991 GTS - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows/new-42...

Just saw that - anybody else tempted?

And now there's this... http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/911/911-carrera-g...

Looks good, even if a touch expensive especially against the GT3 with 4 wheel steering and PDK S as standard. Hopefully the electric steering will have much more feel dialled in than the 991 Carreras and for 'manuel' diehards the inadequacies of this box will have been addressed..........

nice car, about £15k less than a 991 GT3 with same spec. but as no one can buy a GT3 now the GTS looks a nice buy, 430BHP 3.8 to 60mph and the wide body, all for circa £100k with options and duck tail. nice, esp with the GTS pack inside. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 8th October 13:34

Nice looking car better than that 50th anniversary model and cheaper too!£100k with right options !

Wonder if the 4S will hold it's value better than the 2S (pro-rata) Also has the GTS held it's value better than the 997S in the past?

Tony 1234 said: Wonder if the 4S will hold it's value better than the 2S (pro-rata) Also has the GTS held it's value better than the 997S in the past? yes by a big margin with the best cars still 60k £15k more than a normal C2s

mrdemon said: yes by a big margin with the best cars still 60k £15k more than a normal C2s how do you work that out a 2011 manual gts circa £60k and a likewise c2s circa £55k+ if you can find one! what i cant work out is some rave about the 981 gts when its just an ecu job and some plastic bits but at least a 911 gts has a complete top end rework plus a widebody! but the big question is has the manual been improved!idoubt it!

mrdemon said: nice car, about £15k less than a 991 GT3 with same spec. but as no one can buy a GT3 now the GTS looks a nice buy, 430BHP 3.8 to 60mph and the wide body, all for circa £100k with options and duck tail. nice, esp with the GTS pack inside. Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 8th October 13:34 As you are always so keen to point out, facts speak better than bullshi Including VAT, the GT3 list is £100540 compared to a GTS PDK 2wd list of £93915. The GT3 is clearly to cheap and the GTS is too expensive. So nowhere near £15k difference. £6625 actually.......

mrdemon said: 3.8 to 60mph LOL

jackal said: LOL Porsche changed the web site over night to 4 !!!! it was listed at 3.8 on launch day :-)

av185 said: As you are always so keen to point out, facts speak better than bullshi Including VAT, the GT3 list is £100540 compared to a GTS PDK 2wd list of £93915. The GT3 is clearly to cheap and the GTS is too expensive. So nowhere near £15k difference. £6625 actually....... with PCM and the options most pick I speced up the GT3 to about 117k and the GTS to about 103k, a lot of people have 991 GT3 speced at 130k some may have £100k cars but yes the GT3 looks too cheap and the GTS looks too expensive for what you get I agree if you look at both base prices but very few ever buys a base car.

mrdemon said: jackal said: LOL Porsche changed the web site over night to 4 !!!! it was listed at 3.8 on launch day :-) So its 3.8 on launch.....

mrdemon said: av185 said: As you are always so keen to point out, facts speak better than bullshi Including VAT, the GT3 list is £100540 compared to a GTS PDK 2wd list of £93915. The GT3 is clearly to cheap and the GTS is too expensive. So nowhere near £15k difference. £6625 actually....... with PCM and the options most pick I speced up the GT3 to about 117k and the GTS to about 103k, a lot of people have 991 GT3 speced at 130k some may have £100k cars but yes the GT3 looks too cheap and the GTS looks too expensive for what you get I agree if you look at both base prices but very few ever buys a base car. Eh? You say a lot of people have specced their GT3 at £130k?? Where are all these people? Theres no one I know on the forum at that level......Sidicks and a few others are at £123k ish which is the max I am aware of but most are c £114k including mine btw.

At sensible specs for both GTS and GT3 - for use on the road anyway - the new model looks to be 90% of the car for 90% of the money. Not that I have driven either - sadly. But I bet there isn't a GT3 owner who doesn't think the extra 10% investment is well worth it I know where I would rather have my money.

av185 said: Eh? You say a lot of people have specced their GT3 at £130k?? Where are all these people? Theres no one I know on the forum at that level......Sidicks and a few others are at £123k ish which is the max I am aware of but most are c £114k including mine btw. the Last new car sell at Porsche Leicester at retail was £127k, no margin, Speed yellow with PCCB and a few toys. but they sold a BASE spec white car for £121k so a high margin for a £100k car. I think £115/£117 k gets you the right sort of car/spec at list. and the right sort of GTS is about £100k. so 15k between the 2 for a spec you would want to own like I stated. ;-) the 127k yellow monster. Is that the highest spec UK car then you think ? Edited by mrdemon on Friday 10th October 11:04

mrdemon said: av185 said: Eh? You say a lot of people have specced their GT3 at £130k?? Where are all these people? Theres no one I know on the forum at that level......Sidicks and a few others are at £123k ish which is the max I am aware of but most are c £114k including mine btw. the Last one to sell at Porsche Leicester at retail was £127k, no margin, Speed yellow with PCCB and a few toys. but they sold a BASE spec white car for £121k so a high margin for a £100k car. I think £115/£117 k gets you the right sort of car/spec at list. and the right sort of GTS is about £100k. so 15k between the 2 for a spec you would want to own. You aren't comparing like with like....apples and pears.....don't confuse yourself with list price and second hand or registered GT3 values getting c £25k premiums! As you probably know an OPC cannot ask a premium for a brand new car, but can do if second hand or pre registered.....as was the latest GT3 to sell through OPC Leeds, red, high spec 14 63 reg 1k miles approx advertised at £148 k and sold in 4 days.

read my post :-) the yellow car was new list price at £127k it sold for £127k as new the white car was very basic 1 owner car say £105k or maybe less, it sold for £121k 2nd hand. The yellow car was Andy's order, and had to be resold at list price.

£127k...was kitchen sinking a GT3...but rather do like the racing yellow...oh yeah Anyway...now out of cold shower.. Have a Nov build slot in offing for 991 GTS...as I need something that puts a smile on during winter..(7.2 RS ..not really great in cold/wet)....why can't i get excited about it????!!! Was hoping for a bit more GT3 DNA..maybe RWS...perhaps PDK-S... feels like (yet) another spin on the 50th Anniversary or British only Exclusive Edition (Bramley has 1 of 5...must admit completely missed this limited edition...) hmmmm......once you've done a GT3...you can't go GTS?

By the GB ed Turbo S, would go great with a GT3 and good for winter ;-)

mrdemon said: By the GB ed Turbo S, would go great with a GT3 and good for winter ;-) my eyes..my eyes...pls.....stop it...pls

Be nicer without the 'halfords' go-faster stripe

BMCG said: mrdemon said: By the GB ed Turbo S, would go great with a GT3 and good for winter ;-) my eyes..my eyes...pls.....stop it...pls Don't get me started on the blimp mobile. Ahh yes the GTS. It is a step in the right direction. Disappointed that the central exhaust arrangement was a false positive. Also, is this car worth double the price of the Cayman GTS ? I can't see it myself, happy to be proven wrong. I am more curious now as to what the two 991 test car's which were shot now are. On face value it looks like a 991 Sports Classic and 991 Speedster rather than the Gen 2 991. Edited by Carl_Docklands on Friday 10th October 12:11

I think the GTS will be a fantastic all round car. I thought long and hard about a GT3 then put a deposit down on a 50th anniversary which I've had for a year now, and done about 5k miles. The reason I chose the 50th was that I use it more, my wife is really happy on a long journey therefore I get to drive it more as is quite civilised, but in sport+ manual mode it is a delight to drive fast, well balanced and supple but very quick indeed. I knew the GT3 would be better financially but am really happy with the choice I made as the car does everything so well. The GTS will be at least as good, more power, can get any colour, and also have a ducktail! If I was getting a new 991 it would be my choice no contest, but I quite like the 50th wheels, dont think they're an option on the GTS so will stick with it.

My spec 997 Gts was circa£80k new and the 991gts circa £100k this represents a 25% increase in new price in 3 years Whereas a 987cr was circa £60k and 981 cayman Gts is circa £65k about 10% increase! Why have new 911s got so expensive? Also the gt3 has always been good value ie 996c4s circa £73k and 996gt3 likewise

itsybitsy said: My spec 997 Gts was circa£80k new and the 991gts circa £100k this represents a 25% increase in new price in 3 years Whereas a 987cr was circa £60k and 981 cayman Gts is circa £65k about 10% increase! Why have new 911s got so expensive? Also the gt3 has always been good value ie 996c4s circa £73k and 996gt3 likewise Completely agree. The 911 has always been the cash cow for Porsche - it is the icon and status car - I bought into and enjoyed it up to 997 levels. But the 991 pricing strategy is a unashamed its attempt to absorb as much of the £80-£140k market as possible - with little real justification IMO. I think the 991 GT3 is at the right level c£100K and the Turbo @ £120K is probably about right because of the tech and performance brackets they cross. Everything this else has a hard time to convince me to place money there vs the 997 generation. I've moved on from my 997 GTS and awaiting arrival of my new 981 Cayman GTS which I’m very much looking forward to. I thought long and hard about the 991, test drives, the lot and even though I can afford a new 911 GTS or a GT3 - I just decided that for this round it really wasn’t worth it to me. But if you think about where the 911 is headed look at the challengers - Mercedes AMG GT, maybe McLaren P13 , Jaguar F-Type V8 and Aston Martin - all really GT cars than sportscar. Porsche should have a long think about where the 911 is going - its pricing and if they want to finally let one of its other products really flagship the sportscar space for them.

anonymous said: [redacted] 911 prices have generally increased slowly year by year but exploded with the advent of the 991! So are we back at pre 2000 levels where the British public pay more for their pork!the Gts in USA is 115000dollars circa £72k

With the 991 Porsche has moved it into the 100k bracket and the void has been filled by the Cayman. A bit like Landrover with the Range Rover and the Range Rover Sport.

TDT said: Completely agree. The 911 has always been the cash cow for Porsche - it is the icon and status car - I bought into and enjoyed it up to 997 levels. But the 991 pricing strategy is a unashamed its attempt to absorb as much of the £80-£140k market as possible - with little real justification IMO. I think the 991 GT3 is at the right level c£100K and the Turbo @ £120K is probably about right because of the tech and performance brackets they cross. Everything this else has a hard time to convince me to place money there vs the 997 generation. I've moved on from my 997 GTS and awaiting arrival of my new 981 Cayman GTS which I’m very much looking forward to. I thought long and hard about the 991, test drives, the lot and even though I can afford a new 911 GTS or a GT3 - I just decided that for this round it really wasn’t worth it to me. But if you think about where the 911 is headed look at the challengers - Mercedes AMG GT, maybe McLaren P13 , Jaguar F-Type V8 and Aston Martin - all really GT cars than sportscar. Porsche should have a long think about where the 911 is going - its pricing and if they want to finally let one of its other products really flagship the sportscar space for them. Will be interesting on your thoughts how the 981gts shapes up against the 997gts

anonymous said: [redacted] ahh no they are not... was surprised when a GT3 excluding VAT or Sales tax was pretty much the same price in both UK & US. (notwithstanding swings in Forex versus when cars were released...)

anonymous said: [redacted] That's a tricky one though (definition of expensive) moose as we have larger economies of scale at work here than back in the day. I would define expensive using a rule if thumb on Porsches margin and competitors rather than just currency inflation.

anonymous said: [redacted] Cmoose - Yes - I can appreciate your point, the reason and the supporting workings - and so yes maybe it was that the 997 was just comparatively cheap in the historical trend of generation-to-generation price increases - accepted. I’d still like to then suggest that the 991 represents a larger that normal jump between gens - and although alot of that is might be to compensate for the shortfall for the price increase for the 997 - I think that the game has really just moved on a bit now. This new generation stands in the face of some very stiff competition these days - and yes whilst still the consummate all-rounder it has never been pushed harder in the market place than it is today from external sources and internal. That all said - am I worried about the 911 or do i think that it will start to fail as a viable proposition - absolutely not - there will always be customers, always those that are willing to pay - The resale market is going to be great for these. To take your Porsche vs Ferrari - I guess my PoV is of Porsche being a sportscar maker vs Ferrari being a supercar maker. This is all just a question of perceived value. Porsches have alway been view as expensive yes - but good value versus everything above it. Just that now its priced closer to everything above it questions start to get asked - IMO

lets not have a debate about economies inflation etc we will be here allnight(somethings have got cheaper!) i was merely trying to point out 3 years ago a new Gts was c£80k and todays 991gts is a £100k.if you take the boxster spyder,gts/caymanR gts those prices have increased only slightly in 3 years and over the last 10 years those cars standard boxsters/caymans have increased gradually wether its a 986,987.1.2 or 981

just an after thought but have Porsche increased the mrp to allow for discounts on new products like other maufacturers!as a discount on a new porsche pre 2008 was unheard of whereas now its rude not to ask!likewise all new porsches were built to order whereas now dealers have a large number of new cars either preregd or in storage we will even see delivery miles 991gts at a discount at some stage!

With the 911 I suppose one of the problems is lack of wage inflation in Porsches target market and the other is their insistance on ever increasing volumes. The problem is that Porsche has ramped cost by increasing the base cost (that's fine) and the cost of the options list (not so good) and then leaving too much of them off the base car. Putting to one side my own personal views on the new car, the classifieds are awash with nearly new 991 turbos. If I was in the market, that does not inspire confidence in a new model. Porsche want to have their cake and eat it with the 911. I would say that the higher end 991 cars are expensive in relative terms because Porsche are not protecting their own market. For the 991 gts to be a good deal they needed to chuck in more of the options list into the base car there are just too many unticked boxes for a 100k car. You could then say it has parity with the older generation 911 cars who's options lists were short and sweet. I don't think the above applies to the boxster and cayman due to the relative performance per £, I think it's a steal for the money.

Carl_Docklands said: For the 991 gts to be a good deal they needed to chuck in more of the options list into the base car there are just too many unticked boxes for a 100k car. like a full leather or leather/alcantara interior

Not sure where some of these quoted prices are coming from.....in the UK the basic 997 GTS in Jan 2011 was £76758......the basic 991 GTS is now £91098, almost £9000 less than the £100000 some are quoting... Also the 997 GTS is seen by many as being the most complete 911 and far exceeding the value sum of its parts bin......and providing Porsche dial in enough feel to the inert steering of the Carrera and improve the s tty 'manuel' box, the 991 GTS will be a complete package and way above the Cayman GTS relative to the Cayman S......the 991 GTS will benefit substantially from the wider body as did the 997......

av185 said: Not sure where some of these quoted prices are coming from.....in the UK the basic 997 GTS in Jan 2011 was £76758......the basic 991 GTS is now £91098, almost £9000 less than the £100000 some are quoting... Also the 997 GTS is seen by many as being the most complete 911 and far exceeding the value sum of its parts bin......and providing Porsche dial in enough feel to the inert steering of the Carrera and improve the s tty 'manuel' box, the 991 GTS will be a complete package and way above the Cayman GTS relative to the Cayman S......the 991 GTS will benefit substantially from the wider body as did the 997...... Splitting hairs av, I assume the £100k is a rounded figure from the cheapest 991 gts to the most expensive variant which is £105k.

Carl_Docklands said: Splitting hairs av, I assume the £100k is a rounded figure from the cheapest 991 gts to the most expensive variant which is £105k. my £80k 997 and £100k 991 were based on similar specs i would have chosen!

Anyone know when the GTS reveal day is this month?

BMCG said: Have a Nov build slot in offing for 991 GTS...as I need something that puts a smile on during winter..(7.2 RS ..not really great in cold/wet)....why can't i get excited about it????!!! Because 'second place gets a free set of steak knives'.

Robbo66 said: Because 'second place gets a free set of steak knives'. I have got a 991gts coming in March and looking forward to it . Unless you are doing track days or have a real problem with owning a car that will lose money the GTS will be a great car to have . I wanted a GT3 because I liked idea of a car that might actually be worth more than I paid for it but in real life having driven GTS I think it will be more useable and won't have an over the top spoiler that will be embarrassing in Waitrose car park! Plus you can get a discount which was not the case with Gt3 . Perhaps we are just spoilt with 991 and all models are more than most people really need.

+ 1 You can't buy a GT3 for sensible money... The Gt3 is more compromised in terms everyday use - mine will be a DD. I like the fact that I can fit hobbits into the back seats in the GTS. No way hozé in the GT3! I'm not planning on tracking the GTS I'd like to use it in public and the GTS doesn't have a huge spoiler for people to attempt to yank off (I spelled that carefully!!) P

A GTS Club Coupe has just been launched exclusively for PCA members. http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/21/porsche-911-gts...

At Daytona 24h this weekend:

Good grief - is every export country going to get their own parts bin special edition? At least the yanks don't feel the need to shout "I've got a Porsche" down the sides