Have you seen these particles in your oil filter?

Originally posted to the IMS failure thread but decided to start a separate new thread as it doesn't appear to be IMS related based on the size and shape of the particles. Changed my oil in my 06CS with 60K recently during an install of the new Mantis extended sump, 996 OAS (sump), LN Spin-on, LN billet filter. Fun mod. Less fun was taking a look at the stock oil filter I took out. The oil and the oil pan looked excellent (I drive it like I own it - not stole it!). Unfortunately, I found the following flecks of very thin metalic material in the folds of the stock filter. No gobs, dust or tiny specks, just these. Each is very thin, magnetic metalic, and around .1-.2". My reading of LN Engineerings information is that any metal in the filter is an IMS failure. I am out of warrantee as of January. I have now had a second person comment that the thin, flat, metalic debris I removed from the filter and pictured here is not likely to be the IMS . Based on the shape of the bearing chase I initially doubted this myself. Haven't identified where it came from yet but it is probably not the IMS (circular chase and steel ball bearings in the IMS would likely throw gobs of metal from the chase or fine particles, not consistently flat pieces of the same thickness). So, may have dodged one bullet... now looking to see if the gun is still loaded... I am looking to see if anyone has seen this type of debris before and what the eventual issue was. I will be taking it for a diagnosis but wanted to collect some experience data from our sharp membership. If you have seen this before please share your experience. Very much appreciated!

Good luck on your research, I hope it turns out ok.

How often do you change your oil filter? my mechanic recommend me change it once a year b/c the oil filters are known to disintegrate over long periods of time.

I do not know what they are, but if they are metal I would not drive the car until I knew more. I would take to a mechanic in a flat bed, unless I was sure it wasn't bad.

Is the material ferrous? It looks alum. which given you were 'at' the engine can be normal. Anytime an engine is opened up this increases the chances the interior of the engine will shed some tiny bits of metal or sealant debris or other trash if you were not very careful (cleanliness is next to Godliness when it comes to working on engines). In the case of alum, the gear pump gear teeth will flatten these out to foil thickness and being thin they'll break into smaller pieces which can really look bad. If you are concerned, have a sample of the oil analyzed to see what it contains. In the meantime you just did an oil/filter service, so now you've driven the car some drop the filter and dump it and the filter oil out into a clean drain pan and see what you see. What you see, or do not see, determines what you do next . Sincerely, Rockster.

I found similar looking bits of metal in my filter. About the same size if not a little smaller, and has the same uni-directional striations. It is magnetic (ferrous) metal. As I posted elsewhere, I too am in the "test" phase and waiting to get a few more hundred miles on the oil/filter before doing another inspection. I was told that it is IMS and a serious issue. I was also told that it is normal engine wear and not to worry, but keep monitoring. Lets hope for both of our sakes it is nothing serious or costly to take care of.

Rockster: I thought it was aluminum at first as well since it was very shiny and has a noticable marks one it (similar to a CNC'd aluminum billet). Alas, it is magnetic. delman1012: Let me know what you find. I'll share the same here.

Sadly, it looks like broken up bearing race surface to me..............

So after about 1450 miles on new oil/filter and two track days (yellow) I took a look at the filter today. There was maybe 3 or 4 noticeable metal flakes (similar in size and shape to those in the picture above) and some tiny slivers. Compared to the last time when there was one noticeable flake every other fold of the filter, it seems that there is no serious issue with the engine. The amount of metal in the filter definitely has not increased. I will be sending an oil sample from the filter housing to Blackstone to see what they have to say. The car still sounds and runs great.

Thanks, delman1012. I have started a thread about the new engine I have purchase to use as a swap donor while I rebuild my original. Hopefully I will be able to identify the bearing clearly and resolve it while I upgrade some interior pieces. At least it is an excuse to pickup some new tools and experience. I want to keep this car for a long time otherwise it probably doesn't make much sense. I thought about cleaning it up a trading it in but there simply is no other car that feels like a Cayman and if I can fix the issues and get away from having to pay dealers to work on the car without taking care of issues they should have then I'll at least feel better about keeping the car.

Hi all - I have the same issue in my car with the exact same flakes with the tiny grooves. Thanks to Planet 9 for being here, by the way. Is there any update on this issue? My car is an 06 Cayman S with 15k miles on it. I'm the second owner and have put 12k of those 15k miles on in the past two years since I've owned the car. THe car has no over revs outside of range 1 (true - just had it checked last week!). It has been meticulously cared for by me and the previous owner (I met him after I bought the car from the dealer). Oil is changed much more frequently than suggested by the manufacturer. Anyway, my CPO warranty is up in less than 3 weeks and I'm wondering what to do here - time is certainly of the essence. ANy advice is appreciated.

It really is strange that all of a sudden, a handful of us have this issue. Since your CPO expires so soon, why not get the dealer involved ASAP. At least that way you have some record that you tried to take action before the warranty expires. Bring your old filter with the metal in it. Maybe they will tell you it is just normal wear and not to be concerned, and hopefully it is and nothing happens to the motor. But if something does happen later on, then you can tell them that you brought it to their attention early on to try to prevent any major issues, and maybe they will still cover you then. Good luck and keep us posted. I also have CPO so I am in a similar situation except mine expires closer to the end of the year.

Good luck eslittle. I think you are doing the right thing by getting them involved, especially with warranty left and your relationship with the dealer. I also think (and hope) that tracking the car should have no meaning to the situation. Maybe it is a different story for people running R-compound tires and aggressive suspension/alignment settings in higher run groups (not sure if that is you or not). But for the rest of us in lower run groups with stock cars on street tires , I see no reason why that should be considered beyond what the car is designed for and thus, should be covered under warranty.

Agree. Also, higher RPM's (with the engine properly warmed up) are protective of IMS bearing - much info on this out there. However, sometimes dealer/Porsche have been known to hide behind "track = warranty voided" clause... granted they were mostly due to over-rev's (stage 3 and above). FWIW, IMS failure in later 987/997's is pretty much unheard of... yes, it's happened but very rarely.

1) Get a bore scope done. The scope can easily see whether you have damaged cylinder walls. 2) Do not track the car further until you have a better idea of what is going on. 3) check the engine well for any leaking or seeping oil.

Did anyone find out where the metal flakes are coming from? Are you having any further problems with your cars? I just found similar ferrous metal flakes in my oil. Just wondered what you guys found?

Just to be clear, the flakes I found were not magnetic so I assume they were aluminium. I haven't done the engine swap and tear-down yet so I don't have any further information. Sorry! Still driving the car though not as my DD. Have a pile of other upgrades so am waiting until I can clear the decks for a few weeks.

Thanks N0tt0N for the update. My metal pieces are ferrous, magnetic, dull thin pieces slightly curved. I have spoken to 2 porsche experts, not sure where the metal is coming from. Car is not making any sounds or noises. I have cancelled all track dates. I am trying to decide next steps.

Just curious... any update on this?

Lithium , After extensive research, it is not clear without taking apart my engine as to the cause of the metal flakes. I have received several theories ( IMS bearing , connecting rod bearing, failing valves). I am preparing to have the engine rebuilt. I do not want to run the engine to failure. Ice

Any updates on the metal flakes? My '08 CS seems to have developed the same issue.

My car now has a few more track days and a little over 20k miles on it. Still runs great. Metal flakes are still there. I change the oil every other track day, and I am careful not to over-rev it (there's no trophy or prize money for DE's, so...DUH). I installed the magnetic drain plug awhile ago and it collects a few of those flakes, as does the filter. The dealer wasn't concerned by it even while it was under warranty, and the local indy shop said these engines were known for being a little "dirty" - whatever that means. I do wonder what it would cost to have someone tear into it and do some preventative maintenance, though. The oil tested out great the couple of times I've done it (Blackstone).

2006 Cayman S (38,000km) I Just changed my oil yesterday before storing it for the winter (haven't sent oil in for analysis yet) the filter looked great until i cut off the ends and opened the folds... NOT happy when I found similar flakes in the pleats. All I could think and say was **** multiple times. I checked the flakes and they are ferrous. I've googled this to death with no real answer? I am hoping you guys might have heard or found a posible origin of these flakes. Please forward!!! I have a list of things that I was looking forward to do over the winter (motor mount, water pump, T-stat, brake flush and new lines and some performance mods)but dropping the tranny wasn't one of them. If I do and check the IMS and it seems fine, i'll tear off the seal cap at least but I would like your thoughts on installing the DOF or anything else on the market that could help prolong IMS replacement. I am new to Porsche but not to cars,I am still trying to figure out navigating around this site. I'll have to get my son when he gets back from holidays in Halifax to help me lol. Your experience with these cars and this topic would be greatly appreciated. Chris

I have experienced flakes in a few of my oil changes but understand they are nothing the overly concerned about. This has happened once or twice over a three year period and I change my oil twice a year. The flakes are approx 2 mm squared and were found in the filter. I figure just make sure you change the oil often no more than 7k and it will be fine. OR you could search the net looking for a blog post by someone unqualified to give you something to worry about. :beer:

I also found these flakes in my oil filter pleats after the last change. Oil had about 3,700 miles on it over about eight months, no track days. The flakes are ferrous and measure up to 2mm X 4-5mm. Car is a 987, with 24,000 total miles. I am sending in the oil for analysis. Any data or experience in identifying the source/cause would be greatly appreciated. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Where are these metal flakes in the filter? Just changed my oil and inspected the filter...looked very clean...did I need to cut it open?

Yes, cut the end caps off the filter with a sharp blade and inspect the inner surface. If you also cut down the filter lengthwise you can lay the filter material out flat and look between the pleats. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As an update - recently changed my oil after about 4k miles. I still found some metal flakes but fewer than last oil change. It seems that this is somewhat typical of these cars as a quick search for metal flakes in oil brings up a number of hits on Porsche forums. Lot of people have theories on what the source is but I haven't seen anything conclusive. Be interesting to see someone that proactively had it torn down to find the source. I forget which forum it was but one of the guys on there claimed to work at a shop and mentioned that they see this on a lot of these cars and they don't tend to worry about it. As mentioned before - some people will tell you to stop driving and tow it to the shop and others will tell you to not worry about it.