the same time smooth and fuss free when getting a wiggle on. I think the full beam headlamps are as good as I have ever used (halogens), good enough for fairly quick driving, however i am sure that serious autobahn work might require something more powerful. The precision of the steering is other worldly and the way it sort of helps you to get into bends, rather than being indifferent or unhelpful is again, a new sensation. Probably the only other well sorted handling car I can give props to was a Peugeot 306 I had many years ago - really keen and alert and wanted to get a move on, especially on the twisties. I got back at 1am, thrilled and wondering why I hadn't got it sooner.. I love the car clean, I also think it looks great when dirty! .

swilkins999 said: I have had my C2 Manual 1998 car, with 137k miles on it for a little over two months now. It is my first 911 of any kind and was bought at a sensible price, to enjoy. Went to see Paul Weller in concert last night in Bath - fantastic gig. The venue is about 90 miles from my home so I thought I would drive there & back. The car made the journey seem effortless, especially on the return home when the traffic was lighter. Over country roads I find the ability to seem relaxed and most comfortable (on M030 suspension) between 50 and 75 mph astounding. What is normally a bit of a jiggly ride and a slightly grumpy feel with a stiff clutch and a distaste for commuting generally, comes both alive and at the same time smooth and fuss free when getting a wiggle on. I think the full beam headlamps are as good as I have ever used (halogens), good enough for fairly quick driving, however i am sure that serious autobahn work might require something more powerful. The precision of the steering is other worldly and the way it sort of helps you to get into bends, rather than being indifferent or unhelpful is again, a new sensation. Probably the only other well sorted handling car I can give props to was a Peugeot 306 I had many years ago - really keen and alert and wanted to get a move on, especially on the twisties. I got back at 1am, thrilled and wondering why I hadn't got it sooner.. I love the car clean, I also think it looks great when dirty! . You must have driven cars with seriously useless lights then, even with upgraded bulbs 996 lights are bloody hopeless!

To be fair, they aren't a patch on the c5 RS6 I had. The xenons on that, on full beam were amazing.

Looks very nice. I agree they make reasonable progress effortless when you get a nice road that’s clear. I’m hoping fitting a replacement Y cable will improve my headlights, 14V has got to be better than 12.5V which it sits at when hot.

Is the y cable an expensive job? Mines starting to get a bit slow to crank over, I think that's one of the symptoms of the cable being on its way out?

I think the cable was about £90, and a couple of hours labour.

Thanks for that, not too bad then. Looks like an expensive service coming up in a few months as I'm pretty sure the clutch is on its way out as well

Fast Bug said: Thanks for that, not too bad then. Looks like an expensive service coming up in a few months as I'm pretty sure the clutch is on its way out as well They do seem able to generate a pretty frightening bill with ease. I’m staring at a £7k estimate at the moment, that’ll mean in the last 18months I’ve spent more on it than it cost me to buy :/

What the hell are you getting done?

Fast Bug said: Is the y cable an expensive job? Mines starting to get a bit slow to crank over, I think that's one of the symptoms of the cable being on its way out? If the engine is hot and it does not want to crank over and start then that's definitely a sign of the "Y" cable on it's way out. The cable itself is not too expensive, the cost is in the labour. I took the option of changing the starter motor at the same time which didn't incur any extra labour cost as it's the same work more or less. If you are handy with spanners it's a job you could do yourself.

jonny996 said: What the hell are you getting done? - removing stuck spark plug no.1 - gearbox rebuild (all new bearings on both input & output shafts, diff & selector shafts, new syncro on 1st/2nd hub) - drill out and replace all manifold bolts - new exhaust manifolds - fit supplied oil cooler - fit supplied Y cable Gearbox is the big one and much more extensive than expected. If I wasn't planning to keep the car long term it could have been a fair bit less, there about £1400 of parts in the gearbox that weren't absolutely necessary (the syncros and selector bearings), and I could have just replaced the 1 snapped manifold bolt which might have done the job for another year.

HughG said: jonny996 said: What the hell are you getting done? - removing stuck spark plug no.1 - gearbox rebuild (all new bearings on both input & output shafts, diff & selector shafts, new syncro on 1st/2nd hub) - drill out and replace all manifold bolts - new exhaust manifolds - fit supplied oil cooler - fit supplied Y cable Gearbox is the big one and much more extensive than expected. If I wasn't planning to keep the car long term it could have been a fair bit less, there about £1400 of parts in the gearbox that weren't absolutely necessary (the syncros and selector bearings), and I could have just replaced the 1 snapped manifold bolt which might have done the job for another year. One of the lads in the early 996 thread got a local gearbox specialist to rebuild his and they ddin't charge any extra Porsche tax. He had to remove the box himself and take it to them. Thats the bit I imagine you might find challenging as would I. But you are allowed to ask your specialist to deliver the box to a business of your choosing for a rebuild. Surely the Porsche specialist you are using are just farming this work out to someone else anyway. My gearbox self destructed and it was more economical to replace with another used box. I couldn't find one in the UK for less than 3 grand so I sourced one from Germania. Last time I checked on eBay UK there were a couple for sale for around £1500. Typical right. But I guess your rebuild is already under way so this is all irrelevant?

ATM said: HughG said: jonny996 said: What the hell are you getting done? - removing stuck spark plug no.1 - gearbox rebuild (all new bearings on both input & output shafts, diff & selector shafts, new syncro on 1st/2nd hub) - drill out and replace all manifold bolts - new exhaust manifolds - fit supplied oil cooler - fit supplied Y cable Gearbox is the big one and much more extensive than expected. If I wasn't planning to keep the car long term it could have been a fair bit less, there about £1400 of parts in the gearbox that weren't absolutely necessary (the syncros and selector bearings), and I could have just replaced the 1 snapped manifold bolt which might have done the job for another year. One of the lads in the early 996 thread got a local gearbox specialist to rebuild his and they ddin't charge any extra Porsche tax. He had to remove the box himself and take it to them. Thats the bit I imagine you might find challenging as would I. But you are allowed to ask your specialist to deliver the box to a business of your choosing for a rebuild. Surely the Porsche specialist you are using are just farming this work out to someone else anyway. My gearbox self destructed and it was more economical to replace with another used box. I couldn't find one in the UK for less than 3 grand so I sourced one from Germania. Last time I checked on eBay UK there were a couple for sale for around £1500. Typical right. But I guess your rebuild is already under way so this is all irrelevant? Yes it was shalmanesa (I’ve probably spelt that wrong). I had been planning to do the same, but between work and family commitments haven’t got the time to do such things myself atm. I had been hoping to have a garden office/store built this year to let me get the car in the garage which would mean I can dip in and out of car fettling as required. There are two problems with that, the cost of them has gone crazy, and I’ve spent that money on the car. There is currently (well there was yesterday) a used box on eBay for £1500. I’ve already committed to £1600 of gearbox in/out and investigation work, so at this point my options are: - spend £3100 and have an unknown gearbox in the car - spend £4800 and have my gearbox with known good gears, and all new bearings and the vulnerable synchro replaced. That’s a fairly easy choice.

Fast Bug said: Is the y cable an expensive job? Mines starting to get a bit slow to crank over, I think that's one of the symptoms of the cable being on its way out? My understanding is, that when your car cranks slowly when hot, it most probably is the y-cable. When the same occurs from cold, more likely to be the starter or a weak battery. My 3.6 997 is booked to replace y cable and starter in 10 days. Starter is a Bosch OEM one bought from ebay €200 and y cable from opc for €110. My spanner monkey has never done the job, but PFF (german Porsche forum) claims about 1.5-2 hours of labour for a manual one. Tips are apparently more works since they require not only the TB, but the whole intake plenum to be pushed out of the way. According to the handbook this requires the engine to be lowered. Happy to report after it has been done!

HughG said: ATM said: HughG said: jonny996 said: What the hell are you getting done? - removing stuck spark plug no.1 - gearbox rebuild (all new bearings on both input & output shafts, diff & selector shafts, new syncro on 1st/2nd hub) - drill out and replace all manifold bolts - new exhaust manifolds - fit supplied oil cooler - fit supplied Y cable Gearbox is the big one and much more extensive than expected. If I wasn't planning to keep the car long term it could have been a fair bit less, there about £1400 of parts in the gearbox that weren't absolutely necessary (the syncros and selector bearings), and I could have just replaced the 1 snapped manifold bolt which might have done the job for another year. One of the lads in the early 996 thread got a local gearbox specialist to rebuild his and they ddin't charge any extra Porsche tax. He had to remove the box himself and take it to them. Thats the bit I imagine you might find challenging as would I. But you are allowed to ask your specialist to deliver the box to a business of your choosing for a rebuild. Surely the Porsche specialist you are using are just farming this work out to someone else anyway. My gearbox self destructed and it was more economical to replace with another used box. I couldn't find one in the UK for less than 3 grand so I sourced one from Germania. Last time I checked on eBay UK there were a couple for sale for around £1500. Typical right. But I guess your rebuild is already under way so this is all irrelevant? Yes it was shalmanesa (I’ve probably spelt that wrong). I had been planning to do the same, but between work and family commitments haven’t got the time to do such things myself atm. I had been hoping to have a garden office/store built this year to let me get the car in the garage which would mean I can dip in and out of car fettling as required. There are two problems with that, the cost of them has gone crazy, and I’ve spent that money on the car. There is currently (well there was yesterday) a used box on eBay for £1500. I’ve already committed to £1600 of gearbox in/out and investigation work, so at this point my options are: - spend £3100 and have an unknown gearbox in the car - spend £4800 and have my gearbox with known good gears, and all new bearings and the vulnerable synchro replaced. That’s a fairly easy choice. The 2nd gear thing has always worried me. I generally just use 1st and 3rd when pottering around especially when it is cold. I believe the 2nd gear on the 997 had some stronger parts - no idea why. Not sure if they are interchangeable but it might be worth investigating if they can be fitted to yours.

ATM said: The 2nd gear thing has always worried me. I generally just use 1st and 3rd when pottering around especially when it is cold. I believe the 2nd gear on the 997 had some stronger parts - no idea why. Not sure if they are interchangeable but it might be worth investigating if they can be fitted to yours. The way Precision explained it, the problem is people forcing it into second which wears the syncro rapidly and grinds the teeth on the baulk rings that lock the gear to the output shaft. 2nd gear is particularly prone to problems because it is a straight pull back change which is the fastest shift, and 1st-2nd has the biggest rev drop so the syncros have more work to do, if the shift is too fast the syncros haven't matched the revs before the gear is engaged. So gentle shifts into second shouldnt cause a problem.

Hartech 3.9 conversion Manual C2 911 Virgin £33,495 https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14268494

The purple car is back 59,500 miles Fuchs Resprayed Violet Chromaflair Metallic £29,795 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211141...

ATM said: The purple car is back Resprayed Violet Chromaflair Metallic By the look of the bumper and the sills behind the wheels, it needs another respray - bodywork looks terrible given the price they are asking